Why are great writers predominantly left-wing?

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>>9610377
You have it backwards, champ

>>9610380
another profoundly intellectual capital-T Truth bomb from our friends at /pol/.
I for one can't get enough of these tasty redpills

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>>9610380
Wew lad

>>9610380
How can people consider Kipling a good poet, let alone a great one? I always see "If" posted here as if it were the greatest thing ever, but it isn't, by any stretch of the mind.

Those of you who like Kipling, could you tell me why? I'm genuinely interested, perhaps I've been approaching his work from an incorrect perspective.

>>9610380
>those fonts

Perfect

>>9610377
Because they have more emotion, and both art and left wing politics are products of emotion.

>>9610390

Why, isn't the leftwinger shitposter who created the thread made exactly of the same media feeded turd material of which pol people are made of?
Don't quarrel over different shades of brown, friend.

>>9610390
This. Let's just forget OP's shitpost and blame /pol/ for ruining such a great thread.

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>>9610469
>>9610482

"""""""""wings""""""""" aren't real and all good writers understand this

>>9610535
Is that Bobby Fischer on the right?

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>>9610377
Because they're fags

>>9610380
>kanye left wing
wew

People think all intelligent people being socialist speaks well of socialism. It doesn't, it speaks bad of intelligence.

>>9610409
It's because "If" is a meme poem pushed by the (((anglo)))

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>>9610613
100% deep senpai

>>9610377
Right-left is a meme.

Liberal/libertarian and conservative/authoritarian are still meme-worthy terms but at least somewhat close to the actual things. Liberal thought requires thinking for yourself while conservative thought generally gets passed down from parents, society and other authorities. Conservatives tend to support censorship too. (Actual censorship of art, not your whining about niggers)

Liberal writers from oppressive socialist countries (that are pretty similar to conservative countries beyond economics) tend to look beyond state propaganda, while conservatives would simply support it.

Other than that, liberals/libertarians tend to think about other people, while conservatives/authoritarians are all about me me me, when other people are only relevant if they do something against the order.

>>9610760
Ah, and before some Burger spergs out. You don't have either of these. You have neo-libs and neo-cons.

>>9610393
This is pretty hot. But what would Freud say about me?

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>>9610377
Pinochet did nothing wrong.

>>9610760
It was conservatives that banned DH Lawrence's stuff on moral grounds, even though politically he could be considered very much right wing.

Hemingway had some reactionary views
Eliot and Pound were reactionary
Johnson was a conservative
Yeats was somewhat reactionary
Shelley mourned the death of tradition, Lawrence was reactionary etc

Are there any good left wing writers who aren't boomers?

>>9610849
Most of the conservatives you named also had liberal views. Shelley as the most obvious example.

>>9610865
>Most of the conservatives you named also had liberal views
So does every conservative. What competent thinker can be perfectly described with the words "conservative" or "liberal?"

>>9610760

Literally all political terms and memes and totally useless, descriptively.

Any word that is about a belief system (socialism, capitalism, left wing, right wing, authoritarian, feminism etc) is useless. They have no real definition.

It doesn't matter if something is socialist, or capitalist. It matters what you want to do, how you want resources to be distributed and where you want to take money from. It's so tiring looking at political debates online; 95% of them are just saying "such and such is not truly left wing they are actually right of center". Who cares.

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>>9610802
*everything

>>9610377

Because these writers have no talent that is actually useful in an economy. So naturally they are going to want more money distributed to them. These writers view themselves as gifts for the masses and they think they should be rewarded for it.

>>9610898
you know you've done the RIGHT thing when commiecucks are still mad LOL

>>9610857
Almost every French writer would count as left in their time, then there is some Russian guy, what was his name ... Tolstoy? Maybe you heard of Gorky too.

>>9610883
Yeah, fair enough.

>>9610893
I wouldn't say useless, just most are very vague. Say "socialist" is a pretty solid term with a decent definition, for the basics at least, while "capitalist" by itself doesn't say enough to know where the person stands. Generally neither is enough to describe a person but it should be obvious unless you're having a conversation with 14 year olds. People misusing them isn't a problem with the labels.

>>9610802
His GDP was only good because he whored out to big companies.
He's hilary with a helicopter

>>9610925

Words that only describe beliefs, and not actions, are doomed to be perpetually misused.

>>9610390
You do realize that every single artist/intellectual from pre 20th century Europe would be deemed extremely right wing according to contemporary standards?

I do not understand all the /pol/ bashing while you are unable to refute *any* of their common beliefs (e.g. - third world immigration is bad).

>>9610898
> Friedman said “Chilean economy did very well, but more importantly, in the end the central government, the military junta, was replaced by a democratic society. So the really important thing about the Chilean business is that free markets did work their way in bringing about a free society.”
> Chile was, for most of the 1990s, the best-performing economy in Latin America
> Under the influence of the free market-oriented neoliberal "Chicago Boys", the military government implemented economic liberalization, including currency stabilization, removed tariff protections for local industry, banned trade unions and privatized social security and hundreds of state-owned enterprises. These policies produced what has been referred to as the "Miracle of Chile,"

>>9610898
This is absolute trash. The left can't meme.

>>9610380
Bob Dylan is on par with the 'canon' you fucking retard. If you can't acknowledge that you'll never make it.

http://bobdylan.com/songs/tombstone-blues/

And Sylvia Plath has as good of a handle on rhythm and rhyme as Eliot.

>>9611346
>And Sylvia Plath has as good of a handle on rhythm and rhyme as Eliot.
This fucking board..

>>9611359
she does you illiterate, Daddy's on par with Prufrock in that dept.

