new Nick Land article

>>9605557
i actually dig that first paragraph, post the link shill

holy... I want more (seriously)

>>9605580
>>9605557
http://jacobitemag.com/2017/06/06/atomization/

>tfw too fucking brainlet to understand Nick Land threads

Where should I start?

The Greeks?

I think I like it when Land writes intelligibly. A little disappointed with Jacobite so far, though; most of the articles so far seem like baggy ruminations loosely wrapped around a single counter-intuitive point.

what timeline is anti-individualism edgy

>>9605699
Bataille and the CCRU

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>>9605557
>mfw Land makes a bunch of grandiose claims about the future

>>9605557

>What did Hegel mean by this?

dude is a bit of a sophist and plays fast and loose with language in a way that tells me he's on adderral

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>>9605823
dude just like extrapolate from current trends
what could go wrong?

>>9605557
Is there a glossary for all this jargon?

>>9605699
Start with William Gibson because aesthetics matter

>>9605557
What's the 'weird twitter' hashtag that links to all the dank nick land memes?

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>If so, the future will be hard. There can be no realistic doubt that it will be extremely divided. The dynamo driving things tends irresistibly in that direction. Try to split, and it whirls faster.

Alienation is the current running underneath everything and it seems to be getting worse. Am I a le wrong generation fag for thinking we're going to go the same path as japan, no communities, declining birth rate, living to work despite being surrounded by technological miracles

>>9607525
still better than what we have in europe right now where the only ones giving birth are 3rd world scum and muslim parasites invited by treacherous criminals called governments.

>>9605557
Why is Nick such a poor writer?

>>9608073
Thanks for the enlightened discourse
Now fuck off back to /pol/

>>9608080
oh sorry butthurt leftie
the truth is toxic for delusional faggots like you
that's what Land spills out in Outside in every day

>>9605557
Henry Adams already made this point a hundred years ago. Land is also a very bad writer. Clearly spent too much time in academia.

>>9608076
take some acid, it will make more sense

Proddies are trash.

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>>9605557
>blame protestants
Find someone to sweat who hasn't an alibi for a change.

>>9606346
Nick Land uses almost zero jargon, his prose is pretty simple if you have a grasp of the problems he presents, almost tautological. Try to read some Hegel or Kant.

>>9606346
go to the website "google.com"
In the white empty row, enter the text that you like to know more about.

Wouldn't the most logical move to resist atomization, at this point, be flat-out destruction? Just blow it all up and hope everything resets once the dust settles.

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this is brilliant

Actually kind of made me rethink the whole whiggism/anti-whiggism

there was some article on protestanism somewhere recently linking it to current crisis (dont really remember the premise). I think I probably got it from /lit/. Do anybody know what I am talking about by any chance?

>>9609257
was it Moldbug?

>>9605557
Land's diagnosis of individualism is correct, but he's missing what protestantism is rooted in - though it really accelerated the process.

>>9606477
+ Lovecraft

>>9609297
it's rooted in Gnosticism

>>9608204
What the fuck are you talking about? This is not about the "goddamn librul degenerates".

>it's a subtle shill thread for that garbage rag "jacobite"

>>9609400
Gnosticism is an accompanying pathology that crops up every once in a while, like hypothyroidism to type 1 diabetes. Progressivism is basically the "gnosticism" of liberal secular humanism.

>>9609179

Resisting atomization is spreading it, because any and all revolutionary/protestant movements (not only in the gnostic sense of protestantism), are mere increases in the spectrum of CHOICE which brings about atomization to begin with. This is at the root of every of Land's claims about the Capital deserving a capital 'C' and the title of blind idiot god: it assimilates whatever you try building "outside" of it into itself, i.e, every revolutionary movement to break apart from dogma since the protestant revolution, only served to create new markets of choice inside the same kind of movements they wished to repel (think also of woodstock and today's hipster market derived from it).

When he and Moldbug talk about Exit instead of Voice it does not quite mean going against this flow but rather accelerating towards it; atomization is no longer a matter of choice. In this sense, even attempts at destruction are also turned into markets and intensify atomization with more conflicts of ideology (the Wahabis in Saudi Arabia and the crooks in Washington have mastered that long ago).

The only kind of destruction that would not simply bring more atomization into the table would be one that we could never recover from.

>>9609297
no it isnt. he is using individualism, like most other things, equivocally.

>>9605823
>>9606291
>he doesn't know about hypserstition

>>9605848
>plays fast and loose with language in a way that tells me he's on adderral
We've got a detective in our midst!

What does Land even think of Catholicism, anyway? Since he seems to diagnose the start of all this with the Reformation.

>>9609431
We had Land threads before Jacobin was created.

>>9609766
He talks about Catholicism in the article posted.

>>9609772
I read it, but I still can't quite get at what he thinks. He seems to have some fondness for it, but also seems to think that to be Catholic in this day and age is somewhat futile.

>>9609783
Besides being an oppositional force to capital (his side) along with socialism and fascism, I don't really think he cares much about it as a religion.

>>9605557
I have rarely, in my experience, ever read so much sophistry bloating up such few, simple ideas. Is this the greatness of Nick Land? He seems like an utterly conventional critical theory type, except beloved of contrarians due to some unorthodox politics.
The few simple ideas he puts forward in this article are pretty interesting, though. As for atomization, what I find most interesting about it is whether disliking it is a sign of low intellect. Personally, I don't see much that is bad about it. The modern Western individual who is a capable adult with a source of income, etc. has a lifestyle that is superior to that of the most powerful humans alive on Earth several hundred years ago, and plenty of opportunity to engage, not only in hedonism, but also in worthy pursuits such as science and other forms of scholarship.
What's so bad about all this?

>>9609752
Did we pass right through megastition? Perhaps the rush to a greater prefix itself prefixes the distancing that is inherent in any thought of an other which is merely predicated on the fetish of an absurd distance between self and that unrealized form, thereby generating a frisson that is the remaining shadow binding physical and, for lack of a better word, ante-occipital. You may think such a formulation strange, but in an age that accepts mind as first-order entity, metonymy regarding the matter is the only authentic point of poetic realization.

>>9607525
I really think that if you fix the economy, the declining birth rates will right themselves. I think that the problem of the bad economy and the hard work that is required in many places to sustain a first world lifestyle is an economic/political/technologic problem, not some sign that Western-style civilization is doomed on a philosophical/spiritual level.

>>9608129
>Waaaaah.... everybody who criticizes me must be a leftist... waaaaah... people should love my one-sentence summaries of conspiracy theories given with no evidence or logic to back them up...

>>9609766
You give me the opportunity to post it again:
"There is only one sane and healthy relation to Christianity; perfect indifference. Mine is not of that kind. My detestation for the Christian faith exhaustst my being, and more. I long for its God to exist, in order to slake myself as violence upon him. If there are torments coming to me, I want them; all of them; God experimenting in cruelty upon me. I want no lethargy in Hell, rather vigour and imagination. Oh yes, it is all very wretched, and if I am grateful to Christianity it is for one thing alone; it has tought me how to HATE.
[..]
I have not been a theist for a single second of my life. In my first assemblies at primary school, when the theist idiocy was first wheeled out, I remember thinking: it is natural that adults should lie to you, but is it really necessary for them to insult the intelligence quite this much? As for the longing to believe, nothing could be more alien to me, because nothing is more obvious than the fact that humanity--far from being a creation-- is a disease. Why should the absence of a divinity analogical to mankind be more disturbing than the absence of a giant tortoise supporting the world on its back?

>>9609916

I don't think Land sees it in a bad light per se, he only "sees it being unstoppable". And also, whereas it is not necessarily bad for the individual, it represents the death of all existing institutions and every single established collective idea; one might even extrapolate, as he and other hyperstition folks do, that we might as well cease to be human after the process has taken itself to the limit.

How do I practice accelerationism in daily life?

>>9609954

Whoever is struggling at writing should read more Land, then they'll realize the kind of edgy over the top Linkin-Parkian stuff passes for philosophy, and won't be so hard on themselves.

>>9609967
Right. I understand that Land doesn't view it as necessarily a bad thing. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. However, many people do see it as a bad thing despite of the fact that the West (and thus, essentially, all humanity, since all civilizations now follow the West one way or another) still seems to be trending toward greater quality of life and political freedom.

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>>9609978

By just not stopping it, i.e, don't be a democrat (in the global, overarching sense of democracy, not the American party), don't attempt to undermine technology development in any way, etc. You can also mine cryptocurrency and sacrifice younglings to Moloch (by signing them up as guinea pigs in China), but that's optional.

>>9609987
>still seems to be trending toward greater quality of life and political freedom
A declining middle class in the West, the unshakeable popularity of authoritarians like Putin and the Chinese Communist Party and the breakdown of civilization in the Levant would like to interject for a moment.

>>9609934
And how do you "fix" the economy in an age of globalization? It is no secret that children are an increasingly costly investment, especially with college.

