Is this true?

>>9512391
cant be sure

Depends on quality.

Is Bloodborne scarier than At the Mountain of Madness and It?

>>9512391
Fuck off retard

>>9512408
Bloodborne isn't a horror game

Neither a book nor a game has ever scared me like films can, even though I like books best

A film is an iceberg. A book is an iceberg. A game is an iceberg. A game is both a film and a book. A game is two icebergs.
Great image.

>>9512391
Fuck, disregard the file name, it isn't relevant.

>>9512413
>Bloodborne isn't a horror game

Except the creators never shut up about how their main inspiration is HP Lovecraft, one of the most, if not the most, famous horror authors in pop culture

File: qt pie.png (851KB, 1342x672px) Image search: [Google]

851KB, 1342x672px

>>9512391

for horror, yes, because you are directly interacting with the story

shock value decreases over time with each passing generation for cinema and literature requires an imagination

>>9512410
truth

>>9512391
I'd say it's more like "A Game" would be "A Film" with a bunch of monotonous filler inserted until it was the size of "A Book"

Kind of true. Video games are the current highest form of art. They combine: literature (storyline), film (cutscenes), art (the visuals of the game), architecture (structure of levels) and music all into one package while also providing interactivity and changeableness.

>>9513004
>video games are currently the highest art form
retarded bait homie try harder

>>9512419
Its horror-themed action, yes.

>>9513070
not an argument

>>9513070
It's true. They haven't achieved much of note as of yet, but literature is a subset of what's possible with video games. The best literature could be given as text in a video game.

>>9513004
>changeableness
topkek

>>9512413
You're not playing very good horror games then.

Assuming it's properly crafted, there's no reason a game shouldn't be scarier than a film, simply because of the fact you yourself are present and an active participant; rather than a viewer of events happening to someone else, you are simulated to have events happening to *you*.

>>9513004
>compares structure of levels with architecture

File: fuq.jpg (113KB, 1200x675px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 1200x675px

>>9513165

architects draw their buildings, so using a game as a 3d engine to visualize this image is relative to architecture however it is the architects job to know what materials are going to work in terms of structural stability with that image

such as my diary

>>9513004
>Combining art forms is good and not limiting

Newfag

>>9513082
Is the best literature just dialogue?

>>9512391
What game explores the human condition or attempts to be anything other than a set of entertaining tasks?

>>9513204
>Muh human condition

Newfag

>>9513204
The human condition is a set of unentertaining tasks.

File: 1450388164987.jpg (801KB, 927x1400px) Image search: [Google]

801KB, 927x1400px

>>9512391

All three of these mediums have the potential to reach true forms of beautiful, whole, and life changing art.

Videogames has never accomplished this is a real manner. Gamer's low standards have really held it back, but also there is a real dichotomy between different genres of videogames. You are either "art" or "entertainment" in the videogame medium. Nobody has come close to accomplishing true mastery of all elements of aesthetical craft in a single videogame. Videogames are either "story" games, or "art" games, or "gameplay" games. I think a true masterpiece in this medium is something that ties both gameplay, story, art, music, and everything else into a cohesive aesthetical theme, and does it well. The problem with this is it's extremely difficult, expensive, and time consuming.

Movies accomplish this occasionally but when it does it's pure heaven, purely moving. It can accomplish things through the visual medium that literature will never achieve.

Literature has accomplished this the most because it's existed the longest and it's cheap to put words on a paper.

>>9513230
the witness

>>9512391
What is "truth"?

File: 2398874138.jpg (307KB, 1920x1200px) Image search: [Google]

307KB, 1920x1200px

>a film is the visible tip of the iceberg
>a book is the submerged mass of the iceberg
>a game is the iceberg

Is it madness?

>>9512391
>a book is written to tell a story
>a film is made to make money
>a game is made by people who want to tell a story in order to make money

You can't consider something as art if the main reason it was created was to make profits, because if that's the case it's always designed with mass appeal and can't be the genuine creation of an artist

Seeing as how most video games are made exclusively for a profit, you can't consider them as art. However there are exceptions.

t. 4k+ total gaming hours on steam

>>9512391
It is ideally true, in a world where a real genius of the caliber of Shakespeare can just sit down and make a game, without having to care for money and without having to take any compromise.

