/nrx/ neoreaction general

>>9375762
>not picking the gentle introduction as the pic
>calling himself neoreactionary

>>9375768
The gentle introduction is intended to be just that, an introduction. For the real meat you have to dig deeeper.

To be commended for uncoupling right-wing ideas from NatSoc memes.

He leans too heavily on Americanism and modern liberalism, probably a Crypto-Marxist, like Nick Land he refuses to admit they're more influenced by Laruelle's Non-philosophy than Deleuze.

>>9375778
I read most of what he wrote - couldn't be bothered with the poetry, though. Honestly I think the best posts were the early ones dealing with the castes of the US.
>>9375795
>To be commended for uncoupling right-wing ideas from NatSoc memes.
And seperating the right-wing from neocons and whiggery in general for that matter.

>>9375802
I always thought that he came from the anarcho-capitalist/libertarian crowd

>>9375762
I don't get what the end goal is supposed to be, aside from putting the libs and minorities in their place, or whatever. Some of them really like Christianity, but capitalism tends to make religion fade away. Some of them really like ethnocentrism, but there's little evidence that ethnocentrism is optimal for capitalist accumulation. Some of them really like capitalism, but it tends to conflict with the social conservative values that they hold. But I'm not that opposed to the idea, I don't vote anyway so I would be fine with a non-democratic government provided it avoids doing retarded things.

the heirs of reactionary scifi thinkers like jerry pournelle. not sure what is so neo about it. techno-fudedalist paleo-con is about as new as the vietnam war.

>>9375820
He didn't, like almost everybody involved in the "Dark Enlightenment" he came from a Jewish or/and Marxist background.

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>>9375762
funny, I just started reading Moldbug's blog for the first time tonight OP

it was interesting. I'd already considered myself a "political reactionary" I suppose, but I found the over-arching historical narrative he provides in "open letter to open-minded progressives" a little hard to picture and discordant with my internal perspective, which I suppose is the expected effect, and makes sense given that regardless of how I perceive myself, I'd still have been inundated with "progressivism" my whole life - but alongside that there was a lot of pretty insightful stuff

I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with the narrative of "progress" moving in generally one direction, whether it comes from a progressive or reactionary perspective. there have been so many changes and variations even in the past few centuries, with strong general strends, but while I'm pessimistic about many sociopolitical/zeitgeist changes I'm not sure that most or all coalesce with each other either in causality or some other underlying theme. Moldbug is likely simplfying for convenience, but I have a bit of an aversion to holistic, explanatory historical narratives

His most appealing characteristic to me, something that I came to cherish independently a while ago, is his open-mindedness and relative lack of ideological prejudice and histrionics. Even as a Jew he is not averse to seriously grappling with anti-semitic belief systems, which I find admirable. I'm glad I've come to a similar position where, as a homo, I don't feel particularly threatened offended or "put off" value systems which condemn homosexual behaviour or by criticism of homosexuality/homosexuals

captcha: voltaire segesta

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pls no upscale /pol/

don't be plebbish enough to fall for this fucking meme ideology

The press has thrown many different insults at Yarvin, but I have yet to see anyone mainstream talk about how he thinks global warming is a hoax. You'd think that'd be one of the first things they'd hit him with.

Remember to not only read Moldbug and the people he recommends. The guy basically defines himself as a free-thinker, but loads of NRs never actually read any progressive books after they encounter him, which is a always a surefire way to have buggy thinking

http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-faq/

Take your time and read through this:
https://voegelinview.com/the-rise-of-the-reactionary/
https://voegelinview.com/rise-reactionary-part-ii/
https://voegelinview.com/rise-reactionary-part-iii/

One aspect I'm disappointed with is that they didn't advance the NRx equivalent of "Situationist prank" beyond heckling "Bill Clinton is a rapist".

Although thinking about how unsuccessful similar stunts have been throughout history perhaps that was for the best?

What is the connection between the New European Right and neoreactionaries?

>>9376033
Influenced by the same Marxists but other than that they've got completely different views and goals.

>>9376009
it's less of a meme than Marxism. That is, it has more reasonable priors

>>9376044
>Implying they aren't Right-Wing Marxists

>>9376044

The foundational texts are more reasonable but Marxists built up more sensible theory once they realised how dumb Marx had been. NeoReeees, not so much.

>>9376009
/pol/ is downscale NRx newfriend.

>>9376060
>built up more sensible theory

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>9376064

Bottom line is politics is the mindkiller and should be kept out of my /lit/.

>>9376060
So in other words you haven't actually read anything mentioned in this thread? or you would know >>9376049 Isn't a meme, the foundational texts and theories are literally popular French Marxists like Deleuze, Barthes and Reich right?

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Communism is as American as apple pie.

>>9376064
Not really. /pol/ is for whatever will get the darkies out of their countries and get them a loyal white gf.

>>9376079

Being Hegelian =/= being Marxist. I don't refer to non-leftists as Marxists because that's not the colloquial meaning, whatever MM thinks.

>nrx thread
>just some idiot trying to shoehorn Marxism into every post

*teleports out of thread*

>>9376089
MM doesn't think that, at mentioned earlier in the thread they're extremely shy about admitting their influences.

>>9376030
>a soup of snarky geek culture
>“Cultural Marxist” invasion of Hollywood and the computer games industry
>bolted to the Gnostic fantasy worlds of computer war-games

People really zero in on the "nerd" thing with this, don't they?

>>9376132
They're desperate, they know they've lost the cultural war and they won't back down, all they've got left is character assassination.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/03/jason-reza-jorjani-stony-brook-alt-right-arktos-continental-philosophy-modernity-enlightenment

>>9375762
Fuck off, NRx is dead.

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>>9376202
this

we're officially in the zone now

>>9376132
Do keep reading though, the second part deals with Moldbug and Land directly, the third with Nietzsche and Deleuze.

>>9376193
>lost the cultural war
getting memed on by nerds on the internet does not equate to relinquishing power of universities and the media anon

>>9376193
>link
What's funny is that I cannot think of anyone in what's left of the left (pun originally not intended) believing that going neo-Enlightenment is bad, and at the same time believing that it can happen.

