Why is nobody waking up to the fact that culture is dead?

File: 14510239946654.jpg (22KB, 488x442px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 488x442px

>>9369062
Lay back and enjoy the ride down to WWIII, OP.

>evening in America
>the quality of /lit/ takes a hideous plunge and feelguys and pepes abound

Really makes me wonder.

Who seo we blame for this travesty?

>>9369106
It's past midnight in EU.

File: woe to drunkards.jpg (59KB, 500x559px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 500x559px

>>9369062

>>9369109
Indeed.

>>9369078
Is WWIII necessary to bring about the cultural rebirth?

And how could such a thing occur in a society of obese individuals?

>>9369122
What is this trying to suggest? That people of the past too had nostalgia for their youth and previous years?

That is NOT an argument. Yes, a man of the 19th century may wish to go back to the early years but he is STILL surrounded by Giants such as Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Stirner, Marx etc. whereas today, there are NO Giants.

Your argument is moot, fuck off!

>>9369062
>it is generally accepted that the 2010's is the worst period of culture in the past 200 years,

By whom?

>>9369147
Are you going to deny that people in general don't think this, lol? Even normies that browse facebook all day think this

>>9369147
>expecting someone who uses weasel words to provide a source

>>9369154
>Are you going to deny that people in general don't think this, lol?

I mean you said it so I'm sure you can show me some essays and such that put the point forward. (Prager U doesn't count though).

>>9369164
You're a typical brainlet.

You want to argue as to whether people in general believe this or not when THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE. The issue at hand is whether culture has deteriorated and whether or not it can be fixed. All this requires is your personal opinion, the opinion of the general population will not suffice in any way or pertain to our discussion as we cannot go out and get their opinion on the matter in this thread.

Thus, your attempts to narrow the discussion into this factoid is a cunning tactic on your part to win a debate on he presumption that the debate is centred on whether or not people think x when x isn't even the question at hand!

In other words, get fucked, dork.

>>9369176
>my personal experience is the only evidence I need to make my sweeping statement fact
>said no scientist ever

Maybe culture is dead for you, faggot. Booktubers on Youtube are brought together by their shared love of YA, which you and I might think is shit, but to them it's a shared, cultural experience. There are similar, niche things everywhere, and it brings people together and they derive meaning from it. Look at 4chan. Maybe you mean lowest common denominator mass culture has gotten worse and more manufactured? It's pointless to have the discussion, desu, because it'll inevitably turn into re-defining "culture" to fit your hypothesis that culture is dead which is born completely out of pessimism probably brought on by other things.

Brainlets calling other people brainlets. Lmfao.

>>9369180
>ignores the point made and continues to do the very thing the post attacked

You're a special kind of brainlet, aren't you?

>>9369186
You're a woman, aren't you?

>>9369176
>You want to argue as to whether people in general believe this or not when THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE. The issue at hand is whether culture has deteriorated
> All this requires is your personal opinion, the opinion of the general population will not suffice in any way or pertain to our discussion as we cannot go out and get their opinion on the matter in this thread.

But then why did you bring up the "common" opinion in the first place, and why are you unable to support your claims about "commonly" held opinions. It seems like you are fabricating those claims to give your argument unjustified support (perhaps because you are unable to support it orherwise?)

>>9369189
>The issue at hand is whether culture has deteriorated and whether or not it can be fixed.
>All this requires is your personal opinion,
>the opinion of the general population will not suffice in any way or pertain to our discussion as we cannot go out and get their opinion on the matter in this thread.
Translation:
>My opinion is the only opinion that matters to the discussion normies get out REEE
My opinion is that you're really mad over the fact that nobody you know personally shares your interests.

>Its a "da good ol' days" thread again

Maybe you are not so related with the contemporany scene of the culture aka a passive faggot

>>9369193
Why, do I make your tiny, pathetic cock shrivel up and feel ashamed in the way that only usually happens when you're confronted with the eternal feminine? Cry, cry, little boy.

>>9369194
>>9369201

I can do what I like, idiot!

As you can see, the OP contains a series of questions NOT answers. Therefore, the OP is in fact more open than you are willing to give it credit!

Ignore this meaningless discussion and focus on the topic at hand!

What is *your* opinion on the matter?

But this information makes it the best time to be alive

>>9369189
but you said it was generally accepted.

>>9369206
What's it like knowing I didn't read any of your post when confronted with the typical "Lmfao." where you females are so easily spotted?

Sad!

>>9369204
>Maybe you are not so related with the contemporany scene of the culture aka a passive faggot

Why don't you provide examples?

Oh wait, you didn't provide any examples because you know that none exist, otherwise, you would have provided them!

>>9369219
Embarrassed for you because you're a brainlet.

>>9369209
>As you can see, the OP contains a series of questions NOT answers

Most of all it contains a series of unsupported claims. Not just about common opinion but also about the deterioration of cinema.

Why do you think contemporary cinema is bad? How is it bad and how do you compare it to cinema before? Can you actually make any arguments that aren't shitpost-tier sweeping statements?

>>9369232
Sad!

>>9369239
>Why do you think contemporary cinema is bad?

Because it's all capeshit, reproductions of existing films and big budget sci-fi/cgi to make greater profit margins.

>How is it bad and how do you compare it to cinema before?

These films are clearly worse than the box office films of the mid-20th century, anyone who denies this is a moron not worth debating!

>Can you actually make any arguments that aren't shitpost-tier sweeping statements?

Can you?


Now, what is your opinion?

>>9369251
>i only know the mainstream therefore nothing else exists
Are you 16?

>>9369228
You can find them on the internet easy, do you really want me to link to some movies and art?I dont feel like you really want to be convinced

Personally, I think there aren't enough catastrophic or major events happening that shape a generation, like the World Wars or The Cold War or going further back, the Renaissance and Enlightenment or say, the Persian and Peloponnesian Wars.

What we have is a kind of low level badness in most of the world that most people in the west either don't care about or only make a token effort of caring. There are no stories to tell, and a lot of ideas have already been explored by previous generations.