The closest he ever got back to it was the 2nd Quartet.

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>>9611377
>Daddy's on par with Prufrock in that dept.

>>9611380
it is man. if you want to complain about Plath, the only suitable platform is subject matter. Her craftsmanship and understanding of form is impeccable

those ARE some bad teeth btw

italo calvino, louis zukofsky, pablo neruda, julio cortázar, (for that matter, almost every latinamerican writer with the exception of the blind guy) louis aragon, andrei platonov, bataille are all lefties..

>>9610785
You have both the Elektra and Oedipus complex. Traps aren't gay after all, you just wanna fuck your parents.

>>9610463
That's pretty gay, man.

Because they are not driven by money. Capitalism is a disease. If you like capitalism you should consider suicide for the good of humanity.

Actually I would say the distribution is pretty even up until the 1960s, and not much worthwhile has been written since then anyway.

>>9611490
>if you like making something out of your life rather than being a leech and being dependent on something you have no power over you should consider suicide for the good of humanity.

>>9610377
Because right-wing people have a lower IQ and are more interested in simple pleasures like fucking and eating.

>>9610377
Most of my favourite writers are hardcore Catholics, which would probably make them right if anything. The left are probably more likely to be into new ideas and so would be the ones pushing in new directions but their isn't anything inherently better about that. Also Gene Wolfe is America's greatest living storyteller.

>>9611490

are not driven by money

lol

>>9611584
This

>>9610898

I'm a Chilean and this is all bullshit

>>9611766
>Also Gene Wolfe is America's greatest living storyteller.
on the day of the rope, you people will be the first

>>9610802
SERVE ME UP THAT NEOLIBERALISM WITH A SIDE OF HELICOPTER SO THE ALTRIGHT CAN WORSHIP ME

you know this idiot rolled with the Clintons, right? If you want a figure on the right in Latin America, we got you in Brazil dawg. Check out our junta period

the right tends to be anti-intellectual and anti intellectual endeavours such as writing literature.

trump, for example, appeals to the inadequacies felt by those of lower intellect by demeaning academics, experts etc......its a trend with all right wing, populist ideologies.

>>9610380
Gucci mane is like ten times a man than any of those virginal faggots on the left and isnt that what matters at the end of the day?

>>9612445
oga booga nigga muh dick

>>9610380
This is meant to be fucking dumb, right?

>>9611309
Fighting ardently against third world immigration is immoral and hypocritical as the west is very much responsible for the state of the third world which is the result of the extreme imperialism and colonialism that we took part in. Even the smart right-wing writers were aware of this, they just thought it was a good thing, rather than a bad thing. They were Social Darwinists.

>>9612508
>We WUZ Ozymandias and shieeet

>>9612586
The nations of Europe gave up on Imperialism without much of a fight long ago, it's not their fault that those countries imploded as soon as they left. Zimbabwe is a good example, and south africa is slowly sliding into hell too.

>>9612425
Brazil's military dictatorship was nationalistic and managed to get some really good economic growth, what are you talking about?

>>9610377
Most literature was, according to modern standards up until 20th Century, extreme right wing though.

>>9610377
>writers
>leftists

Pick one. Leftists are too busy at their communal book burnings to be writing.

>>9611335
yeah they provide discomforting facts compared to emotionally driven sophistry

LAAAAAME

>>9612586
Do you seriously think subsaharn Africa or meso/native America would be paradises today without European colonization?

>>9612694
That's beside the point. If you stick your arm into a beehive, you have no moral authority whine and pretend you're innocent when the bees swarm you.

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>>9612642
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*inhale*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHHAAHHA

>>9610377
They aren't.

>>9611309
I don't know about the guy you're responding to, but as for myself, I agree with /pol/ on basically two matters: I agree that third world immigration is bad, and I believe that some races are intellectually superior to others on average. But I disagree with almost every single other common /pol/ belief. I like Jews and, while they are obviously powerful way out of proportion to their numbers, I don't think they rule the world or are conspiring to destroy whites. I don't care about so-called "degeneracy". I don't give a crap about "saving the family", etc. I dislike authoritarianism. I don't think fascism would be a good political system. I don't think racial distinction should have any part to play in politics (that is, I think that politics should be race-blind and individuals should be treated according to their individual characteristics only, not the averages of their race). I don't hate women or think they should be disenfranchised. And so on.
Basically, to me /pol/ seems like a couple of good ideas, plus vast amounts of retarded and hateful Nazi bullshit.

>>9612586
>>9612701
>Immorality
>Moral authority
You seem to be thinking as if those who are fighting against third world immigration have the same moral beliefs as you.

Also,
>Reading writers who put politics before art
ISHYGDDT

ctrl + f > "Pasolini"

no results

kys plebeians

>>9610377
Both the left and right have their share of wonderful writers, poets, and philosophers. I wouldn't say that most were left-wing, but it's possible that both sides claim to have the most writers because of confirmation bias; you're more likely to hear of writers if you're led to them by people you support. An example would be how virtually no one knows about Zizek nor Evola, yet the far-left and far-right respectively cherish these two intellectuals.

There's also some other factors to consider. Around the 1960's is when academia was thoroughly conquered by the abomination of Neo-liberals with a tinge of Marxism. The force of this group is so powerful that Hermann Hess is made out to be a leftist hippie; despite being close friends with Miguel Serrano of all people. The problem is that when the intellectual sphere was thoroughly crushed, both by neo-liberal insistence on control of society institution, and the increased spread of capitalism making the proliferation of intellectuals economical unfeasible, the only way to get money or notoriety was by appealing to existing hegemons. The only way the right has been able to counteract this is through the use of figureheads to sell a book. These are the books you see shilled by O'reily, Beck, Lauren Southern, and those kinds of people. The problem is that those books, in order to be successful, must be simplistic in order to be understood by everyone. Those celebrities are known because their career is built on appealing to everyone, so it would be self-detrimental to make anything of intense academic worth.