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>>9376228
>He hasn't read the leaked the Shareblue files
That's literally what the DNC believe and the US military and the EU are researching and manipulating /pol/ to learn how to weaponize memes.

Also pic related to:
https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_11629155.html

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>>9376270
The Vault 7 leaks were hilarious, the CIA's memetic division was so outdated.

>>9376294
>the CIA's memetic division was so outdated.
I mean the bloody ISIS goatfuckers were on top of them on the topic of memetic warfare for years.

I think China could turn like half of all of us into New Confucians before they even notice any changes.

>>9376294
>jenkins! gimme the rundown on this hot new 4chan meme that's making the rounds

>s-sir, i... i don't get it, it's just a scene from the new batman film

>>9376310
otoh i wonder if any 'big' meme is a cia operation

here come dat boi gives me heavy psyop vibes

>>9376323
They definitely are experimenting to see how far can their internet equivalent of a message in a bottle go, how many people it can reach, etc.

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>>9376323
This one tries to advertise something as something else.

Deception by any other name.

>>9376202
>>9376207
Trump revived NRx when he sidelined Bannon and bombed Syria

>>9376470
We still don't know that, there's a real possibility that Assad and Putin were in cahoots with Trump.

>>9376470

>bombing Syria
>anything but a neoliberal move

the closest, pathetic things we have to NRx-like states is the fact that the homeowner association has more power than the entirety of people living in a community and that billions of people will become tech serfs because smartphones made them technologically illiterate

the realizations of Moldbugs ideals will be unspectacular and soul-crushing

>>9376484
>anything but a neoliberal move
that's the point dingbat
Trump weakened NRx because he supposedly showed the Cathedral as fragile, but capitulating to neoliberalism nullifies that

>>9376608

unless some Urbit fiefdom is about to release housing and defense contracts NRx has no plan

>>9376024
This one even the author admits he's wrong

>>9376030
This one has ok research, but the butthurt is too obvious. Take it easy breuh.

>>>/pol/

>>9376024
You gotta be careful around the SSC and LW cults senpai.

>>9376647
>NRx has no plan
You don't need a plan when you've dialled accelerationism up to 11, the future can sort itself out, the present-day is what's at risk.

>>9376884

>the future will become as dark, aristocratic, and fantastic as I wish it to be, automagically

>>9376080
That's actually somewhat true desu, everyone forgets about Eugene Debs.

>>9376346
I follow this page and it's seriously fucking me up, I often find myself staring at them for 10 minutes trying to find the hidden narrative.

Is this what the Pynchmemer was warning us against, /lit/?

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>>9375762
I recently started reading UR from the beginning. I'm up to June '07 now.

I think he's a great political theorist but his insights aren't particularly revolutionary, which he admits. His critique of progressivism as a form of crypto-christianity for instance, was done by Nietzsche over a hundred years earlier.

I especially enjoy his exchanges with Nick Szabo in the comment section though.

I also follow Land and Sailer's blogs regularly, which are always witty and insightful.

Overall, it's probably the most interesting movement in political philosophy at the moment, but like every school of thought, many of writers are sub par.

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>>9376951
Just chili out man, it's the North Pole

>>9375762
They are reacting against something that doesn't exist. We don't actually have a democracy, hence the idea that we should move away from democracy is silly. What we have is a hybrid of a representative republic with an oligarchy. There are multiple competing power centers of different varieties - financial concentrations, bureaucratic concentrations, various groups in the intelligence community, and of course also the official power groupings - various governments on the local, state, and federal level.

>>9377193
kek

>>9377193
It's almost like Moldbug doesn't talk about the caste system in the country.

>>9377193
Cont... the funny thing is, we actually could have almost a democracy, if people actually made sure to vote in every single possible election. But they don't. Yet the ballot box is actually a perfectly viable means of effecting change. If the people as a whole wanted to, they could vote in pretty much any system of government. They could amend the constitution. They could set up whatever they wanted. But people don't vote.

>>9377227
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

>>9376237
neo-enlightenment thinking would entail taking science seriously, which would prove many things that leftists hate to be scientifically correct.

>>9377227
I don't know man, Trump's attempting to fulfill some of his campaign promises and the deep state is doing everything in their power to prevent any change.

>>9377325
the Deep State isn't a monolithic entity, but is composed of various factions that infight with each other. Trump got plenty of backing from prominent people, especially from people in the overlap between the religious right and the military.

>>9376904
>automagically
No? If the proper systems are put in place, hence why they have sympathy towards heredity systems.

>>9376096
Why is that? I remember MM mentioning in his comment section that he reads "forgotten, esoteric historians." But yes, no mention of direct influence.

>>9377483
I've got my suspicions he actually knew the right-wing was preparing a explosive co-opting of postmodernism and didn't want to ruin the shock and awe aspect of it.

Do remember this guy was in contact with Bannon who had been planning to run a presidential campaign since at least 2011.

>>9377513
Also the military has been studying and utilizing Deleuze, Debord etc.

Guess who also has connections to the military?

>>9377334
but there are definitely factions of the deep state desperately trying to not only actively limit what trump does, but make his presidency look like an anomaly. the people constantly outputting russian rumors basically.

>>9377535
That's correct, but while the Russian rumors are probably overblown, there is an element of truth to it, in that imo there is some ideological convergence between the American religious right and the Russian religious right. You have Orthodoxy instead of Evangelical Protestantism, but they share ideas like anti-Muslim crusading, Western society becoming degenerate because of liberalism, an apocalyptic mindset, etc.

>>9377550
>there is some ideological convergence between the American religious right and the Russian religious right.

I think this specific connection is kind of a stretch (the officially atheist Soviet Union was not friendly to gays, thought the West was decadent, millennarian conception of history, etc), but I agree there is some convergence in terms of the desire to resist giving up sovereignty to a more global order, to display military strength as a means of protection (rather than the neocon "we're spreading democracy and freedom" idea), and the general focus on national, as opposed to global, security, something Putin managed to bring to the fore of national policy more successfully than anyone else.

>>9375762
>neoreaction
It's like yall wanna live in a capitalist dystopia ruled by computer nerds. Disgusting.

