Brave New World

The Shakespeare bits

it reminds us of the current world.

>>9625912
i think 1984 does a better job at that

>>9625922
Maybe for china or the u.k.

Hedonism is the scourge of the free world

>>9625922
both do

Orgy Porgy

>>9625883

The populace are slaves to the system, not able to question it because of the constant attention on trivial entertainment, drugs on demand, orgy-porgies, and feeling you have it better than the other classes.

So, just like now.

File: orwell-huxley-world.png (393KB, 1250x882px) Image search: [Google]

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This image sums up the Orwell-Huxley variants of tyranny quite nicely.

I think Orwell's interpretation of the tyrannical state is fairly obsolete. Nowadays, governments rule using pleasure rather than pain. Humans ultimately crave comfort and acquiescence to a large power that they don't understand. Throwing some bones to the populace makes them numb and feeble to the real world, and controls them greater than any 'big brother' ever could.

The Huxley model is certainly more applicable to modern Western life at least.

How many know or care about the true scale of the violence committed by our government to protect our Western bubble?

>>9626451
Yeah I haven't read BNW but looking at this comparison, I'd say it is more akin to the state of the US today

its a good representation of perma virgin r9k types
the feral kid, john or whatever his name was, lived with his mother his whole life, kept away from everyone else because he got picked on and shit. an outcast loser like all the basement dwellers here
then he goes to this new world (outside his mums house) and feels like more of an outcast loser, take his frustrations out on everyone like an autist.. then some chick who is keen on him, instead of fugging her, he goes full elliot rodgers /pol/virgin about muh ladies honor, you aint pure womyn, and beats her with a whip and shit

>>9626502
The whip was the best part tho, impudent strumpet!

>>9626502

Stop ruining all of my favourite books by putting them in the 4Chan universe. Damn autists

>>9625922
>>9625883

no. bnw is way more accurate. look at media and the way that people consume it. we live in a culture that prioritizes dumb entertainment as a form of pacifism and distraction to prevent any form of critical thought.

most young people today are idiots who dont care to think about important issues because they would rather enjoy the instant gratification of stupid television and the hedonism of the party lifestyle that's reinforced through mainstream media.

the people in charge of the world aren't ruling through the prohibition of knowledge or the enforcement of their power, they're ruling through the art of distraction, apathy and satiation.

>>9626502
lol

>>9626929
>>9625922
>>9625883
also, "amusing ourselves to death" by neil postman is a great book about this. here's a powerful quote from it.

>What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture.

>>9626929
>look at media and the way that people consume it. we live in a culture that prioritizes dumb entertainment as a form of pacifism and distraction to prevent any form of critical thought
We also live in a world of intense nationalism and passivity, where our strongest emotions are wasted on totems created for us to hate. Its not like they didn't have entertainment in the 1984 universe, it was just arraigned in a away that was useful to the state.

>>9627151
I hate this quote, it misses the point of Orwell so massively my jimmies get simmered every time someone posts it

>>9627151
>Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us
Doesn't the Party give the narrator everything he needs to rebel against the state? They tell him exactly how they work and he ends up being more loyal to Big Brother than ever.

>>9626451
>...Presidential State of the Union address attracted almost 43 million television viewers, while the Superbowl was watched by over 111 million people, it's largest audience in history.

The Superbowl also has a massive international audience.

>>9626451
This chart is far too short-sighted in an attempt to make it 'fit' with the 'modern' world in a way that pushes the organization's own political narrative. In Orwell's world the Party seeks to crush dissent to its rule by making it impossible to know otherwise, whereas in Huxley's people have the humanity physically removed out of them so as they feel content indulging in such mindless pleasures and not kill each other or feel any emotion that is not happiness. Having orthodoxy bullied into them or literally not knowing anything else. The terrifying thing is that there would exist an entity capable of instating either of these worlds; in fact there are already people actively trying to achieve one or both, and so many people happy to help.

>>9626929
People seem to forget about pornosec and prolefeed from 1984. Only Party members need practice doublethink; the proles or rednecks are considered less than human.