There is also the possibility with things like music that we simply are out of ideas.

>>9369145
That proves the point. Literally every writer you mentioned was irrelevant at the time in which they wrote. Who is to say there aren't people of that caliber writing now, yet to be discovered?

The present always seems worse than the past in terms of cultural success because the historians and critics haven't created a narrative for it yet.

>>9369262
I watch independent films on a regular basis, idiot, I keep up to date with all of them, they're all shit!

The majority of them are between 4-6/10, none of them ever reach the status of an 8 or a 9!

>>9369269
>Literally every writer you mentioned was irrelevant at the time in which they wrote.

WRONG. Fuck off, retard.

>>9369251
>These films are clearly worse than the box office films of the mid-20th century, anyone who denies this is a moron not worth debating!
Those are terrible arguments (they arwnt arguments at all) and no one will take you seriously if you're too lazy to elaborate your thoughts (if you have any).

As for Marvel movies (and this goes similarly for Music or other forms of art): Are you not making an unfair comparison here? You're comparing what is popular right now with old time classics that have survived the test of time, and not with what was popular *then*. Did you know that in "69 the Archies' "Sugar Sugar" was in the top of the Radio charts?

>>9369273
You didn't answer whether you're 16 or not.

>>9369273
>> I keep up to date with all of them, they're all shit!

Hahahaha, why do you persist?

>>9369286
Not an argument, back to >>>/r/etard you go!

You know, the victorians wrote a lot of shit. So did the people in the 20s, so too did a lot of much earlier generations. It's entirely possible that the gems of this generation are simply buried under a pile of dross, and it's history that does the sifting. That process has yet to happen for our generation.

Our culture is dead because the culture creators are dead. We have rejected our traditions, and instead have chosen to create our own new traditions. However, we lack the talent to do so, and what we end up with is what we have now.

>>9369291
You want rational, objective arguments when you're spouting the completely subjective opinions typically held by a 16 year old. You're definitely 16, desu.

>>9369267
Yeah /mu/ here and I disagree music is doing alright except the past two years have been so-so.

>>9369209
My opinion on the matter is that the form media is consumed in bulk has changed to the point where literary works in print are not given as much focus as they have in the past. 'Modern' media has been supplanting most physical writing for years and years.
Television, the media form that is alleged to have been killing reading for years by people like Roald Dahl (see Charlie and the Chocolate Factory for an example of his views on the corrupting influence of television as expressed in character form), has been moving to the Internet for half a decade.
It's in demand because people demand it. Same with video games. Video game players complain that AAA games are shit, but they sell. If you want to find geniuses, maybe you need to look harder. There's a million people screaming their opinions on the net every day, you're bound to find one or two that fit your niche.
What is this golden apple you're looking for? If you can define it, it'll be easier to find. Whining out of ennui is not a substitute for observing current culture with a critical eye.

>>9369289
Because you never know!

>>9369285
>and not with what was popular *then*. Did you know that in "69 the Archies' "Sugar Sugar" was in the top of the Radio charts?

Yeah and? That doesn't change the fact thousands of young people were attending concerts by jimi hendrix!

Also, what was popular in the past is still classic now. Films like 12 Angry Men and Apocalypse Now are still classics and they're just the examples off the top of my head! They're not even the best!

>>9369145
DAE le wrong generation

>>9369154
I want whatever glue you're huffing my dude

>>9369300
>/mu/ here
Stopped reading at this point

There aren't even any good films! All the good films are dead! Culture is dead! It's my opinion because it's my experience, and my experience means it's fact! I'm just asking questions! What's your opinion, idiot!

>>9369308
>Yeah and? That doesn't change the fact thousands of young people were attending concerts by jimi hendrix!

And right now thousands of young people are attending concerts of equally talented artists. What exactly is your point?

>>9369317
Autism.

If you have an opinion of your own, share it.

>>9369313
What albums do you like from this decade?

Reading ~50 canonical books and watching movies from the "1001 movies" list is nice but it doesn't make you an expert on art history and doesn't give you the knowledge required for saying extreme and sweeping statements like yours. Constant insults and exclamation marks in your other replies undermine your legitimacy further...
>>9369273
>The majority of them are between 4-6/10, none of them ever reach the status of an 8 or a 9!
...and this buries it ten metres under the fucking ground.

>>9369321
But he was quoting you.

>>9369320
>And right now thousands of young people are attending concerts of equally talented artists. What exactly is your point?

Why can't you name them?

>>9369321
Autism is dead, idiot! I keep up to date with all the latest autism, and it's shit! It doesn't even compare to the autism of the past! Now, what's your autism? It's terrible, idiot!

>>9369334
No, he was being a loser as are you. When someone says they believe something is the case, they don't mean "It is fact bro!!" You only think it does because you're insecure and never have your opinions challenged.

>>9369295
You sound anti-humanist

>>9369337
Triggered lol

>>9369346
We are not as smart as we once were. The best of us died in the cataclysmic event known as the 20th century.

>>9369340
>Why is nobody waking up to the fact that culture is dead?
Are you so retarded as to not see this literally means "I'm aware of the truth and nobody else is, and anyone who challenges me isn't woke enough!" Idiot! You act like a belligerent retard and duck for cover shouting OPINIONS! OPINIONS! when challenged. You're definitely 16 and you should definitely kill yourself.

>>9369360
Pretty sure you've been sperging for three posts straight, loser.

If you've got a counter opinion, post it instead of yelling "16!" all the time.

Embarrassing.

I'm not reading all this bullshit but could someone provide some examples of great contemporary art? I'm legitimately interested and remember we are anonymously online so if you're afraid to offer something due to fear of being mocked then reevaluate your self-image

>>9369368
Someone is also too stupid to realise this site is anonymous and you can't know whether I've posted my opinion or what it is. Idiot!

File: nietzsche.jpg (165KB, 773x1024px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 773x1024px

Well the West really doesn't believe in it's own values anymore and hasn't for a long time.