The future is right-wing socialism.

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would The Last Psychiatrist be considered nrx?

>>9376060
>Marxists built up more sensible theory once they realised how dumb Marx had been
No they didn't, it's literally assigning capitalism as the cause for everything that causes them anxiety. Marxism of a catalogue for the neuroses of Marxists than it is a real philosophy

>>9377523
Steve Bannon is apparently the rain man of nationalistic literature. Isn't the Israeli army supposedly utilizing D&G's war machine, so as to immobilize an out-State escape?

>>9377619
>a capitalist dystopia ruled by computer nerds
>right-wing socialism
In practice as opposed to in theory, wouldn't those be the same thing?

>>9376864

What's wrong with them?

>>9377679
no, right-wing socialism is a socially conservative government without free markets

they aren't similar at all

>>9376207
abortion is more likely to kill a baby than an unattended gun

>>9377718
abortion is probably the cruelest kind of murder going about, you literally force a human (YOUR human) into existence and then kill them out of convenience, this is a million times more evil than shooing up a school, and a billion times more common

>>9377713
I figure that in practice, a 'capitalist dystopia ruled by computer nerds' would be forced to give socialism to the peasant classes in order to avoid social upheaval. But true, the nerds probably wouldn't care about being socially conservative.

>>9377765
>>>/pol/

>>9377694
We had a thread about this yesterday. LessWrong is pretty much a cult, SSC isn't as bad, but has some of the same problems as LW.

>>9367121

>>9377776
>I figure that in practice, a 'capitalist dystopia ruled by computer nerds' would be forced to give socialism to the peasant classes in order to avoid social upheaval.
Not really. The peasant classes would not own much of anything. They would just be given transfer payments so that they can keep purchasing things.

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>>9376483
>there's a real possibility that Assad and Putin were in cahoots with Trump

>>9377930
1488 dimensional Jenga

the future is total capitalist acceleration to destroy humanity as fast as possible

>>9377978
Land pls go

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>>9377659
I wouldn't consider him NRx, but this guy's and Moldbug's ideas mesh together pretty well.

>>9378117
Pretty similar on my end anon. My plan is to head to south america (come from white latinos, so fluent) and earn programming dollars while setting up a life there. Given the differential between my income and the cost of living, I don't think it's at all unrealistic to think I could achieve the lifestyle of a landed noble within 10 years.

>>9375806
>Honestly I think the best posts were the early ones dealing with the castes of the US.

The "Brahmans" vs. "Townies" commentary is my favorite explanation of the American political system.

>>9376016
Maybe they know it's a fight they can't win.

>>9378317
link pls

>>9379239
http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/05/castes-of-united-states.html

>>9375762
Easily stressed people who prefer a quick decision leading to bad things (to others than themselves because obviously they wouldn't become victims), over a drawn-out debate and decision process that would likely prevent that bad outcome (for others and themselves).

>>9379475
nope

>>9379469
I don't know, It feels like the Indian caste system he uses isn't detailed enough, but he's definitely right about the "Brahmins" worshipping non-authentic asceticism.

wait you mean democracy isn't as good as the american propaganda and greek nostalgia says it is? well fuck might as well go full stalinist/fascist then!

>>9379783
The Greeks didn't practice anything remotely similar to modern democracy though.

>>9379787
>greek nostalgia
that's why i said greek nostalgia u god damn faggot, greek democracy was real nice cause all the workers were fucking slaves

>>9379783
>full stalinist/fascist

How do I know you haven't actually read this?

>>9379787
And even then it was a mess.

>>9379794
S-Sorry.

>>9379795
We've come to the point where anything right of Marx is fascist and anything above Bakunin is Stalinism.

>>9379795
well i just assumed that any rightwing blog these days is going to be alt-nazi, but you're right, that moldburg faggot is one of those dingdongs who thinks we should make rich dickheads like from elite business families like donald trump, jared kushner, etc into a new monarchy, lol

>>9379822

I actually read most NRx stuff as admitting to just how problematic is the problem of finding the right Leviathan is (though some of them show ignorance of Hobbes in spite of mirroring a tad of his dialogue). Most of them I think certainly wouldn't pick "the lesser evil" such as Trump or Jared or anyone else currently in the scene really, unless you believe /pol/ when they say Kushner is LARPing dominance over the US since 2011.

Some of the more technocracy inclined ones even claim that the contemporary Leviathan should be a board or council in a CEO-like manner ruling over every other ruling or something like that, and there's also the cyberpunk folks who believe we should allow AI to basically take over humanities tough decisions and optimize every populational conflict, preventing or stalling races to the bottom situations and such.

Of course, academic communists also dissociate from their bad autocrats by memeing the heck out of "lol it wasn't truly attempted yet". But Dark Enlightnment folks at least have optimization driven AI's and a weird mix of forward and retrograde thinking going for them, if you believe that stuff is ever going to kick off, that is.

>>9380131

>Please don't mind the weird English, I messed up bigtime

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Dont let it die

To many loser basic bitch Christian reactionaries who basically take the N out of NRx

Some Hestia stuff is great, moldbug and land are great. Their sphere is dead AF and they can't seem to handle race/JQ correctly, although they at least acknowledge it.

>>9377193
nrx will never recover

>>9377659

I fucking miss him and I'm a commie.

Dark Enlightenment is good in identifying the problems, but most of the authors fail to point to the right causes. Read Hoppe's Democracy: The God That Failed, austrian critiques of constitutional economics and public choice, historians like Bertrand de Jouvenel and especially Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, and elitist theorists like Gaetano Mosca and Carl Schmitt. With this basis you'll understand why democracy is the worst form of political decision-making system there is, getting worse as it is progressively allowed into constitutional guarantees of individual rights (which is a matter of time).

>>9381516
>Their sphere is dead AF
Of course it is, they didn't want to associate with each other any more, their theories and thoughts diverged so much maintaining a cohesive sphere became impossible.

>>9381589
What?

You can't get more well-read than The Dark Enlightenment, they're already similar with all of those works and hold anti-democratic opinions.