Since this won't probably happen in our lifetime, it is fair to disregard videogame as high art, while still giving it dignity for the entertainment that can still provide.

>>9512391
Holy.....i want more.....

>>9513244
I don't think the witness counts. It might have a deep meaning but it's hidden behind a lot of filler gameplay. From what I've read/watched on it, I guess the meaning is that the search for meaning is basically pointless? Seems like another one of these games that points you towards something to do and then at the end of the experience it says "Oh haha, that thing was actually worthless the whole time," sort of like undertale or spec ops: the line. I've always found this to be a pretty weak way to convey meaning, although gamers seem to love it.

>>9513230
Okami takes a good crack at satisfying your criteria I guess?

>>9513426
That's because it's the only (and most obvious) way to critique gaming. Ironically the smartest thing one can say about a video game, is that it was pointless.

>>9513082
>The best literature could be given as text in a video game
You could print out source code for the game and put it into the book. Checkmate.

File: Untitled.png (349KB, 493x534px) Image search: [Google]

349KB, 493x534px

>>9512391

Can you call Dwarf Fortress art?

>>9513472
It's a video game, so no

>>9513473
But why cant a video game be art?

>>9513477
I never said that

>>9513482
>It's a video game, so no
hmm

>>9513472
From the makers of the lighthearted fantasy 'Game of Thrones' comes a new, darker series: WELCOME TO FUCKING BOATMURDERED

File: You.jpg (363KB, 1400x1900px) Image search: [Google]

363KB, 1400x1900px

>>9513492
You seem to have trouble differentiating reality from fiction. Jokes are largely based in hyperbole

>>9513507
I'm having a hard time trying to understand the meaning behind your words.
Yes I am autistic.

>>9512391
Cut the line in the Game in half, and it is correct.

File: Job.jpg (83KB, 680x383px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 680x383px

>>9512413
You've been reading the wrong books.

>>9513521
He's joking. I understand you not understanding, it's a pretty failed joke.

>>9513549
>failed joke
>STREET FIGHTER 2 ULTIMATE EDITION IS DA BEST FIGHTING SIM EVER MADE
>VIDEO GAMES ARE MORE REAL THAN REAL LIFE
Video games are a fucking joke and only manchildren take them seriously, which is exactly why they are not art.
>B-but muh E-sports
>B-but muh profit margins
LO-fucking-L

>>9513004
if something involved a bare minimum of art form doesnt make itself '' highest form of art''. There are barely any games with high quallity writing, filmography. The best games usually lack any set artistic value and shine on technical value with its engine, gameplay mechanics and the general things what makes games stand out. interactive movies like the last of us or uncharted crumble in comparion compared to dwarf fortress.

>>9513639
The only "art" video game is Metal Gear Solid 3, you tremendous faggot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp1D5bWzIwo

>>9513646
Barely.

>>9513639
Also good vid on what makes ''good'' games unique wich is freedom.
https://youtu.be/wvwlt4FqmS0

>>9512391
Cringe. Even adressing this is pathetic.

>>9512408
It's an action game with horror themes you knob.

>>9513230
>You are either "art" or "entertainment" in the videogame medium.

What are competitive games? Newfag

> Nobody has come close to accomplishing true mastery of all elements of aesthetical craft in a single videogame

"Craft", fucking newfag

>>9513666
Ironic

>>9513334
>You can't consider something as art if the main reason it was created was to make profits

That's just the nature of production these days. In the Renaissance making art was as much a business as making video games today. Newfag

>genuine creation of an artist

Hahahah newfag there is no such thing as genuine creation

>>9513639
What the fuck is with these newfag formalists. Hurr de-durr I'm new to art and I like medium specificity for no reason

>>9513652
>Can only act in accordance with what developers intended
>Freedom

Hurr I press the buttons and get the prize

>>9513702
>making art was as much a business as making video games
>there is no such thing as genuine creation

>newfag
>newfag
it's time to stop posting

>>9513743
Oh please. Go ahead and start your underage rant about how Undertale changed the possibilities of indie gaming.

>>9512413
What do you find scarier about a film than a game?

