Did he really want to fuck his mom?

Don't you?

>>9498661
his mom?

>>9498659
You know, for every analytical essay about how Hamlet secretly wanted t fuck his mom, I bet there's at least one about how was secretly gay.

And that fact makes me mad.

>>9498664
>Is Hamlet Fat?
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/theater/2015/09/is_hamlet_fat_the_evidence_in_shakespeare_for_a_corpulent_prince_of_denmark.html

>>9498659

That depends of the actress that is playing her, if is a hot one or not.

>>9498664
hamlet and horatio tho

>>9498664
>bet there's at least one about how was secretly gay.

Well, Shakespeare was probably gay, considering all those love sonnets he wrote to men, so it makes sense.

There really are a lot of LGBT themes in Shakespeare, compared to the plays of most of his contemporaries

>>9498677
>>9500011

Can we get like one Shakespeare character for every disadvantaged minority group? I want English literature to be inclusive.

>>9500062
Sure, as soon as they produce them.

>>9500062

Sebastian and Antonio are clearly gay in Twelfth Night. Not to mention Viola's cross-dressing and remarks about Ophelia.

There are heaps of instances of gayness in Shakespeare. You'd have to be in denial to not see it.

>>9500078
The issue with LGBTQBBQ analysis is that they obfuscate the issue by pronouncing any strong theatrical dramatic friendship beyond the 20th century homosexual


For instance, I'd willing to accede that those guys are butt-lovers in 12th night, but the duo from Merchant of Venice? nah

>>9500078
Oh, additionally -

>Viola's cross-dressing

Cross-dressing women was a common trope/device back then, you can read Don Quixote and around half the female cast in that silly book appear as handsome boys at first.

Cervantes was a struggling play-wright, so it makes sense to call cross-dressing a common play device rather than a hidden call for gay shit

>>9500100
Yes I see your point. There is certainly a tendency in queer critical studies to claim everyone is gay or whatever.

But there certainly are a few plays in Shakespeare that do have gay implications. Not to mention that the Puritans hated Shakespeare for some of these same reasons, so there was definitely at least some perception of it at the time as well, even if puritans are also probably too-willing to read into things.

>>9500121
>Cross-dressing women was a common trope/device back then

Yes. But the fact remains that people seem to react amorously to her boyish appearance, and at the end just the tacked on explanation "oh you were actually a woman, that's why I had these awkward feelings. Fuck. Thank god."

Blackadder played off this in an episode from the third series.

>>9500141
Yes, also in Don Quixote. It's a common joke.

>>9500138
Well I mean...they were puritans. You have to realize that having two dudes going WE ARE THE BEST OF FRIENDS, O MY HEART IS BOUND TO THEE, THOU ART THE BEST OF ME!

that "queer studies" people seem to see things the same way as puritans do, is very amusing though!

>>9500150
"You have to realize that having two dudes going WE ARE THE BEST OF FRIENDS, O MY HEART IS BOUND TO THEE, THOU ART THE BEST OF ME! isn't a shakespeare exclusive trope in 16/17th century plays.

sorry, didn't finish the post


I'd also claim that "queer studies" are incredibly myopic on purpose, they analyze the play in a vacuum and purposely ignore other plays at the time, it's extraordinarily disingenuous.

>>9500150
There definitely seems to be a purposeful (on Shakespeare's part) hint that Sebastion and Antonio are into each other sexually. It's might just be for comic effect, but it's there.

Cross-dressing wasn't that common of a joke, and it functions differently in Quixote. The subtext isn't as overwhelmingly sexually oriented. And just because it's a joke doesn't take away from it's implications.

>>9500157
>WE ARE THE BEST OF FRIENDS, O MY HEART IS BOUND TO THEE, THOU ART THE BEST OF ME

It's far worse than this. By the end of the play you outright expect Antonio to try and hump Sebastian's leg. But Antonio sees Viola, dressed up, looking like exactly her brother, and he basically gets a hard on for her. Notably everyone gets married except for Antonio, who seems obsessed with Sebastian.