I mean, barely anyone is a Christian, and even if they say they are, they are only Christian in a stunted cultural, destroyed-by-the-scientific-worldview kind of way.

And the replacement of Christianity and Christian values is this annoying leftist politics that everyone apotheosize as the savior of humanity(Equality, brotherhood, tolerance and diversity).

Meanwhile the barbarians are amassing on the borders, just like in Rome. The people who believe in absolute Truth, righteousness and heroic masculinity. They usually fly planes into buildings and drive trucks through masses of people because they believe so strongly in their values.

>>9369368
The problem is that your arguments and methods are reminiscent of those of a 16 year old.

I don't think anyone on /lit/ is able to write a comprehensive critique of contemporary (pop-) culture, let alone within the margins of a thread, but comparing The Avengers to Citizen Kane certainly won't do, Buster.

File: Benjamin Senior Born 1982.jpg (206KB, 810x1215px) Image search: [Google]

206KB, 810x1215px

>>9369370
Howdy.

>>9369357
A victim of postmodernism sophism I see
The most vocal it seems

>>9369373
Reddit

>>9369395
>1982

Causes one to ponder

File: James Turrel.jpg (21KB, 956x640px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 956x640px

>>9369370
Artist in filename

>>9369403
>A 35-year-old doesn't count
>He turned 18 on the turn of the century
For
What
Purpose

>>9369397
Culture is dead because morons like you have proliferated. It's impossible to have high quality mass culture when the majority can't engage in complex thinking and respond with blank cheque memery just so they can have the last post in an exchange.

>>9369411
Care to post any from 2010's?

>>9369408
This is shit

>>9369370
I'm not huge on film but I really liked "the fith season"

>>9369269
Wow you're dumb

>>9369370
>contemporary art

This includes literature music etc.

>>9369408
>muh light
its shit

>>9369417
reeeeeeeeeeeddit!

File: aelita_andre_nightdanceofflutteringbutterflies.jpg (124KB, 640x514px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 640x514px

>>9369418
>Care to post any from 2010s
This piece is from 2014.
The artist is ten years old you fucking sperg. You don't deserve any better.

File: mfw.jpg (58KB, 680x750px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 680x750px

Not a single individual in this thread has been able to name a SINGLE piece of GREAT art from the past 7 years.

>>9369449
my diary desu

File: nick land.jpg (158KB, 1000x791px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 1000x791px

Culture is dead because it's all becoming memes. Postmodernity had an early sense of this but it was still too tied up with Marxist utopianism to draw the real conclusions of where things were heading, which was the domestication of the human species by capital, a domestication they willingly submitted themselves to, the complete automation of human beings.

Nothing needs to be real or authentic. In a cultural sense only capital is real, a blind and inhuman deity that feeds on happiness to reproduce itself.

The future is populism and robotics, large crowds of clueless people praising the cold hands that will be looking on with 'intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic' at their boring fleshbag progenitors, and their strange, quixotic desires.

>>9369449
Gee I guess that proves your theory right then.

File: smoptr.png (68KB, 420x420px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 420x420px

>>9369447
Not him, but I like it. Reminds me of the stargate scene in Space Odyssey.

>>9369449
Given your criteria for great is 'is at least forty years old but still remembered fondly', I guess not.

>>9369449

STFU and let people post. I for one am seriously interested in having a glimmer of hope

>>9369134
A great War is needed for society to advance. I'm just waiting for the draft tbqhfam. Can't wait for the post War est.

>>9369370
The Young Pope.

>>9369469
>he thinks he will survive the draft

Cute

>>9369438
You dont know about painting do you?

>>9369457
As you say this, I wonder if "marketing" was as big in the past as it is now. On some level I know there have always been salesmen, but there couldn't have been the same holistic gearing of society towards consumption, right?

The Great Beauty is a good film.

Globalism didn't culture, only tradition.

Delete your stupid thread.

>>9369370
Let's be fair, do we have any criteria by which we are able to decide normal contemporary art from great contemporary art?

>>9369484
*didn't kill

>>9369476
I hope I'm not brainlet enough to be on the frontlines. I probably will be.

>>9369482
It was ok, 6-7/10

>>9369492
This is WWIII we're talking about. The front lines will come to you in the form of nuclear fire.

>>9369479
I do.
More than you anyway.

>>9369484
Culture is crystallized tradition.

This thread is devoid of any worth

>>9369145
And he would have shunned each of them except for maybe Schopenhauer who only had success VERY late in his life.

>>9369489
>Contemporany art and great contemporany art

What a moronic, pathetic and ignorant view for understand art
The answer is by reading about it, like or not.

>>9369370
Resident Evil: The Final Chapter

>>9369503
Have you seen that Rammstein music video?

>>9369370
Start getting into arthouse cinema

>>9369524
only that porno-lite one

>>9369510
Well how about you supply some instead of whining?

>>9369500
Post great XX-century paintings then

>>9369532
>Stop whining in a thread about whining

Culture is dead because of idiots like you who just whine instead of produce

>>9369516
>What a moronic, pathetic and ignorant view for understand art

Well that was what he asked for. Most of us could throw at him our favourite musical pieces since 2010, and many our favourite novels, but how would we even be able to tell whether they are similarly great as Beethoven or Moby Dick, or will have the same cultural impact.

My point is that asking for great contemporary art is an Ill formed question.

File: pic.png (165KB, 624x402px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 624x402px

Not a single person criticising the OP has been able to post a SINGLE, GREAT piece of art, film or literature.

>>9369534
Not him but what do you mean by 'great'? Influence? Size? Theoretical sophistication? Makes you personally feel cool?

>>9369536
So you agree with the OP that culture is dead yet you attack the people who say it is dead.

Wow, what a genius.

>>9369541
No definition of great.
No definition of culture.
Dismissed.

File: tumblr_muh4bgAMi81rra1j7o1_1280.jpg (335KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

335KB, 800x600px

>>9369370

>>9369541
No one has been able to show an example of art being the worst of 200 years either.