The pre-modern era shows that all political affiliations could make good writers. I'm under the impression that right-wing writers are better, but that's obviously just a result of personal bias; I have no doubt that many a leftist feels the same way I do. It's unfortunate that the global intellectual sphere has been smothered to death by profit, demagoguery, nepotism, and outright repression. There's a beautiful world to be reconquered in the arts and academic sphere.

>>9612923
>There's a beautiful world to be reconquered in the arts and academic sphere.

Bumping for this

>>9610377
The openness personality trait correlates with left-leaning beliefs and creativity.

>>9612789
Your understanding of what you're attempting to address in this post is not very nuanced and full of assumptions and emotional roadblocks that are causing you to seemingly misinterpret what you obviously to some innate degree understand. Read the Culture of Critique -- this is not about people who hate jews, it's about how jews hate you.

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because the right are FUCKING TEDIOUS. look what the /pol/ tourists have done to /lit/! they do this to every cultural endeavour. /lit/ was shit to begin with but now its beyond redemption.

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>>9612436
>Implying that lefties aren't populist as well

>>9612967
I've known lots of Jews and none of them showed any sign of hating me. I also see that Jews have contributed a lot more to human civilization than fascists ever did.

>>9610613
Really makes u think

>>9613071
I can tell by the way you use the long-irrelevant term "fascist" that you're deeply brainwashed. As a European who is wired to view people on an individualized basis you assume everyone does the same, but they don't. Jews think tribally, not individualistically, which is why they are known as "the tribe" and why they employ a tribal strategy that wins against your individualistic one. Don't speak out against the jewish problem or condemn those who do until you're willing to educate yourself on the matter. You can start by reading the book I previously referred you to.

>>9613125
>the long-irrelevant term
I guarantee if I look on /pol/ I can find someone enthusiastically calling himself a fascist right now

>>9613134
That doesn't make fascism relevant, because it hasn't been relevant for many decades and was only ever a response to jewish boshevism, which killed tens of millions of people. You can ask yourself why you've been told all your life that the historically less murderous boogeyman of "fascism" is held up as the epitome of evil instead of the far more murderous ideology of jewish bolshevism/communism, or you can continue to regurgitate the talking points that have been embedded in you and pretend you're saying anything of substance.

>>9613125
I used the term "fascist" because originally this began as a discussion of /pol/, and /pol/ has quite a number of people on it who unironically support fascism and/or NatSoc.
>>9613156
Bolshevism being evil doesn't mean I should take seriously or support people who want fascism/NatSoc. As for the supposed Jewish nature of Bolshevism, obviously there's nothing inherently Jewish about the murderousness that communist regimes tend to exhibit, since there are many examples of murderous communist regimes in Asia.

>>9613190
You are uninformed on the topic you're attempting to speak about, and what you're saying has been framed for you. It's nothing new to me.

Now, you can inform yourself on the jewish problem or you can continue down the path you're already on. That's your choice, but I've provided you with step one if you choose the former. If you choose the latter and refuse to educate yourself on the jewish problem, just stay silent next time instead of voicing your uninformed opinion about it. Okay?

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>>9612642
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*inhale penis*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHHAAHHA

>>9610377
because art is mostly left

>>9613231
You're not being convincing. Your assumption that I'm ill-informed on the matter or that my ideas are shaped mainly by bias is without merit. The mere fact that books exist which portray Jews in a certain light does not mean that those books are accurate. I am far more open to the sort of theories that you espouse than the average person is. However, my own independent look into these questions has led me to form different conclusions from the ones that you have formed. You can continue to believe that everyone who doubts your perspective is brainwashed, but I'm afraid that's not actually the case.

>>9610377
I'm not so sure about that.

Great writers on the Right:
>Dostoevsky
>Tolstoy
>Pretty much anyone from the Western Canon

Great writers on the left:
>John Green
>Ta-Nehese Coates
>Rupi Kaur

>>9610939
This. I know it's hip to call him a fascist but he's pretty much the antithesis to fascism, he sold his nation to the highest bidder, he's reviled by the far left and right alike

>>9610915
The person you're replying to might indeed be a commie, but it would be absurd to believe that anyone who criticizes Pinochet must therefore be a commie. The man presided over a torturing, raping police state for fuck's sake.

>>9610377
Man, I don't know whether I'm left wing or right wing anymore. Is there any surefire way of telling?

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nightmare mode: name a leftist nobel prize winner who wasnt full of shit and everybody tries to forget

>>9613538
I am also a great writer so it's relevant dig

>>9613495
>Tolstoy having right-wing attitudes about anything except gender
>Any of those liberals you mention being left-wing
Read more

>>9613538
Do you suscribe to a 200 year old paradigm that essentialises the entire nuances of polity into French republican's and reactionaries? Then yes, something

>>9613538
Sane people are neither left-wing nor right-wing. The main difference between left and right is what the people get triggered by. The actual psychological mechanisms underlying the politics are more or less the same for both. Both are for the most part cults, the surface-level politics being simply a cover for deep-rooted psychological defense mechanisms.