>>9512391
I remember the first time I heard about this meme, maybe 15 years ago. I laughed in the kid's face and assumed he was an outlier. Yet here we are.

@9513747
the fact you made a post like that in response to someone denying video games being art means you don't deserve a (You)

>>9513749
The fact that I can't stream it without getting arrested.

>>9513750
I guess you were wrong.

>>9513759
I assumed games were something people "grew out of." After dropping games they'd adopt more patrician interests and wouldn't push this meme, so my thought process went. I was wrong.

>>9513750
>>9513778
see, 15+ years ago, when you were laughing about the idea of adults playing games, a room full of corporate execs was watching footage of grown men voluntarily dressing up in costumes to see phantom menace. when the footage was over there was a long silence before somebody finally asked "how do we turn the entire world into this?"

>>9513743
It's true, google it newfag. Compagno was a business partnership newfag, they have tax records. Google workshop system newfag, google what a modello is newfag, it was presented to patrons (the people paying money for the art creation) for approval. Google literally any rudimentary art history newfag before commenting on art ever again

File: 13644143_10154323798429512_1546329408_n.gif (2MB, 600x338px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 600x338px

>>9513468

>>9513795
Lmao so true

File: sssssssss.jpg (146KB, 868x869px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 868x869px

>>9512391
Theoretically yes. But as it stands we are never likely to see full realization of the potential of videogames. Especially when considering how expensive it is to create modern high production value video games and looking at the direction triple-A games have taken over the years.

>>9513795
"Get me Zack Snyder on the phone".

File: 638831main_globe_east_2048.jpg (524KB, 2048x2048px) Image search: [Google]

524KB, 2048x2048px

>Anime / Senran Kagura

>>9512391
No. Tell me about the plot in soccer.

This thread reeks of underage /v/ posters

Wheres anime on that picture?

>>9514118
It's in there. It's just so insignificant you can't see it with the naked eye. It's like wanting to discuss Barney & Friends on the board of the Hugo Awards. People would just look at you weirdly as you masturbate to an 8yo girl astronaut demoness.

Really funny. Even if a video game served a higher purpose it wouldn't address it as well as a film or for sure a book.

>>9513004
Video games are shallow commercial products that exist to ingratiate children. Only recently has the medium evolved so to speak, but its foundational principles exist in service of "fun".and novelty. The pretension of anything more than that is when the medium is made ineffectual, IE walking simulators, long cutscenes, data entries etc.

I am not anti-videogames, some I think have literary value even. But they are extremely limited in the types of stories they can tell and even contradict themselves.

File: 1482219455321.jpg (55KB, 1080x1080px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 1080x1080px

>tfw you will never again be fifteen and overvalue the worth of video games

>>9514169
thank god

>>9514138

>Video games are shallow commercial products that exist to ingratiate children. Only recently has the medium evolved so to speak, but its foundational principles exist in service of "fun".and novelty. The pretension of anything more than that is when the medium is made ineffectual, IE walking simulators, long cutscenes, data entries etc.

This. I like games but very few are challenging on an intellectual level; even less are challenging in an intellectual way that's stimulating by having great art and design too (i.e. not RPGMaker games).

I was playing Nier: Automata recently and really struggled to get past the fact 99% of it is pure extreme action designed for no other purpose than to titillate the player. I expect to take something more from the game but ended up giving up on it because the gameplay is purely infantile button-mashing.

I actually admire the simplicity of those who don't even comprehend that fact and might instead be able to ignore it when critiquing its plot/story/world-building. I certainly couldn't.

>>9513004
where's the element in which video game as an art is considered its own form?

>>9513698
>i have no argument

>>9513802
true but the Renaissance days are over and human beings have gone far beyond that, back then they didn't have a true definition of 'Art', even the term 'aesthetics' didn't exist yet.
Art is no business no more anon

>>9514206
There are two arguments in the post newfag.

>>9514230
And now we have a definition of art that includes video games. Art excluding the commercial is not a true definition of art because it would contradict nearly all artistic practice. And yes art now is a business. Artists sell works to buyers.

>>9512391
most of the times. there are many shallow books and some deep films though.

>>9514235
not an argument newfag

>>9514235
>i have never 'argued' with anyone outside /v/

pathetic

>>9514297
Good contribution newfag.

