Achilles

He couldn't heel

For a hero he surely seemed to have a woman attitude towards disputes. Didn't help until his best friend died.

His boytoy got ICED

>>9433923
He thought he was a big guy.
Agamemnon disagreed.
He was.

>>9433923
He was the formation of Homer's inner egofag.

bitch nigga mentality tbqh

>>9433923
His inner turmoil was analogous to the human condition which is cuckery itself.

>>9433948
I wonder if you could translate the entire Iliad as a "psychological" analogy

Achilles is Ego
Hector is Superego
Helen is Id?

Tendonitus

>>9434032
Refer to this post, it's more of your level
>>9433979

>>9433923
Rage.

He grew up in a harem dressed as a woman named Pyrra. Probably fucked in the ass. Though he fucked bitches

He was above every other human and had no peer.

>>9434044
>cut off avenue for discussion before it even starts
Shut the fuck up, brainlet.

>>9434169
>Avenue of discussion
>Assigning structures of the psyche to characters like a first year undergrad pleb

LMAO

>>9433923
He got cucked.

>>9434339
What would you suggest instead? Go for it, I'm on the edge of my seat!

>>9434053
I want some slutty femboy Achille porn

>>9434349
I suggest you refer to this post
>>9433979

>>9434032

why does /lit/ shit on today's psychology but nonironically believe psychology from the 1800s?

>>9433923
Despite the Greeks recognizing the virtues and valor, they were fairly bad with acting it out.

The very first word of the Iliad is “RAGE.” The “RAGE” of Achilles when his honor is violated and his rightful prize and love is taken from him by his very own commander.

Right here we see Man versus State, as Achilles is the superior warrior, and as he takes all the risks, he ought get the reward. That is the Natural Law of Zeus, for after Achilles Natural Rights are violated and Achilles quits, Zeus sees to it that the Greeks begin to lose, as Zeus’s will was done.

Long before Atlas Shrugged in Rand’s cheap novel, Achilles quit the Greek army.

Homer shows that women who honor their commitments, like Penelope, lead to happy endings. Women who disregard their commitments, like Helen, lead to War.

Achilles quits for the sake of Honor, refuses to return when offered millions times more prizes, arguing that once honor is taken away, mere money/prizes cannot buy it back. He also reasons that all the wealth in the world is not worth him losing his life in an arena where his honor was taken away. When offered honors and awards, Achilles states, “I receive my honor from Zeus, not from corrupt Kings."

And too Achilles returns to fight for Honor, so as to avenge the death of his friend Patroculus, knowing full well he will die.

Simply put, Achilles is a man who lives and dies not for mere prizes, nor perks, nor tenure, nor titles, nor money, but for honor, and honor alone.

A few hundred years later, Socrates would invoke Achilles while facing death at his own trial. Socrates was offered perks and prizes and life if he would only recant his teachings that “Virtue does not come from money, but money and every lasting good of man derives form virtue.”

But then Socrates asked, “Would Achilles back down from battle if bribed by physical wealth?” Socrates reasoned he would be dishonoring the Great Achilles if he ever recanted his teachings.

>>9434628
>Socrates was offered perks and prizes and life if he would only recant his teachings that “Virtue does not come from money, but money and every lasting good of man derives form virtue.”
Doesn't that mean that since he'd been virtuous, he was deserving of and should take the money? Otherwise he just gets death and that means that virtue leads to death.

>>9434628
>copying and pasting shit reviews from shit reviewers
for what purpose?

His first problem was that his honor was violated when Agamemnon disgraced him by taking Briseis. His next problem was that he inadvertently caused his childhood friend's death. People saying he was just throwing a temper tantrum haven't read about the context of the poem at all.

He was like a god

>>9434586
19th century had a patrician aesthetic, so its nonsense mumbo jumbo is more fun.

File: Blake-Abel.jpg (2MB, 2100x1630px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2100x1630px

>>9434628
good post.

I would add that Achilles represents the ideal of the Greek warrior and the problematic nature inherent in it.

The attaining of kleos (greek for something like renown, eternal glory) is the ideal of the Greek warrior. This is achieved through combat prowess.

Achilles, in fulfilling this ideal, allows Homer to explore how problematic it is that this individualist, honor-based, warrior code really is.

He compares himself to a lion or wolf compared to Hector as sheep or man. This in being the ideal Greek hero he himself becomes something like an animal. He denies Hector's plea and thus becomes inhuman.

I don't think Homer necessarily glorifies or condemns war, but he definitely sees it as tragic. The kleos of one results from the death and shame of another. This is the tragedy of the Iliad, as everybody wilts under force of one kind or another.

>>9433923
Basically, the shitdick thought he was tough shit (he was, though his mother was a stupid cunt and didn't just drop him in the river) and allowed pride to overtake him, thus making him a huge bitch. Poster child for an le epic hero, really.

>When the cuck is actually the hero of the story.

Woah...

>>9435398

underrated

Childhood is siding with Hector. Adulthood is realizing Achilles was right.

>>9433923
Ego.

>>9435165
It was Peleo who didn't want Tetis to make him immortal

>>9435165
t. Hasn't read the Iliad

Nothing. Our values just differ from that of the Greeks of the time. We think pride is terrible unless tempered with humility, so Achilles is a big bitch asshole. For them, a man's pride and honor was everything so Achilles was the manliest of men.

File: 6a00d8341bffb053ef00e54f3cae4e8833-500wi.gif (123KB, 300x449px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 300x449px

>>9434636
To be virtuous unto death is a great thing. This is why we came to consider that it might be rewarded.

Hector is the real hero of the Iliad

>>9433923
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FwHjMexjf0

His mom didn't dip him right

>>9437056
Wrong. That's a tradition which is either not known to or specifically rejected by Homer. Read the Iliad.

>>9437064
It's a joke anon relax.

Also I'm reading Fagles' translation now which seems to be the most popular one around here.

>>9437066
That's a funny way of spelling Lattimore.

Achilles did nothing wrong
DEHUMANIZE YOURSELF AND FACE TO BLOODSHED

>>9437072
Fagles is better.

>>9437508

L
A
T
T I M O R E

>>9434628
Lol Plato sets up Socrates as a type of anti-achilles. He never gets angry, chooses to philosophize instead of pursue public honors which won't make him happy anyways, and goes out on his own terms instead of a bullshit technicality that the gods built into his faith. Socrates even argues in the Republic that the before forming a new regime we need to throw out the old myths and stories like the Illiad and the all of the unjust visions of virtue they propagate. Socrates is the new non-toxic and rational male hero intended to replace Achilles, not just ape him.

>>9437560
At last I see, Plato was truly the first feminist

>>9437560
I seem to recall a diologue in which Socrates argues that Odysseus is more noble than Achilles? In Ion I think?

>>9437508
Fagles is Rouse tier. It's a fucking abomination. The absolute worst readily available edition out there.

>>9437722
Have you read the Rieu translation? It's the one I read and I enjoyed it immensely, but I won't pretend that that means all that much.

>>9437722
>Staying true to the Greek.
>Literal translations.
>Like it matters.
>An oral poem.

>>9437683
Thats not a very hard argument to make senpai.

>>9437683
If he was truly noble he would have given Achilles' armour to Ajax. Big bugger was cheated out of his rightful spoils because Odysseus was better at speaking.

>>9437735
Fagles is offensive to read. I don't care about oral tradition or "staying true to the Greek". It reads like an ad hoc "modern kid getting into literature" edition. It's the very worst translation I've read, no art, no interest, and turns one of the greatest ancient works into an obvious translation of a great ancient work. It's a disruptive, nauseating experience. Every page is like taking fish bones out of your mouth.