File: foucault.jpg (8KB, 192x191px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 192x191px

>>9369536
>whining about someone whining about whining in a thread about whining
This is getting dangerously ironic.

>>9369546
Oh, so you don't have your own definition?

>>9369545
It answers his question. I'm sorry that your limited brain capacity gave you only two possible responses to the OP prompt.

>>9369553
Whining about someone whining about someone whining about someone in a thread about whining.

>>9369543
The one I post its all of those, but I want you to post something that makes you fell personally cool, from the XX.

>>9369534
Dont you have internet?

>>9369541
Since nothing is sacred, explain what makes the Grapes of Wrath such a great piece of art.
I'll wait.
Objections to it:
>The author used the Great Depression's disenfranchised farmers as a political mouthpiece about how turrible the bankers and fat cats were
>The scene with the turtle adds nothing
>The breastfeeding scene at the end is fetishistic in nature
>Hackneyed Jesus figure, also personal mouthpiece
Shoot.

>>9369566
I've seen too much art to play favourites. Pick a Pollock, they're pretty great.

>>9369541
Because it's all subjective. Consider this, if someone posts something they consider great art be it in any medium, hordes of people are going to flock to oppose it. People put Ulysses on a pedestal for being the crowning achievement of literature (which is praise I agree with) but don't forget that there are scores of people out there who hate it, hate it with a passion and see it as nothing more than a waste of words, filthy, boring and pointless.

So there will never be a consensus because there is far too much out there and far too many opinions to come to a generalized conclusion

File: shutitdown.jpg (24KB, 395x290px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 395x290px

>>9369564
The goyim have figured out the lack of intellectual merit inherent in irony, oy vey!

>>9369062
>even the works that ARE of any worth are diminished by the cultural surrounding, that is to say, they don't even *shine out* as a product of being unique

So you're saying there's too many works of worth that they don't stand out from each other, thus this is the lowest point of human culture in two centuries?

>>9369062
Culture isn't dead. You're just too dense and narrow to see it bc you either watch too much tv, or spend more time online than dealing with people in person.

>tfw going to art school in italy

>try to think about what kind of art would make a statement and gain popularity simply for the sake of it if i were to attempt so in the future

>my best ideas are wrapped up in irony criticizing the irony and stagnation of culture

I feel sad for art as there's no more gods to look up to, no more great men to idealize, no more untouched pastures for men to lay their eyes on. I quite like modern art, I like most art, I'm a nobody, but modern art can only go so far.

It's reached a dead end, same with literature.

>>9369558
What prompt?

>>9369576
Not that guy but let me ask: why do you think Ulysses is the crowning achievement of literature?

stop, i'm sorry but you're 19 and your existence is just going to be mostly ignorant for a while longer

>>9369573
The Grapes of Wrath is a 20th century work lmao

>>9369062
>Wahhhhhh no one is spoonfeeding me culture wahhhhhhh greatness depends on the work's ability to impress the most uneducated of plebs like me waaaahhhhhh

>>9369586
>modern art can only go so far.

>It's reached a dead end, same with literature.

That's why postmodernism happened.

>>9369583
No, develop a reading comprehension.

I am saying that in the past, during periods of stagnation, great works would stand out among the rest by virtue of their originality and uniqueness whereas now, works that have that potential and do stand out are rendered dull, they are actually diminished as they do not fit the time nor place.

>>9369062
This is what video games and media streaming do to a weak mind. It makes them seek instant gratification. It makes them think culture is another product to be consumed.

>>9369585
>>9369591
>>9369597

Post some examples then, can you do it?

:^)

>>9369134
If the right people win. Had the Central Powers or the Axis won, we'd be in a better society.

>>9369604
Post an example, friendo

It's definitely not capitalism. That's been hard on the decline since the 1920s.

File: ac5d85243769794d3f54a9e7f8f1b7b6.jpg.png (710KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

710KB, 800x600px

>>9369481
The history of advertising is interesting. It's been going on forever but we're in a more self-aware phase of it now. We know that we are being sold and how we are being sold but hey, life/aesthetically justified, no? Commodification: Eat the Art.

We have figured out how we work. Capital has figured out our unconscious better than we can. We feed it. It's a self-operating system now. Of course, we've seen things like this before. The network of Victorian alliances linked up Europe and fed it all into the meat-grinders in WWI Because Reasons. We will slowly and exquisitely produce the tortuous fetishization we deserve.

>On some level I know there have always been salesmen, but there couldn't have been the same holistic gearing of society towards consumption, right?

It depends on what is being consumed and by who and so on. The king is the original bourgeois consumer with wealth to spare, a house to furnish and a family to keep happy. Before him infinite numbers of warlords and tyrants. Where does desire begin and end? We always want more, we always have, we always will. Liberalism is simply the horizon of infinite consumption and narcissism.

We have always consumed happiness and power. We did it under illusions of truth then. Now we go on doing it anyways knowing what we know. And on it goes.

We've turned marketing into predatory psychology. And it's working. We have figured out how humans think and feel and work. We produce no art but we have no doubts about the McChicken or pornography.

>>9369595
You're a retard, or a teenager (and therefore also retarded).

>>9369605
go to bed

>>9369610
>Had the Central Powers or the Axis won, we'd be in a better society.

Yes, I love my sculpture reproductions.

Christ, go back to >>>/r/eddit with your nazi-feitsh, they were a bunch of plebs.

>>9369062
people have been saying this since the greeks

you should've started with them

>>9369590
I misspoke(type whatever), I think Ulysses is very very very good, and worthy of praise and hype. And the breadth of its influence should not go unnoticed, for what it did for literature, as well as the country.

My dad grew up in Ireland and brought with him Irish folk tales, religious texts (not long after abandoned) and other sorts of cultural influences which he pushed onto me while I was young; coupled with my mum's love of Shakespeare and that influence on me along with years of attending a catholic schools, reading Ulysses was sort of a smorgasbord of my family and cultural history and with my love for language (studied linguistics as a direct result) shook me to my core. I like a variety of books from varying genres, but Ulysses (though many call me a liar or pretentious) just struck an emotional chord with me.