>>9514303
not an argument newfag

>>9514307
I've said more about the topic at hand in this thread than you newfag,

>>9514297
i'm contributing shit to this shitty thread just as much as you do

>>9514312
>I've said more about the topic at hand in this (shitty) thread than you newfag

Good contribution newfag.

>>9514312
All that you have "said" was jejune fellating parochialism concerning your booboo games.

>thinking I was the person you replied to
newfag

>>9514246
just fucking read a book man

>>9514322
Wrong again newfag, learn to read. I'm saying neutral shit about art in general. I'm not a gamer.

>thinking I was the person you replied to
No? I just doubt you've said as much, newfag. I notice no one has actually argued with the points raised, just been shithead rattled newfags.

>>9514332
Any truly artistic self-published books you recommend or have they all been published for money?

>>9514321
It's shitty because of shitty newfags like you who just want to argue with people without saying anything. Here's a tip, newfag: learn a thing or two about what you want to talk about.

>>9514337
not an argument newfag

>>9514353
>learn a thing or two about what you want to talk about.

wow just fucking stop you're embarrassing yourself

>>9514371
Chill out newfag

>>9514377
Fuck off then

>>9514382
Please go back to /v/ or whatever cesspool you crawled out from

>>9514407
I come from /lit/ newfag, welcome to my board

>>9513230
Pseud underagefag detected. Better kill yourself before your mental illness spreads around.

>>9513561
>Video games are a fucking joke and only manchildren take them seriously, which is exactly why they are not art

Why

>these anons criticizing games and saying they don't even play games
Your ignorant opinion is worthless.

>>9514575
you don't need to taste shit to criticize its flavor

Inane comments

>>9513004
>art + art = twice the art

>>9512413
>t. Guy who's never played Amnesia TDD

>>9514643

That's a good game but it's not scary. In fact, the horror element is arguably where the game fails - it succeeds in espousing a central metaphor about how industrialization changed the nature of society as it entered the 20th century.

But, yeah, it's well worth mentioning as it's a good game that 95% of anons here won't have played it.

>>9514654
>it succeeds in espousing a central metaphor about how industrialization changed the nature of society as it entered the 20th century.

He's talking about the Dark Descent not A Machine for Pigs

>>9514661

Oh yeah, shit. TDD is a good horror.

>>9513701
Underrated

>>9514654
>t. Guy who played Amnesia during the day without headphones

>>9514681
Ignore this, just saw

>>9514668
>>9514661

Videogames are for children and manchildren only. They have no value, they exist merely as a way to waste one's time. In video games, all aspects of the game such as story and characters are subordinate to the entertaining aspect of games; no matter how developed the characters, if a game isn't playable enough the drooling retard with the controller in his hands will simply toss aside this game without devoting even a single thought to the characters. Truly, video games are nothing but a waste of time and an occupation of the senses: there is no reward in playing games, for one cannot gain knowledge or strength or good character by playing games. There is no merit.
And don't get me started on "hand-eye coordination": that is but a meme, well-developed hand-eye coordination doesn't mean dick in the real world.

Grow up, video game playing child. Stop wasting your time. Stop wasting your money in these video game stores, patronised by pimply, smelly teens and mothers buying "C.O.D." for their shrieking spawn. Stop believing gaming has value.

Grow up, you sack of shit. Become a man.

Books are for children and manchildren only. They have no value, they exist merely as a way to waste one's time. In books, all aspects of the game such as story and characters are subordinate to the entertaining aspect of books; no matter how developed the characters, if a book isn't relateable enough the drooling retard with the page in his hands will simply toss aside this book without devoting even a single thought to the characters. Truly, books are nothing but a waste of time and an occupation of the senses: there is no reward in reading stories, for one cannot gain knowledge or strength or good character by them. There is no merit.
And don't get me started on "better vocabulary": that is but a meme, a well-developed vocabulary doesn't mean dick in the real world.

Grow up, story-reading child. Stop wasting your time. Stop wasting your money in these stories, patronised by pimply, smelly teens and mothers buying "Harry Potter." for their shrieking spawn. Stop believing reading has value.

Grow up, you sack of shit. Become a man.