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>>9609954
Oh so he's just a Hitchens-tier retard. Well, now I know not to take him seriously, thanks for enlightening me.

>>9608204
That font is degenerate.

>>9610066
Catholics, everyone.

why is this chode a meme again?

he's like the obscuranical twoddle pedalled by "continental philosophers" but without the panache

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>>9610091

>he's like the obscuranical twoddle pedalled by "continental philosophers" but without the panache

>>9609916
>I have rarely, in my experience,
>As for atomization, what I find most interesting
>Personally, I don't see

Your post is full of atomization. You can imagine that in a previous culture, what YOU thought, would be much less relevant than what the community thought.

But to answer your post, Land doesn't see a problem with atomization, but many of his "allies" whether they are reactionary, conservative, socialist or otherwise DO have a problem with atomization. There is a lot of nostalgia for previous forms of community on the right. There is a lot wishful thinking about future utopias on the left.

Land's article is aiming at those who feel individualism is something to be destroyed, when that can only perpetuate schism, creating more atomization.

>>9608129
lol

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I have a question for you about atomization, /lit/

Do you think that human desires for family and community will eventually rebel against atomization? If atomization has advanced to the degree it has today because of our desire for individuality and choice, what happens when it starts to contradict our need for belonging?

>>9610363
>what happens when it starts to contradict our need for belonging?
Look at the suicide statistics. How can an individual organize against the organization which isolates him when his own will is very likely divided against itself? The situation is impossible; suicide the outcome.

>>9610363
>human desires for family and community.
is dying out. It starts in Japan and other big cities, and will grow. We live in the time of neets, nerds and wizards.

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>>9610525
Don't forget dog parents. Saw a bumper sticker the other day it said "I Love My Granddogs!"

>>9610525
Can it? It seems to be a biological impulse. NEETdom and anime clearly isn't working as a substitute in Japan, look at their suicide rates

What is bad about atomization?
I honestly really like the idea.

>>9610563
Land argues that it is good.

>>9610580
Who the fuck is Land?

>>9610557

That is the point. What humans remain are not meant to remain as humans per se. The conciliation of belonging and atomization is no conciliation at all. Ironically enough, when that level of disconnection kicks in we'll probably be more or less hardwired into a collective network of sorts, like Facebook but Overdrive. You can reach out to everyone else, but no two parts can ever be conceived as a single one for any purpose, ever again (e.g family).

>>9610563

It's not bad but it shouldn't mean any "good" either, it just is. We're seeing the elimination and degeneration of aggregated phenomena (many beings acting as if they were a single one, like a political party of many different folks acting as if they all thought the same things) into a state of segregation of beings. That doesn't mean we will be isolated in an absolute sense, mind you, only that our way of living will be less like a solid material with tight connections and more like a gas inside a bottle with occasional collisions and only very weak bonding forces among entities.

>>9610593
So we'll live like posh prisoners? Mind, you do know this is only applicable to certain demographics and only within the first world.

>>9605557
Nick, the 16th century Catholic Church called, it wants it rhetoric back.

>>9610525
That's wrong though. The "break-up of society" is a rhetoric of anxiety that has been espoused since there was a fucking oikos.

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Test

>>9607525
We may well be. The effects of the tech & internet culture in Japan & South Korea always struck me as somewhat telling.

>>9609487
Isn't he overcomplicating things here? Entropy increases as systems become more complex...?

>>9610614
Go away, we have a better meme now.

>>9610589
droolingpepe.jpg

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>>9610614
2nd test

>>9610599

Actually I'm Brazilian, I sure as hell know it doesn't apply to me ayyy lmao. I supposed it would be like posh imprisoning, if you could see everyone else at once from your cell.

Whenever I read this stuff I read it as a thread of "myth" loosely being tied to another thread, of "reality". The reality thread might further elongate into that particular myth and knit itself strongly, driving the myth forward to reality, but it may also never happen and the bond breaks apart at some point.

So the way I see it, it's something that might happen in an uncertain future (not necessarily long term even, it might happen faster than we think), but even in the case it never happens, it remains nevertheless an interesting self-analysis of our times and where history has taken us so far.

>>9610623
Oh yeah i guess your gay lover is actually a really famous intellexual

>>9610628
>if you could see everyone else at once from your cell.
This is literally the final form of a panopticon

>>9610632
It's in the OP retard

>>9610656
I'm retarded but you're the one who doesn't understand irony.

>>9609487
good fucking post my man this is what i come to /lit/ to read

>>9610643
>totalitarianism 2.0 will be open source

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>a self-propelling machine for incomprehensibly prolonged social disintegration

Question. Isn't Capital reassembling the threads at the same time that atomization takes them apart? Yes, liberalism continually increases the number of choices. Ok.

But as Capital continually augments itself isn't it going to streamline as well? Won't technological acceleration reterritorialize what consumption is continually deterritorializing?

>>9609487
Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Is Capital Real Hahahaha Nigga Just Walk Away From The Starbucks Like Nigga Close Your Bank Account Haha

>>9609941
faggot

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>brainlets still caring about politics and philosophy

>>9610667
jfc yeah you're the retard here

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>>9610918

>>9610944
nigger

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>>9610945

>>9610918
At this point I'm tired of the number crunching that pretends to be politics. My enemies, that slimy category, has made the state a shit dispenser. They cry now that Trump forces them to be on the receiving end. Eye for eye, faggots.

Those who "rule" are too busy spinning the cogs to truly get any of it. Can't wait for this whole thing to eat itself apart. No more holy cows - you ruined my cathedrals and culture, now your desires and goals have to go. If you had none of them, then we will take your comfort away. Psychoanalysis utilized by political and economic interests, political models made to suit economic interests... It all has to go. It was formed in the alien minds of foreign religious groups anyway. Not that they have escaped, nay, they abort most of their would-be offspring - perhaps mere envy towards the 'free and liberated' victims of their brainwashing.

Once you reach rock bottom, you can always dig deeper. Eventually you will find more cornerstones to remove so that others would fall.

>>9610977
You ruined your cathedrals because you don't tithe and post on a mongolian picture sharing phoneline instead of going to the symphony.

>>9611004
Could it be possible! This retarded faggot on 4chan has not heard that God is dead!

>>9611185
Punk's not dead

>>9611199
"... it's surely alive!"

>>9609954
I need more edge

>>9609941
if the state of western europe is not evidence enough you are an even dumber cunt than thought.

>>9610066
more butthurt cuckstians who can't face reality.

>>9612104
Suit yourself. Nick Land is always edgy:

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/198384.Nick_Land

>>9613317
*cringy

>>9612168
From what I can tell, Western Europe is experiencing the greatest period of peace and prosperity in its history. Yes there are terrorist attacks and so on, but many fewer people get killed by them than die in accidents.

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let u
s conne
ct (not connec
t!) the
the
threads o
f capital
& desire

>>9605672

>>9605557
really enjoy these land threads, lad. keep it up.

>>9607525
No, Japan isn't importing boatloads of low IQ high impulsivity savages.

Our future will be like theirs, but with added brown people, constant violence and weekly terrorist attacks.

The future of the west is like Israel.

>>9610977
I'd much rather have detached capitalist profit-seeking be the dominant paradigm than some demented, twisted attempt to create a national ethos or base the economy on populist principles, an attempt that would almost inevitably turn whatever society attempted it into a fascist/communist shithole.

>>9613317
>Ever since it became theoretically evident that our precious personal identities were just brand-tags for trading crumbs of labour-power on the libidino-economic junk circuit, the vestiges of authorial theatricality have been wearing thinner.
>Far from being the acme of religion — let alone its telic blossoming — God is the principle of its suppression. The unity of theos is the tombstone of sacred zero, the crumbling granitic foundation of secular destitution.
Shit writer, too. This guy loves Bataille? But Bataille wrote clearly and penetratingly.

>>9613437
Although I do like this one: "Matter signals to its lost voyagers, telling them that their quest is vain, and that their homeland already lies in ashes behind them." I'd have to read it in context to see what I think of it, but it has a certain haunting quality.

>>9610758
Yes you might be right. But 'reterritorialize into what?' is the question you should be asking/thinking about...
Capital only begets more capital. Intelligence begets more intelligence. Land sees it all as a self-propelling machine that strips humans of all their agency and 'humanness', constantly accelerating and intensifying.

>>9610758
There's also the question of why anyone thinks that deterritorialization is a new development. Much of human history is a chronicle of people being deterritorialized by other people's violent force. It seems that the only thing new in the saga of deterritorialization is that in the Western world, it now proceeds mainly by force of subtler levers than brute violence.

>>9613464
No doubt, and good posts. I'm with you on what you've said. It's just that I guess I'm trying to understand where NL is coming from, since technological progress to me suggests streamlining and so something like a necessary brake on the atomization he talks about - for those who are, at least, inclined to attempt to keep up with the increasingly far-from-view Joneses (if they actually exist anymore, and so on).