"I could not stay behind you. My desire,
More sharp than filèd steel, did spur me forth;
And not all love to see you, though so much
As might have drawn one to a longer voyage,
But jealousy what might befall your travel,
Being skill-less in these parts, which to a stranger,
Unguided and unfriended, often prove
Rough and unhospitable. My willing love,
The rather by these arguments of fear.
Set forth in your pursuit."

Sebastian doesn't really talk about Antonio the same way, in fact he speaks of him more in the way you'd expect a good buddy to. Antonio was friend-zoned hardcore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smMa38CZCSU

Remember when TV used to be more /lit/? Those were the days.

>>9500164
It being a joke does take away it's implications tho. That's why it's a joke

>>9500169
>>9500164
12th night is considered a comedy - and has been since Shakespeare's time - for a reason.

Only in the 21st century can you look at antonio as a serious gay character and not the butt of jokes

>>9500100

They are arguing like a man who should say, if there were an invisible cat in that empty chair, the chair would look empty; but the chair does look empty; therefore there is an invisible cat in it.

>>9500205
>It being a joke does take away it's implications tho. That's why it's a joke

>>9500207
>Only in the 21st century can you look at antonio as a serious gay character and not the butt of jokes

A joke gay character is still a gay character. This reasoning is retarded. The gayness basically defines him as a character, as there is little else to him.

I don't see why whether homosexuality being the butt of a joke is relevant.

>>9500207
"Comedy" in Shakespeare's time did not mean what it does now.

>>9500229
The absolute best any non "queer studies" academic can give you, is that Shakespeare is having fun with the dramatic "best friend" archetype by literally throwing a woman masquerading like her brother and him going gay for it

I still don't see anything "queer positive" or blah blah blah that these queer academics (lol) would give you

black adder wasn't making fun of shakespeare, black adder was doing a classic shakespearian joke

>>9500235
They are listed as comedies in Folio A though?

Obviously Shakespeare was talented enough to give more depth to any "comedy" with stylistic turns...but no, they were listed as comedies.

>>9500248
>black adder wasn't making fun of shakespeare, black adder was doing a classic shakespearian joke

No one suggest Blackadder was making fun of Shakespeare.

> the dramatic "best friend" archetype


"I can no longer stand behind you because my desire is sharp like filed steel, and is spurring me forward."

Is this the type of thing a best friend would say? Because it seems more like what a flaming faggot would say. Esp. Considering mentions of sharp steel in shakespeare are usually almost explicitly referring to penises.

I doubt this would not have gone over the audiences head at the time, either.

>I still don't see anything "queer positive" or blah blah blah that these queer academics (lol) would give you

No one mentioned "queer positive" though.

I bet you think Shakespeare's sonnets to that young boy weren't gay.

>>9500256
>comedies

Literally just meant that it had a happy ending, usually with a marriage.

>>9500260
>I doubt this would not have gone over the audiences head at the tim

Sorry I meant I doubt it WOULD have gone over the audience's head.

>>9500260
>Because it seems more like what a flaming faggot would say

that's the joke

>I bet you think Shakespeare's sonnets to that young boy weren't gay

i bet you ignore the rest of his sonnets to the dark lady too

>>9500266
>that's the joke

Yes. But this isn't a "best friend" archetype. It's a faggot archetype.

And being a joke is irrelevant. It very well might have been played for laughs (and there are certainly some homoerotic lines in the play that don't seem to be played for laughs"), but it doesn't change the fact that it's still gayness.

>>9500266
>i bet you ignore the rest of his sonnets to the dark lady too

What's the dark lady got to do with anything?

>>9500260
>could not stay behind
>voyage
>travel
>set forth in your pursuit

how fucking mentally ill are gays?

>>9500261
that and that no one died throughout the play