What did he mean by this?

she*

meme*

You aren't just you.
All the things that aren't you also make you you.
That's why you're always learning.

>>9589238
this is heidegger too damn

>>9589147
nobody knows.

People don't think it be like it is, but it do.

>>9589147
>>9589246
He's expanding on based Heraclitus.

>>9589238
so... plato.

>>9589293
kek

It's all about the Geist being itself imperfect, becomes itself-not and thus closer to becoming whole through the being of notself and becoming its wholeself and so on and so on.

>>9589238
>>9589246
>>9589314
yup... this is gonna be as painful as all the other threads

and no, I will not explain it to you, stupid faggot. the most I will do is point to the right answer if someone posts it or if anyone is decently warm. none of you deserve any better.

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>>9589314

Is it even possible to conceive of any thought without referencing Plato anyway?

>>9589324
explain it to me

>>9589324
You stupid faggot, the Hegelian dialectic is synthesis, aka the essential function of dialogical rhetoric. It extends Plato's dialectic, only Plato believed the dialogial function was to work toward finding the "truth" our souls glimpsed before inhabiting our mortal bodies, which inhibit us from the truth, whereas Hegel proposed that synthesis is a compromise while we work toward common understanding, which isn't particularly to say the "truth," but a simple social construct.

>>9589359
worthless whore, this is an extremely macro-level vague comparison between two very distant philosophers, not an explanation of anything other than your ignorance of both

>>9589324
t. pseud

>>9589375
Hey man, I was giving a quick rundown. Yes, they're distant and differnent, but their dialectics are the same, they just meet two different ends.

>>9589324
Why would anybody here need some pretentious anonymous faggot like you to explain Hegel to them so you can grandstand yourself when they can just go and read Kojève's 'Introduction to the reading of Hegel' and have a much more intelligent person explain Hegel's philosophy to them.

>>9589458
>Kojeve
don't make me kek, you pathetic waste

>>9589481
Check out this guy /lit/ he knows all the secrets of Hegel centuries worth of scholars do not, but he can't tell anyone.

Lmfao. People like this genuinely make me laugh out loud.

So there's like this spirit that has life of its own. It develops through history and intellectual understanding and culminates with freedom which is actually embodied in the contwmporary Prussian state for some reason. The previous sentences are a meme, but yeah its really complicated. Read Marx and the young hegelians before you read hegel t b h

>>9589539
I can tell you, but I won't. That's the thing. Because it's fun to watch you beg for it, little doggy.

I don't know any secrets, but I know the standard readings. I understand them and I could talk about them for pages. Most people, including yourself, haven't even bothered to read Kant, so I've found it's pretty much pointless.

>>9589359
YIKES

>>9589458
>Why would anybody here need some pretentious anonymous faggot like you to explain Hegel to them so you can grandstand yourself when they can just go and read Kojève's 'Introduction to the reading of Hegel' and have a much more intelligent person explain Hegel's philosophy to them.
Okay while there is no doubt Kojeve is smarter than anon he is not a good reader of Hegel. Read Hyppolite instead.

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>>9589299
In rhythm, it felt to me more like Platon's Parmenides dialogue than it did any of the fragments of Heraclitus' work.

>>9589596
Why the fuck is Needful Things so heavily annotated? It's ain't all that. Like, at all.

>>9589564
You can tell me where I'm, anon, I'd much prefer that.

>>9589733
Where I'm *wrong

I'm drunk.

>>9589661
It's fake. The original image is of Infinite Jest.

>>9589559
I understand Hegel also, which is why I don't care, and I'm not begging for your shitty slant on his philosophy. Hegel is not even that difficult to understand, the fact that you think you're special for understanding his work just makes me laugh, the entire point of Hegel's philosophy is diminished if you have someone explain it outright to you in something as simple as a few pages, I'm assuming you understand this also, you're just being a smug faggot about nothing all that complex in the first place.