Deterritorialization definitely isn't anything new, it's why Land is always connecting it to Protestantism. I guess in a way I just can't help but feel that eventually we are going to get caught up trapped even more so in the rules of our own game and that's what's going to bend things back towards uniformity and atomistic choice be damned.

This is a very ten-cent opinion tho and I'll admit that.

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>>9613447
>>9613464

I'm re-reading The Civilized Capitalist Machine now b/c of this thread. Dope af.

>>9613476
Personally, I've never understood why others feel that they suffer from atomization. I've never viewed choice as anything other than a good thing, or suffered from any sort of cyberpunk anomie. I'm for the most part optimistic about human civilization and feel that on the whole, it's trending in the right direction, although of course there's always the possibility of apocalyptic nuclear war/environmental collapse/etc to watch out for. I mean, I understand that others feel crushed in some way by modernity, I just don't understand the feeling.

>>9605557
All I'm reading is conflation. Argument by conflation. What an idiot.

Seems like Land is doing his best to prove Cichlimbar right. The public ban makes a whole lot of sense now.

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WE NEED TO DESTROY TECHNOLOGY

I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE LADS

>>9613544
I guess maybe Nick Land really did go nuts from amphetamine abuse. His writing verges on schizophrenic rambling. It's like the product of an algorithmic critical theory essay generator.

>>9613573
i've talked with him and i can assure you he is turing complete

>>9610124
>when that can only perpetuate schism, creating more atomization.
Complete nonsense. A sleight-of-hand. Land is making abstract arguments about made-up concepts. He doesn't understand "individualism" as it exist in its natural state. You want to destroy individualism? Simply extirpate it from the gene pool. He's a typical humanities major cretin piggy-backing on the sciences to peddle nonsense.

>>9610767
kek

>>9613577
Well, so is my computer, but I think I know what you mean. As for Land, what's he like?
And what's his best/most important writing?

>>9605557
Looks like an autist. Eyes too small.

>>9610525
>is dying out.
Wrong. Low fertility is not evenly distributed.

>>9613392
>based on the GDP and death statistics, everything is going great!
shut the fuck up neoliberal retard. no one gives a fuck about prosperity if all the generated wealth is funneled back into corporations and the ultrarich. no one cares about low mortality rates when all we have to look forward to is the sweet release of death

>>9613544
/thread
whole essay is an overlong post hoc ergo propter hoc.
the guy is rambling about fuck all but /lit/ buys it because words.

>>9613597
>if all the generated wealth is funneled back into corporations and the ultrarich.
Is it, though? Seems to me that even poor Westerners have a quality of life that would have sounded like a fantasy to people of the past.
>no one cares about low mortality rates when all we have to look forward to is the sweet release of death
Why do you assume that everyone is caught in some nihilist state of mind? Maybe it's just you and people like you.

>>9613618
Not just words. Vaguely edgy words!

So far, my (to be fair, limited) encounters with neoreaction have led me to think that this:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement
is fairly accurate.
There is something about the writing of all the big neoreaction figures that reminds me of stuff like TimeCube.

> Individuation, considered impersonally, likes it when you run.

i love this lad

>>9613622
i dont personally want to die, but you dont notice the bevvy of "wanting to die" memes even on the most normie places on the internet like reddit and facebook? in saying that the western world is going great, you are speaking of a generality, and i am responding with a generality.

furthermore, why are the opinions of people who have been dead for centuries of any stock? i dont give a fuck that i have a smartphone when i still have to work two jobs to maintain a quality of life that is mostly uncomfortable. friends of mine have health issues they cant pay for. most people i know have mental health problems or are on some form of medication. suicide rates are rising. you can look to material statistics to find """progress""" but in terms of people actually finding meaning in their lives and wanting to live, statistics that reflect this have been plunging for decades.

its strange, i'm one of the happiest people i know, complete amor fati. i hate society enough that i dont mind that its collapsing. but im a weird autist obsessed with death + violence, and it's plain to see the normies around me are miserable because of it

>>9613651
>but you dont notice the bevvy of "wanting to die" memes even on the most normie places on the internet like reddit and facebook?
No, only on 4chan, and 4chan is not a representative sample of society.
>i dont give a fuck that i have a smartphone when i still have to work two jobs to maintain a quality of life that is mostly uncomfortable. friends of mine have health issues they cant pay for. most people i know have mental health problems or are on some form of medication.
Sure, but the question is... has it ever been easier, at any point in the past, to maintain a similar quality of life? Of course, the answer depends to some extent on what you value. For example, I value the ability to acquire knowledge extremely highly. So I would not want to, say, live in the 50s for the sake of it being easier to get a factory job and a housewife - since those are not things that are important to me anyway, and I much prefer to have access to the absolute bleeding edge of scientific discovery, etc.
>its strange, i'm one of the happiest people i know, complete amor fati.
That's good. I'm unironically happy to hear that.
>i hate society enough that i dont mind that its collapsing
But is it really collapsing? It's easy to become convinced that it is - indeed, there's practically an entire genre of "doomer" blogs. But society seems to keep marching on, keep not collapsing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying collapse is impossible. I can imagine some horrible nuclear war, or escaped bioweapon, or environmental collapse fucking us all into oblivion. But, the possibility of catastrophic events aside, I'm simply not convinced that things are really headed in the wrong direction as a whole.

I'm continuing to read:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement

>The movement has a proud history of great achievements, such as lengthy blog posts, even longer blog posts, and, occasionally, tweets. (More Right used to have an ongoing series on Neoreactionary Accomplishments; parts one to six listed blogging, parts seven to ten listed blogging about hypothetical governance structures: "intellectual accomplishments are real even though stupid people don’t understand them.") They also argue amongst themselves on Tumblr. There is the occasional schism, purge, warning of entryists and claim of true neoreaction; thus, neoreaction successfully duplicates student communism, though without people even getting laid along the way.

Kek

>>9613680
"collapse" is of course a loaded word; i dont mean to imply that apocalypse is around the corner. but the shock i'm waiting for is automated cars becoming cheap and reliable enough to replace human drivers. trucking is the top job in about 35 states and supports a massive hospitality infrastructure in towns scattered about bumfuck nowhere. furthermore, a staggering amount of people rely on uber and ridesharing for supplemental income. as i see it the US economy is held together by sticks and glue, and when they finally figure out how to eliminate a large portion of unskilled employment at once, the economic effects will be catastrophic.

and sure, "quality of life" is subject to your preferences, but capital is eating away at our ability to obtain essential resources. you might not go hungry or lose heat in the winter any time soon, but keep in mind that your comfort is an impediment to economic efficiency and under the current neoliberal corporate structure, there are people literally plotting to take away essential resources from you. you might prefer the technology we have now, but there's a very real possibility that this wont matter if the economy is successful in turning you into an eternal beast of burden fed only enough scraps to keep you alive

>>9613722
That website is the most fedora thing on the Internet.

Still trying to see what Land says that hasn't been better said by others.

> implying he didn't make this thread

>>9613680
i'd rather prefer living in the past where great discoveries were more paradigm changing and their meanings were able to be more quickly grasped as a whole. knowledge is so specialized nowadays that a dilettante can barely scratch the surface or would be in a constant state of "longing" that never gets consummated because there's only so many books you can read in your lifetime. attempts at distilling the technocratic worldview to the general public only scratches the surface and functions more as a tool for garnering public support to justify government funding. below that is the realization that there is no coherent worldview, or that the worldview most suited to survive in the future excludes us for a certain definition of "us". the future is high iq eunuchs coalesced around a select few city states who eliminate from themselves the desire to reproduce because it is an opportunity cost that hinders their research. collaboration will be mediated through efficient algorithms that mitigate the worst excesses of underdeveloped social modules while "casual" conversations on deeper topics will be all but impossible because their chosen sub-sub-subfields of expertise are mutually unintelligible. the vestigial remnants of the mildly nepotistic mentor-student relationship in contemporary academia will seem nostalgic in comparison.

it's not that the world will collapse, it's that the way of life that i think is a "good" life is collapsing.

>>9605557
His views on millennial protestantism as the root of the runaway mind virus of secular humanism doesn't seem that different from what Moldbug wrote about. So why does /lit/ love Land and hate Moldbug?

>>9613779
/lit/ hates both and sees both as period pieces with no real value or intellectual longevity

in short, they're memes

Yeah, the response is part of the system. The only solution, as I can see it, is to respond and solve in waves and levels of activity so much that you...break out of the system, if you will, into your own realm, and/or into the anarchist realm.

>>9613779
Since when does /lit/ hate Moldbug?

>>9609487

>Resisting atomization is spreading it, because any and all revolutionary/protestant movements (not only in the gnostic sense of protestantism), are mere increases in the spectrum of CHOICE which brings about atomization to begin with.

This is the stupidest thread I've seen on /lit/.