>>9514716
>/v/tard trying this hard

https://twitter.com/menangahela/status/861780686063226881

>>9514726
>/lit/tard in denial

>>9514747
>genuinely believing reading has no value
Truly the lowest of philistines.

>>9514692
>>9514716
>stop playing video games
>stop reading and writing
>stop watching movies
>stop listening to music
>stop masturbating
>stop browsing 4chan
>stop watching anime
>stop drinking out of plastic water bottles
WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO THEN?

>>9514768
>You fucking leave Harry Potter alone

>>9514771
>fucking strawman
>hah this will get him xD
So this is the power of /v/

>>9514781
All that reading and this was your best

>>9514771
>You fucking leave COD alone

these threads are always filled with tourists and underage kids from /v/. Video games are for retards.

>>9514793
>Can't 360 no scope

>>9514809
>Now to resume reading Stephen King

>>9512391
This sort of comparison is ridiculous.

>>9514821
proved his point

>>9514770
i think you know

>>9514202
I would say that the interaction between the consumer and the medium is the art of video games. It's all about game play. Games with good game play will outlive games that combine all the other things that the OP mentioned. See SM64 vs Skyrim

>>9514854
Nah, games just need gameplay to qualify as games. They don't need to have good gameplay to be good games

>>9514826
What's your favourite King novel?

>>9514870
Well sure, games with good story make good video games, but storytelling isn't an art that is exclusive to video games. The way games interact with the consumer is something that is unique to video games as an art form.

Video games are literally made to be disposable. The planned obsolescence of the industry makes sure of that.

The commercial nature and overall demographic that plays video games, make it so there is little chance of something of worth being made.

>>9514881
A whole lot of visual art has been interacting with its audience for 50 years. This precedent does help qualify video games as art but it's not unique.

>>9514874
Please prate on in denial that your "artform" is only aimed at manchildren like you

>>9514884
What about the games that aren't made to be disposable? Ones that don't have accessibility to children in mind? Ones that aren't made primarily for commercial interests?

>>9514821
>>9514874
Joke is that even King has more artistic merit than the best video game

>>9514892
Is that what you tell yourself to excuse your lack of mechanical skill? Turning pages sure is hard.

>>9514884
Only bad video games are made to be disposable. Movies are much more commercial than video games but good movies are still made. I will concede to the targeting of younger and less mature demographics being a barrier that needs to be overcome for games to be taken seriously, but games are very young and I suspect it won't be long before that happens.
>>9514888
Can you cite some examples of the visual art? This stuff would be cool to see. I obviously haven't seen the stuff but I doubt the focus of the art is the actual interaction, but rather uses interaction as a means to experience the visuals or sounds. Games are different because visuals/sound/storytelling are secondary to the actual interaction.
>>9514901
Either you haven't read any King or you haven't played any good video games.

>>9514901
Yeah you can hold a Stephen King novel in your hands so it must be better.

I love when the psueds on /lit/ come together to shit on vidya and roleplay as intellectuals even though they probably all play videogames all the time

>>9514692

>if a game isn't playable enough the drooling retard with the controller in his hands will simply toss aside this game without devoting even a single thought to the characters.

For what it's worth I agree with you but the approach your criticism takes could easily apply to the book and film industry too. Would you apply it then?

Personally, I think there's not enough games that cater to smart ideas without getting bogged down in the expectations of 'gamers' but I also know it's no true of all of them, just as it's not with books.

We kind of hit a good point a few years ago when major publishers like Microsoft actually put money into new and innovative products but it seems as if we're steadily going downhill again. It was a terrible thing when they started investing in VR games instead but I guess these things come in waves.

>>9514908
I don't have specific examples but here's a wiki article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_art

I think in video games they use interaction as a means to experience visuals and sounds too. Or underlying systems.

>>9514906
>muh eye-hand coordination

>>9514908

>Movies are much more commercial than video games but good movies are still made.

This, but also what's actually wrong with disposable products? There are tons of great movies released each year that basically just respond to the current zeitgeist. In a few years time, they'll seem pointless but it didn't mean they didn't serve a purpose at one point in time. And just so we're clear, I mean independent movies.

It's likely the same with books but I don't read enough contemporary literature to judge.

>>9514926
I bet it took you five tries to get that sentence right.

