Why are normies so hedonistic?

>>9408410
Everything in today's popular culture encourages hedonism. It shouldn't be surprising to see that there are effects of that.

>>9408413
Not to mention the marketing of that popular culture has been honed to a nearly exact science. Even if you make up your mind to resist it, the lure is pretty potent.

>>9408413
I think it varies from culture to culture.It's mostly the west that encourages it

it's the easiest and most rewarding route in the short term by far

>>9408419
Fair enough; I assumed that we were talking about western culture, because 98% of posts on /lit/ are about western literature.

I feel like I'm on the cusp of moving on from hedonism but I haven't had the final push. What is the best argument against it? If your answer involves religion, you're going to have to sell me on that too

>>9408429
I would read Stoic works before I read religious works desu senpai. Aurelius is an easy introduction, but if you want to get into the meat of it take a look at Epictetus.

>>9408429
catholicism

>>9408410
Modern society makes it so there is little reason to be more Apollonian than Dionysian.

Not about literature

When Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva was practicing the profound Prajñāpāramitā, he illuminated the Five Skandhas and saw that they were all empty, and crossed over all suffering and affliction.

“Śāriputra, form is not different from emptiness, and emptiness is not different from form. Form itself is emptiness, and emptiness itself is form. Sensation, conception, synthesis, and discrimination are also such as this. Śāriputra, all dharmas are empty: they are neither created nor destroyed, neither defiled nor pure, and they neither increase nor diminish. This is because in emptiness there is no form, sensation, conception, synthesis, or discrimination. There are no eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, or thoughts. There are no forms, sounds, scents, tastes, sensations, or dharmas. There is no field of vision and there is no realm of thoughts. There is no ignorance nor elimination of ignorance, even up to and including no old age and death, nor elimination of old age and death. There is no suffering, its accumulation, its elimination, or a path. There is no understanding and no attaining.

“Because there is no attainment, bodhisattvas rely on Prajñāpāramitā, and their minds have no obstructions. Since there are no obstructions, they have no fears. Because they are detached from backwards dream-thinking, their final result is Nirvāṇa. Because all buddhas of the past, present, and future rely on Prajñāpāramitā, they attain Anuttarā Samyaksaṃbodhi. Therefore, know that Prajñāpāramitā is a great spiritual mantra, a great brilliant mantra, an unsurpassed mantra, and an unequalled mantra. The Prajñāpāramitā Mantra is spoken because it can truly remove all afflictions. The mantra is spoken thusly:

gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā

He says while surrounded by his instant gratification

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HOW DO I STOP BROWSING THE INTERNET?

>>9408429
Look into practices of Theravada Buddhism. They are great self-improvement tools with clear set paths and provide some rudimentary ethical principles. No mysticism or faith required. Also highly compatible with many "practical philosophies".

>>9408558
smoke heroin

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>>9408562
Muh eastern "philosophy", weed lmao btw dood XD

>>9408571
is ironic shitposting the body without organs

>>9408558
the only way is death

>>9408413

You are confusing the symptom with the cause.

>>9408571
This was very insightful. Thanks.

late stage capitalism desu

>>9408601
It's a gradual progression, but the media and education system is propagating it.

>>9408601
You are pitifully unaware of Edward Bernays and his effect on capitalistic world, or 'the free world'.

>>9408652

You are pitifully unaware of basic psychology.

Propaganda only works if there is something to exploit or act upon. Blaming "propaganda"/etc is missing the point.

>>9408654
>Propaganda only works if there is something to exploit or act upon.
Which is the underdeveloped minds of children. How do you think there ever are generations that rise up in arms against the past? It's the shame market. They bully people into submission. Even in this board you'll find kids bullied into denying their own existence.

>>9408660

>Even in this board you'll find kids bullied into denying their own existence.

Examples.

>>9408663
>you are just neurons -brigade
>/r9k/
>/pol/ and their antithesis

>>9408642
JUDEN!, desu

>>9408417

Found that my little sister and kids her age just watch ads on youtube now. There are these whole channels devoted entirely to ads geared towards kids, and loads of them just grind out shitloads of hours watching ad after ad at a real young age.

It's an ad mans dream.
Giving her a tablet was a mistake.

By the same token I was starting to browse forums at her age and here I am. So who am I to talk.

>>9408668

Elaborate.

>>9408660
>muh cyberbullying on an anonymous memageboard
Just how fucking fragile are you? Realize muh feels are just the KHV beta numale neurons in your head trying to form a synthesis with the cuckoldry antithesis. Step it up and sort yourself out, bucko.