>>9613814
>it is impossible to stop violence if you fight it because you will increase the violence and if you kill your enemies they win

>>9613798

Which can be part of genuine, non-alienated community. Alienation, by the way, is a more enlightened, all-encompassing conceptualization that Marx came up with that obviously invalidates this idiot you're all discussing.

>>9613814
>2017
>worrying about choice but not realizing you are already a hostage of the lemurian time war

http://readingroom.unthinkable.site/tag/hyperstition/

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>>9613563
We wouldn't listen.

>>9613641
This guy actually talks about 4chan in the article. Probing the more obscure corners of the internet can yield a good bounty sometimes:
https://voegelinview.com/the-rise-of-the-reactionary/

>>9613757
It's pretty fedora and I certainly wouldn't believe them blindly, but it seems to me that they've nailed the essence of neoreaction.

>>9613821

>it is impossible to stop violence if you fight it because you will increase the violence and if you kill your enemies they win

Fuck, I'll give this idiocy the benefit of the doubt one more time. Violence isn't a necessary part of the waves of reaction/solution to "atomization", but if it was in some strategic praxis, then it could still, and has ourstorically, contributed to community and belonging, through production and creation and so forth.

Explain to me how the use of violence leads to and contributes to "atomization", please I'm curious.

>>9613757
Cont... although, I should probably ask what you mean exactly by "fedora". What I'm imagining may not be what you mean.

>>9613823
You're seeking something that never exists. Human beings never relate to facts, they only relate to facts inside contexts, inside narratives - a necessary filter, as otherwise the world would be an incomprehending continuum of sensation and information. Non-alienated beings belong to an imaginary golden age that did not, cannot, exist.

>>9613838
Jesus, where the hell did you come from? Lurk the fuck more.

>>9613837
perhaps it wasn't clear but i was making an analogy from "resisting atomization enables atomization" to "resisting violence enables violence" which may betray the (maybe) equivocal way "atomization" or "violence" is used.

>>9605557
Even though Nick Land is a meme these threads are always higher quality than most of the other shit which populates this board.

>>9606346
I am a non English speaking brainlet, and I understood it completelly.

>>9613846
>Jesus, where the hell did you come from? Lurk the fuck more.
I'm here to engage in interesting discussion, not to participate in your treehouse rituals.

>>9613853

I'll take that as a resignation.

>>9613846

You're basically saying that when one is exposed to alienation/atomization, that one cannot cure themselves of it. This is patently, untrue, surrounding your environment and spacing yourself through waves of solution/activity can definitely cure you of external and internal alienation. This has been proven ousrstorically as well, look at the communes and collectives during the spanish civil war. Lrntoanarchism.

MOE

>>9613886
not quite. "atomization" and "violence" are different because in meting out violence to violence, "violence" is not conserved. one party emerges as the victor. "atomization" on the other hand is conserved and operates entropically. don't like the preexisting clubs? start your own club! and so on, n + 1. i don't know why you're conflating/juxtaposing "alienation" next to "atomization". it's important that land makes a distinction between "individualization" and "atomization". you're trying to insert a psychological/sociological dimension into this where it is unwarranted. keep it simple.

"standard" solutions are conceptually inadequate. the question is how far the analogy can hold. what does it mean to proverbially "split" the atom etc.

>>9606346
brainlets not even once

>>9613886
The whole anarchist scheme that was collapsing and coming apart even before Franco crushed it? It's not a very good example of anti-alienation.

>>9613886
communes are groups of 'like minded individuals' opting out of mainstream society in order to create a little bubble to pursue their personal idea of how to live.

it is in itself atomisation.

Shitty writing. Fallacious argumentation
Why am I supposed to like this guy again?

>>9613886
How is it proven if all the solutions consistently failed?

If curing alienation that way was possible the vast majority of people would choose to live in thriving communes.

>>9613860
He's a meme because he's interesting to discuss.

>>9613641
>>9613722
Why does every argument against NRx boil down to:
1. I don't understand the writing
2. They communicate their ideas using nontraditional or newer mediums
3. They're racist

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>>9614086
1. People don't want to read the requisite theory. It's easier to simply shitpost.
2. New things are scary.
3. In Land's case he is, in a qualified sense. https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/843387931188318208

>>9612175
>implying I need your "reality" when I have the Truth

>>9614086
>Why does every argument against NRx boil down to
Except it doesn't. Land makes a lot of ahistorical arguments. He's been called out on it numerous times, but he has so far never tried to correct his deficiencies and keeps churning out counterfactual nonsense. He's also making a lot of half-baked arguments by analogy and idiotic unsubstantiated conflations, this essay being a perfect example: his whole argument is a word game that is centred on conflating several terms and events and calling the resulting hodgepodge "atomisation". And /lit/ is too enamoured with language and language games to spot this for what it is.

Land is full of hot air and you're all a bunch of dupes.

>>9614113
>3. In Land's case he is, in a qualified sense. https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/843387931188318208
Someone being racist isn't a valid argument against their positions.

>>9614167
In essence, this is the most common failure mode of the left brain exemplified: being too caught up in simulating the datum to realise the fictitiousness of it all.

>>9614195
Being an anti-racist is often an argument against one's position, as racism is scientifically well-backed.

>>9614167
1. I wasn't talking about Land, I was talking about neoreaction in general.
2. Give examples of Land's ahistorical arguments and him being called out on them
3. There's literally nothing wrong with defining a word then basing an argument off that definition, have you never read philosophy before?

>>9614205
>examples of Land's ahistorical arguments
Easy, I don't need to look farther than this essay: "atomisation" precedes the Reformation by centuries. It has more to do with urbanisation than religious ideas. It's because for almost all history, urbanites have been immigrants uprooting themselves from their rural homes (from the people they formed connections with growing up), to leave among strangers.
>3. There's literally nothing wrong with defining a word then basing an argument off that definition
Outside fiction, your word has to correspond to something real, or you're not talking.
>have you never read philosophy before?
More than you, I'd wager. And a lot more of other things too.

>>9614260
to live* among strangers
or you're not talking about anything*

>>9614086
>>9614113
When I read about the ideas of neo-reaction I have a hard time understanding why I'd rather live in a pseudo-ancap sovereign corporation as opposed to Social Democracy, but with racism (keep the blacks, Arabs, and Amerindians out, in general). It seems to work in Switzerland. It's not like white people weren't racist before, after all.

>>9614293
Don't mention Switzerland. It triggers Land.

>>9614305
Or even New England, in general, or Denmark, which is about as successful as you can be under EU law at keeping Arabs and Blacks out. Denmark and Switzerland both have fairly neo-liberal economies, too, but with welfare.

I think going on about Democracy as being inimical to civilization sort of overlooks the elephant in the room that is Blackness, and it's not clear how an executive with profit motive won't run afoul of this problem. Like, big US companies advocate for more third world immigration for a reason.

>>9614305
switzerland's sole existence consists of it being europe's tax haven. the form of politics it takes is irrelevant. markets are irrelevant. the people there exist as potemkin village human-sized cutouts in order to occupy land. should politics hinder its function as a tax haven, its political structure will be changed to accommodate it.

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>>9614293
Switzerland is pretty capitalist, bro.
>>9614305

>>9614385
I know, most of the successful Euro social democracies have more economic freedom than the US. You have to actually have money to pay for welfare states. I just feel that welfare capitalism but with racialism (to the degree that it can keep the blacks and Arabs from entering) is quite good. Like, the American Progressive Party in the era of Theodore Roosevelt was pretty good on race. What went wrong? Maybe I'm historically illiterate, but it has to have been guilt over Nazism or Slavery.

>>9614411
good times leads to the degenerating of the survival mindset necessary to sustain in-group preference and out-group mistrust

>>9614427
You merely need to identify certain out-group(s), namely, blacks and Arabs, and recognize that they will hurt your financial position in the long term, and reduce public safety.

>good times leads to the degenerating of the survival mindset necessary to sustain in-group preference and out-group mistrust
Isn't Japan a counterexample to this, or Denmark, which isn't eager at all to bring in outsiders?

>>9614086
1) It seems to me that much of the writing is bad and overwrought, concealing deficiencies in thinking. People don't just criticize it because they don't understand it.
2) I just posted the rationalwiki jab at NRx as a joke. I don't really think it's bad that NRx is so prevalent in blogs. However, I do think that the criticism of the writing as being unjustifiably long-winded and rambling is accurate.
3) I don't really care about people being racist, myself. I'm a race realist. I think that some races are more intelligent than others, on average, with whites being near the top of the heap. However, I don't think it's right to mistreat individuals based on the averages of what race they belong to. Therefore, I am strongly opposed to the idea of making race distinctions a political matter - whether that takes the shape of affirmative action or institutional/legal racism. Furthermore, I don't see any way to make race a political matter without bringing more authoritarianism into politics - another thing I strongly oppose. Of course, here I completely depart from NRx. I think that liberal democracy is doing well, certainly not perfect, but better than any system yet tried.
Actually, the rationalwiki article expresses one of my own thoughts on the matter rather well:
>Neoreactionaries are the latest in a long line of intellectuals who somehow think that *their* chosen authoritarian thugs wouldn't put *them* up against the wall.
Precisely. At the end of the day, neoreactionaries, fascists, and communists, and militant anarchists, despite their seeming differences, all have a very similar *psychological* structure. All do politics with their emotions, not with their minds. All are fundamentally acting out of resentment. All these movements tend to attract the losers of the world, the outcasts, the ones full of resentment. All have cult-like aspects.
To replace liberal democracy with any of these systems would be the utmost retardation.

