Name a more intellectually rich novel than this one.

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>>9603365

>>9603365
fuck german authors.
"oh i'm going to write fiction, but in reality it's a philosophical treatise! tee hee"

>>9603392
And that's bad how?

>>9603395
it's a fucking lie. they just want to write philosophy. they don't want complex interactions between humans and environments and themes, they want a dry as fuck essay that goes on for sixteen hundred pages. shame is few wish to read that so they slap some makeup on their pigs and send them squealing into the libraries.

if you want to read some pig, be my guest.

>>9603407
>being this much of a brainlet

>>9603385
What did you make of Lukacs' analysis of TVHC. Too reductive? Or is it legitimate to simply see it as an extension of Hapsburg bourgeois society approaching senility?

>>9603417
there's a time and a place for dry bullshit mouthpieces establishing a lengthy failure of a philosophical treatise. that time is well after i've established that there is nothing left in this life to enjoy and that i've taken an interest in suffering and boredom.

>>9603428
You haven't read OP's pic related, have you?

>>9603434
No I haven't lol

>>9603434
nope, never will. thomas mann was a pedophile and wanted to assblast his son. plus i know what german authors have to offer. doesn't interest me.

>>9603458
i dont really see what the problem is with a great work of literature and the authors personal life. yes mann was a horrible human being but the works he produced are landmarks

>>9603458
>i know what german authors have to offer
Yes, all individuals in the entire country are the same.

>>9603481
yep.
>>9603466
what you cannot see is no concern of mine.

>>9603458
I guess you also haven't read any of the greeks, in which case you are what is called a turbopleb.

Gravity's Rainbow

>>9603488
what i see in front of me is a mouth breathing dumbass who's too dumb for literature

>>9603492
greeks are great. i have the convenience of moral relativism, Mann knew he was a horrifying and disgusting faggot. besides are you implying that thomas mann is in the same realm as the greeks in ability?

>>9603498
i give a shit? stop getting so assblasted that i don't want to read your beloved pedophile. you're starting to sound like the nabokovoids.

>>9603392
>being a pleb and proud of it
>>9603407
The characters are rich and deep. The fact you don't read German books implies you aren't qualified to make a judgment. The philosophical motives are there, but there is also the very vivid scenery, the credible and relatable characters, only on top of it the philosophical journey you accompany the characters on.

>>9603522
yes yes, rich and deep like the loamy soil in your ass. thomas mann is fucking boring. just like all german writers other than grimmelhausen and goethe. they all have sticks up their asses. just like you.

>>9603511
I am saying that Mann captured the spirit and ideas of the pre-WW1 Europe just as well as Plato captured the spirit of the ancient world, in a very different way of course.

>>9603530
and i'm saying i wasted far too much time on Doctor Faustus and will never pick up a Mann book again.

>>9603534
i get that u want to throw a temper tantrum but can u at least go do it on a jordan peterson thread or something

>>9603541
quit whining. you must BE german. don't you have bigger fish to fry besides your failed literary tradition? gunther grass? puhleez

>>9603545
ok out of curiosity what would you consider to be some of the best books of the 20th century? can you name like 2 or 3 that belong to your top 10?

>>9603555
20th? hm. Petersburg, Ulysses, of course, The Recognitions, Grapes O Wrath, Man Without Qualities (haaaa jk) oh i dunno, the rest of Joyce, i don't read enough 20th century literature admittedly. There are works i'm inevitably forgetting, and some i simoly haven't read. Doesn't change my opinion on Germans at large.

>>9603407
I can tell you only read for plot.

>>9603577
you havent read any of these books

>>9603579
does that make you feel better, to think that? assblasted to the nth, good sir.

>>9603529
>ad hominem
>It's above my mental capacity, so it's boring to me
It's almost always a dead giveaway for below average Iq people to not being able to relate to northern high culture.

>>9603458
You're the one making something vulgar out of it. He wasn't a pedosexual.

>>9603600
ah, so that's why you think i dislike mann. because he's too smart for me. that may be. it's funny that you or whoever wanted to know my favorite lit from the 20th century, and immediately denied the possibility that i've read any of it simply because i dislike german literature at large and have pestered you gently over it. if it makes you feel better to make the assumption that my iq is 94, then do so. i'm not going to get mad at you.