>>9378117
>>my only goal in life is to
>1. buy my land outright as much as possible.
>2. have a big family
>3. have a book for the family that outlines all that's needed to be outlined so my future family can be successful and healthy.
yes this sis what numales craving to be bourgeois want. the best part is that you think you are smart

This is a lot of bullshit being pulled mainly because *someone* couldn't hire the HB-2 programmer-slaves they wanted under Barry

Seriously. Most of these guys, if you strip away all of the reactionary posturing, are hyperglobalists who would see nothing wrong with letting George Soros or David Rockefeller buy Lubbock, Texas and hiring a private militia to genocide half the fighting-age residents and rule the other half as his personal fiefdom

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>>9375768

check this out

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>>9382822
>>9375768

Oops I forgot the link http://home.earthlink.net/~peter.a.taylor/moldbug.htm

>>9375762
>>9376044
>>9376066
every day this board disappoints me again

>>9376016

Give an honest crack at this lecture anon, and see if your views on Global Warming change. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5M1qtN62yk

There is a reason global warming got renamed to climate change btw.

>>9376024

Moldbug (under the name Boldmug) went into a huge and amazing debate against Scott Aaronson and LessWrong crowd about a month ago. You might like.

https://archive.is/HfXr7

https://archive.is/U7hFu

>>9377814

I absolutely agree with this. I used to be a LessWronger back in 2012. Then I saw how fucked up much of it was. AMA btw

>>9382839
Sorry if this board does not fulfill your needs as a marxist circlejerk man

>>9382882
How fucked up was it?

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>>9381589
>Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

>>9382906
is that too much to ask for?

>>9382990
I'm having trouble disagreeing with this desu senpai

>>9382882
Boldmug was great in Scott's blog, bug the other reactionaries unfortunately weren't nearly as impressive. However since scott or his supporters never seriously engaged in the debate (they just used straw men and ad hominems) I have to award Curtis a win by default.

Captcha: quaker white

>>9383397
Scott and the SSC community are not that great at debating, realistically. There's more to a debate than charts, graphs, and data, which is what Scott and the "rationalists" are best at tackling: critiquing bad data, or arguing with people who base their assumptions predominantly upon statistics which they falsely believe are on their side. Also, most people at SSC work within some type of hybrid utilitarian-liberal framework (in the sense that they believe there are some individual rights that the greater good cannot negate), and autistically struggle to step outside of that, which makes debating other points of view extremely difficult.

>>9377193
http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com.au/2007/04/formalist-manifesto-originally-posted.html

>Formalists attribute the success of Europe, Japan and the US after World War II not to democracy, but its absence. While retaining the symbolic structures of democracy, much as the Roman Principate retained the Senate, the postwar Western system has assigned almost all actual decision-making power to its civil servants and judges, who are "apolitical" and "nonpartisan," ie, nondemocratic.

>>9383481
It isn't limited to the SSC community, If you want to know why Scientists make horrible debaters/politicians you only have to watch Andrew Neil murder Joshua Silver.

>>9377193
you never ever read Moldbug.

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>>9382990
>Marxists and Nazis are closer than Democrats
holy shit

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Moldbug is still too Jewish to abandon all revolutionary thinking, he still creates an utopia inside his mind (Formalism! Neocameralism!) and desire political power to implement it. This kind of thinking is exactly the problem he identifies with democracy and liberalism.

Besides, he didn't read his Jouvenel correctly if he identifies absolute monarchy as the opposite of democracy.

>>9383481
imo Aaronson is uniquely bad. I mean the guy literally wanted to castrate himself in order to appease feminists, he's not entirely sane. Of course yarvin spanked him.

>>9385302
he's a cuck, and you can't win a debate while holding a wrong view (Democracy is good) while simultaneously being a cuck.

>>9385302
>the guy literally wanted to castrate himself in order to appease feminists
Wat

>>9385302
Link pls

>>9385684
>>9385818

http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2091#comment-326664

>>9385684
>>9385818
>>9386043

Scott Alexander made a good summary of how the batshit crazy feminists attacked Scott Aaronson for not being good enough of a cuck.

His autism must be of the scale for him to be able to handle the cognitive dissonance.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/

>>9386996
>When the /nrx/ propaganda thread works and convinces you liberalism is a mental illness

>>9382998
Yes, because you aren't allowed to offer anything to trade for it without going through the community organizer.

>>9386996
>My recurring fantasy, through this period, was to have been born a woman, or a gay man, or best of all, completely asexual, so that I could simply devote my life to math, like my hero Paul Erdös did. Anything, really, other than the curse of having been born a heterosexual male

The word 'cuck' is thrown around a lot these days...

I love this new trend of the alt right. Basically the young insecure men of 4chan have managed to organize themselves. Some of them give themselves some pretentious magical sounding name like 'Mencius Goldbug' and start to publish complete inane stuff on webblogs or twitter. Most of it is very thin criticisms of 'Marxism' (most of them have never read any Marxists works), or 'Neo-Marxism' which is according to them a version of Marxism which they hate more. I doubt any of these people have ever read Adorno or Marcuse and if they would, they'd probably agree with a lot of stuff in there. This 'alt right' has hardly read any political philosophy, and they basically learn all the stuff they know from Twitter and 4chan.

But I am trying to understand their worldview out of interest, and this is what I came up with so far.

>Western culture is dying because of the dying of the white race. Multiculturalism and 'globalism' (whatever they mean by that) have mixed cultures and races which made the West overall weak (weak in what? I have never really understood this). The Jews have a hidden agenda to push multiculturalism and thus destroy the white race for obscure reasons (seriously, what is their reason?). Also the Marxists are complicit in this. For the alt right Marxists are everyone who disagrees with you. Of course Marx, was a Jew and also part of the global conspiracy (before globalism that is). To reverse this trend it was a good idea to elect a multi billionaire celebrity who never talked shit about Jews in the first place (his daughter is converted to judaism). So white people should stay white because white culture is superior and now it is not or something like that.

