Has anyone done more damage to poetry as an art form than these two?

>>9394621
Explain how they have done damage.

>>9394621
yeah, everyone since them

>>9394621
women and nonwhites

>>9394627
BEING

F*CKING

WHITE

MALES

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Yes, those two over here.

>>9394621
Poe is shit, but no one takes him seriously except Frenchies.

Eliot is based though

>>9394627
Poe turned poetry into a perverted and grotesque carnival of the imagination while Eliot turned poetry into an allusion-off.

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>>9394621
people blame plath for the shitty confessional verse, but this dude is to blame (and unlike her a part of the problem)

>>9394652
>Poe turned poetry into a perverted and grotesque carnival of the imagination
The English Romantics did it first, Poe just cranked up the edginess to 11 for shock value.
>while Eliot turned poetry into an allusion-off.
That's more the fault of his bad imitators than himself.

>>9394643
how so ? comment ?

>>9394627
>Poe
Symbolism
>Eliot
Abstractions of unintersting abstractions etc

Funny that the two men responsible for ruining modern poetry were Americans.

>>9394672
>The English Romantics
No one is more directly connected to Symbolism than Poe imo
>That's more the fault of his bad imitators than himself.
Half the time the two are indistinguishable.

Eliot's pretty great. I never got the impression Poe's poetry is taken all that seriously.

>>9394621
"Oh! that my young life were a lasting dream!
My spirit not awakening, till the beam
Of an Eternity should bring the morrow.
Yes! tho' that long dream were of hopeless sorrow,
'Twere better than the cold reality
Of waking life, to him whose heart must be,
And hath been still, upon the lovely earth,
A chaos of deep passion, from his birth.
But should it be- that dream eternally
Continuing- as dreams have been to me
In my young boyhood- should it thus be given,
'Twere folly still to hope for higher Heaven.
For I have revell'd, when the sun was bright
I' the summer sky, in dreams of living light
And loveliness,- have left my very heart
In climes of my imagining, apart
From mine own home, with beings that have been
Of mine own thought- what more could I have seen?
'Twas once- and only once- and the wild hour
From my remembrance shall not pass- some power
Or spell had bound me- 'twas the chilly wind
Came o'er me in the night, and left behind
Its image on my spirit- or the moon
Shone on my slumbers in her lofty noon
Too coldly- or the stars- howe'er it was
That dream was as that night-wind- let it pass.
I have been happy, tho' in a dream.
I have been happy- and I love the theme:
Dreams! in their vivid coloring of life,
As in that fleeting, shadowy, misty strife
Of semblance with reality, which brings
To the delirious eye, more lovely things
Of Paradise and Love- and all our own!
Than young Hope in his sunniest hour hath known."
-He was red pilled. w.a.f.

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>>9395793
>No one is more directly connected to Symbolism than Poe
How about motherfucking Baudelaire?

>>9395822
>How about motherfucking Poe fanboy
Durr

>>9395790
Why? Because they killed it before any significant American poetry was made?

>Pound
Kek

>>9394621
Poe actually wrote several good poems, which is a feat that has so rarely been done in history that there's no way I could ever say his overall effect on poetry has been negative.

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>>9394627
>It is not a permanent necessity that poets should be interested in philosophy, or in any other subject. We can only say that it appears likely that poets in our civilization, as it exists at present, must be difficult. Our civilization comprehends great variety and complexity, and this variety and complexity, playing upon a refined sensibility, must produce various and complex results. The poet must become more and more comprehensive, more allusive, more indirect, in order to force, to dislocate if necessary, language into his meaning.

who started that poetry where you just go on stage, say anti-patriarchal things in crude language and everyone applauds?

it is an annoying trend in some art forms; there's no longer need for fancy form, it is enough to just clearly state a political position and boom, it is considered art

>>9394652
>Eliot turned poetry into an allusion-off.

You think Dante and Ovid and Homer arent chocablock with allusion? Aren't you just not well-read enough to make a thread?

>>9396562
Classical poetry has different types of standards. Mimesis is at the top. Isn't about allusion, you faggot. Learn to discern one from another.