>>9603618
In his diaries Thomas Mann made clear his own sexual interest in Klaus: ‘Am enraptured with Eissi,’ he wrote in 1920, when Klaus was 14 (Eissi was his nickname), ‘terribly handsome in his swimming trunks. Find it quite natural that I should fall in love with my son . . . It seems I am once and for all done with women? . . . Eissi was lying tanned and shirtless on his bed, reading; I was disconcerted.’ Later that year he ‘came upon Eissi totally nude and up to some nonsense by Golo’s bed’ and was ‘deeply struck by his radiant adolescent body; overwhelming’.


clearly a figment of my diseased mind, mann's preoccupation with boy ass.

>>9603624
I said he wasn't a pedosexual. Reading is hard for you, I know, but make an effort.

The Man without Qualities

>>9603643
yes yes, whatever. he wanted to fuck little boys, i'm sorry i didn't take precious time out of my day to correctly determine the age groups his sexual fixation resided in. my lord, what's it to you that Mann thought traps weren't gay?

>>9603657
Really
Stop
You're really embarrassing yourself now.

>>9603589
no you obviously never actually read any of those books

>>9603589
Its pretty clear you haven't, friend. I'd give up if I were you.

>>9603769
>>9603831
https://youtu.be/ah5gAkna3jI

>ITT: assblasted plebs can't believe a man could read books

>>9603657
>he wanted to fuck little boys
Sure, but he never did. You can't control what you desire, but you can decide to act on them or not. It's actually noble that he didn't Fuck them.
Also, an artists personal life should not detract from his art.
Do you also refuse to read hamsun because he gave his Nobel medal to Goebbels?

>>9603858
i didn't know that, neat. i gotta check him out.

stop ruining the thread T-T

>>9603885
okay. i'll leave you guys to it. i apologize.
the ineluctable modality of the visible endless human myriapod will forgive me.

>>9603648
This. Musil > Mann. And they both knew it.

Naphta is a nuisance.

>>9603365
Ulysses

>>9603423
PRETENTIOUS
R bullshit
E bullshit
T bullshit
E bullshit
N bullshit
T bullshit
I nullshit
O bullshit
U cullshit
S sullshit

Mount Analogue by Rene Daumal

The entire biology scene, goddamn.

>>9605613
Great taste, anon.
"The first step toward evil, toward lust and death, was doubtless taken when, as the result of a tickle by some unknown incursion, spirit increased in density for the first time, creating a pathologically rank growth of tissue that formed, half in pleasure, half in defense, as the prelude to matter, the transition from the immaterial to the material. This was creation's true Fall, its Original Sin.

>>9603392
>le German hating post

Fuck off back to >>>/his/

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>>9605970
>the lowercase picaro strikes again

>>9605965
If you happen to have an English copy with you, could you tell me how the part about the triangles of armpits and crotch, navel and nipples and mouth and eyes were translated? Just the armpits and crotch part.

>>9606161
I pirated it, but here you go.
"There the body stood, leaning charmingly, turning to smile at him, its radiant elbows spread wide in the dual symmetry of its limbs, of its corporeality. The night of its pubic region built a mystic triangle with the steaming pungent darkness of the armpits, just as the red epithelial mouth did with the eyes, or the red buds of the breast with the vertically elongated
navel."

>>9603365
It has a tremendous imbalance between narrative and essayistic prose (unlike the scarlet letter). Next!

>>9606399
see, that's what i said, and they got very angry.

>>9606399
>>9606406
>samefagging this hard

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>>9607080

>tfw you buy the magic mountain and wait for it all week to discover that it was a companion guide

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>>9607092

>>9607146
i'm simply us, you're point?

>>9603365
Ulysses

>>9607106
now your reading experience will be all the richer for it

grats, enjoy

A Norwegian in the Family

>>9607284
Ulysses is way more stylistically innovative but it barely has any ideas of its own. All the intellectuality in it comes from characters remembering stuff they'd read and forced references.

>>9607461
>t. hasn't read Ulysses and if he has, wasted his time doing so

>>9607461

>All the intellectuality in it comes from characters remembering stuff

You sound like quite the arbiter of intellectuality yourself.

Good thing we've got a genius like you here to tell it how it is.

