Did German Idealism lead to the rise of the Nazis?

*Hegel misinterpreting Kant led to the rise of the Nazis

ftfy

>>9386484
elaborate

No. Hegel personally disdained German nationalism, and the Nazis disdained him back.

The idea that Hegel helped bolster Nazi ideology is a total unsubstantiated myth without any real backing. You can blame the politically-motivated charlatan Popper for that.

>>9386533
agree
hegel supported Prussianism which was (during his time) a decidedly anti-nationalist anti-german unity movement

>>9386467
Yes. Anyone's philosophy can be misinterpreted, but only Hegel's philosophy could be misinterpreted in a way that sends 9 million jews to the Judenbrutzler

>>9386536
I just find it ironic that Popper quoted a virulent nationalist accusing Hegel of being a Prussian, as in being anti-German nationalist, and using that to accuse Hegel of being a German nationalist.

Fuck, when Napoleon invaded the HRE, Hegel was celebrating. What kind of nationalist celebrates his country being invaded by a foreign power?

>>9386467
No, but it did lead to the modern conception of Nation-State. Fascism as a socio-economical entitity is directly descended from Hegel in it's rational froms and from romanticism in it's irrational trains for a greater merger.

>>9386550
if german idealism lead to fascism why did fascism come from italy instead of germany?

>>9386545
iirc it was popper that cited his use of the concept of "Volksgeist" as proof that he's a nationalist

>>9386550
> Fascism as a socio-economical entitity is directly descended from Hegel in it's rational froms and from romanticism in it's irrational trains
what

>>9386467
That's where you are wrong, boyo. Hegel is the Ur-SJW, the progenitor of the progressive ideology, as well as the creator of the famed hegelian dialectic. Leftists are all crazy about transgenderism due to the Hegelian Dialectic, they want to reach a synthesis between the thesis and the antithesis, which in their mind can only mean a Harrison Bergeron-like communist utopia where we are all genderless soy blobs and nobody is better than anybody else

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>>9386545
>What kind of nationalist celebrates his country being invaded by a foreign power?

The one who hates decentralized things like the
reactionary prince-ridden HRE and wants a modern nation centralized government for all his people. Actually Fiche and Hegel were nationalists to the core and most nationalism in Eastern Europe derives from their teachings. Prussia was the instrument and frame for the uniting of germans(the 3rd epoch is called the Germanic Age in his Philosophy of History). Hegel might have married conservatism and nationalism in his idea of the state, but that doesn't strip nationalism of it's progressive traits regarding organic unity of all people of a similar ethnic, instead of loyalty to out-dated princes.

This thread is just plain wrong, but that's because anglos can't understand the formation of the Nation-State in continental europe, you guys literally don't have it in your common knowledge.

>>9386550
Hegel rejected the notion of the nation-state.

His conception of a "nation" was as a cultural unity, not a institutional one. Hegel's saw the golden age of Greek culture when Greece was a disunified polity of city-states and the golden age of rome when it was entering a period of military decline.

>>9386553
Italy was the first fascist state, not where fascism originated. Fascism arose internationally in the aftermath of WWI.

>>9386556
That's only one of Popper's "criticisms". Hegel's conception of a "state" had nothing to do with nationhood. iirc Hegel's usage of "Volk" didn't have nationalist undertones; I don't have my resource material on hand.

>>9386562
youre dumb

>>9386562
literal word salad

>>9386562
>Hegelian Dialectic
>thesis
>antithesis
>synthesis

>>9386564
Hegel was a "Prussianist" when Prussia wasn't yet geared towards unifying Germany. Also, the organic unity of the general politic isn't based on nationhood.

And as I said, Hegel's conception of "nations" had nothing to do with the organization of political constitutions, but rather on the prevalence of thought and the arts.

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>>9386564
> The one who hates decentralized things like the
reactionary prince-ridden HRE and wants a modern nation centralized government for all his people.
nope, he was opposed to german unity

>>9386553
I don't understand what statement you are trying to make. German Idealism was extremely popular at the time. Italy was a shitty country with a shitty economy so they went with radical change first. Gentile(a theorist of fascism) before going into politics was a original Hegel scholar. Also both countries were newly formed, so it's obvious that they try their hands in fascism/nazism.