File: spengler.jpg (232KB, 700x1037px) Image search: [Google]

232KB, 700x1037px

>>9369109
It sure is.

File: Blue.jpg (66KB, 570x700px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 570x700px

>>9369575
You don't even choose the best of his movement

>>9369062
Culture is not dead, simplicity is. No longer is a simplistic lifestyle possible or encouraged. One is encouraged to be as unique as possible, pushing one to a limit of pornographizing his/her works to a limit of complete and utter stupidity.

It isn't political
Its "everyone is a snowflake" mentality.

>>9369601
>works that have that potential and do stand out are rendered dull, they are actually diminished as they do not fit the time nor place.

Makes no sense. Culture is dead because people are still producing great works that stand out from their time and place, you say.

>>9369637
Rothko doesn't really have the same influence.

>>9369640
You really are an imbecile, aren't you? Learn to read.

>>9369616
It seems as if the psychological knowledge has always been there, but more people have become aware as free time has increased. But having this knowledge doesn't diminish the effectiveness of the technique. This dissonance inspires a sort of disgust among certain people who try to escape through the use of postmodernism and other (non)ideals - but end up sliding back down the walls.

>>9369605
>>9369612

Even OP admits there is great art these days.

>>9369661
You can't adequately express your opinion. I'll tell you why, it's because you have no sense of art history or what makes works 'great'. 'Uniqueness' is modernist revisionism. There are plenty of unique works that aren't great, and plenty of great works that aren't unique.

File: idle.jpg (261KB, 1000x662px) Image search: [Google]

261KB, 1000x662px

>>9369658
DID YOU SEE THAT PAINTING WHAT ROTHKO DID I TELL YA IT COULD BE PAINTED BY A TWO YEAR OLD KID

>>9369590

It's basically an artifact of a mind that had mastered every style in the English language: colloquialisms, legalistic language, drama, the novel, the interview, and the epic. The transmutation of the banal to the heroic is its aim and it succeeds in the most marvelous way imaginable. He takes a 2500 year old epic and manages to use the day of an average guy to express the epic through his perambulation. The stream of consciousness technique makes you feel like you're in the mind of another. No other book has such convincing revelation of characters' thoughts. It's an unspeakable accomplishment, it really is.

>>9369694
Simply epic.

>>9369586
>I feel sad for art as there's no more gods to look up to, no more great men to idealize, no more untouched pastures for men to lay their eyes on

Create it yourself, like Rilke did. Become the Superman.

>>9369449
here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxorgGVK9cE

>>9369680
Name them then :)

>>9369620
>Yes, I love my sculpture reproductions

Hmm funny how guys like TS Eliot and Pound were sympathetic to the axis powers gee I wonder if there's more to them than sculpture reproductions

>>9369717
No.

>>9369134
It won't. We would simply cease to be.

>>9369716
Seriously, look around, it is generally accepted that the there are plenty of unique works that aren't great, and plenty of great works that aren't unique, anyone who doubts this is either a normie or a brainlet.

>>9369134
God no. Because the end result of WWIII is total annihilation. If anyone were to survive, I doubt the first thing they do would be to compose art.

>>9369180
Is lit a science board now?

>>9369726
Name them then :)

>>9369734
t. brainlet

>>9369700

I think everyone here wants to do that, for the most part.

Rilke was on another level, one of those gifted writers who could see or atleast describe the unseen parts of the mind and the world around us, so much so where rilke and wittgenstein quoted and studied him.

There's a problem with the modern/postmodern trend of reducing everything to its utmost abstract and then everyone following them fails for the most part to push it without becoming absurd themselves.

>>9369664
That's right. There is no 'ironic consumption.' The spice must flow and having the knowledge doesn't diminish the effectiveness of the technique. What happens is that it makes it more nuanced, and makes people more aestheticized, more niche, more whatever.

Have It Your Way is a curse. The shallow can never have enough to sufficiently Express Your Identity. In the long run these become myths and people subscribe to them accordingly. Without a historical perspective it becomes very difficult to distinguish consumer reality from anything else.

We know too much, are sensitized to too much to be robust enough to survive what all of this consumption is going to produce. In the long run business will be too important to left to humans. The robots are going to be the ones to end postmodernism in any meaningful sense, because there will never be a reason why things could not have been done better, quicker, more efficiently. A technological sensibility underwrites capitalist realism, which comes in the end to determine culture.

>>9369734
What is it that you want, what is it that you'd consider "GREAT ART"

>>9369738
Embarrassing, still can't name a single great work from this decade.

>>9369747
Embarrassing, still can't find a great single work from this decade.

>>9369744
Whatever you think it is, friend :)

>>9369694
In other words, it takes the hero's journey and puts it through a meta wringer. Yeah, that's exactly what I don't like. Stuff like that is responsible for the rise of irony and all its peripheries.

>>9369749
Not him, but Maps of Meaning and Worldview and Mind come to mind.

>>9369747
I wasn't talking about this decade brainlet. Keep up.

>>9369755
Maps of Meaning is shit and is from 1999

File: thesym.jpg (17KB, 229x346px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 229x346px

>>9369749

>>9369062
>Great contemporary works are magically made not great because they don't *shine out*!

you won't know what is significant until later

sorry dude, but you can't find the true meat except by chance. it will only matter in hindsight anyways.

does it really matter if you read moby dick on the day of release, or if you dismissed it, or if you never heard of it at all?

moby dick exists for us know as a way to define the past. it didn't actually exist as moby dick to the average person in 1851

this isn't a 'dark period' just because you can't see what's important

>>9369601
>I am saying that in the past, during periods of stagnation, great works would stand out among the rest by virtue of their originality and uniqueness

this has literally never been the case

>>9369759
Great analysis and contribution to the discussion, you nitpicking lunatic.

>>9369767
Yes it was, retard.

Virtually the case for every major philosophical work.

>>9369775
no. nice reddit spacing by the way, faggot

>>9369776
Nice newfag meme.