>>9607663
remember pat reading people's lips and dealing in gossip because people spoke freely round a deaf man?

>>9607663
>>9607646
Why don't you point at an idea of his own that Joyce expressed in Ulysses besides that cucked Shakespeare theory?

>>9607646
care to spotlight some of those hot Ulyssean ideas for a brainlet like myself? Or maybe you'd refuse and call it spoonfeeding in hopes to not being discovered as a shitposting fradu. Up to you Anon.

How is Mann boring. I don't think you even need to analyze the philosophical aspects of his doorstoppers, they're also just really enjoyable fictional stories with great emotional dialogue and interesting characters.

>>9608281
>this hot salty butthurt
there are quite a few great ideas, one that stuck out at me was the synaesthetic analysis of the lives of the blind and the deaf, Pat was a bartender, who peddled in the gossip of others who were comfortable around him to speak of sensitive matters, he would read their lips. the paranoia inhabiting the mind of the man afraid of the blind stripling, the tapper, the tapper being used merely as an inebriant, rather than a way to get around by the blind, it rather serves to distract them from the very thoughts of others, their hearing having become so keen.

just a couple of really interesting ideas i remember taking away from the work, how he went into such depth with minor characters, made organic and living the things that are usually just set pieces. i don't care about your dickwaving, but if you genuinely think Joyce didn't have his own ideas, then the same can be said of anyone. everyone is derivative by your merit if that man was just some simple copycat with a knack for prose. it's frustrating to see people relegate such genius to the level of a pedophilic faggot german who bullshitted people into reading pseudo philosophical trash.

>>9608614
>it's frustrating to see people relegate such genius to the level of a pedophilic faggot german who bullshitted people into reading pseudo philosophical trash.

Goddammit you still haven't left the thread? Are you so dedicated to proving to others that Mann "bulshits them" into reading his works because you got bored reading one of his novels?

>>9603894
1 man versus all of /lit/. I respect your commitment, shine on you crazy diamond.

>>9609322
eh, i think there are a few others who are tired of german bullshit. russians did it all scads better. i let the germans rest somewhere near the french. god, the french. fucking horrible trash. except for rabelais.

>>9603365
Man I wish the second half was as comfy as the first.

>>9603407

That's not how you spell "I am incapable of appreciating philosophical deepness in a novel and that is why I only read marvel comic books from the 80s"

>>9610462
>i am incapable of conceding that germans are dry and boring regardless of whoever you are and whatever your tastes

look, germans are objectively bad, butnthey don't need dipshits like you defending them. they'd respect me, but your cocksucking would be looked at with derision and potentially, wedgies.

>>9605965
>from the immaterial to the material
because naked man-apes weren't concerned with fire, shelter, and food.

>>9603458
i agree desu. german poetry and fiction is so steeped in philosophy it's hard to appreciate as art in and of itself. i'd rather read chateaubriand or shakespeare, who write with psychology and philosophy, but with beauty and feeling as well.

>>9610809
my man.

>>9610809
It's the fucking balance!

>>9603385
I love you.

germs

Frankenstein, aka the best novel ever written

>>9608614
lel I'm pretty sure you got a severe case of the Curtains Were Blue, my guy. Nice try though.

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Answer the fucking question.

>>9612461
We did already. The man without qualities, as Mann fucking admitted so himself (and so did Musil, lol).

>>9612293
ahuh.

Tap blind walked tapping by the tap the curbstone tapping, tap by tap.
Cowley, he stunts himself with it; kind of drunkenness. Better give way only halfway the way of a man with a maid. Instance enthusiasts. All ears. Not lose a demisemiquaver. Eyes shut. Head nodding in time. Dotty. You daren’t budge. Thinking strictly prohibited. Always talking shop. Fiddlefaddle about notes.

>>9612851
no no, you're overthinking it, myself. it's been a long time since we've read it, and it turns out this is in relation to Cowley stunting himself with the song. unfortunately, you have been overthinking James Joyce. As incredible as that might seem.

>>9612851
You haven't even read past the Sirens chapter yet, have you?

>>9612950
as they say, btfo.

>>9610294
>Rabelais
Hey, I know you. You're that salty summertime autist who ruined the BOTNS thread in the same drawn out bitchy fashion as you did this one. I'm a big fan of your work, please talk some shit about W.G.Sebald, thanks.