>>9614503
>It seems to me that much of the writing is bad and overwrought, concealing deficiencies in thinking. People don't just criticize it because they don't understand it.
Who are people criticizing specifically when they criticize NRx writing? Moldbug and Land have different writing styles and their writing styles differ significantly from other NRx writers.
>At the end of the day, neoreactionaries, fascists, and communists, and militant anarchists, despite their seeming differences, all have a very similar *psychological* structure. All do politics with their emotions, not with their minds. All are fundamentally acting out of resentment. All these movements tend to attract the losers of the world, the outcasts, the ones full of resentment. All have cult-like aspects.
Not only is this total cringe, it misses the point of NRx completely. NRx is not authoritarian in the slightest and you should read Moldbug or Land's reading of Moldbug before you try to criticize it.

>>9614503
are you familiar with the conservation of sovereignty? do you know what is unsecure power? imperium in imperio?

>>9614086

Pretty sure only normies and brainlets can't understand Land.

Low iq or high cognitive bias types

>>9606291
>what is psychohistory

>>9607265
#rhetttwitter ?

A little chat with Nick Land in a bar:
https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2012/10/09/a-chat-with-mr-land/

>>9610977

I like your flow of thought, are you a grill?

>>9614385
Land's theory, borrowed from Hoppe, is that democracy is virtually the medium of anti-Capitalism.

Can you imagine Nick Land having sex?

>>9615270
no, he most asexual appearing person, I've ever seen.

>>9615270
uhh do you imagine your parents having sex? I rather don't.

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>>9615270
i can imagine him watching this instead

>>9605557
>The dynamo driving things tends irresistibly in that direction. Try to split, and it whirls faster.
He's essentially describing entropic and chaotic processes.While this is pretty evident in the west, I wonder how much longer the islamic world or china can withstand. But nothing can stand against Gnon (or the laws of physics and nature), essentially reality forever , in the end they too will be consumed by chaos and atomization and their traditions and belief system will diversify or annihilate lin the process as it is happening in the west now.

>>9615588
with affordable smartphones and internet everywhere no tradition is safe. once you get sucked into the net you're done.

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>>9615270
>can you imagine capital having sex with time

>>9609916
>The modern Western individual who is a capable adult with a source of income, etc. has a lifestyle that is superior to that of the most powerful humans alive on Earth several hundred years ago
dude i can go on an airplane and watch netflix in my underpants lmao truly this is the apex of human civilization

American thinkers need to fuck off when they speak about 'the West'. We Europeans are so far removed from your superficial entertainment culture. We actually visit different countries. American thinkers tend to think the US somehow represents Western culture as a whole. In Europe, the US is considered a plastic, fake and uncultured society where everyone secretly hates each other. A guy like Trump could never be elected in, say, France or Germany. We have nothing to do with your 'Protestantism', which is completely different in Europe anyway. Fuck off.

>>9615797
i agree, america is ground zero for crypto-philosemitism

>>9615797
you realise land is a british expat in china, right?

>>9615666
Satan you never cease to amaze.

>>9615891
anglos are practically american anyway

>>9615797
This. "Western Civilisation" is a bullshit concept made up by Anglos who are too schizophrenic about their identity, especially Americans who want to square the circle and preserve their anti-Europeanism and view themselves as a continuation of Europe at the same time, hence "Western" not "European" civilisation.
Albion must die.

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>>9615797
>a guy like trump could never be elected in germany

>>9616553
don't insult hitler like this anon

>>9605804
The modern west is built on the liberal tradition which is individualist in intent and consequence, and every challenger to said liberalism so far can be pigeonholed as suspiciously close to communism, fascism, or theocracy (or something that isn't explicitly religious but has priorities so amaterial and arcane it might as well be).

>>9607525
The trends you describe do exist, but I'll admit to considering myself "pro-atomization" in a sense because I fear the more conventional potential tyranny of the alternatives; the desirability of communal bonds is extremely dependent on the people you hold them with.

My Posting Career is a stupid board of wannabee Serious Conservative Intellectuals, but their SCALE theory is onto something; the tribal instincts that underlie social connections don't expand past a fairly limited point because Dunbar's Number. I have a pet theory that there's a tendency towards universalism with civilizational advance because civilization implies a "rational" concern for people you don't really care about, and once you're at that point it seems like an arbitrary point to care about one group of strangers you'll never meet over the others.

I'd say the living to work part is dependent in good part on economic particulars instead of social inevitability, though. The main issues seem to be housing and medicine which have a whole host of clusterfucks associated with them, and the technological miracles are disproportionately in computing, which advances faster than more "concrete", physical tech for its own reasons.

>>9616529

Is it not the case though, that the prevailing themes of accelerationism, mainly automation and fetishism of commodities, still largely present all across Europe all the way to the East? May be true that you're not all populists, but I'll be damned if everyone up on the first world isn't getting fucked over your own prosperity.

>t. third world shitholer

>>9610363
The two desires act and will act in tension with each other, hell Kant wrote about how people have the conflicting need for society and dislike of being constrained by other people.

>>9613432
Pretty much me desu, the alternatives proposed by opponents to atomization tend to either be "kill the jews and ban degeneracy" or social theories too esoteric to be used as a basis for policy or vision.

>>9617255
I like having a healthy level of alienation from others, personally. I don't want to have to be a part of The Community constantly.

>>9617402
The problem with communitarian politics is the assumption that everyone's your friend and has your back; give /pol/ its Man in the High Castle society and they'll probably end up screaming profanities at the church ladies for interfering with their hobbies.

>>9617448
>give /pol/ its Man in the High Castle society
They'll just sit around and call each other cucks all day. That's basically where the alt-right came from anyway.

>>9617491
High quality post

>>9613977

You have not understood anarcho-syndicalism or the context of the Spanish Civil War. We're not talking 70s Vermont communes here.

>>9616553

Come the fuck on now cunt, I'm an antifa organiser and absolutely opposed to Hitler-worship, but jesus leaping christ:

> wounded in war, fought heroically
> poor
> frustrated artist
> ascetic monk-like life
> monogamous to one regular woman
> builds a grassroots movement and takes power through powerful oratory

vs

> Born to rich family
> Grew up rich
> Tasteless yuppie
> excess everywhere
> grab them by the pussy
> Incoherently mumbles his way to power, then heroically fucks up basic bureaucratic management

That's a hell of a fuckup. Hitler was ten times the man Trump will ever be

why is this fucking youtuber on my /lit/ all the time? STOP PLEASE. watching videos about philosophy is not doing philosophy.

>>9618408
this is actually a good point

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>>9605557
>it's a "/lit/ falls for Land's hyperstitious bullshit" episode
bunch'a pseuds

>>9615747
Do you think a king from any past civilization wouldn't jump at the opportunity to do that?

>>9609954
>"There is only one sane and healthy relation to Christianity; perfect indifference..."

This is actually a pretty interesting attitude to have, despite the rest of it.

>>9618394
>groups of 'like minded individuals' opting out of mainstream society in order to create a little bubble to pursue their personal idea of how to live.
They were groups of 'like minded individuals' opting out of mainstream society in order to create a little bubble to pursue their personal idea of how to live. And now they are gone.

>>9618408
>antifa

How does it feel to be a traitor to your people?

>>9617126
>le commies n fashies r religious
I remember thinking this was a great point when I was in high school, jerking off to Camus' "The Rebel". Individualism/collectivism is a false dichotomy. There is still coercion and force in liberal capitalism, it's just subversive.

>>9620333
yup. "subversive" is the new norm, has been for a while. will be for a while.

sometimes evola really makes sense tbqh

>>9613830
This is actually a pretty good article. I am amused that someone who is a Voeglin scholar can comprehend 4chan.

>>9620333
I said communism, fascism, and theocracy were the three categories, not that the first two were the latter.

It's true that absolute individualism and freedom from coercion is nonsensical in any scenario barely resembling physical reality, but it's still reasonable to call liberalism individualist compared to fascism and communism, which are explicitly based on subsuming the individual to the state/volk (unless you wish to argue that they offer a truer freedom than liberalism).

>>9615797
>We Europeans are so far removed from your superficial entertainment culture.
Have you ever been to Europe or even met a European before?

>>9618415
>Doesn't even have a YouTube account

Why are nips more atomized than others?