>>9627223
>Doesn't the Party give the narrator everything he needs to rebel against the state?
yeah but they only give him the means to rebel after they've already captured him and they know that he will be rehabilitated before having any chance to act upon the information he's been given. the average prole isn't given anything in this regard. the whole explanation that obrian gives winston at the end is nothing more than an evil villain monologue intended to say "i've got you now so it doesn't even matter what you know"

>>9627287
>Only Party members need practice doublethink
this isn't true. what about when the party blatantly changes history on a dime and everyone else just believes it as if it were always the truth?

>>9627201
>it misses the point of Orwell so massively
how so?

>>9627598
Do you remember the part where Winston tries questioning the old prole about pre-revolution life, and his answers were utter nonsense? If one of them lost their son in the war with Eastasia and you told them that the war was with Eurasia, they would be like 'oh' and go back to singing that stupid song. This isn't necessarily doublethink, this is just stupidity.

>>9627660
>This isn't necessarily doublethink
it is though because one day the party says eastasia is their enemy while eurasia is their ally and then the next day they say eurasia is their enemy while eastasia is their ally. the reason why it works is because the populace believes that both are both their allies and enemies simultaneously

>>9627668
The populace doesn't believe in or care about anything that doesn't affect their lives personally, and any member of the proletariat who may one day take issue with the ever-changing enemy gets shot. Come on man, this was covered in the text itself.

>>9627676
>The populace doesn't believe in or care about anything that doesn't affect their lives personally
if knowing about who they were currently fighting and who they were currently allied with was irrelevant information, then the party wouldn't even bother telling them. it's obviously something they want them to know and therefore something that they care about to an extent. remember how there was a public rally scheduled against the opposing power and then their enemies switched right before it but the rally still continued just against a different power but everyone was totally cool with it

>>9627698
You still seem to be forgetting that the proles are literally mindless masses who can't even understand the concept of a war let alone who their enemy is. Given their track record with the book and such, the Party might purposely put on such spectacles to flaunt their victims' inability to resist.

>>9627716
eh i'm still not totally convinced. i don't remember the proles being that completely braindead. it's been a while since i read the book though to be fair

>BNW fags still going about the accuracy thing
1984 is still better written.

>>9627598
>yeah but they only give him the means to rebel after they've already captured him
They let him take the notebook home at the very beginning and ignore his rebellious attitude he develops (like whispering down with Big Brother)

Is BNW worth reading, I bought it for fifty cent and I'm thinking of throwing it away.

>>9627809
bnw fag here. i agree that 1984 is better written. i just think bnw is more culturally relevant.

>>9627822
yeah, but they were watching him the whole time. it wasn't like they just gave him the means to rebel and then left him to his business. it was a test. they were still in control all along

>>9627824
I thought it was ok but wanted to read Shakespeare instead since he's name dropped all the time.

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>>9626502

>>9627824
Where do you buy books for 50 cent? Can I just walk into a place? How do I know they have relevant works available so I don't waste a trip that in my case is a half hour one way any way?

>>9625922
Depends on your point of view. It's really like a combination of both.

>>9625947
>Maybe for china or the u.k.

Neither of them are like 1984 in any way other than surveillance, but that is a null point as every nation on earth spies on their own people, the only difference is that 80% of all CCTV is privately owned in the UK.

>>9627809
Yeah. 1984 made me feel this unexplainable dread deep in my stomach, but BNW is far more realistic and accurate than 1984.

Overall, I prefer 1984.

>>9627256
Why can't these people understand that Christianity is 10 times more progressive than the religions that it ends up replacing? Would she rather Native Americans still perform human sacrifice? Would she rather Europeans justify a social caste system through their paganism?

>>9630031
Not him, but at the nearest city's library there's a store where every book in the science fiction section costs 25 cents.

>>9625883
For me the entertainment came from knowing the year it was published (1932) imagining the world as the author knew it, reading his version of the "future" then seeing all the ways in which we've already taken steps toward that since 1932.

As a story I didn't find it all that intersting.

>>9626451
The right side more describes Fahrenheit 451 than BNW.

>everyone always arguing about BNW and 1984 as if they're mutually exclusive

Both describe processes that already existed in the real world, and which the authors had experience with and dislikes. Science fiction does not predict the future, it describes the present. BNW is, quite openly, a skewering of American entertainment culture. 1984 is, quite openly, a skewering of Russian communist culture. There are no ifs and buts to be had about this.