>>9408683
I was not blaming this board. I was blaming education and 'entertainment' industry. You know, the ones who abused guilt. The ones who make normies watch quite a few holocaust references throughout the week.
It's never about how the bolsheviks killed millions, either. Why not? The bolsheviks are a traditional enemy figure, whereas nazis are marketed as 'one of us', some sleeping agent within us.

>>9408690
>week
Probably true, but it was in my intentions to say 'year'.

>>9408682
>I'm just a bunch of neurons
>I'm just a part of this collective
>I'm just a noun invented by someone else last week
>I'm going to take all of this very seriously

>>9408690
>it's a cultural marxist librul brainwashing/indoctrination machine and ((((mainstream media)))) and da jooz and their made up lolocaust
Shit, sorry I didn't realize I as replying to a mentally challenged person. Perhaps to avoid this you should stick to your containment board?

>>9408706
>a cultural marxist librul
Who said that?

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Because we have no common cause to fight for

We have no great war
No quest for survival
No common goal

We just exist, without any real major threat to our race
So we look for other, more shallow causes
Fitness, fucking lots of people, money, etc, it's all escapism

>>9408711
>to our race
You mean like IRA?

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Explain to me why hedonism is wrong

>>9408718
No, I'd rather you keep explaining to yourself why it isn't.

>>9408722
Because ultimately, life is about maximizing ones own enjoyment

Being a good person is all fine, but if you're living falsely on morals you don't agree with you're not really living, are you?

>>9408724
>life is about maximizing ones own enjoyment
No, it's about maximizing ones height. Both goals are equally successful.
>falsely living on morals you don't agree with
I'm bound to my time.

>>9408730
Define height then

I'm all for building a career, improving yourself, working hard, etc.

But I'm also for enjoying yourself when the time is right
If you work 100% of the time you're not going to end up happy, but if you work 90% of the time and party hard 10% you won't look back with regret

>>9408419

Are you kidding? China and to a lesser extent India are embracing it as hard as the West.

Hedonistic people can often be MORE successful

I remember reading a study that correlated high sex drive with major business success

>>9408731
>Define height then
You're missing the point and the reference.

>>9408718
It isn't. It's just some bitter faggots desperately trying to rationalize their inability to create and support constant inputs of pleasure of varied nature through their supposedly newly obtained aversion to pleasure and general "deep patrishoonness".

Some people get a genuine kick out of virtuecucking or deconstructing their consciousness in some remote sangha, others don't. With some luck and skill you can just as well live a perfectly happy and meaningful hedonistic life.

>>9408733
>if you measre success by amount of potential pleasure you could receive at any given time then people seeking to maximize this amount are more successful
really activated my almonds there, lad

>>9408739
The point of the study was that people with a high sex drive have higher drive in other areas of life as well

They would sometimes deliberately stop having sex and channel the energy into insanely hard work and similar

I'm gonna see if I can find it

>>9408748
It's almost like hormones affect people in many ways.

>>9408410
Because our markets encourage it. It's easier and more profitable to sell short term and quickly fading highs/experiences. However in order to get people to buy into it en masse they must be conditioned to seek immediate pleasure over delayed gratification. So we see it everywhere in our culture.

There isn't a great evil conspiracy to destroy the West. It's simply greed and profiteering. For the same reasons we see globalism and the global elite pushing a dissolution of borders, nations, races and family values. If people can draw their identity from their extended family ( their nation ) then they won't be purchasing as much as or with as much fervor as those who base their identities off their patterns of consumption ( style of clothes, music they like etc ).

It's why we see a push to weaken family bonds, destroy the concept of belonging to a nation and create one mixed race. Meaningful identity is poor for the bottom line.

>>9408735
>well live a perfectly happy and meaningful hedonistic life.
yes this is what normies believes, until they get tired, or sick and they lose their shit about material things or ideas or insults.

>>9408773
>this is what normies believes, until they get tired, or sick and they lose their shit about material things or ideas or insults.
yes, this is what autismos believe, until they get smarter or less obstinate and they lose their shit about how much time they wasted on absolute wank dressed up as haughty ideals

just never stop convincing yourself dumb normies will pay for their silly life full of pleasures while you the great intellectual wisely chose to wallow in misery and self-hate

>>9408410
Whats wrong with hedonism?

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>>9408413
>>9408519
>>9408761
nice spooks. y'all dumb as fuck.