>>9618408
>I'm an antifa organiser
lol

>>9613722
>http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/
best goyim remeber not to have children

>>9620811
A lot of it's probably him taking his time to think about it and having an actual interest in the subject; dumb takes on 4chan in the media, like so much of its content, are largely the product of disinterested college interns and less-than-stellar graduates trying to pump out enough material for the Twitter and 24-hour news cycles.

The best way to understand modern news is to think of it as a student trying to pad out their essay for lit class.

>>9621635
high population density, highly urbanised, high iq, high autism

>>9605557
So we can never escape Christianity in the western world?

>>9605557
Does anyone have the excerpt of Land comparing humanity to crude oil? It makes me lol

>>9621843
I don't understand why anyone would honestly think you could understand a culture (We're far more than a subculture at this point) by just cursory examination. We really need to start saying lurk moar again.

This place is a sociological/HBD goldmine and yet no one spends the required year lurking to actually understand anything, they just see pepe and Hitler and rant about EVIL NAZIS.

>>9609954
>>9609954
Serious question. Do many people really experience Christianity/whatever religion like this as a kid? With the teacher/priest/whatever forcing you to believe the metaphysical truth of the Bible? I attended fairly religious schools, and thinking back, it was always pretty obvious we were being taught about culture, myth, morality etc. Never felt like we were being forced to believe Jesus walked on water.

>>9622396
I don't know about today, but when I was in church 20 years ago, we had really old clercs, who said no word about taking the holy bible not literally. If someone asked too many questions, they had to stand in the corner, with their arms streched out left and right like on a cross, for 1 hour. That's no joke.

>>9622396
I'm an atheist (at least when it comes to the bible figure) but I too always wanted him (yes him, not one of these deluded christcucks believes in an abstract force, they all see an anthropomorphic father figure with beard even if they are too cowardly too admit it) to exist and I really would love to punch his dumb visage to a pulp. At least he would have to answer to me (not the other way around) why anything exists at all when non existance would have been so much more logical, elegant and painless for all and everything. Nothing that exists can justify it's existance when the alternative (nonexistance) is absolutely perfect.

>>9623683
t. nick land's 14 yo son

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There sure is a lot of eating from the trashcan of ideology going on in this thread.

>>9623772
>stop listening to the machinic mechinations lads c-communism is still relevant

zizek is a big fat mess

>>9621605
I am European. Let me tell you, we have TV channels where there are NO COMMERCIAL BREAKS. Can you believe it? On commercial channels there is one every 30 mins or so. If you watch any American TV series here there are numerous moments of 'fading out' and then instantly 'fading back in', because you fat retards need to have ADHD commercials every 10 minutes or so. This is just one example.

Let me give you another simple example: celebrity endorsments for politicians. Here in Europe it is hardly conceivable that a celebrity would publicly endorse a certain canditate, let alone perform on their rallies (or doing the 'whip' at Ellen Degeneres). Trump was elected because of America's entertainment culture. A former reality TV star who was born rich and lives a life of constant superficiality and excess. Americans eat that shit up. Politics is just entertainment for them. Just look at 'Comey Day' a few days ago, where there were numerous events at bars and pubs to watch that shit. Your culture has nothing to do with us Europeans. We are far superior culturally.

>>9617189
I would actually argue that hardware has reached a sort of conventional fever pitch and the software is really begin to fill the shoes of hardware advancements up until the recent past.

Once again we've developed something we didn't really KNOW what the do with, in the most mature way afforded by these advancements.

>>9623822
You guys are still going to come crying to the US to provide security when it comes time to send your Muslims home.

>>9623822
Europe is great, too bad we're giving it all away to savages.

>>9614516
>Neoreaction isnt authoritarian
How much Moldbug have you read? He has more essays than just patchwork, and even that one is him praising authoritarian government.

>>9622396
Pretty much all of my direct experience with crazy Christian literalism was through other kids at my school, but I never actually met anyone banned from Pokemon or whatever. Hell, the friend whose house I went to to play M-rated games believed Revelation was nearish.

It was still weird that my grade-school friend thought Paradise Lost was actual theology though.

>>9624099
>but I never actually met anyone banned from Pokemon or whatever
More people have claimed they couldn't play D&D because their crazy fundamentalist Christian wouldn't let them than people who have actually played D&D, ever.

>>9624083

I'm not going to put my hand on the fire for Moldbug, but in Land authoritarianism is a mere step in the direction of a singularity. A mere vector of acceleration towards the true endgame of the Capital. It is a non-seqitur to say this is done with emotion: Land presents the coldest view possible, even mechanizing and diminishing humans to being mere functional units that carry the collective effects of capitalism.

In fact, we can even remain a democracy or whatever else people want, and it will only detain the Capital for a little longer, not stop it. Authoritarianism here is also strictly NOT in the military, fascist or communist senses. What Land expects to happen (even wishes for, the madman), is that we either become a straight up Orwellian nightmare with one or more superintelligences raping us all day long, or a Neocameralist society with a board of (AI aided) shareholders exercising full dominion over territories, represented by a CEO of sorts. The least harmful claim is that this is done with any emotion at all, it is actually the epitome of raw efficiency and economic values.

>>9624107

Also, to add into something, his views are probably strongly influenced by his sinophilic experiences in Shangai. Their society is much closer to the proper levels of authority-but-freedom ratios that Land thinks are ideal for the Capital. All they lack is automation, and the recent crises in US/Europe governments are opening a gap so that China/Eastern countries can fill in and become the "economic landlords" of the world. And they are apparently much more of accelerationists than we are.

>>9622396
If you grow up in a family that's actually religious you absolutely do.

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>>9624107
>>9624116
>never send a human to do a machine's job.

Reading these posts made me wonder if Nick Land's version of The Matrix Agent Smith is actually the protagonist.

Would be interesting to get a kind of Bizarro sequel to the Matrix, from the NRx point of view. Maybe it would be too cold tho to be successful at the box office.

>>9624175
Yeah, that's the problem with most NRx stuff, it's bleak as fuck. Moldbug's view of politics and oligarchy being completely inevitable and the rule of the people is a joke unless it's the rule of the mob, or Land's position that we're going to get fucked by Capital anyways so we might as just well bite the pillow and let the giant cock of the machinic phylum rip our intestines apart, are not comforting views of reality for most people.

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>>9624357
He sounds exactly like Agent Smith. Who Wore It Better?

>I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

>I hate this place. This zoo. This prison. This reality, whatever you want to call it, I can't stand it any longer. It's the smell, if there is such a thing. I feel saturated by it. I can taste your stink and every time I do, I fear that I've somehow been infected by it.

>Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.

>We're willing to wipe the slate clean, give you a fresh start.

Especially this:

>Never send a human to do a machine's job.

>>9624363
>Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not.
That is wrong, though. The whole ecosystem is in a constant state of disequilibrium, with massive population swings being the norm across long spans of time. Humans are no exception to this. The whole "stable ecosystem" crap is a gigantic meme validated by false data.

The second episode of "All Watched over by Machines of Loving Grace" should give a quick overview of this.

>>9624425
True.

I'm still not convinced Land isn't a crypto-catholic.

>>9624363
>vaporwave is our primitive cerebra trying to wake up from the acceleration into the "peak of our civilization" which is 80s consumerist nostalgia
huh. really makes you think.

>>9624514
If he is a crypto-Catholic I don't see what his endgame is writing all this stuff. It doesn't seem particularly calculated to drive people to Christ.

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KEEP
CALM
AND
RIDE
THE TIGER

>>9624357
Current-day moldbug (whenever you see a post of his in the comments of some blog somewhere) is especially bleak.

>Meanwhile, over on the corporate side of the fence, we have a perfectly reliable, proven mechanism for incredibly responsible and efficient management. The problem is just that it doesn’t make anyone’s dick hard.

or

>A few blocks away from me, about a year ago, on a beautiful little Duboce Corner block which has a bistro and looks like it could be in Paris, a couple, people just like you and me, was attacked by a group of thugs with hammers. The woman was raped and left with brain damage. The husband posts all the time trying to figure out various kinds of caregiver stuff.

What kind of tech do you think Nick Land uses? My guess is a thinkpad and a chinkphone like huawei or something.

>>9624919
That's what happens when you choose to live near sanctuary cities and refugee resettlement areas, reminds me of Utica, if you don't want your brain turned to scramble eggs you don't live next to muhammadans.

>>9624986
>>9624919
Another quote from around the time of the Lambdaconf drama:

>Everything I say I believe (at the time -- I still get flak for telling people not to buy bitcoin in 2013, because the gubmint was gonna shut it down. Well, it still could happen).
But it's difficult to separate opinion X from the commonly accepted stereotype of people who believe opinion X. It easily turns into a game of progressive telephone in which Twitter is talking about someone who has my name, but is otherwise Leonardo DiCaprio from Django Unchained. Or maybe Edward Norton from American History X.
I think one of the worst tropes in people who, for example, don't believe that human evolution stopped at the neck, is that they inhabit these stereotypes and make them their own. It's like Weev with his swastika tattoo. Really, Weev? Did you need to?