>>9589983
I will murder you in your sleep, simple simon.

Hegel being incomprehensible is a meme and it's a direct result of his reception in the anglo world
Anyone that has read him knows that he frequently and artfully uses real-life examples to illustrate what he means, the most well-known being the flower one

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ITT: colossal fedora pseuds

So you want to read Hegel?
(I'll assume that if you know who Hegel is enough to want to read him, you have a basic understanding of modern philosophy)
>Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding—David Hume
>Critique of Pure Reason—Immanuel Kant (early modern texts version for the plebs out there)
>German Idealism—Frederick Beiser
>Phenomenology of Spirit
Congratulations! You've now read Hegel better than anyone on /lit/

>>9590108
this so fucking much

yes, there are pre-reqs to Hegel. no, most people won't do even the bare minimum before trying Hegel. I mean, in my experience, if you can understand the Copernican turn you've already done most of the work and Hegel is an afterthought.

>>9589323
underrated

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>>9589147

>>9589559
your series of posts are the gayest and most pathetic things I've seen on this website.

>>9589568
>he is not a good reader of Hegel
Eh, more like he intentionally developed an interpretation of Hegelian philosophy that functioned for his own ends, without being especially concerned for the strict philological truth of the matter.

>>9590201
explain Hegel then

>>9590201
>>9590478
the saga continues!

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a new classic for your bookshelves

>>9590108

>Scaring off noobs with list of books that will take years to read and comprehend.

C'mon. Let's not be pedants now... If someone wants to appreciate Hegel and gain insight from his work, they don't have to read the whole of The First Critique,... Yes, Kant helps, but it'd be better to start with

>Prolegomena to any Future Metaphysics.

A much smaller investment, time-wise. Otherwise, the internet encyclopedia of philosophy or stanford's plato website should give one a good idea of Kant's importance, as a reaction to Hume.

If one merely wants to have fun with Hegel without investing years, and possibly decades of mind-breaking thought, one should just read

>The Accessible Hegel---Michael Allen Fox
>On Art, Religion, Philosophy---Hegel
>Preface to The Phenomenology of Spirit
>Hegel's Three Encyclopedias (Logic/Mind/Nature)

Let's face it, if you REALLY want to understand Hegel, you've got at least one lifetime of work ahead of you. Same goes for Kant.

Is Plato, Aristotle, and Kant enough to prepare for Hegel?

>>9591511
You're actually retarded. YES, you have to read Kant. The synthetic method of the Critique is different from the analytic method of the Prolegonema. You are a pseud.

>>9591534
You'll be able to understand it, but you would fare better if you read some o his contemporaries. Also, reading Spinoza is probably more important than Plato for understanding Hegel. Honestly, just read Beiser as everyone else is suggesting, since he gives you the necessary historical context.

>>9591815

I may be a "pseud", but, judging by your language, you're extremely immature, and probably insecure about your intelligence. Might want to work on that.

Did Kant teach you to act this way?

Anyway, the going edition of the prolegomena (Cambridge) includes sections from the CPR. If you're suggesting that nobody should read Hegel until they have the CPR down pat, then they wouldn't be able to read Hegel for ~20 years. In fact, there would probably be less than 100 people in the U.S. capable of reading Hegel.

>>9592414
Jesus, what a strawman. First of all, a reading of the Critique is not at all the same thing as a mastery of the Critique. Reading sections of the CPR is orthogonal to understanding its importance to Hegel--more than anything, Hegel the post-Kantian German Idealists were interested in what critical philosophy as a whole means.

I do think that there are probably only a couple of hundred good readers of Hegel in the US. This is not a knock against Hegel. There are only a couple hundred good readers of any given philosopher.

>>9591534

The way I see it, Hegel is kind of a "last boss final form 1vs1" and rather than getting him fully from one reading, you should develop your thoughts upon his thoughts as your life goes on, not in a conclusive way. Of course this can be said of all philosophy, but Hegel is all-encompassing in a way many others actually aren't.