>>9408837
Note how those posts aren't necessarily saying one state of affairs is superior to the other. Nobody is spooked here, retard.

>>9408410
>why do ordinary people like having fun

It's an evolutionary imperative. Don't underestimate the importance of pleasure in evolution: a creature that enjoys living is strongly motivated to survive. Most higher mammals enjoy leisure activities of varying sophistication, from rolling in a mud bath to recreational sex.

>>9408410
because it feels good.

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>>9408410
/lit/ is a bunch of heathens too
post a jap in a swimsuit and they all go gaga for her

>>9408562
There a specific introduction I should look at?

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>>9409454

>>9408410
What makes you think this is a normie phenomenon? Is drinking and fucking 24/7 any more hedonistic than gaming and masturbating 24/7?

>>9408410
Sex stuff feels good. You should try it sometime.

>>9408410
I'm acutely aware that I will die one day so I try to live for pleasure more than anything else?

Not that hard to understand.

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>>9409602
Bump.

Pleasure isn't necessarily derived only from orgasm, guise. As long as the stimulation you're submitting yourself to is far greater than the minimum threshhold that keeps you from realizing you're bored and not being productive, that can be considered hedonistic.

>itt people confusing hedonism with enjoying recreation. Go ahead and look up the definition of hedonism and you'll see it's about excessive indulgence.. I mean really?

>>9409454
Guilty.
That's completely natural, though. I may find a qt asian girl stimulating, but that doesn't mean that my whole life revolves around a pursuit of pleasure.

>>9409631
but what does death have to do with that? If all you care about is pleasure why not just do heroin until you die?

>>9408562
>Look into practices of Theravada Buddhism.
Wich books? I'm noobish.

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>>9409723
>Googled Hedonism
>"Hedonism is a school of thought that argues that pleasure and happiness are the primary or most important intrinsic goods and the proper aim of human life.[1] A hedonist strives to maximize net pleasure (pleasure minus pain), but when finally gained of that pleasure, either through intrinsic or extrinsic goods, happiness remains stationary."
>Notices no mention of possible excessiveness

What could he mean by this?

>>9408748
The Sublimation Power

>>9408410
Normies aren't hedonistic because they're normies. Normies are normies because they're hedonistic. Nihlistic hedonists will almost always choose the shallow life.

normies are not hedonistic

normies don't follow an ethical code

normies are slaves to propaganda

>>9409817
>muh deeply examined lyfe
Any cookie cutter normie is more interesting and authentic than 90% of local autistic contrarian pseuds.

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>keeps unironically using the term normie
>thinks his thoughts on any topic matters

>>9408410
reminder that the NeoCons are right and liberal freedom/individualism creates a self destructive and hollow society.

>>9409876
>liberal freedom/individualism creates a self destructive and hollow society.
but this is exactly what neoconservatism has been peddling for almost three decades now.
hint: the fact that its prominent figures nominally subscribe to McChurch or McSynagogue variants doesn't exactly make them shining beacons of communitarian values. at core, they're still liberals (in both the economic and social senses)

>>9408410
Because they can be. As a non-normie I'm unable to attract beautiful women. For losers like me hedonism isn't even an option.

says the animeposter

>>9409842
Spoken like a true contrarian.

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>>9408410
Because when they reach a certain age they realise that their life so far has been pointless. They spent a massive amount of time and effort trying to be social individuals in order to obtain pleasure, yet they never actually enjoyed their lifes. In a primitive act of denial, they try to rationalise what they have done, so they are obligated to conclude that the meaning of life is pleasure.
They prefer to appeal to bad philosophy rather than admite their inferiority.

Hedonism is the philosophy of sensors everywhere

>>9408434
>stoicucks
augustine btfod those morons. stoicism is NOT christianity

>>9408429
no, you lazy and entitled vermin
wisdom cannot just be handed out like candy

>>9409454
i would sniff her yellow farts tbqh lad

>>9409876
clinging to opinions and ideas is part of hedonism

>>9408410
Not literature, fuck off

>>9408735
>meaningful
>hedonistic
Why would I snort coke with Chad and Stacy when I could read? I would rather join ISIS, it would be more meaningful.

You can find a balance between being an ascetic and a total hedonist slave you know.
There is nothing wrong with living life and subsequently getting tired of the material and pursuing deeper things.
I recommend reading Herman Hesse.

>>9408410
Because hedonism is a mean to expand the Capital. Liberalism can't function without mindless hedonist sheeps who craves for a consumerist lifestyle.