>>9369062

electronic music and sculpture are fucking good right now, and we're in the midst of a really exciting blossoming of 3d modeling as an artistic medium. just because you're an uneducated plebe who doesnt know where to look for interesting art doesnt mean it isnt there.

>>9369186
>>9369206

Who the fuck is this ruthless anon? Absolute savage.

>>9369753
>In other words, it takes the hero's journey and puts it through a meta wringer. Yeah, that's exactly what I don't like. Stuff like that is responsible for the rise of irony and all its peripheries.

I totally get that criticism because I'm the same way, but it's more than that. He doesn't just take the hero's journey and meta it, he specifically focuses on the Odyssey. If the Odyssey is up there as the foundational literary artwork in the Western canon, transposing it into 20th century Dublin is really imaginative. The fact that Joyce can convincingly make Bloom an Ulyssean hero is a feat of literary greatness. And if that wasn't enough, he uses, parodies, and innovates in every literary form available to the English language.

>>9369370
Zadie Smith

>>9369782
yeah man i like those oldfag memes like WHEN I WAS, fucking reddit shit

>>9369786
Name some then :)

File: 1491537119740.png (120KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 500x500px

>>9369456

>>9369062
If you name some great works you'll probably notice they're more than 10 years apart.

>>9369062
>>Why the fuck is this happening? Is it Capitalism?
What else would it be?

>>9369791
I will say that it has inherent worth due to its staying power. There is no greater filter than time, and merely transposing it to the 20th century wouldn't be enough (see any Hollywood gritty reboot). You say "and if that wasn't enough", but I'd say it's precisely that unorthodox delivery that makes it memorable. Like what you like anon :)

>>9369808
This, honestly. What do you expect when every artist, in every medium, sells out? I'm not even a Marxfag, and this shit is clearly evident.

>>9369370

I'm not so keen on his most recent self-titled album, but Arca is doing really cool stuff in sound design that I think powerfully articulates a queer subjectivity that mediates gendered critiques with Marxist ideological analysis of culture that is sorely needed in today's political and intellectual climate. Meanwhile in sculpture you should check out Sun Yuan, whose recent work (for example) Can't Help Myself is a giant, industrial robot arm programmed to scoop seeping blood-like fluid to its center, was featured in the Guggenheim and is a fascinating and hypnotic take on cybernetics and probably works toward criticism of the silicon valley/transhumanist ideology.

I happen to favor the Marxist perspective because I think that if you ascribe a positive politco-ethical value to critique while still balancing yourself with an ironized Kantianism that insists on an initial moment of seeming purposeless purposiveness, then you effectively have an aesthetics that is at once personally fulfilling and potentially grounds a new form of cultural living.

But I think a "pure" Kantianism, which is what people usually complain is lacking in contemporary art when they say culture is dead, is totally compatible with these works as well. Take Arca. Listen to his mixtape, &&&&&, and tell me that his microscopic structures of sound aren't pre-intelligible beauties that only the highest level of modern production technology has made available to our ear. Here we have artists that are really exploring the full range of sonic expression that synthesized instruments allow, and that human hearing and aesthetic sense accommodates. I don't see what there is to complain about, except for the fact that it's all propped up on a base of labor exploitation.

>>9369062
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdmhNPwxGuk

itt

autism

>>9369408
hotline bling

>>9369859
More like
>in the entire site

>>9369841
This man is pure ASMR

File: tmp_7542-1482842920553-538497522.jpg (92KB, 600x710px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 600x710px

>>9369062
>only a god can save us

Y'all should have listened

dude i am a cuck lmao

>>9369821

It isn't just a mere transposition. Bloom and Molly are expressed within the Ulyssean mold of faithful wife and returning husband while adding extra dimensions to their relationship (like Molly's realization that she still loves Bloom in spite of his inability to have sex with her and Bloom's self-assertive reorganization of his furniture after Boylan was over and usurping his household).

>>9369457
There is the possibility we appropriate these machines for our own use. Once the technology is integrated, it's simply a matter of who uses it and how- heck, we might even see a quasi-Marxist utopia buoyed afloat by basic income.

The really intriguing question is how the culture reacts to this. You made a point about artistic expression being replaced by memes. Memes are popular because they are accessible and constantly adapting to a world where the ironic is becoming more and more the norm. There's no reason why this ethos can't be translated into a work of great literature, but it definitely won't be something as inaccessible as Infinite Jest, for example. Pynchon has probably landed closest to the mark in style, but his dense prose has prevented him from penetrating mainstream culture.

>>9369449
>>9369541
Traditional art: hasn't discovered a new epoch yet, still stuck in the self-indulgence of postmodernism without saying anything new
Film: more prolific industry so we have to wait and see. Personally, I think Paul Verhoeven's 'Elle' will become a cult classic
Literature: Marlon James' 'A Brief History of Seven Killings'. Bridges realism, postmodernism, and genre, strong contender for a great novel, but too idiosyncratic a subject matter. Tao Lin's stuff would qualify if he could actually write well.

>>9369840
Go to bed Arca

>>9369840
>Arca
O im laffin
Came here to post this 2012 masterpiece for those looking for a great musical work from this decade:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGEmhzQFr8

>>9369907
>wishy-washy substanceless pretentions of the avant-garde

Dumb phoneposter.

The greatest piece of art was unveiled in 2005, of course culture cannot recover after that.
Most people cannot even BEGIN to comprehend what it has done. Do you know about it? Probably not. Was it totally original? Not at all. What did it do? Successfully culminate the thought of the century.

All art now is merely a reaction to the genius of this masterwork, subconsciously or otherwise, yet nobody really knows how to react.

>>9369894

stop pretending that a book about the impossibility of connecting with your youth, which is also stupid and self-absorbed, can somehow also be about repairing a broken marriage. people take the ulysses parallel way too seriously in the states. it never seems to occur to anyone east of ireland that joyce was an ironist through and through. the central chapters of this book are eumaeus and ithaca, not proteus and penelope. seriously, talk to some irish, UK, and continental joyceans and you get a completely different, cynical reading.