>>9514929
>>9514908

And to go further, this is when I truly start to believe /lit/ has wrongly convinced itself only the most elitist works are good. Everything else becomes shit under that logic and I don't believe that's anything but bad criticism.

>>9514901
These people shitting on King and lauding their vidyas are most likely crossboarders who have never read any of his works before and based their opinion of the "hivemind" like the dips they are

>>9513230
I agree with this

>>9514930
Textbook example of projection ladies and gentlemen

>>9514939
>Saying video games are art is 'lauding' them

You'd expect a bit of integrity out of a board that prides themselves on reading but /lit/ treats books the same way /v/ treats video games -- something to associate with and build a personal identity around

>>9514949
>Implying you read

>>9513230

Good post. I get the feeling that you think games throw too many elements in that are unnecessary and only there to abide by expectations and would be better if they were reeled in a bit. Hard to argue with.

Not that I love his games but I think Jonathan Blow is a good designer in that respect because he's very individually focused and doesn't seem to give two hoots whether people appreciate all of his ideas or not.

Though, his games are too cold for my liking

I have yet to see a convincing argument in this thread that does not involve asinine ad hominem and non-sequitur sophistry. Granted, some of the posters standing against my conviction do put in effort in their arguments,but the apoplexy of some of the people in this thread has rendered me unable to see the prospect of an actual discussion apropos this issue. Replying to this thread was a mistake to begin with judging by the repugnant number of 9gag meme arrows. So much for /lit/

>>9512391
Lol no

>>9513646
You mean Metal Gear Solid 2.

>>9513004
>changeableness.
Can video games learn me these words because I'm fucking laughing over here.

Video games are not even close to "lit". Sure, they can be fun, but the highest quality writing in a game is equal to a sub-standard film.

The only game with literary-tier writing is Undertale.

>>9512391
In terms of capability, sure. But in practice, fuck no.

Videogames have more in common with theme park rides than literature.

>>9514768
>genuinely believing he genuinely believes reading has no value

are you retarded?

>>9512391
Yes, Silent Hill 2 exists

>>9514654
fuckin nerd

File: 6wQhgUV.1.jpg (3MB, 3712x1712px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 3712x1712px

I don't know if this is relevant... I'm making a video game set in an open world Renaissance(Italian like) fantasy city but has no magic or monsters and shit like that. You play as a state inquisitor, basically the medieval secret police, and the goal of the game is ciphering through information and coming to conclusions which would effect the games story. I want the ending to reflect the players biases when it comes to information and how they perceive it. It's a mix of heavy RPG dialogue that actually matters allowing you to really roleplay and investigation. There is no markers or objectives, you are given a tip or note and from there you have to explore the city figuring it out.


Is anyone interested in this?

>>9517676
Are you actually developing a game or just ideaguying?

>>9517676
Seems interesting, but have you made progress?

>>9517680
I'm making the game, but since I'm making it on my own I'm using the Skyrim engine to make it because I don't have the time and money to not to use it.. But the game has a great base for the gameplay I'm going for, the devs just didn't know how to use it, I think it has a lot of potential

>>9517684
Yea, I just finished the layout of the map and the writing, now comes the programming slog

>>9517693
You're making a mod, not a game.
Actually you're not even making a mod, you're just having ideas for a mod and I seriously hope you have plenty of experience modding Skyrim because it ain't easy and will most likely take several years to finish depending on your scope and drive.

>>9517702
I've already developed a lot mods already, I'm pretty experienced with the Creation kit. Yes it's a mod, but I'm only using the very basic gameplay elements, the assets, quest structure, story I'm making on my own. I'm doing this by myself, and with the scope I'm going for it isn't possible for me to do on a separate game engine starting from scratch, I don't want to involve other people and money. And with the CK I can work pretty quick, if you know the hotkeys you can really get ahead

>>9517710
Cont. Basically what those big mods did like Nehrim but they wasted their resources and time on frivolous shit that doesn't effect the core gameplay.

as someone who plays a lot of vidya
god fuck no, there are a few outliers that might fit this description like SMAC but otherwise not even close

>>9517350
>i cant read
it's ok robert downie

I only like games with lolis. Call me a positivist if you want, but lolis are the undeniable truth.