>Ctrl f
>My diary desu
>No results
Th fuck, lit.

Ulysses

>>9608172
Holy frick just read what Eliot sad about Joyce. Yeah he waved his dick around but he could do it. He wrote in a diverse number of styles mimicking the great authors of the past just so he could show he would do it, elevated the common man into the Homeric schema, and was forward thinking in all of his work. What is beautiful about Ulysses and the modernists was that they took the past and made it new through recontextualizaion. Think the objective correlative.

>>9607461
I think you're just a degenerate.

>>9603495
Yes or infinite jest.

>>9603407
>>9603428
>>9603458
>>9603511
>>9603516
>>9603529
>>9603622
>>9603624
>>9603657
>>9603863
>>9603863
I honestly think that if more posters were like you, /lit/ would be a better place

>>9613345
and /lit/ would be infinitely better if we didnt have faggots like you

>>9607646
>>9607663
>>9613328
Wow, how sensitive you guys are when anyone pricks your golden cows. None of these are philosophical ideas in Ulysses, that guy is right.

He wrote in diverse styles? not philosophically deep by itself. He elevated the common man into the heroic? That could be a deep idea but he doesn't really explore it that seriously, he just makes it a joke. I've read Ulysses twice and loved it and still love it but it's just not that philosophically deep. Forward thinking in his works? made the past new? Objective correlative? You're just spouting out buzzwords.

>>9608614
I like that you wrecked Mann but using stylistic synesthesia is a beautiful/interesting prose technique, and making good, organic characters is just making good characters, not necessarily that philosophically deep.

>>9613366
you sound salty.

>>9613328
Again, you're mistaking literary style for intellectual/philosophical ideas. To put it this way: I don't think you can show me a quote from Ulysses that would make me think "Oh wow, this guy really understood the human condition" or "I definitely see what he was trying to say about the period he lived in".

>>9613367
I don't think its a joke. Bloom is lame but it also highlights the beauty of the common man and critiques the idiocracy of society. I do think it is a philosophical novel because while not offering a solid break from the pasts it instead reinterpreted the past in the context of the Modern era. I think it is also philosophical in the manner in which it deals with consciousness and the self. Also who cares if they are buzzwords. They apply to the discussion.

>>9613375
I think that is the whole point of the book. I'll look for my copy once I get home.

>>9613375
Off the top of my head however I think his critique of patriotism in the Cyclops incident and his analysis of thought and consciousness succeeds in those two criteria.

>>9613311
i know nothing of WG Sebald, so it should be quite easy.

>>9613345
hey man, thanks.
>>9613367
i suppose you're right, i would agree that nothing i spoke of Ulysses was necessarily deep in the sense that they're unique ideas, but perhaps the synthesis of them was what was so interesting to me. in retrospect, my favorite parts of say, portrait, were those that regarded style.

i suppose in the end i'll have to do a more thorough read through next time of Ulysses, and try to determine if he comes up with anything of that sort. though i fear if i do find it, i might not like Joyce as much.
>>9613079
i did, but i was quite high on drugs at the time, and i really need to go back through with a sober mind.

>>9603577
Grapes of Wrath is not intellectual. It's trash.
Especially compared to the other books you posted
This proves you haven't read any of those books

>>9613504
who said anything about it being intellectual? i don't agree that it's trash, but the question posed to me was "what were the best works of the 20th century", not "what were the most intellectual works of the 20th century". anyway, as i said to the other, if that makes you feel better, be my guest.

>>9613511
Even worse if you think that's one of the best books of the 20th century
I don't think I can name a "classic" with purpler prose than that rigamarole

>>9613524
i'm inclined to agree, but it was one of the few 20th century novels i've read that i could come up with at the time. anyway, it's really not all that important, is it? i'm not butthurt if you don't like steinbeck.

I saw this thread with 100+ comments and instantly knew there wouldn't be any actual discussion of the book, just a shit flinging mess of trolls and retards who don't read.

>>9613609
welcome!

>>9613524
oh, by the way, what would be some of your favorite 20th century books?

>>9613524
Steinbeck is a purple proser now? This is definitely one of the best shitposts of the last 20 minutes.