>>9408410
I am projecting here:
They don't have the same fear of rejection that you do.

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>>9409793

>school of that that argues that pleasure and happiness are the primary or most important intrinsic goods and the proper aim of human life.

>aim of your entire life
>not excessive

Hmm... really compels me to ponder further...

>>9411224
>bad philosophy

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>>9411224

Most people are hedonistic. Whether excessive tv/video games/drugs/sex. With the current culture of "being in the know/being in the now" a rapid fire of new things everyday just leads to constant consumption.

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>>9408761
>Because our markets encourage it. It's easier and more profitable to sell short term and quickly fading highs/experiences. However in order to get people to buy into it en masse they must be conditioned to seek immediate pleasure over delayed gratification. So we see it everywhere in our culture.
>There isn't a great evil conspiracy to destroy the West. It's simply greed and profiteering. For the same reasons we see globalism and the global elite pushing a dissolution of borders, nations, races and family values. If people can draw their identity from their extended family ( their nation ) then they won't be purchasing as much as or with as much fervor as those who base their identities off their patterns of consumption ( style of clothes, music they like etc ).
>It's why we see a push to weaken family bonds, destroy the concept of belonging to a nation and create one mixed race. Meaningful identity is poor for the bottom line.
This all deserves repeating.

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>you will never be part of a millennial sex cult priding yourselves on being special unicorns

why live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm6JnhPbHCQ

It's the (((Media)))

>>9414416
anon, watch to the end of the video. the dude is overcompensating with positivity to pretend that there isn't a gaping lack of meaning in his life. when i meet people like this in real life i get away from them immediately. by the end of the video he looks like he'll overdose or kill himself in the next five years. honestly youre better off than him

>>9414549
I was being a bit cheeky m8. It just pains me to see people like this be moderately successful (career/social wise) and don't have a single input into anything other than themselves and their pleasure

>>9408761
So... capitalism must be destroyed?

>>9414615
Huh, do you know any settings besides "capitalism, fuck yeah!!" and "destroy capitalism!"
Because it seems like you have a very binary appreciation of things. Get out more.

>>9414615
Capitalism must change

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Why are we so abnormal?

>>9408761
I agree the immediate plan is what you wrote, but the long term plan is actually a society with companies on top and consumers below, where companies don't suffer the drawbacks of capitalism, such as government intervention, cultural differences that make consumerism less efficient and have the stability and the recognition as true saviors of mankind by promoting eternal stability and a life that has "bettered" mankind without conflicts and eternal peace. Then we will truly be living the apex of post-modernism

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>103 posts
>ctrl+f "Jews"
>0 results

jews

>>9408429
Consider the data we have pertaining to income vs. happiness. All the data show that a persons happiness stops increasing once you reach an income where you don't stress about bills. At that point, happiness plateaus.

If hedonism is the ideal, happiness should continue to increase with income, as the wealthy can afford more pleasurable activities more often.

The reality is that we are not made happy by what we acquire, but by what we appreciate.

>>9408429
read nietzsche

>>9414666
The 'Jews being in control of everything' narrative is itself a globalist psyop to divert attention.

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>>9408410
because its worse regretting shit you didn't do than shit you did, imo. I hope I straggle into the graveyard missing every tooth.

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>>9414665

>>9408410

Define your meaning of hedonism. What do you classify as hedonistic? Anyone else is free to answer this as well. I want to know what all of you guys mean.

>>9411224
this. got to justify all that time put into a frat house
>>9408410
>implying some writers are not the same

>>9414637
I wouldn't be opposed to capitalism changing, as >>9414643 says, but I wonder if it can. I wonder if the promotion of a valueless monoculture isn't something baked into the system.

>>9415189
>I wonder if the promotion of a valueless monoculture isn't something baked into the system.
D'ya think? This is why systems don't work - you need a mind, not slavish subservience to a set of rules. Capitalism is a useful TOOL, not a master.

>Why are normies so hedonistic?
religion was taken out of schools

If you don't teach people what to do, they'll simply do whatever feels good at the time.

>>9415279
Well, I'm a Christian. I believe in a transcendent reality. To me, systems built by humans are necessarily incomplete. It seems you concur, though perhaps not for theist reasons. But what are we to do with those who DO see capitalism as a master? They've accumulated much wealth and power. Short of praying for their downfall, what's the plan?

>>9416461
>>9416461

An ultimatum: The Carrot or The Stick

The Stick is the weight of Time on an organization that is operating outside of its area of license. It cannot continue to defy laws it claims to support for very long--and it shows. The longer time goes on, the harder they push.

