I want to learn argumentation

Diaries of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.

I only have this book in Swedish:
http://www.bokus.com/bok/9789127118089/argumentationsanalys-fardigheter-for-kritiskt-tankande/

and these lectures on mp3:
https://estore.aynrand.org/p/90/introduction-to-logic-mp3-download

>>9502904
Le edgy xD

depends on domain and audience.
so what youre looking for is probably persuasion?
http://classicpersuasion.org/

>>9502959
Is that rhetoric? What I mean is argumentation theory I guess, which from what I understand is basically the same as the Trivium, which was (and is) the first part of a classical education, and it consists of grammar, logic and rhetoric. I guess in some kind of coherent system. It seems like a big subject but I'm looking for an introduction. Thanks for the link, will check it out.

>>9502975
there is no modern equivalent, since it all fragmented to different models of human nature. logic can only persuade a perfectly rational being and behavioralist memes can only persuade a gorilla mindset.

>>9502870
Surely you mean Rhethoric?

https://archive.org/details/barbaracelarent033237mbp

>>9503224
Not only. Also logic and grammar.

>argumentation
>noun
>the action or process of reasoning systematically in support of an idea, action, or theory.

>Argumentation theory, or argumentation, is the interdisciplinary study of how conclusions can be reached through logical reasoning; that is, claims based, soundly or not, on premises. It includes the arts and sciences of civil debate, dialogue, conversation, and persuasion. It studies rules of inference, logic, and procedural rules in both artificial and real world settings.[1]

>Argumentation includes debate and negotiation which are concerned with reaching mutually acceptable conclusions. It also encompasses eristic dialog, the branch of social debate in which victory over an opponent is the primary goal. This art and science is often the means by which people protect their beliefs or self-interests in rational dialogue, in common parlance, and during the process of arguing.

>Argumentation is used in law, for example in trials, in preparing an argument to be presented to a court, and in testing the validity of certain kinds of evidence. Also, argumentation scholars study the post hoc rationalizations by which organizational actors try to justify decisions they have made irrationally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory

Also see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts_education

These subjects are almost totally absent in public schools. Don't know if they ever were taught to the masses. But I believe they are taught in elite private schools to this day and they are a key part of the first few degrees of Freemasonry.

>>9503738
I don't know much about the subject but I would guess good classical hardpoints to hit would include:
Plato
Aristotle's Topics & Rhetoric
Classical Greek rhetoric (at least demosthenes, probably a "rhetoric reader" offering an overview of the famous rhetoricians would be easiest)
Cicero

I have these two books sitting on my computer. Haven't read them.

https://archive.org/details/principlesgener00fosdgoog

https://www.amazon.com/Trivium-Liberal-Logic-Grammar-Rhetoric-ebook/dp/B007XHIUJG/ref=mt_kindle?_encoding=UTF8&me=

Here are two books I've stumbled across while doing some brief research into this subject:

https://www.amazon.com/Metalogicon-Twelfth-Century-Defense-Logical-Trivium/dp/1589880587/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=MZD5CJWWVXY0YZV33H1N

https://www.amazon.com/Martianus-Capella-Liberal-Records-Civilization/dp/0231096364/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487756779&sr=8-1&keywords=Martianus+Capella+and+the+Seven+Liberal+Arts

The Seven Liberal Arts were originally taught in the Roman empire during Antiquity - it came down to the European Middle Ages through the Menippean satire De Nuptiis by Martianus Capella; this work has been translated as The Marriage of Philology and Mercury by William Harris Stahl.

Priscian, Aristotle and Cicero were the main sources for the Trivium, in grammar, logic and rhetoric respectively.

John of Salisbury wrote a defense of the Trivium called the Metalogicon which you might be interested in as an introduction to the field.

For Aristotelian logic, the Isagoge of Porphyry was the main introductory work to logic for centuries. From then on, you can either proceed directly to the Organon or study Medeival logic through the works of Roger Bacon and Lambert of Auxerre - both their introductory logical treatises has been translated by Thomas Maloney.

For rhetoric, the anonymous Rhetorica ad Herrenium by Pseudo-Cicero is fairly comprehensive.

I don't study classical grammar as I don't read Latin, having substituted this field for semiotics instead. Augustine is generally considered as the founder of this field. On Signs by Roger Bacon is another fine treatise.

There are more classical first hand sources than mentioned here, but it should give you a start.

When ready find a Toastmasters Club near you.

>>9503944
Thanks, and thanks to everyone else too.

>>9503953
I looked it up. Practicing public speaking? I'm uneducated (high school only), I haven't read a lot of books, I read slowly, I have a blue collar job, and I have no social life. I'm just someone who is interested in these subjects, but I don't really see why I would want to practice public speaking. Writing and debating online and in written form seems more suited to me. But I don't know.

>>9504006

Don't have to become an accomplished orator. But it's good to get comfortable with expressing your idea, in any format. You never know when you'll need to take advantage of an (rather common) opportunity, and it'll build character.

>>9502870

You certainly shouldn't try to do this, anon, there's no point.

>>9504078
why?