>>9613484
Except it *is* the case. The jewish problem is not something that is up for debate, it's very clear and obvious. I was never trying to convince you of this, though, I simply provided you with a resource and asked that in the future you refrain from counter-signaling or speaking out against those who talk about the jewish problem until you've studied that resource. I also acknowledged that it was your choice to not read it because I'm well aware that you aren't going to since you are clearly comfortable with anecdotes obtained through your personal life. But I'm going to ask you again, nicely, and as a fellow gentile, to not voice your uninformed opinion on this subject until you've read that book. Thanks, enjoy the rest of your day.

>>9613546
>>Any of those liberals you mention being left-wing
left-wing does not mean "people I like"

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>>9610377
Because (((publishers))) are predominantly left-wing.

>>9613590
>The jewish problem is not something that is up for debate, it's very clear and obvious.
And I'm the brainwashed one?
>But I'm going to ask you again, nicely, and as a fellow gentile, to not voice your uninformed opinion on this subject until you've read that book.
Go fuck yourself.
>Thanks, enjoy the rest of your day.
More importantly, tell me this: given your understanding of the Jewish "problem", what exactly do you propose to DO about it?
I think that your answer to that question will make some things clear about the kind of person you are.

>>9613542
Sholokhov?

>>9613603
No but neither does it mean "people who support HRC". In fact, it markedly excludes those who don't want any kind of restructuring beyond the basic first world amenities like free healthcare, and simply moan about how oppressed middle class people are because of their identity crises

>>9613615
People like these are simply the result of the natural process of emasculation of the left. You can disagree with people on your side, you know.

>>9613607
The jewish problem goes back millennia, to Egyptian times. Read Egyptologist Jan Assmann's work on Normative Inversion in Moses the Egyptian. This is nothing new. And yes, you are brainwashed, and you are brainwashed because all 6 of your major media companies are owned by jews, every publishing company that prints the books on your shelf is owned by jews, and nearly every other institutional apparatus in your nation is also controlled by jews. Jews call people like you "shabbos goyim" because you mindlessly defend a people who have been kicked out of over 100 nations because of their behavior.

I reiterate, until you are willing to study the matter further, refrain from speaking as though you are educated on it because you simply and obviously are not. That's why your responses are purely emotional. Stop being a shabbos goy.

>>9613615
Face it, left wing doesn't mean supporting communism, it means supporting gender neutral bathrooms. Marxism is dead, Cultural Marxism is the new order of the day.

>>9611390
>with the exception of the blind guy
You say that as if Borges weren't the single most important Spanish-language author of the last 100 years and worth all those others combined.

>>9610380
>>9610377
This is just Boy vs Girl with different colors.

>>9613672
You haven't answered my question. I reiterate: Given your understanding of the Jewish "problem", what exactly do you propose to DO about it?

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>>9613697
Add to the list.

>>9613718
How did these improve things again?

>>9613735
Let's look at the example of Spain. Jews in control of Spain were responsible for letting their Arab cousins from north Africa onto the European continent and it took 700 years for the Spanish to remove them. When, in 1492, they finally expelled the Arabs as well as the jews who granted them entry, Spain became the premier global superpower. By the way, jews are also the leading advocates for mass (as well as Muslim) immigration into the west these days because this is what they do when they are allowed to rise to power: they actively try to destroy their host nation. They've been doing this for thousands of years. You would know this if you spent more time informing yourself on the matter as I've advised instead of spending your time counter-signaling people who are informed about it.

>>9613773
>When, in 1492, they finally expelled the Arabs as well as the jews who granted them entry, Spain became the premier global superpower.
A status that only lasted for 150 years or so, failed to lay the foundation for any sort of long-lasting cultural/economic success, and witnessed those Spaniards committing many utterly heinous acts in the New World.
How about the British Empire? They seem to have always been pretty friendly toward Jews, and they didn't do bad for themselves.

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>>9610409

He reminds me of a different, better, time.

>>9610380
Good post

>>9613885
One could say that jump-started the greatest era of European civilization, and the race to map and open up the world, as the other nations ramped up their own global expeditionary ventures to compete. Why it petered out with Spain was largely because the nation's best men bred out with low IQ indio women in the Americas.

England has kicked the jews out a couple times as well. They were let back in by Cromwell and have been ruling over Britain for a couple centuries now (where the Rothschild banking system got its start and continues to reign through the Bank of England). When people talk about "globalists" these days they are largely referring to jews, or the rootless jewish oligarchs in control of the global system, who want to further their control through international institutions (UN, EU, IMF, World Bank, etc.) which they use to diminish the power of the nation state. Because jews don't see themselves as members of nations or states; they are a nomadic desert tribe and always have been. This idea can be extended to an entity like the former British Empire since jews maintained large stakes in international colonial arms like the East India Company (and the Dutch version as well). They transferred that power on to the American empire, which is doing their bidding these days by doing things destroying Israel's neighbors and sanctioning any nation that refuses to comply with the economic rules set out by jewish-run central banks. And the English have since been pacified; London is majority non-white now, the most recent mayoral election was between a jew and a Muslim, and will probably be the capital of the European caliphate in 30 years or maybe less. They didn't destroy their own nation by themselves...

It's complex, but here's the thing. Despite being major players in colonial enterprises, including being the main operators (the "merchants") of the slave trade, jews in the current age try to pass both colonialism and slavery off on whites by collectively guilting us, and never acknowledge or take responsibility for their own role. Something like less than 3% of whites in the south owned slaves while half of the jews residing in the south owned them, and the jews have been the go-to slavers since Roman times.