With that said, reading mainly Kant (though the Greeks are always welcome) will get you "ready" insofar as you can follow along his methods, but should not stop you from starting in parallel. Also, always do come back to it, and complement your readings of Hegel with Hume, Beiser and then basically every contemporary philosopher, since they all more or less draw reasonable amounts from him.

Do not consider studying Hegel (or however you may call it) a goal, but rather a process. He has much to say, and even then there is much yet to be said by yourself, to yourself, after coming into contact with his philosophy. Again, this is true of philosophy in general, but since our lifetimes are becoming increasingly compressed to fathom our history, I strongly recommend choosing Hegel in particular to take you along the process.

>>9592435

I can see the importance of thoroughly understanding Kant before approaching Hegel if one's planning on writing an academic dissertation on Hegel. But for the average, nonacademic reader, the goal is not to make publications or impress experts in the field. It's to gain insight and learn to live a more meaningful life. Now, based on my readings of Kant, there is very little he has to offer the everyday person that will help make their life more meaningful/understandable. What's good about Kant isn't original, and what's original isn't good. And Hume... Let's just say he's neurosis personified, Pretty much the original nihilist. Nietzsche's got nothing on him.

Hegel, on the other hand, has a little something for everyone. Because his thought is so far-reaching and interconnected, one can find relevance everywhere, both ideologically and practically.

Honestly, I don't think anyone should be worried about your opinion, because you've already outed yourself as an unpleasant and immature person. This seems to be a pretty common thing with dogmatic Kantians, and the man himself for that matter.

>No mention of Fichte and Schelling in relation to the work of Hegel

>>9592448
This.

>>9592576
You have revealed yourself as a hopeless pedant. Enjoy having "opinions" about philosophers.

>>9592414
>>9592576
I've never actually called ad hominem before, but you're really trying to shift focus to merits of the personalities of other posters and even of the philosophers rather than just throwing an insult in here and there.

>>9592448
Yup good post.

>>9589568
Hyppolite is better commentary?

>>9592923

Philosophy is worthless if it doesn't improve one's character. If there's a group of philosophers who claim to have a meaningful Ethics (=Greek for way of life), but consistently behave unethically, I'd say that there's something wrong with the system.

So then, at least in the case of ethics, ad hominem arguments can be valid. Why should we believe someone that their ethical system works if they themselves fail to put it into practice?

>>9592835

Pedant: a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning. Pretty much describes Kant in his language, his system, and his life. Really smart guy and everything, but boring as all heck, and reacting to the biggest nihilist in the history of Philosophy: Hume.

I maintain that Boehme, Spinoza, Fichte, Schelling, Plotinus, and even Meister Eckhart are far better introductions to Hegel than Kant.

>>9592980
I think it's really interesting how you are so focused on character, yet seem to be completely blind to how you come off as.
Maybe it's just your written personality, but I'd hazard to say (only having read a few of your brief comments) that you're the kind of guy that even polite people talk shit about once you leave the room.

>>9592938
Yes. Kojeve had a wildly uneven and often flatly wrong interpretation of Hegel, the same is not true of Hyppolite.

>>9593019
Yes, it's as if he views the entire history of philosophy were written solely so that he could discern which of them he found the most psychologically interesting. What a bore. And completely out of step with the philosophical predisposition of the German Idealist tradition.

>>9592923

I suppose I have been a little too hard on good ole' Kant. Bad experiences with him, bad experiences with Kantians, it all adds up over time. I'll probably make my way back to the Critique of Pure Reason eventually.

I do stand by my argument that studying "mysticism" and theology will get one further with Hegel than by studying Kantian rationalism.

Also that anyone interested in Hegel should grab a guide like Beiser's or Fox's and jump into the Encyclopedia at a point that looks interesting.

>>9593045
I've heard that this is true, but also that he had a lot of influence among french pomo thinkers, so that he's worth reading just for that.