Actually when I typed this out it made even less sense. I honestly do not understand what these alt rightos want and desu it's just an expression of ressentiment or of fear of a rapidly changing world. Overall a very shitty new political movement with some good comedic value sometimes (like the protest and Berkeley yesterday). I rate the alt right 6/10 mostly for the comedic value.

>>9387823
>alt right

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>>9387823
also let me quote some great insights from this mencius guy

>I'll tell you what the real emotion behind the Arab Spring was. Actually, Beavis can tell you better. "Fire is cool," said Beavis. Fire is indeed cool. Americans were bored and needed some better CNN. They wanted to see shit burn. Shit indeed burned, and is still burning. Which was cool. So they got what they wanted. Not too different from the crowd in the Colosseum, just less honest about how they satisfy their very simple chimp/human needs.
A very interesting sociological take on the complex events of the Arab spring

>It's an interesting exercise to try to construct a meaningful and objective prior distinction between an American communist and an American liberal of the mid-to-late 20th-century. For example, we could look for a partition of the social graph. Perhaps liberals hate communism so much that they never invite communists to their parties? Or fire them, for communist comments on Twitter? We do see some partition between the moderate and extreme right - but if anything, it's the extreme left that tends to socially exclude the moderate left. But not with enough consistency to make a good test.

What, for example, is a "progressive?" If the anti-communist liberal (as opposed to the anti-Communist, ie anti-Soviet, liberal - a very real phenomenon) was a real phenomenon, and viewed communists the same way he viewed Nazis, for their remarkably similar human rights offenses, we'd expect him to avoid communist political terminology. For much the same reason that, as cool as that glyph looks, you'll never ever see a swastika in an Apple ad.

Whereas actually, codewords like "progressive," "social justice," "change," etc, are shared across the Popular Front community for the entire 20th century. They are just as likely to be used by a Cheka cheerleader from the '20s, as a Clinton voter from the '90s.

>>9387858
Overall these guys know their way with language, they are compelling rethoricians. The content of their argumentation is very weak, and he doesn't even seem to grasp basic definitions of communism and liberalism. A joke.

>>9387823
>>9387858
meaningless

>>9387823
Wrong sphere, this isn't the Alt-right thread. We love Marxism here, Its a incredibly useful tool for any reactionary.

>>9387916
How is it useful for anything other than understanding the enemy? The entire theory is wrong.

>>9387927
How isn't it? using Marxist theory "we've" convinced the working class that the 1%/Upper class aren't to blame for their decreased standards of living but rather metropolitan elite in SanFran and New York.

>>9387823
>alt right
Who, specifically, are you referring to?

> Some of them give themselves some pretentious magical sounding name like 'Mencius Goldbug' and start to publish complete inane stuff on webblogs or twitter.

Moldbug isn't alt right and, though I haven't read much, his criticism seems to be of liberalism and progressivism, not marxism.
Everything else you wrote is just misrepresentation and smug ridicule. Read Moldbug.

>>9387823
>>9387858
>>9387864
>All this focus on marxism and communism
At least try to be a little more subtle.

>>9388050
Typical alt right reaction. I'm a conservative myself

>>9388252
I'm a progressive m8

>>9387972

> "we've" convinced the working class that the 1%/Upper class aren't to blame for their decreased standards of living but rather 1%/Upper class.

WEW

>>9387973
>Moldbug isn't alt right
Alt-Right (in common media drone parlance as the anon you're speaking with is won't to use) is anyone right of Mitt Romney.

So yes, Moldbug is "Alt-right". It's an absolutely garbage term because it describes absolutely nothing, but he is still part of it none the less.

>>9388400
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgigHeFyN5g
This is what most people consider to be the alt right. Lumping Moldbug in with them is just an attempt to discredit him.

>>9388400
it has a very precise meaning. the new right movements that challenge the conservative establishments. the heirs to the paleo-cons which Buckley marginalised, if you will. just like the new left was post-soviet left movements who challenged the liberal establishments after being morally discredited via Stalinism.

>>9388252
Conservacucks who've been doing nothing but losing ground to liberals for more than five decades should be just kicked out of politics altogether to show the liberal political circus for what it is. Do you realize that you're nothing but a punching bag that the liberals only tolerate because they know they'll always defeat you?

>>9388523
>Conservacucks
lol

I'm not an American though, so not sure who you are referring to with 'they'

>>9387823
This is a NRx thread, which is different than the alt-right. Everything you wrote is almost completely wrong. Really embarrassed yourself there.

>>9388378
Not an argument

>>9387823
>hey guize look how retarded I am lmao are you fuckin TROLLD yet xd

Where is Nick Land placed at?

>>9387858
>quotes Moldbug
>insightful

Bitch, peep dis hevy shieet:

>My balcony looks over Eureka Valley.

>In the evening, I get to watch the land turn the color of brick, and then aluminum.

>On the hills there are trees: eucalyptus and Monterey pine.

>And in the sandy bed, a housing development.

>Often, I catch my eyes, sliding easily - as if they rolled on bearings, or had been oiled - off the identical rows of houses of people, and back up to the more peculiar trees.

>This is called Progress:

>Once I was so hungry

>that I sunk my teeth

>through flaking paint into a cross-braced beam

>on the George Washington Bridge, plugged in like a tick

>to the electric blood of the earth

>and would not release till tranquilized by helicopter

>Now I wonder what works of engineers I did devour in some predatory sleep

>to fill my stomach so heavy with iron picks that were the bones of progress.

>Where's the Flatiron Building at these days?

u can't even.

>>9387823
>spending that much time on writing a post about a different political movement
I don't know what to say

>>9381516
>basically take the N out of NRx
I'd like to know what exactly is the R in NRx myself.

>I'm an atheist
If you wanted the disillusioned Republican audience one'd think you'd market yourselves as agnostics who presently can't bring themselves to believe, at the very least.
>I want global capitalism
How radical.
>I have a problem with universal human rights
As opposed to the post-colonial professors that claim they're a form of imperialism?
>I believe human nature is a thing
Like Chomsky's readership?
>I believe peace to be coincident with military victory
Does your name contain "Hussein" and "Obama"?
>I'm for transhumanism
Hi, where's the reactio-
>I'm a singularitarian neo-millenarianist
Wha-
>Fuck the press
"Fake news" was coined by the libs tho.
>I want a boardroom of shady necktie-wearing CEO types to manage the country
Did you vote Clinton?