What I'm saying is that there are thousands of examples of this kind of perverse behavior going back centuries. Give me a nation, I'll tell you the bad shit their jews did before getting run out. They are untrustworthy people, but at least before WW2 they were kept, generally, in line by the European aristocracy. But that check on their power no longer exists -- jews promote democracy to spread power among the uneducated proles who they can control through their monopolistic media presence -- so they are now acting brazen in their attempts to destroy European nations, all of which cohencidentally are currently undergoing the same 3rd world invasions, by flooding them with immigrants.

>>9613885
>>9614036
Jews don't think individualistically like Europeans do, they think and act only in terms of what furthers the power and interest of their own group -- they are "the tribe." That's why they move from empire to empire, snake their way to the top, and try to mongrelize or murder the people. It's why they're still around after all these years and other tribes are not. They're just bad people all around, and have earned their reputation as liars, deceivers, and mass murderers.

>>9610898
He did peacefully step down from power

>>9610898
im chilean and this is all true
its a shitty meme, but still

>poetry
>skill

>>9614039
>they think and act only in terms of what furthers the power and interest of their own group
Sort of like how you're doing now then?

>>9613495
>Tolstoy
Tolstoi was an anarchist. He was one of the precursors of anarchist pedagogy.

>>9613542
Hermann Hesse? Gabriel Garcia Marquez? From the top of my head.

>>9610898
Once again the leftist reveals his incapability to create anything remotely funny

>>9614114
Whites have to begin thinking in terms of what's best for our long term group interests, and stop thinking like atomized individuals, if we want to be in control of our own destiny.

>>9610377
There were no left wing writers before 1750 or so, with the exception of the writers of the New Testament.

>>9614153
So you want white people to become the new jews?

>>9614160
Although I suppose we can include the Puritans and other backwards protestant movements such as the Quakers and the Amish (Anabaptists,) for more or less the same reasons as the NT crowd.

>>9614161
I take it logic isn't your strong point. Looking out for your own groups' interests is not a quality unique to jews. It's just less unique among high-trust Europeans conditioned by harsh winters and a thousand or so years of Abrahamic universalism.

>>9610380
>guwop
>left wing

delet this

>>9614161
The Jews became what they are out of self-defense, strong social institutions that survived that destruction of the Jewish state, and Darwinian selection for trickery.

Considering mass immigration and the fact the the world can be circumnavigated within a day, white communities are now in the same position as Jewish ghettoes in the classical era and middle ages. Adapt or die.

most of the "left wing" artists in history would be considered far-right fascists by today's standards. They would never dream of having such loose immigration and racial standards as we do now. The idea that having in-group preference for your own people would be seen as bad in the modern day, would just blow their minds.

>>9614302
That's some class A delusion you got there.

>>9614302
I don't see why anti immigration = right wing

>>9614392
He's absolutely right, and you're delusional if you think otherwise.

>>9614392
That's kind of a weak way to say "ur wrong fuk u."

Maybe describe him as "babbling" about his "obsession"? That's a nifty rhetorical trick that will leave him dazzled and defeated.

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>>9613519
>mfw /pol/ adores the embodiment of the materialist politics antithetical to their fascism/traditionalism
>mfw /pol/ doesn't know that Evola would be given a free helicopter ride to Atlantis

>>9614410

It is in 2017.

>>9610377

Because most writers have never done any real work in their lives. They just sit on their ass and write. Their writing has no real value to society, it contributes nothing to the economy, so all they can do is call the current society corrupt and beg for more money.

All these writers see themselves as enlightened philosophers and the world NEEDS to appreciate their superior intellect. Their desire is that in a more left wing government they will be above the common rabble and be seen as a benevolent intellectual leader.

Most of them hate success, they hate beauty, they hate talent, they hate greatness, so they write about how bad society is. Their philosophy is about how there are no objective standards for beauty or achievement and that it's all a social construction or "spook".

>>9614194
You seem to be retarded. You didn't answer his profound ethical question of whether you want white people to become precisely what you despise. Instead, you deflected into an irrelevant and not even particularly well-justified statement about white vs jewish individualism.

>>9614552
>individualism
You're reducing this argument you two are having to individualism versus nationalism?

Individualism, of all things? Are you still mad your parents wouldn't let you paint your room black? Why beat that dead horse? It's such a juvenile... ideology, if it can even be called that. People do what they want, and avoid what they don't want. Individualism is only an issue for people who wish they were allowed to lock their bedroom.

"Individualism" as you understand it has nothing to do with enmity between ingroup and outgroup.

>>9614552
Uh, it's obviously you who is retarded since the statement he was referring was precisely about what you're incorrectly attempting to say it wasn't about. Do embarrass yourself often on here?

>>9614036
You sound like you got all your history knowledge from neo-Nazis.
>Why it petered out with Spain was largely because the nation's best men bred out with low IQ indio women in the Americas.
Doubtful given how few Spaniards moved to the Americas.
> They were let back in by Cromwell and have been ruling over Britain for a couple centuries now (where the Rothschild banking system got its start and continues to reign through the Bank of England).
If that's true, and if Jews are as wicked as you believe, then why is it that Britain experienced amazing prosperity for hundreds of years and only recently has developed these immigration problems that you blame on the Jews. What, did the Jews only decide to activate their secret plan of white genocide in Britain a few decades ago?
>Because jews don't see themselves as members of nations or states; they are a nomadic desert tribe and always have been.
No intelligent person sees himself primarily as a member of a nation or state.
> that refuses to comply with the economic rules set out by jewish-run central banks.
Give me a reason to believe that things would be better if Jews did not run the banks
>They didn't destroy their own nation by themselves...
They voted for politicians who enacted all these policies.
>including being the main operators (the "merchants") of the slave trade
Evidence?
>Something like less than 3% of whites in the south owned slaves while half of the jews residing in the south owned them, and the jews have been the go-to slavers since Roman times.
Evidence?
>They are untrustworthy people, but at least before WW2 they were kept, generally, in line by the European aristocracy.
Evidence?
>But that check on their power no longer exists -- jews promote democracy to spread power among the uneducated proles who they can control through their monopolistic media presence
Sounds like a good idea. Democracy is good. Controlling the opinions of the proles so that they do not vote for utterly idiotic policies serves as a good check on democracy's worse tendencies. What you're describing is the best of both worlds - both liberty and some form of intellectual aristocracy in place to counterbalance the masses.
>so they are now acting brazen in their attempts to destroy European nations, all of which cohencidentally are currently undergoing the same 3rd world invasions, by flooding them with immigrants.
That would be a nonsense plan. Jews do best in white-dominated nations. There, they blend in fairly well. If Europe ceased to be white, Jews would have to live in constant fear of being targets.