For anyone interested, here is a link to Nick Land's recent seminar "The Concept of Acceleration" at the New Center for Research and Practice.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLM6AzdvgK2LJMLHhI3Yeouy-3jiAKcvuB


I just found these videos (unlisted), so I'm only a few sessions in, but it's a pretty great introduction to Accelerationism and specifically it's Left/Right distinctions.

The first session is a little tense. Early on, one of the NCRP coordinators addresses the LD50 controversy around Land, but explains that the NCRP still stands behind him. This changed part way through the course, and the NCRP cut ties with Land, but let him finish the class.

There is also some awkward back and forth between Land and some of the authors of the Alt-Woke manifesto. At one point one of those authors describes HBD as a "falsifiable science", and though she is misusing the term falsifiable the tension and silence afterwards is pretty nuts.

Sessions 2 and 3 look at the MAP, Alt-Woke Manifesto and Xenofeminist Manifesto. This is where I really appreciate Land, in his ability to engage honestly with political positions he doesn't hold, without being snarky or dismissive.

Part way through the 4th lecture, in which the focus is the nature of the critique of capital as perversion ("a telic reversal of instrumentalization, of means becoming ends in themselves") and it's pretty fucking good.

I believe the second half of the course is to focus on U/Acc and R/Acc and NRx, but I suspect Left Acceleration will continue to come up from the students.

>>9626387
nice find anon, cheers

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/11/accelerationism-how-a-fringe-philosophy-predicted-the-future-we-live-in

I've read almost all of Nick's writings and have concluded he's basically a racist neo-liberal

>>9626686
>discriminating against racists
that's not very open-minded

>>9618408
>antifa dickrides hitler more than /pol/

>>9626686
yeah but it's the journey that counts

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>Yfw you could have made millions in crypto and had sex with legions of beatiful women through technologically engaged prostitution

Even our most base desires are now so easily obtainable as to be entirely worthless

>>9607525
>TFW I cried when i saw that pic and completely diverted my attention from the thread

>>9621605
Neither European nor American and can tell you that talking to an american literally feels like talking to a brainwashed sheep

>>9623822
I live in Europe and celebrities are always running their mouths about politics (specifically shilling for more immigration and being more includive toward our replacement population). They may not endorse specific parties but they certainly condemn the "far-right" parties. This goes for actors, comedians, writers, journalists etc. Their lifestyle is upheld by being complicit in pushing a particular agenda, and refusal to toe the line results in being put out in the cold. I also don't understand your point about Trump (who is primarily involved in real estate, not reality television) since celebrities in the US all seemed to shill for Hillary.

Land is probably a multi millionaire by now

>>9627554
Why would you think that?

>>9627576
money in crypto

>>9623822

I mean its really got nothing to do with ADHD
advertisement and marketing is a ridiculously huge market in the US
Companies are willing to pay for the time and networks have no reason to turn down what is essentially free money for them
I really think the average person doesn't care because it's pretty much just always been like that

>>9627652
That's doubtful

>>9627695
he seems like the kind of guy to get in early in bitcoin and such

>>9611199
punk is dad

>>9628548
He seems like the type of guy who doesn't have what it takes to put his money where his balls are (aka cyberspace)

>>9623822
>celebrity endorsments for politicians. Here in Europe it is hardly conceivable that a celebrity would publicly endorse a certain canditate, let alone perform on their rallies (or doing the 'whip' at Ellen Degeneres).
Meanwhile on rowlings twitter feed

>>9626387
I'm still working my way through "The Concept of Acceleration", trying to do the accompanying readings as they come up as well.

Unlike previous Nick Land seminars I've listened to, this one has an air of drama to it. In session 5, one of the NCRP coordinators (Mohammad Salemy) interjects towards the middle. He thanks Nick for letting him and some others sit in on the lecture for a few minutes to "get a sense of the Nick Land controversy". Of course, he's referring to the No Platform for LD50 organizers who were petitioning to have Land's course canceled.

Session 5 also uses a Peter Thiel article as the focus for a discussion around 'Stagnation' as it relates to Accelerationism. At one point, one of the Alt-Woke Manifesto authors attempts to refute Land's lack of political connection, drawing a line from Land to Moldbug to Peter Thiel to Trump. Land refutes this, saying his connection with Moldbug is mostly 'one way and philosophical', that is that Land writes on Moldbug, but that Moldbug/Yarvin has never really reached out to Land. Land says he would be honored to have direct connection to Peter Thiel (whom he has a lot of interest in), but that the connection just doesn't exist.

Listening to session 6 now, as far as I can tell it was recorded after the March 29 facebook statement which announced that the New Centre was cutting ties with Land. So far, no direct mention of the statement is made in the lecture. He keeps it pretty professional.

Interestingly, Peter Thiel's positions are compared to Left Accelerationist principles of planning and intervention. Thiel is cast as anti-competition and anti-free market, and much is made of Thiel's disdain for paltry consumerist gadgets and the way industry must appeal to base consumer desires over some kind of true technological progress or innovation.

>>9628758
Here's the FB statement from the New Centre

>The New Centre for Research & Practice
>March 29 ·
>Statement on Nick Land.
>Several years back, The New Centre for Research & Practice reached consensus about allowing Land to teach seminars for us based upon a single, collectively-agreed upon point: that, especially in his 1990s form, he served as one of several historical precedents for what later became known as accelerationism, and was for that minimal reason, relevant to our milieu. The New Centre is a diverse, active community of a few hundred educated people and we operate collectively to negotiate internal differences, as we are composed of students, artists, researchers, and thinkers engaged with philosophy, theory, and politics from a number of perspectives and different walks of life. The people involved in the LD50 shutdown have been well aware of our long-standing disagreements regarding Land, because there has been an ongoing private conversation between several of us and a member of the shutdown campaign dating back to February. As we told this member at that time, The New Centre began serious internal debate over the potential termination of our relationship with Land from the beginning of 2017. In fact, though, we considered doing so years prior as well, at several different turns. But following several tweets by Land this year in which he espoused intolerant opinions about Muslims and immigrants, we reached out to our board members and other people in our community to arrive at a collective, informed decision. The one person from LD50 Shutdown with whom we had been in contact since February had assured us that before any public action, they would inform us privately of the nature of any demands they might issue so that we might act collectively in good faith, and even extra-institutionally, in the spirit of solidarity and respect. To surprise us with a demand without writing to us first therefore, falls entirely outside of this agreement and amounts to one more example of the bad faith, call-out - rather than call-in - politics that we must all learn to divest ourselves of. Nevertheless, after consulting with members of our board and other community members as far back as January and continuing through February, we made the decision to not work with him in the future, as a number of people can attest to. We decided to stop working with him because we believe we should all preserve our energies for fighting right-wing, white nationalist, alt-right ideologies and philosophies and their political consequences in actual life. We hope you will join us in this spirit.

>>9628768
"muslims ruin everything"

>>9628774
Do we just not talk any more about how at one point we in the West were fighting a full-blown war with Muslims specifically to keep them/drive them out of Europe?

>>9628768
I've never understood why Land chose to work for New Centre, from what I've heard they're a off-shoot from Grand Valley and Nick was actually their star lecturer.

>>9628778
Shh! Islamaphobe! There's no war, stop being a bigot and open your borders.

Diversity is our strength after all

>>9628778
No of course not, that might be racist. Wouldn't want to hurt anyones feelings after all.

>>9628774
Mohammad Salemy seems like a cool dude. He's pretty active in some of Land's earlier seminars and definately seems on board with Land's apolitical/nihilistic version of Nihilism. But since the NCRP must struggle to have relevance within Academia, while also trying to have a position on it's fringe, it's kind of sad that they caved to the Shutdown LD50 campaign against Land. I'm totally on board with the SDLD50 activism against Brett Stevens (who is just a boring racist troll peddling far-fetched, reactionary folk politics), but Land is a honest interlocutor of the Left/Right/Unconditional Accelerationist divide.

Durring the 4th session of 'The Concept of Acceleration' Land makes a comment that he has always been more at home among left-wing marxist theory, specifically because it engages an anti-humanism against capital, where as the right is continually stuck in some kind of folk politics or naive assessment of technology.

Land's positions don't really have a place on the right, especially not the alt-right or white nationalism. It's pretty sad to see the NCRP, whose whole theoretical focus on Acceleration is based around Land's theories, has shut him out due to his non-egalitarian politics. I don't even know how they can pretend to be at the forefront of Accelerationist theory if they're not giving Land a seat at the table.

>>9628803
see my post >>9628832

the NCRP wants to be on the cutting edge of Accelerationist thought. I don't know how they could not include Nick Land.

>>9628832
>seems on board with Land's apolitical/nihilistic version of Nihilism.