The Carrot is simple. Let them adopt the ideology of non-agression. It seems, however, pride really does goeth before the fall.

>>9416461
>downfall
That seems harsh. To use theistic language, they are walking in darkness: we don't want them to fall, we want them to repent and rise again and stop harming their fellow beings. Education is important; supporting those who 'do the right thing' is very important; and creating systems that support - not exploit - us. It seems to come down to two opposite ideologies: are we here to exploit others, or to help them?

because they're able to be. i'd love nothing more than to be able to have sex, party with good looking people, etc, nothing in the world would be more enjoyable than that, but i'm too ugly to achieve it.

Because they lack intuition, and forethought.

>>9414416
>hypernormies turned so normie that they turned abnormal

Because hedonists are extremely easy to exploit financially.

>>9408730
>life is about maximizing ones own enjoyment
>No, it's about maximizing ones height

>tfw 5'9"

>>9408761
Yep.

>>9419724

It took a whole thread but we have a rational answer!

No seriously, I agree and how was this conclusion not arrived at earlier?

>>9414615
Mutualism, man.

>>9419724
>>9420392
This also seems to me the only reasonable answer. Hedonism for the masses means the people at the top can keep making their share of wealth larger as everyone else squanders all theirs. The easy answer is for everyone to wake up and realize they're being taken advantage of, but nope, people just like to spend.

People like hedonism because feeling good feels good. I cannot believe that actually needs to be spelled out.

It's the best way to feel good, and there are lots of different pleasures to enjoy. Sure, there's the classic sex, drugs, and rock and roll, but that's a different pleasure from what you'd get from skydiving, which is in turn entirely different from the pleasures of raising a child or solving an interesting puzzle. Even you e/lit/ist faggots derive pleasure from circle jerking about how smart you are and the sense of belonging that comes from a community of like minded people, if you didn't you wouldn't be here. For all your raging against the normies, you're not much different.

I'd argue that most biological intelligences are inherently wired for Hedonism, pleasure is just too easy a motivator for early life and evolutionary artifacts often stick around long after they're not necessary anymore.

>>9420526
If we're wired for hedonism, don't you think we're also wired for ritualistic sacrifice? Even if we don't actually go to the extent of murdering people anymore, the entire idea is to sacrifice of what is valuable so that the future is better and that's what we continue to do. They're polar opposites, and arguably sacrifice has had just as significant a position in societies until recently.

If we're wired for hedonism, we're also wired for the inverse. The question is more why one prevails over another at any point in time.

>>9408410
>why do other people love life when I don't?

>>9420551
I probably misspoke when I said we were wired for Hedonism specifically. What I was getting at was more along the lines of just wanting to experience pleasure and avoid pain.

Pain correlates with death and generally an inability to pass on genes often enough for the association to stick at a biological level, and the inverse is true for pleasure, so it makes sense that after thousands of generations of evolution we'd inherit that as well.

I read through a bit more of the thread after posting and it looks to me like the arguments against hedonism are conflating it with consumerism, which seems a little flawed to me. The former is about seeking pleasure in any form and the latter is about purchasing things, in a capitalist society I see how they're related but there's an important distinction to make between the two. Consumerism is what happens as a result of the structure of society, but hedonism is more of what defines an individual's end goal/values. For the record, I'm not a huge fan of consumerism either.

As for the example of sacrifice, I think that's another aspect of social norms instead of an inherent drive. Like I said earlier about all types of pleasure being compatible with hedonism, there are some that require long term planning and the postponment of pleasure. The two are not mutually exclusive unless you're specifying that we're talking about impulse hedonism (short term pleasure, typically sex and drugs without thought for consequences) rather than rational hedonism (long term pleasure, having families, making/enjoying art, responsibly indulging in the short term stuff).

Because capitalism encourages consumption and competition.

>>9408718
Pain is not inherently bad.
Pleasure is not inherently good.

>>9420648
>>9420508

Consumerism =/= Hedonism

In a capitalist society they're related, but they definitely are not the same.

Also, what is it you think the rich and powerful do with their money? The largest part goes to maintaining wealth and even gaining more, but everything else goes towards gaining pleasure, which is exactly what hedonism is.

>>9420672
>In a capitalist society they're related, but they definitely are not the same.
No one said they are.

>>9408410
Is this a new meme?

>I can't enjoy things in life so fuck everyone who does

>>9419508
Abnormie? Sounds like a /fit/ sort of normie.