>>9614570
Show me where I tried to argue that a statement wasn't about what it was about.

>>9614563
>You're reducing this argument you two are having to individualism versus nationalism?
No. Re-read.
As for what you say about "paint your room black", etc... you sound like someone who has never had to deal with the absence of individualism, of civil liberties.

>>9614590
No re-read, tough luck.

>individualism, of civil liberties.
So what you're complaining about is that nationalist policies would discriminate against foreigners, and that I should pretend to be a foreigner and generally marinate in a sea of sympathetic tears, on account of how pretending to be someone else is a good way to decide how to live my life?

Pretending to be someone else is a good way to write sad, wise academic papers on how terrible certain people have it, all while ones position and livelihood remain safe and unassailable. I'll bear that in mind if I ever want to pretend to be a reliably paid academic who pretends to be a jew.

>>9614610
No, I'm fine with tough immigration policies that privilege citizens. However, if it turned out to be the case that that individualism and nationalism are fundamentally opposed - which I do not believe to actually be true - then I would have to side with individualism.

>>9614603
>What you don't get is that there is no conspiracy. No unified plan.
>There is only a deep hatred in the hearts of Jewry for the goy, a desire to trick and cheat and rob them whenever and however possible.
This is not borne out by either my personal experience with Jews or my study of history.

>>9614581
>neo-Nazis
This is a fake term, and if you start off using fake terms you'll get minimal effort out me.
>Doubtful given how few Spaniards moved to the Americas
Mexico is a mestizo nation; mestizo = "mixed".

So you start off by using a fake term, then follow it up with speculation that proves you aren't knowledgeable about the topics on which you would like to engage.

I'm sorry, but you are not worth my time. However, I'll clear one thing up.

>Jews do best in white-dominated nations. There, they blend in fairly well. If Europe ceased to be white, Jews would have to live in constant fear of being targets.

Jews engage in crypsis in the nations they infiltrate. A good example of this is the Donmeh in Turkey. As previously stated with the example of Spain, that jews would fear being targets of (we'll assume here) Arabs, flies in the face of the fact that jews are their genetic cousins, promote Arab immigration into the west, and have done so on previous occasions. Another reason why they're doing this is for Greater Israel's benefit. This is the Oded Yinon plan for those perhaps unfamiliar.

If you want to engage in serious discussion with me, don't start out being disingenuous or blatantly uninformed. Haven't had your coffee yet there in hasbara HQs?

>>9614588
How about you start over, since you botched the first attempt so badly.

>>9614631
Have you read the Culture of Critique? If your study of history hasn't led to realize that jews are a hated people who've been kicked out of their host nations hundreds of times, you aren't being honest with yourself about having studied it.

>>9613675
Neruda is much more important.

Don't confuse the retard writers channel stuffed into the public consciousness by the market power wielded by Jews for the great writers.

>>9614625

individualism vs nationalism is such a weird dichotomy. what if most individuals are nationalist to a degree?

>>9614657
I think whoever brought that dichotomy into the discussion misread something.

>>9614625
OK, I'm starting to understand your position.

I recommend that you study Jewish group tactics, or nationalism, I suppose you could call it.

What's necessary is sub-political nationalism, nationalism that can survive the end of legal authority. We need to Mormon up, in other words. Not Mormonism specifically, but they are the best example of whites converting themselves into a Jewlike sub-politically nationalist community. (Now there is a phrase to break jaws.) This is a kind of nationalism that I could see you taking issue with on... possibly individualist grounds, I honestly give individualism so little credit that I find it hard to imagine or describe.

Reading materials... I think Moses and Monotheism by Sigmund Freud is a good look at early Judaism. Even if you dismiss his Moses hypothesis, he gives a good overview of the early Hebrew mentality.

wikispooks.com/wiki/200_Years_Together
is a non-Jewish look at diaspora Jews.
Very important is their consistent disgust for agricultural work and manual labour, their view of themselves as temporary passers-by who should only trade and not put down any roots, much less make any ties with the natives.

The case of Flavius Josephus is also worth looking at for the strange contrast between the pre-diaspora Jews and the Romans, the latter of whom we understand much more instinctively.

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>>9614631
>This is not borne out by either my personal experience with Jews
Why would it be? You seem to think hatred involves breaking teeth. The essence of Jewish hatred is that it is intellectual and implosive. It only finds expression from behind a desk.

>or my study of history.
Again, why would it? What history have you studied, and who wrote it?
What part of the phrase "chosen people" suggests fondness or respect for foreigners?