From here it looks like these neo-"reactionaries" are one Harry Potter away from being American liberals.

>>9377791
every fucking time now you express a sensible opinion it's ">>>pol/ack kekekeke"

its fucking weird to kill a growing human being in your belly alright

I haven't had time to read Moldbug but if you're into that you should also read everything by Theodore Kaczynski starting with Industrial Society and It's Future.

I'd also highly recommend everything by Julius Evola starting with Revolt Against The Modern world and, if you can read french philosphy without falling asleep, The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times by Rene Guenon.

>>9391469
>if you can read french philosphy without falling asleep
You can't really avoid French philosophy, learning French is essentially required to become a neo-reactionary.

At least Maistre is translated into english.

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>>9387927
>>9388378
You should see how subversive /pol/ has become, at Berkeley yesterday a group of them dressed identically to the black-bloc Antifa, infiltrated the crowds and livestreamed the event from the enemy's perceptive.

Plus they carry around milk.

>>9391851
Any more info on this? Interested.

>>9391228
This. NRx is just neoliberal fundamentalism. It is (was?) something to watch as an example of how the neoliberal consensus is unraveling. NRx is essentially anti-liberal liberalism.

Recently Scott Aaronson, a computer scientist, had a blog post about trump or something and moldbug posted on the comments a lot. It was a stark contrast, Aaronson, some high IQer who is unpretentious and a clear talker, and moldbug, who writes in some roundabout appeal to analogy, pretentious way to make trivial points.

I know moldbug is a programmer so I see him as what happens when you get too lazy to do stem all the time and dive in to humanities / social sciences. You can make things as complicated as possible but it's all trivial shit and probably wrong.

He needs to realise that all those Historians and Political "Scientists" are bullshitters who are only taken seriously due to their pretension and university affiliations.

>>9393051
Funny, I got almost the opposite impression from the comments war. Moldbug made significant, albeit verbose, points and Scott refused to really engage in the discussion beyond trite one sentence responses.

>>9393256

I think Aaronson is a leftist cuck (who seems like a good guy, yet isn't redpilled even when he had feminists shove it down his throat) and you may be right as i don't remember what they said. But the contrast was so stark. It was like lit's idea of intelligence right up against an actual intelligent person.

People saying that NRx isn't bound up in the alt-right are just wrong. NRx thought was what helped shift 4chan from left to right. While the average person on pol probably hasn't read Moldbug, the people that memed them into their ideology (or the people that memed them) had.

I really liked Moldbug when I read him the first time but now I feel like he misses a lot about what's wrong with the world. I think his solution is some sort of monarchist long-term capitalism, with the idea that monarchs think long-term whereas current capitalists trade future gains for larger present gains. Maybe it would work, but I think there's an emptiness in large-scale capitalism that he doesn't address

>>9393296
t. constant contrarian

>>9393299
I guess you're basically right

>>9375762

What are Moldbugs objections to democracy? Is it a la Hoppe?

>pls I don't want to read all his work to find out

>>9393561
More or less.

>>9393568

Thanks

>>9393296
>NRx thought was what helped shift 4chan from left to right
We used to have a board that makes /pol/ look like Bernie before the NRx ball even started rolling m8

>>9393561

tl:dr:

- Actual political democracy is basically mob rule in its pure form or ever-increasing amounts of gimmedats in its managed form
- Our current system of government is oligarchical (which isn't necessarily bad) but cloaked with a (decaying) façade of legitimacy in the form of elections that serve as a rubberstamp for the ruling left-wing intellectual/finance/bureaucratic class
-This system is well into its sclerotic Brezhnev stage and rapidly breaking down
- The only real internal opposition is inarticulate prole-like right-wing populism; which is in turn intensely hated by the current ruling classes
- The end of these systems usually end up with orgies of bloodshed and warfare that are made worse by "demotic" (i.e. in some way legitimated by the "will of the people")

There's a lot more to his writings than just this though. I'd check out the Red Empire versus Blue Empire conflict in particular.

>>9387916
>I want to be eaten

>>9376031
try
>elected trump

You know Nick Land's political U-turn absolutely makes sense, how isn't Deleuze a guide to running a authoritarianship? his theory on masochism is basically how to control the aristocracy 101 then goes on to explain how awesome drills were to control thought and behaviour.

>>9375884
>being content with self loathing
>wanting to be the bitch of a systemic ideology that hates you

are right wingers just projecting when they call people cucks? that's the most willingly submissive thing I've ever read.

what a bunch of fucking nerds

What does being a Neo-Reactionary even mean?

How are you different to Reactionaries? Are you part of the Alt-Right/Alt-Lite? Are you Fascists/National Socialists? Civic, Cultural or Ethno Nationalist?

What are you guys?

>>9394478

twitter shitposting and apocalyptic suggestions anytime any news occurs ever

>>9394478
Roll back constitutionalism/democracy/enlightenment/humanism and build a caste system where IT guys are on top as brahmans while the rest are ground into dust beneath their heels.

Smash the social order created by filthy lucre and all the mammon worshiping ideology from ancap to commie and build a new world of technocratic manorialism.

>>9394512

Dystopia? Hurray?

>>9393296
NRx thought was a precursor to the alt-right but they are really so different that they cant be meaningfully grouped together which is what some people are trying to do ITT. Just consider that main alt-right thought is fundamentally populist, not very compatible with NRx.

>>9394678
Agreed. I'd love to hear more about how NRx is anti-liberalism liberalism though

>>9391851
Do they just organize LARP battles at Berkley now?

>>9394478
There isn't any organized neo-reactionary movement, perhaps the only core principle that most neo-reactionaries share is anti-egalitarianism.

>>9375841
>techno-fudedalist paleo-con
Pretty good description actually

>>9394691
So would I, I'm not sure what exactly is meant by this.

>>9376346
Doublethink-esque. Renaming, reclassifying, and dumbing things down.

It's all over tumblr

>>9377659
I miss him so much.