>>9593050
Yes, Kojeve is certainly worth reading for his influence on 20th century French thought. Was only intending to suggest that he's not quite as useful for getting an accurate grip on Hegel himself.

>>9589559
This is like the brainlet version of internet tough guy

>>9593050

Hyppolite tends to paint Hegel as undermining individuality, and often tacitly as a proto-fascist. This attitude shows up pretty strongly in Deleuze &c. He's not perfect, but there's a lot one can learn from him.

Kojeve may be less accurate, but he's a lot more fun to read. He's really trying to DO something with Hegel, not merely comment on him and recover the original intention of his work.

>>9593065
Probbs a Marxist trying to poison discussion on Hegel. Or it's just an elitist.

>>9593072
I don't agree with this assessment of Hyppolite's interpretation. That may well be how Deleuze, Derrida and co. saw Hyppolite's Hegel, but Hyppolite argued that Hegel was more of a political radical than Marx in his notebooks on the two figures.

>>9593114
Just dug through a major pile of junk to get to my copy of "Logic and Existence" and notes.

Can't find any quotes to support my position at the moment. It may well have been a mistake on my part. Admittedly, I found reading Hyppolite more difficult than reading Hegel on his own.

Where can I find these notebooks?

>>9593145
They are titled Studies on Marx and Hegel. Beware, the publisher is sort of sketchy and the book was falling apart when I bought it from amazon. So I had to get it rebound. But a good volume to have.

I still need to read through Logic and Existence, but I have read the aforementioned Studies and his Genesis and Structure of the Phenomenology. Hyppolite is kind of a personal hero of mine because I am interested in Hegel and 20th century French thought.

>>9589147
all the words printed in the book are what he meant by the book

>>9589559
10/10 bait

>>9593156

I will check that out. I've been seeing it floating around in my recommendations box for a while now. It sounds like it'd be important. Thanks for reminding me!

I really like a lot of "porno" Frenchy stuff too... I always thought it was a shame though, how bad Deleuze's reading of Hegel was. Haven't read Derrida on Hegel, but I'd expect him to handle Hegel a lot better than Deleuze.

>>9593169
I agree, it is a shame. Dan Smith has a really good essay in his book on Deleuze that is intended to show how Hegel and Deleuze are not as different as Deleuze takes them to be. And funny you mention Derrida, my dissertation I am working on is Hegel/Derrida. TL;DR: Derrida's early reading of Hegel is quite bad, but later on, he becomes quite sympathetic. This later reading, though not robust, is quite good.

>>9590458
I love Kojeve and you clearly like him but this is just sugar coating his very personal and one-sided reading of Hegel

>>9590478
I could, but I won't. You don't deserve it.

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>>9589995
No it is not a meme. German idealism took over Europe and it was rejected both by continental and analytic for different reasons, with only one reason by some analytic being Hegel's inability to be clear.

Kant's Copernican revolution is the most abused and molested concept in all of philosophy.

>>9593224
This shit is hilarious

>>9593224

>please don't call by bluff
>please don't call by bluff
>please don't call by bluff

>>9589995
Hegel being incomprehensible is a demonstrable fact, given that only a few thousand people have read his opus cover-to-cover and they all completely disagree as to what he was talking about. And most of them changed their minds over time as to what he was talking abiut. And Hegel himself said nobody on earth comprehended his philosophy... which is the exact definition of "incomprehensible"

PSA: Pretty sure the troll on this thread is Kantbot, a well-known schmuck with serious mental health concerns. Strongly recommend ignoring him. Maybe then he'll go back to posting Trump memes on /pol/

>>9589327
This reads like one of Russel's set theory memes.
>Let set S be the set of all thoughts that do not reference Plato.
>Any element of S can be referred to as "a thought which does not reference plato."
>But this is impossible, as this form of reference makes said element Plato-related.
>Therefore S must be empty.
Or something like that.

>>9594619
who is kantbot in the thread