>>9614666
Just to add to this and promote further study of jewish behavior and group tactics against others, the aforementioned book Moses the Egyptian by Jan Assmann details how the jews of ancient Egypt engaged in something called "normative inversion" wherein they would invert the norms of the society to fuck people up. This in a lot of ways mimics what they do currently via liberalism and was the genesis of monotheism. Everyone back then was polytheistic, but when the jews took over during the reign of Akhenaten they forced people to worship only one god.

200 Years Together is also essential and pro flacco explains how the jews were hated in Roman times for the same shenanigans we've seen over and over from before and since.

>>9612586
European imperialism improved the parts of the world it touched, third world migration makes things definitively shittier.

>>9614634

According to Wikipedia:
>It is estimated that during the colonial period (1492–1832), a total of 1.86 million Spaniards settled in the Americas
That would mean about 5500 people per year over that time span. The population of Spain at the time was probably 5-8 million. 5500 people per year out of a 5-8 million population doesn't seem likely to take away the nation's best minds. Also keep in mind that not all of the 5500 per year would have bred with natives. If you have better sources than Wikipedia, share them.
>This is a fake term, and if you start off using fake terms you'll get minimal effort out me.
What's fake about it? There are, right now, people who support national socialism as a political system. Given that they are not part of the first wave of national socialism in the 20s-40s, it's reasonable to call them neo-Nazis.
>Haven't had your coffee yet there in hasbara HQs?
This is such a typical argument from people of your type. "If you disagree with my theories about Jews, you must be a Jew or working for them." This argument is right up there with other favorites such as "If you disagree with me you must be a leftist". And just as dumb.

>>9614706
See >>9612701

>>9614664
I think so too.

>>9614702
>Very important is their consistent disgust for agricultural work and manual labour, their view of themselves as temporary passers-by who should only trade and not put down any roots, much less make any ties with the natives.
Disgust for agricultural work and manual labor is perfectly understandable. Hell, the ancient Greek aristocrats shared it. But I suspect that you'd probably consider it a good thing in their case.

>but when the jews took over during the reign of Akhenaten they forced people to worship only one god.
Yet another wild historical claim with no evidence.

>>9614754
>Yet another wild historical claim with no evidence.
Lol ... that's the story behind Genesis in the Bible. It's why they got driven out of Egypt. Moreover, it's been speculated that Akhenaten literally was Moses. Nice try, dude.

>>9614754
We are two separate posters. I'm not familiar with the Assman book. You're quoting my text and linking his post.

>Disgust for agricultural work and manual labor is perfectly understandable. Hell, the ancient Greek aristocrats shared it. But I suspect that you'd probably consider it a good thing in their case.
If that were the case, why did Hesiod's book Works and Days stay in circulation? Or pastoral works like those of Theocritus? Slaves weren't reading them.

What you don't seem to understand is what it means for an entire ethnic group to reject agriculture.

It requires exile to be even possible. It means that from the start, they accept living off the bread of others as their birthright. This from the highest financier down to the lowliest sidewalk hawker, strangers living in a foreign country and contemptuously refusing to integrate or degrade themselves by eating dirty food like the goys, working on the sabbath like the goys, working dirty jobs like the goys.

All of this could be possible without conflict if they lived in isolation and provided for themselves with their own agriculture - which the Tsarist state attempted to do by moving them to Crimea, giving them free land and farmhouses, and throwing money at them for thirty or forty years.

What happened was that the scheme failed, and they went back to their clean trades in towns and cities, their strange status not as a nation but as a kind of self-contained urban social class that moves freely from city to city, country to country, never putting condescending to put down roots, never having reason to treat fairly with the natives.

As for the other poster's Akhenaten claim, I think it doesn't do Woke studies any good to act as if the Jews never had any recognisable starting point for their mischief, and to imagine them popping into existence and subverting things immediately. They have a traceable historical evolution.

>>9614743
We're assumedly talking about the most intelligent, able-bodied men here. That's a small cohort to begin with, and it probably impacted Spain's intellectual and cultural output at home quite a bit, which is what you were interested in figuring out, right? Mestizos are also purported to be on average half European. I honestly have trouble believing that, but if it's true there was obviously a ton of mixing, to the point where now nearly everyone is mixed.
>What's fake about it?
First of all, the original "notsees" didn't even refer to themselves as notsees, so literally everything is fake about it, even without the"neo" prefix attached. I assume you don't know the first thing about jewish kabbalah if you've heard of it at all, but if you ever get around to it, you'll understand why I'm spelling "nazi" like it was intended to be interpreted.

Nationalism + socialism is also not a sociopolitical combination that should be limited in our collective understanding to Germany from 1933-45.

Listen, I'm not from pol and I don't play up the notsee thing because people have been too brainwashed by jews in their understanding of what happened during that time period to be able to reason with. Wanting European people to have their own nations like everyone else on the planet is allowed, and which was such a given before the 1965 jewish immigration act that it didn't even have to be explicitly talked about, is not an extreme position. I know you've been told over and over that it is, and that anyone who advocates for white interests is an evil notsee, but that's just not true. It's the natural thing in the world.

>>9614772
>They have a traceable historical evolution.
I agree and wasn't saying otherwise. Egypt and the reign of Akhenaten is just a really good early example of jewing, and the story is laid out pretty clearly by mainstream Egyptologists like Assmann. I happen to think it goes back further than we even know, at least to Sumer and the rise of Akkadian, but there's just not a lot of data.

>>9610760

>Liberal thought requires thinking for yourself

Liberal thought requires regurgitating CNN, NYTimes, John Oliver, and Stephen Colbert, and first laughing at anyone who disagrees and then getting extremely emotional and angry because your brain is so used to such partisan opinion that hearing another one physically hurts you.