I kept hoping in vain that TLP would return for the 2016 election, but he never did. Never. I'd love to have seen his thoughts on all this.

>>9394512
HAHA fucking STEM brainlets

>>9392792
Not /pol/ but a couple of youtubers did something similar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnq3RrCYG54

>>9376084
This. I've talked to people from /pol/, and the only common element I've found is that they just want a place to be left alone, for them and their descendants.

>>9394413
You misinterpreted me. I'm not self-loathing, if anything I'm quite the homo supremacist :^)
I'm just secure ;)) enough not to feel threatened by hearing and entertaining ideas that don't coalesce neatly with my identity. Being too emotionally attached to things like that just tires you out, really. If I decide to willingly grapple with Catholic theology without being immediately put off because it's ethics condemn some aspect of my lifestyle, I'm more liberated than if I were to viciously defend every aspect of my being from critical ideas. I wouldn't want to limit myself from that experience just because there's a box ticked in my head labelled "gay" which means I have to experience revulsion at things A, B, and C. Reminder that this isn't a political thing, even though it seems so just because I'm using the most politically charged examples like homosexuality or Jewishness, I'd like to foster this kind of attitude toward everything.

The self is a spook. Embrace the creative nothing.

>>9394959
Where do I meet /pol/?

>>9375806
>And seperating the right-wing from neocons and whiggery in general for that matter.
That was Buchanan's territory 20 years before Moldbug and crew.

>>9395104
i agree with everything you said except the self (ego) is by definition the only non-spook thing mah boy.

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>>9394478

>>9395693
Exactly, but a lot of the things we define as part of "the self" are, ironically, self-limiting spooks. I should have been more clear on that point.

>>9395182
Most of /pol/ doesn't happen on /pol/, they've got like hundreds of different channels on Discord and IRC, no clue If any of them are still public though. (Bump)

>>9379098
>>9382842
The climate change section of the Gentle Introduction is pretty great - he talks about his mother having worked for Joseph Romm.

>>9391851
>yesterday a group of them dressed identically to the black-bloc Antifa
Oh, for fucks sake! The german nazis and antifas have had a embarassingly similar style for years.

Including the cloth bags.

>>9394706
>Do they just organize LARP battles at Berkley now?
The nazis are in constant LARP-mode.

That's why you should shoot the nazis, as a waring to the commie bastards fouling up academia. Can't yell "magic bolt" when someone shot you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ04mfAY2BU

Why does the alt-right like Derrida so much?

>>9391469
pleb. Jacques Ellul and Ivan Illich are the true starting points.

>>9398517
>people living in post-modernity happen to agree with a post-modern philosopher
you don't say

I consider myself a progressive, but I think we should stop with the one man one vote thing.
Let's have weighted voting. Every citizen is required to pass several tests every 4 years ; his results will give a weight to his vote from 0 to 1. Nobody will know what his vote is worth.
Tests are 2 standard logic tests and a standardized culture test (by which I mean knowledge of the current issues of your country on economics, societal and geopolitical issues).

It's an extremely coherent and intelligent justification for a literal cyberpunk dystopia

I personally really enjoy this aspect of it, but as an ideology I wouldn't say that I agree with it

>>9400415
This policy would result in the exclusion of the poor and uneducated from the system, leaving decisions to be made by the wealthy and educated. Unfortunately the wealthy/educated seem to be more liberal than the poor and might ruin the country more.

>>9395542
Any more info on this? Is this pat Buchanan?

>>9400415
That's a terrible system, It's essentially punishing people for making smart decisions instead of wasting their life in Academia accomplishing nothing. I shouldn't have to make how easily it could be manipulated either.

>>9400415
Voting should be limited to

>property owners
or
>Men
>Married women, widows or (at-fault) divorced mothers with at least two children
>25+ or Older

>>9395104
Nice, edgy.

>>9395104
The homo supremacist bit reminded me of something. Have you ever heard of aresislord.org? It's like a Greco-Roman masculinity manifesto by a guy you could only describe as homo supremacist. Really interesting stuff, but almost impossible to read because of his super weird formatting.

Guys, where do I start with Nick Land? Should I just dive into his blog or some of his works or what? His stuff seems rather interesting. Can someone give me a quick rundown?

>>9401315
Fanged Noumena

>>9401359
>>9401315
Actually I'd recommend starting with reading though "Ccru: Writings 1997-2003" then Fanged Noumena.

>>9401005
Yeah, just read Pat Buchanan and Peter Brimelow, they both have websites and are a good place to start. Check out VDare. They've been anti-immigration for 20 years. In many ways, Donald Trump was Buchanan's Revenge. His final victory, even though he could never really mobilize his philosophy into a political powerhouse, coincidence had it that a Billionaire businessman took up his cause. There is some overlap between the Paleoconservative right and this new "alt-right" right now.

>>9401368
I started reading through this and was utterly confused when it had nothing to do with NRx. His earlier stuff is ~out there~

>>9402073
No, trust me, his earlier stuff is definitely connected to his NRx stuff. Earlier Land was a imitation of Deleuze with the Obscurantism Derrida but the core concepts of his Dark Enlightment is there.

Land still references his old stuff all the time on his blog, Land's god is a Lovecraftian godlike-AI sending back the Necronomicon through manipulation of mathematics.

Basically he went from life-affirming techno-progressivist to a Tech-Priest after having a run-in with a undead amphetamine god.

>>9402144
Land loves this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agWPEWophEU

>>9400679
>>9401017
This, it smells like blatant opportunism to impose an education or testing requirement on the franchise now that wealthier and college-educated people tend to be progressive or liberal, whereas 50 (or even 30) years ago the opposite was true, to a very pronounced degree. Not to mention stifles debate on issues because:

>question on voting exam concerning economics
>Wrong, Paul Krugman says it's the other way, no vote for you!

Simple cover for rule by technocrats, turning the vote into a rubber stamp for their decisions.

>>9401629
>There is some overlap between the Paleoconservative right and this new "alt-right" right now.