>>9369765
Good post

Death Grips is the only truly 'great' artistic venture of the 21st century.

>>9369914
>subtanceless
>only listening to two minutes of it
heh

>>9369808
>>9369824
Except for the fact that in previous and just as capitalist decades, people still made great art. The only thing that's really changed is technology.

Id wager that shitposting has become the art of the decade. Half baked arguments coupled with actual philosophical insight plus experience has transcended literature and art, all for the sake of "stirring the pot". Hell managed to get Trump elected, if that isnt the artistic movement of the internet age I dont know what is.

>>9369933
>people take the ulysses parallel way too seriously in the states.
>ironist through and through

Joyce's stated goal as a writer was to be a "priest of the eternal imagination, transmuting the daily bread of experience into the radiant body of everliving life" (portrait). He's not playing around and satirizing the Odyssey. He's using it as a narrative structure with which to make his everyday experience into a heroic epic. Yes he loves to be funny and satire, but there's more too it than that.

File: GOAT?.jpg (165KB, 980x560px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 980x560px

>>9369062
Pic related is one of my favorite films of all time, from 2015.

I don't think it's as bad as you think. There has been a general dumbing-down of culture which I think has a lot to do with a severely diminished average attention span, but I think there still exists good quality stuff, just in much smaller quality due to the reduced demand.

I think people will wake up eventually... normies can't keep consuming nothing but shit forever...

>>9369997
>normies can't keep consuming nothing but shit forever
I disagree, it'll only get worse.

>>9369145
>He doesn't realize he's living in a time where Roberto Calasso, imageboards, and anime exist in parallel

Do you really think Nietzsche wouldn't have shit himself if he saw, say, /his/ or /lit/? Is it really that much better to be hanging out in a coffee shop in Paris discussing the same 5 serialized novels with the same 6 mouth breathing posers? We live in a golden age of culture

>>9369979
>this glass of water didn't do anything to the fire when it was just 1/100 full, but then I put it under the faucet and let time pass until it was 90/100 full and it actually doused it, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE IT IS THE SAME GLASS ?!?! !? !? !: !? !? !? !? SPIRITS!!!!!

>>9369997
>normies can't keep consuming nothing but shit forever...
See, what you call shit they call fun and epic. Stop holding your breath because you're gonna turn blue.

>>9370020
Retarded analogy. Try again.

>>9369154
I think there's a sense of presentism due to the dominance of a very specific type of leftism, but that dominance has rendered the culture impotent.

>>9370060
Retarded brain, tell your mom to try again.

>>9369078
This, we won't need culture where we're going.
Welcome to the dark ages.

>>9370072
>moron thinks that the "dark ages" didn't have culture

>>9369449
You're finished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh9oLs67Cw

>>9370070
>I've completely invested myself in the Marxist meme, PLEASE don't ruin it for me

>>9369062
Many of the low-hanging fruit have been plucked, and we can access all extant art from all history via computer now. So something has to Really stand out to stand out. New media now exist that no-one has yet exploited. Thanks to computers, a musician can now literally sculpt sound on the level of the waveform, can adjust the waveform amplitudes precisely on the ten thousandths of a second resolution, can create timbres that have never existed before. Almost no-one has really taken advantage of this. Why? Because it is hard. I think that the geniuses are coming.

>>9370174
>Thanks to computers, a musician can now literally sculpt sound on the level of the waveform, can adjust the waveform amplitudes precisely on the ten thousandths of a second resolution, can create timbres that have never existed before. Almost no-one has really taken advantage of this. Why? Because it is hard.
Or because no one gives a shit.

>>9369503
Not really.
>>9369541
I have already mentioned the greatest piece of art ever made, and the greatest that ever will be made.

File: pepe.jpg (12KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 250x250px

>it's a born in le wrong generation episode

>>9370277
What piece of art is that?

>>9370285
>>9369921
If you don't already know it, you couldn't possibly understand it.

>>9369984

>taking a line from a dreamy eyed child character with philosophical pretensions as the mission statement of the author, who has, biographically, himself out grown the very phase he is depicting
>>being THIS tone deaf to modernist irony

>>9369984
>>9370307

MAYBE id be able to take you seriously if you were making the argument about the Romantics. but this is modernism we're talking about. the impetus is no longer to mend the gulf between subject and object, man and nature, through the aesthesis of beauty captured in poetic verse, but simple to "make it new," as the stupefying prosaic complexities of ulysses make clear, even if pound's dictum does not. it's sheer writing, pure écriture, and the odyssey parallel is a mere blueprint for formal experimentation. this is why hugh kenner (one of the most important joyce scholars and probably the most knowledgable modernist scholar of the 20th century) calls the narrator in Ulysses "the arranger:" it captures and seeks out narrative material according to a scheme, and transforms that material according to the prosaic invention corresponding to the schematic moment. that the scheme is derived from ulysses is purely contingent, as indicated by the fact, for instance, that the parallel is only explicitly stated in the title: the chapter titles were later editorial additions. and not for nothing, joyce learned about the odyssey first from a children's book, suggesting that the schematism is "child's play," an embarrassing determination to which the hermeneutics of comparison, which takes the ideology of "Daily Life" and tries to pump life into its corpse through mythic parallel, is also subject.

>>9370281
Nostalgia for a time he didn't even live in.

Pathetic.

>>9370346
A lot of parallels to surrealism

>>9369273
You're comparing every new film that comes out to the all time highlights. How often do you think an 8 or 9 comes along? As long as film has existed, there have been 1000 average films for every good one, and people like you have been whining about film being dead.

>>9370307

>taking a line from a dreamy eyed child character with philosophical pretensions as the mission statement of the author, who has, biographically, himself out grown the very phase he is depicting

Have you even read Ellmann's bio? If you think Joyce is just "being ironic" about meticulously using the minutae of his life then you've lost the plot kid.

>>9370189
Few people give a shit yet because no great work has yet been made using such techniques. The work of genius justifies the medium.

>>9370390
It's difficult when critical acclaim seems to be an indicator of mediocrity these days.