>>9610925
>Almost every French writer would count as left in their time,
Celine, Drieu, Brasillach, de Chateaubriant, de Montherlant, Barjavel, Paul Morand, Jacques Chardonne, Michel Deon, Maurice Barres, Jean Giono, Paul Claudel, Leon Bloy, Villiers, Bernanos, Valery, Gobineau, ... the list goes on.

Don't fall for the pseudo-frog meme: all the finest French writers were squarely on the right.

>Leftists? Get a fucking CT scan mate.

OK, Celine was considered at one time a leftist, look how that worked out...

>>9614754
Greek aristocrats enjoyed some manual labor and had their slaves do taxes because they thought it was boring, petty, and weak. Get your facts straight.

>>9613613
Sholokhov the plagiarist?

>lol

>>9612789
http://www.europeancivilwar.com/paris-hosts-eiffel-tower-mural-explicitly-celebrating-the-genocide-of-white-people/
(((artist))) who painted this mural was funded by the Rothschilds

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14

certified dank

>>9610377
Because being a great writer requires some dose of intelligence whereas as evidenced by this thread, most right wingers are complete morons who fall for the weakest bait imaginable.

Saged and reported.

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>>9614907
what an illiterate, humourless knob.

>>9610769
you don't understand what neoliberal means and have outed yourself as an american

>>9614410
Because immigration is good for the economy (surplus labour in a capitalist economy but still). Honestly I find it a little baffling they fall on this crutch

>>9614746
That's nonsense, a man has no moral obligation to accept a bee sting.

>>9614928
If your nation wasn't responsible for colonising third world shitholes then yes, its to be expected otherwise, can't have your cake and eat it too. A true nationalist must stand against all forms of imperialism and embrace our differences

>>9611490
>written on my MacBook Pro 2017

>>9614950
Literally every nation at some point attempted colonialism, european imperialism was so successful because whitey build roads, hospitals and schools.

If anything it's the world that owes the west a debt of gratitude.

>>9614960
You have no standards if you believe it is okay to violate the rights of other nations you would cry murder yourself. Just best to stick to imperial universalism yourself and not label yourself nationalist

>>9612718
Sam Hyde

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>>9612586

If it's not in our interest to accept immigrants than we shouldn't accept them, I don't give a shit about your white guilt. As far as I'm concerned imperialism and colonialism didn't go nearly far enough.

>>9610377
>""The last man" interpretation of the bourgeois is reinforced by a certain ambiguity in the meaning of the word "bourgeois." Bourgeois is associated in the popular consciousness, especially in America, with Marx. But there is also the bourgeois as the enemy of the artists. The capitalist and the philistine bourgeois are supposed to be the same, but Marx presents only the economic side, assuming, without adequate warrant, that it can account for both the moral and esthetic deformities of the bourgeois described by the artists, and for the artists themselves. Doubt that this treatment of the bourgeois and the artist really works is one of the prime motives of those attracted to Nietzsche, whose central theme is the artist. As I have said many times and in many ways, most of the great European novelists and poets of the last two hundred years were men of the Right; and Nietzsche is in that respect merely their complement. For them the problem was in one way or another equality, which has no place for genius. Thus they are the exact opposite of Marx... When one reads the early Partisan Review, edited entirely by leftists, one sees its unlimited enthusiasm for Joyce and Proust, whom they were introducing to this country, apparently in the opinion that they represented the art of the socialist future, although these artists thought the future of art lay in the opposite direction."

>>9615065
Whoops; this is from Allan Bloom's "The Closing of the American Mind."

>>9615065

Non serviam

>>9615065
>>9615068
>muh bloom and muh marx and muh endless jewish propaganda, oh my...
*sigh*

>>9613449
>>9612718
Congrats two examples out of hundreds of thousands.

>>9610380
EXCELLENT post

>>9610760
> Liberal thought requires thinking for yourself
Do people actually believe this in 2017? In the 1800s maybe but not in current year

>>9610377
You have to be pretty stupid (or "passionate," as we refer to it nowadays) to go into writing desu

>>9611346
Please die.

>>9612586
>fighting against third world immigration is immoral

slave moralist detected

kys pleb

>>9613449
>be oscar wilde
>be an elitist aestheticist moralistically repented faggot
>be considered "left-wing" by retards on /lit/

such is life

>>9615031
BASED

>>9612586
you total tard: many right-wingers advised against colonial-imperial policies e.g. end of 19th century France: guess who was pushing these "civilizationist" agendas? yeah, that's right, j00s and freemason leftists. so go fuckin jump off the nearest bridge you dumb cunt.

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>left and right

>>9610377
""""""""""""Great"""""""""""" ((((((((((((writers))))))))))))))

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>>9615586
good book. more people should read it

>>9615685
Sounds interesting, thanks for the rec.

>>9613604
correct answer here

>>9614907
I didn't expect getting these many replies desu. I didn't think they would take the bait this hard.

>>9612701
Ignoring the poor metaphor, if I'd stuck my hand into a beehive I'd do anything in my power not to get stung. I wouldn't invite those fuckers into my home and say sorry for the trouble.

>>9612973
You should give up then and try other places instead, like reddit or facebook :^)

>>9610377
Because we all fantasize about the same ideals,
we just know that the leftist portion is unachievable in a less than perfect world despite how much we may promise ethically, how much we may struggle to get there. It's escapism, the end goals of leftism is an unattainable perfect dream.

>>9614759
That's speculation, not evidence.

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>>9613495
>>John Green
pic related its you

>>9617451
What's speculation? The part that literally says "it has been speculated"?

>>9610377

Is he grabbing his dick?