I think the main overlap between paleocons and the alt-right (which doesn't seem to be very coherent, at least right now) stems from a) opposition to mass migration and multiculturalism, and b) anti-communism. The reasons for the first one differ, though, in that paleocons are worried that immigrants will disrupt the institutions and culture of society because they and their children can vote and because there is no longer any pressure to assimilate, whereas for most alt-right people (and this might be an unfair generalization) they are simply just worried about the country becoming non-white. Most paleocons would be happy with a non-white immigrant who is a devotee of Christianity, the pre-New Deal understanding of the Constitution, and the cultural norms and artifacts of western civilization, but would be unhappy with a gay Swedish immigrant who is a member of the Socialist Youth; for large portions of the alt-right, the opposite is preferable.

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>>9393051
>>9393272

Moldbug (alias Boldmug) and Jim destroyed Scott Aaronson because only argument Scott had was muh feelz.

Here's the discussion:

https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7022ee224729569cf91fcdd528f00d3e

>>9403011
Literally tl;dr

>>9403052
>>9403011
A stupid leftist cuck professor was blown the fuck out by one of the greatest intellects of our time.

>>9403011
>When the Computer Scientist thinks he's optimized to live in a Jewish shanty town in eastern fucking Europe
Halp

>>9403011
>https://gist.github.com
>posting politically charge crap on github

is there no refuge from the meme war? jesus christ!

>>9375762

moldbug is a fucking clown
you can't even dignify him with the title of pseud

>>9403266
You mean the same github that deleted repositories and banned users for using the word "retard"?

Or the github that banned people for using the eggplant emoji claiming it was sexist and threatening?

Is it just me or are all these political ideologues too heavy-handed and dull? You almost feel suffocated listening to the whole thing. They want to be elitist but have no aristocratic sensibilities it's just MUH ELITE OLIGARCH IQ OVERLORDS and other autistic shit.

>>9404371
it's stupid anyways because the strongest and most intelligent (or at least clever) are always the ruling class, there's not need for a "reactionary movement", any kind of ideology that tries to change the world is adolescent

>>9403282
Not an argument.

>>9404378
But a king would put the SJWs and blacks in their place. The ruling class don't know what's good for themselves.

>>9393706
4chan is a structurally leftist website.

>>9404786
How so?

>>9379469
I don't buy his distinction between Brahmins and Optimates. Whether one spends one's wealth on academics, arts, world peace, or simply amassing more of it doesn't seem caste-defining to me.
Philanthropists have always been wealthy, by definition. Everything he describes as a Brahmin status symbol can be bought, as easily as the Medici bought art and the Kennedys bought political power.

>>9404971
Your missing the point, "Brahmin" worship fake poverty, they knowingly make more sanctimonious career decisions valuing street cred more than simple material gain, what Moldbug doesn't explain is that they're more immigration or poverty lawyers than commercial, copyright and Insurance lawyers combined.

>>9404371
Moldbug isn't a philosopher. Content-wise it isn't any different than Carlyle or Filmer.

>>9404786
>structurally leftist
Neck yourself, you wasted oxygen that could have kept a hamster alive instead.

>>9404786
Could you expand on this statement?

>>9404378
What? no they aren't, people like to criticize Trump but Schwarzenegger did it first, and unlike Trump was Arnold was a unmitigated disaster for California who still can't afford to pay off the deficits he ran up.

>>9404898
>>9405557
Not that guy but 4chan practices chaos on a daily basis, and imageboard users eat their own kind exactly like the left

Re-read "What if there's no such as chaotic good?"

>>9377227
People do vote, you just don't like what they vote for. What difference would it make if everyone voted? People would still have different opinions and there would still be a large part of the population that wouldn't like the outcome of the vote.

>>9405589
I disagree, 4chan isn't really anarchism, we're definitely libertarian though, as long as you play by the "loose" rules you don't generally get banned but the boards themselves are heavily "curated", they'll allow several Anti-Conservative/Capitalist/White to float around the front-page for days but instantly delete Poetry/Bible/Shakespeare threads.

And the right definitely doesn't "eat their own" on the industrial scale like the left, Neonazi's, Zionist Jews, Anarcho-Capitalists and Monarchists constantly share the same stage meanwhile Communists won't even share their stage with Democratic Socialists.

>>9405707
Well, this one has been a long lived thread, hasn't it?

>>9377871
Isn't this just universal basic income?

>>9405874
And guess whose pushing UBI? Sillicon Valley's Ultra-capitalists.

>>9405827
It wouldn't have a year ago, after Reddit killed /lit/ through sustained incursions we're running low on both users and moderation.

>>9403011
>100,000 words of debate from a blog post comment section shared on github
what the fuck is this autism

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>'This is a cool radio station,’ it said to its sister. ‘The radio isn’t on,’ its sister replied, concerned. Vauung learnt that the ruin’s unconscious contained an entire pop industry. The ruin learnt that it had arrived, somewhere on the motorway. Nothing more was said about it. Why upset your family?

What did he mean by this?

>>9406002
Where did you get these hard copies?

>>9401182
>aresislord.org

>Love between Men was, as I've said, Manly, Martial, and Monogamous -- Phallic, Faithful, and Heroic.

>And only a hedonistic and atheistic male like Phokion's son would confuse the True Love of Man for Man -- with lust for a prostitute.

What am i reading?

>>9406784
Phokion's son is a slut

>>9406784
Right? I've never seen anything like it before or since. Clearly well researched, but clearly crazy. And how would you describe it other than homo supremacy? Patrician and patriarchy have the same root

>>9406784
>>9407012
Pt. 2
as far as I've been able to gather, this guy was one of the leading voices during the gay rights movement but got sidelined for his weird views. One of the main ones was that men were better than women so homosexuality was the rational choice for any masculine man. The one that got him sorta exiled was his antagonism to anal sex because (in the classic spirit) no masculine actor would allow themselves to be penetrated.

For those that were discussing Land earlier in the thread you should know a good percentage of his material has been lost if your wondering why there seems to be little substance over his multiple blogs.

Some of it has been recovered and posted to:
http://hyperstition.abstractdynamics.org/
and
https://oldnicksite.wordpress.com/

>>9406099
What were thse sustained incursions?

>>9376049
yeah neocons