>>9386562
You are a simplistic idiot. Whatever talking was talking about was the whole of modernity, everything in it that would be different from eras of past. Everything in our modern after industrialisation world shares certain elements and mechanism, SJWs and alt-right are similar in some things and subjective in others, nazis and commies are similar in somethings and subjectively different in others. They all share the fact that they can only exist after modernisation.

>>9386578
>constitutions
i meant
>institutions

>>9386565
>Hegel rejected the notion of the nation-state.
It doesn't matter what he personally thinks, even he probably experienced nostalgia. He knew it was coming, just like it happened to the Greeks with Alexander. Also the moment you talk about institutions and bearucracy is the moment you allow the Nation-State to take over. Hegel was literally part of this nationalist-liberal elite at a certain point when was into education before becoming a lecturer in Berlin.

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>>9386588
>it doesn't matter what Hegel believed about his own philosophy
>what Hegel REALLY believed wasn't what he really believed

>>9386598
>only one person understood me qoute
>owl of Minervra quote

He knew didn't know shit factually about the future. It's shows itself only after the sun of History does down for the night.

>>9386467
>>9386484
>>9386533
>>9386536

Hegel's books were banned from universities during the Nazi goverment precisely because of what these anons are talking about. Kant was only allowed to be teached from Heidegger's lectures which never touch upon cosmopolitivism. So, no. Fichte might be more influential because his political proposition was nationalistic.

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>>9386608
That has nothing to do with whether or not Hegel was a nationalist or not. Let me repeat myself, to Hegel, the consciousness involved in the construction of the state had very little to do with nationhood as we know it. In various places throughout Hegel's work, Hegel has denounced nationalism.

Your form of argument is the cancer killing German Idealism. Instead of trying to accurately represent what the philosopher intended, interpret Hegel (or Kant, etc) through a specific lens (like Hegel being an atheist) because it played into a specific tendency that could be interpreted as representing the "true spirit" of Hegel's (or ANY German Idealist's) philosophy (usually saying through implication - that this argument implied this or that), ignoring all of the EXPLICIT statements saying otherwise.

>>9386544
It was 6 not 9

>>9386533
>The idea that Hegel helped bolster Nazi ideology is a total unsubstantiated myth without any real backing. You can blame the politically-motivated charlatan Popper for that.
Please elaborate.

>>9386711
Karl Popper included a chapter in the Open Society and its Enemies on Hegel, accusing Hegel of a shitload of incorrect assertions, with his textual basis being an abridged translation. His attack on Hegel, alongside most of his criticism in that book, are ridiculously superficial and ultimately politically motivated. The majority of negative misconceptions of Hegel come from there.

If you want a full account, you should read the Part 2 essays in Hegel and Legends, with especial emphasis upon the Walter Kaufmann essay:
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=68D449D13A2C108BBFDA88293FC43468

>>9386562 isn't serious, retards

>>9386533
Where did you get that from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger#Freiburg
He joined the NSDAP, "signed the Loyalty Oath of German Professors to Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist State" and genereally seemed to support the idea of National Socialism.

>When you realise that Hegel's philosophy is so overarchingly perfect it will always be misinterpreted by lesser minds, like the shadows of the forms

>>9386562
>due to the Hegelian Dialectic, they want to reach a synthesis between the thesis and the antithesis