That should read apolitical/nihilistic version of Accelerationism.

>>9628832
but the fact that universities aren't robust enough to have one guy with a dissenting opinion is ridiculous tho

i guess we need jordan peterson to save us or something, we need like a fully online khan academy for university discourse where people can say whatever the fuck they want as long as they're interesting and people want to hear it. you need a thoroughly depoliticized no-fuckery institute

all tuition in bitcoin

>>9628853
>>9628853
>but the fact that universities aren't robust enough to have one guy with a dissenting opinion is ridiculous tho

Actual, brick and mortar universities have no interest in Accelerationism. It's too new. There is no text book. It's too politically divisive and it's inherently anti-human, though the Left Accelerationists are trying to hold onto some kind of moral humanist imperitive.

The NCRP was created specifically to give an online space to contemporary philosophers working with new ideas, and to join them together across the world. That it has succumb to leftist identity politics is a shame.

>i guess we need jordan peterson to save us or something
Fuck off with Jordan Peterson though. He isn't going to save anything.

>>9628853
>where people can say whatever the fuck they want as long as they're interesting and people want to hear it. you need a thoroughly depoliticized no-fuckery institute

Wrong again. We need spaces where people can engage in political dispute. The last thing I'd want is some kind of reactionary school where left marxism and it's identity politics are forbidden. They just can't drive institutional decisions, beyond keeping out boring white nationalists or reactionaries and traditionalists, who really have nothing new to offer, by the very nature of their positions.

The dispute between the the Shutdown LD50 group against Land was a case of mistaken identity. They thought they were pushing out alt-right, white nationalists, when really they pushed out a nihilist.

>>9628881
i agree with this

the problem really is with universities tho and it's just because of the time we live in and the academic/political culture. people want safe spaces but the thing to do is to let people speak and foster a tradition of civil discourse

the problem with land is that he wants to talk about things that make people feel uncomfortable, like human biodiversity. and the more you censor stuff the bigger it gets. if you tell people they're not supposed to talk about HBD they're going to draw the obvious conclusions that there is something there that people would prefer not get talked about. and so it goes

but keeping politics out of universities is an almost unmanageable task right now because politics = $$$. you need to attract a wide group of people. and so messages get coded and the intellectual grooming process begins

so yeah i don't know. i could go either way. a decentralized university where you can talk about anything but runs the risk of creating pointless or solipsistic echo chambers, or universities with open political dispute that wind up in the end beholden to the same old forces

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>>9628881
>A university that looks like the world of today can only be a ‘multi-versity’, is an exploded and expanded institution that will affirm a constructive post-humanity. As such it cannot support education for the sole purpose of integration into the labour market, but also for its own sake. We do need to embrace non-profit as a key value in contemporary knowledge production, but this gratuitousness is linked to the construction of social horizons of hope and therefore it is a vote of confi- dence in the sheer sustainability of the future (Braidotti, 2006). The future is nothing more or less than inter-generational solidarity, responsibility for posterity, but it is also our shared dream, or a consensual hallucination. Collini puts it beautifully: ‘we are merely custodians for the present generation of a complex intellectual inheritance which we did not create, and which is not ours to destroy’. Posthuman Humanities are already at work in the global multi-versity, not only to fend off extinction, but also to actualize sustainable posthuman futures.

for what it's worth

>>9628965
I've always been confused about what a post-human future actually looks like. Nick Land put it pretty well in this lecture series, it'd be a human zoo run by an AI for the purpose of conservation, or more perversely, entertainment (though surely not our entertainment).

I think the model of the NCRP is essentially what is needed. Cheap courses, available all over the world, not for the purpose of training for labour, but for intellectual exchange and 'excitement', which I mean in the sexual sense of a dick getting hard and shooting off. Sometimes it hits a womb, but not always.

The traditional university is too attached to Humanism to ever engage with actual nihilism beyond treating it as a historical object. If the institution forecloses the possibility of nihilism as the conclusion of philosophy, then it isn't acting in good faith.

>>9629030
lots of interesting philosophy being done in this area now, check out david roden's book on posthuman life

basically 'humanism' itself is kind of the logjam where people are stuck and are likely to stay stuck unless some new perspectives are allowed out into the light

ncrp is okay with me too, i don't need things to be too crazy. but nihilism is the jumping off point and as you say it's a lack of good faith to not allow people to express their views, especially if they're as informed as nick land's

posthuman/transhuman stuff is much interesting

>>9624425
well in a way it IS in a constant equilibrium, in the sense that when something consumes too much it goes extinct. Nature wins in the end.

>>9618408
Aside from the fact I think antifa are lower than pond scum, I respect your ability to make a more nuanced comparison than the usual "le drumpf is literally hitler"

>>9624363
Land really does write like Agent Smith doesn't he? And he's just as retarded.
>Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment
This is patently untrue. Every other mammal simply lives at its malthusian limit: the population breeds and consumes until it can't breed and consume any more. There's no internal, "instinctual" regulation going on. The regulation is external/environmental: scarcity of resources puts a hard limit on a population's size. This is why invasive species are an ecological "problem."
>You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area.
So, the same as every other life form in existence.

You can see a plethora of instances of plain intellectual retardation in Land's work, like for example blatantly saying that the purpose of life is death. The guy is a fucking gibberish spewing machine. That /lit/ takes him seriously is solid proof this place is filled with a bunch'a pseuds.

>>9619472

>>9630541
>hurr words words words durr
Stop redefining terms to fit your bullshit counterfactuals.

>>9624514
Land is a cyberfeminist.

>>9628803
Because they're his kin and kith. Land is a dyed in the wool leftist. He was born that way. And like reaches out for like. People can't change who they are. He's banned dozens of people for pointing this out on his blog. His dance with the alt-right is just desperate rent seeking. He's starving for an audience.

This is a genuine question, so could someone more knowledgeable than me answer it rather than loads of people piling on about how I'm a leftist commie for it.

Ok, so I know Land talks about the "Patch-Work" a lot and has expressed vague support for "racial realism" (racism), but is this not all just part of his desire for atomisation? If whites segregate themselves away from all other races they simply become more atomised further accelerating the process of capital's ascendancy as it "eats" humanity. So are his new "Alt-Right" views not simply a reflection of this? I never got the impression he wanted the patch-work to allow for white nationalism to emerge, merely seeing this as a consequence. And further is the "Patch-Work" of city states not just another way Land wants to bring about atomisation and societal dissolution?

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>>9632357
Here's my take.

My impression is that NL believes Moldbuggian/Neocameral government is fundamentally more capable of responding to and working with the baked-in atomizing tendencies of human beings in this way. Patchwork micro-states are better for capital and better for citizens of their respective mini SovCorps in general. Land isn't alt-right because he doesn't attribute to whiteness as much as guys like Spencer does. He does valorize the Anglosphere but this isn't so far removed from Samuel Huntington.

>is the "Patch-Work" of city states not just another way Land wants to bring about atomisation and societal dissolution?
We're already atomized and atomizing further but we do this out of bad faith and wild misunderstandings of ourselves, liberalism, capital, all of that. Ice-cold corporate dealings are the way to go and the conversations that take place in those boardrooms are simply going to function better when they aren't presiding over vast empires and tied up in never-ending philosophical bureaucracy.

It's not that whites need to segregate themselves, it's intelligence that needs to segregate so that it can do its thing. There's a paradox in this, of course - the IQ shredder - but in general life seems to be working in Singapore regardless.

So if atomization is the natural tendency and it fragilizes large states, fracturing it into patchwork states would seem to be the way for a political macroprocess to adjust to and comport itself to psychological microprocesses. He's an advocate of HBD but in the end it's IQ that matters for him more than skin color.

That's how I understand it, anyways. I could be wrong.

>>9632357
Land makes it pretty clear in his recent "Concept of Accelerationism" seminar that the Alt-Right and Accelerationism are incompatible. The Alt-Right is essentially a populist movement that seeks to turn back the clock through protectionism, an slightly confused desire for social welfare, and turning back the clock. For Land, the Alt-Right is essentially a form of state inhibition of capital.

He finds some support among the alt-right for his views on race, but in the end he is not a white nationalist, he just doesn't believe in multiculturalism and democracy as desirable ideologies for a well oiled nation (or micro-nation).

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>>9628758
Still listening to the 'Concept of Acceleration Seminar', now on session 7 of 8.

Land posits an 'Accelerationist Trolley Problem' and I felt it was only fitting to make a trolley problem meme out of it.

“For the purpose of illustration it might be helpful to consider an Accelerationist Trolley Problem: Extracted from the illusory form of a timeless dilemma, the stout innocent stranger by one’s side is no longer to be weighed contemplatively against the lives of a half dozen orphans who might be saved by his sacrifice. Rather, unless the fat guy dies right now, there won’t be time to make a decision of any kind. We have scarcely begun to define the problem in these terms, whether philosophically or politically. It would be surprising, even miraculous, if there was still time to do so.”