Fallout new vegas is where I learned hegel, the post

kant, schopenhauer and nietzsche were much more influential. already in the second half of 19th century there was collective boredom of hegelian epigones and their endless blabber. the "Materialismusstreit" of 1850s was decided in favor of kant. in the beginning of 20 century it seems that schopenhauer was respected for his anticipation darwinism and psychoanalysis and nietzsche was almost like a father of the cult of the reactionary savage. hitler himself was said to be a fan of schopenhauer, although no specific event or statement illustrates a deeper connection.
neo-kantian academic circles were the usual cucks during weimar republic, but it didnt lead to a revival of hegelian antagonists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schmitt
>Schmitt remarked on 31 January 1933 that with Hitler's appointment, "one can say that 'Hegel died.'"
>Richard Wolin observes:
> it is Hegel qua philosopher of the "bureaucratic class" or Beamtenstaat that has been definitely surpassed with Hitler's triumph... this class of civil servants—which Hegel in the Rechtsphilosophie deems the "universal class"—represents an impermissible drag on the sovereignty of executive authority. For Schmitt... the very essence of the bureaucratic conduct of business is reverence for the norm, a standpoint that could not but exist in great tension with the doctrines of Carl Schmitt... Hegel had set an ignominious precedent by according this putative universal class a position of preeminence in his political thought, insofar as the primacy of the bureaucracy tends to diminish or supplant the prerogative of sovereign authority.

>>9387010

Kant was far worse when it came to bureaucracy and bureaucrats.

There's a reason why Nietzsche brands his entire philosophy as "philosophy for civil servants."

>>9386562
Kek I fucking died

Why do people always claim that Nietzsche -> Fascism is a gross misinterpretation?

Obviously if we take all of Nietzsches thought, he was no proto-fascist.

But fascists/Nazis liked aesthetics over ethics, and so did Nietzsche. Isn't that pretty big a thing to share?

>>9386953
Fuck me, just realised this is Heideggers Wiki not Hegels. You're right

>>9387290
WHat the fuck dude lmao

>>9386953
Yeah Martin was a proper nazi. He didn't even make any big apology after the war, though he did indicate quite strongly that he despised the holocaust stuff, at least.

He was a member for pretty long, acted in his position to advance nazi education, etc. And I mean he really worked for the Nazi ideas, though the higher officials didn't always like him - he was almost like "too radical a nazi" for them.

He had some pretty interesting educational ideas, actually - like he'd take the students for a march, to do some physical work and after that, discuss political matters together. Something I think some communists have also done.

I'll need to see if I can find an article describing all this, I heard it from a lecture myself. Heidegger during the nazi era is an interesting figure, even though I'm a radical leftist myself.

>>9387312
I listened to Wes Cecils lecture on Heidegger and a lot of the stuff you described is also mentioned there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8f3Y2KRfc
Really nice lectures for getting into certain Philosophers overall, sometimes the audience is annoying though

The nazis took root because the treaty of Versailles fucked Germany over and blaming Jews and fellating and glorifying one's past golden culture was an easy coping mechanism.

>>9387312
Is really funny about Heigger becaeuse he first despised National Socialism and then was forced to enter, but as the years go by he got convinved that it was the best for germany (read the black notebooks). In many first essays and pamphlets he talks bad at the Nazi party. (one example is The age of image of the world).

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>>9386467
God fucking damn it threads like this makes me hate /lit/ with all the power of life I have in me. If /lit/ was a little kid and it said something like this I would whip it with pic related and then rub my dick cheese all over its wounds. Everyone in this thread is so stupid that I am literally pulling my hair out right now. You were supposed to be the chosen ones you fucking walls, you were supposed to be the last bastion of intellectuality in this degenerate world and yet you still only post idiotic shit like this. You know what would have been a better question, one that I would have giggled and clapped at? Whether the Complete Works of Aristotle volume is better for rubbing your dick in than the Complete Works of Plato volume. Instead you post shit like this that is neither funny, nor insightful, nor respectful in any way towards our time and our lives even. Nobody will ever remember your shitty thread you fucking bottle dweller. It's as if you gave us a glimpse into death itself. FUCK.

>>9387446

>>9387262

>>9387446
Anon if you have problems with above average smegma accumulation you could try cleaning your genetalia with warm water and some mild lotion atleast twice a week. Smegma in itself is not harmful or bad, but too much can cause inflamation and irritation, so maybe that's something to think about. Stay safe anon, I'm sure somebody loves you :)