>>9370281
>>9370370
shoo shoo present shills
the past is cool as fuck you nerds

>>9370461
>I want to wear wigs, tights, and high heels like the aristocracy!

File: b24b0417d31926b08fde9646f93f2bd0.png (221KB, 537x535px) Image search: [Google]

221KB, 537x535px

>>9369062
why isn't OP awake to the fact that this board is dead?

>>9370467
>I want to wear ironic screen printed tees, skinny jeans, and horn rimmed glasses like a homo!

>>9370174
>has never listen to psytrance

>>9370519
>implying wigs, tights, and high heels aren't homo

>>9370526
then why are you complaining about it? you'd fit right in

File: beyond-the-black-rainbow-2010.jpg (585KB, 960x1440px) Image search: [Google]

585KB, 960x1440px

>>9369370
I don't claim to know much but I think that I know my kino slightly better than the average pleb.
>Beyond the Black Rainbow
Pulp-thriller meets Kubrick-like symbolism clusterfuck. The only 'retro' film I've ever seen that didn't make me almost vomit in disgust. Made with a genuine appreciation for what made these old thrillers work and look good. The visuals alone make it worth a watch, but then it also kind of works as a revival of those old generational-conflict brat-pack stories that were big around then. The movie feels kind of like 'Manhunter' meets 'The Fury'.
>A Bird Sat On A Branch Thinking About...
Good fantasists are extremely rare in film-making. Better watch these while they're fresh, I don't think we'll be getting any more in the future. Jarman's dead, Cocteau's dead, Boorman's old. The future is bleak. Right now isn't completely lost though, because we have 'A Bird Sat On a Branch.'

>>9369062
But OP, aren't you looking forward to this masterpiece of cinema?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MGUNV8MxU

>>9369449
http://www.cosmoetica.com/American%20Imperium.htm

File: sakura-no-uta-1.jpg (470KB, 1915x1077px) Image search: [Google]

470KB, 1915x1077px

That's because you're looking in the wrong areas.

>>9370658
But that movie is trash though. And De Palma even admits the fury is shit. Manhunter is good, prefer theif for early mann

>>9370768
>De Palma admits the fury is shit
Lots of directors shit on their own work. De Palma had a bad time of his later career and he's only really remembered by plebs for the trashier parts of his work to the point where he's fallen for the memes against him. I think that he's a very strong director who's just had his confidence eroded by decades of criticism and misunderstandings. I like this retrospective on his work.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436431/de-palma-artist-celebrity

>>9369273
>The majority of them are between 4-6/10, none of them ever reach the status of an 8 or a 9!

The fact that you still need to slap an arbitrary rating on something as nuanced and subjective as a film really shows the unfortunate thought process you have while watching a film.

Typical white male whining thread.

>>9369524
You mean this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iaxDxHUWP8

>>9369062
or maybe it's because of the massive exposure of shit caused by the ever present social media that's making it harder to sort the gems from the trash?

>>9369145
Kys my man

What scares me the most is that there is this generation of people missing out on mediums entirely. I've talked to some stranger on the net, and particular the younger ones often say

>I don't read
>I don't really listen to music
>I don't watch TV, just movies every now and then
>I don't watch movies, just some TV every now and then

What the fuck is wrong with these people? Do they literally do nothing but post on social media? Do they plan trips and social outings, only in hopes of taking a selfie or group photo that will get them a lot of likes in facebook or IG? If anything, the internet has awakened a sort of demon in people that makes them endlessly seek self-validation and approval through the "like" system found on social media.

Before the internet, to know someone liked you, well, they became your friend. That's what proved it. Now to feel validated and liked, people need hundreds of "likes" from strangers. To maximize the amount of likes, one has to perfect their selfies and posts. Books? Music? Movies? Do these help you get "likes?" Not at all sadly, not at all. So, these will be cast away as humans have sabotaged their intellectual development with the advent of the internet.

>>9370141
HOLY...

>>9370755
This, but unironically.

>>9370852
like what? VN?

>>9370870
No, not the whole medium, that specific one, Sakura no Uta.

>>9370872
will give it a look, thanks

>>9370875
Consider reading Subarashiki Hibi first. Same author, unrelated story and wildly different tone, but related ideas. And Subahibi came out earlier.

I've begun to think that the United States needs to suffer some great catastrophe for the good of global culture. America's hegemony as the world's leading cultural power has led to the dominance of its nihilistic, materialistic worldview. This must end.

this thread was posted by a solipsistic wretch who is determined to be miserable! don't waste your fucking breath! :)

>>9370827
Perhaps people's lives are the real art now. People are trying to sculpt perfect lives and are curating all of it for others' viewing on social media. Our culture is socialisation.

>>9370887
But everybody keeps failing.

Why did so many of you faggots take this bait?

>>9370905
Any excuse to bitch, I think. We all just really seem to hate contemporary Western culture.

File: peped.jpg (11KB, 236x236px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 236x236px

>>9369062
>past 7 years
>Why the fuck is this happening?

Social media and the omnipresent smartphone. You think I'm joking? What do you suppose would have happened to the Renaissance if suddenly the creative spirit, the individual's craving for approval, could have been sated immediately and at a whim?

It has already begun. Traditional arts are dying and transforming, and the average pseud sees no reason to save it. I hope you like meme humor.

>>9370827
>>>I don't read
>>I don't really listen to music
>>I don't watch TV, just movies every now and then
>>I don't watch movies, just some TV every now and then
yes hedonists fail to understand how a human cannot enjoy entertainment

>>9369062
>Seriously, look around, it is generally accepted that the 2010's is the worst period of culture in the past 200 years, anyone who doubts this is either a normie or a brainlet.
Translation: I subjectively feel sad, the world revolves around me, therefore it's world that it at fault

Every generation there are people who say culture is dead. I remember in the 90s there were dozens of dumbasses saying the same shit

>Everyone just watches MTV and listens to Britney Spears nowadays, It's the end of culture!

Lo and behold, nostalgia fags now think the 90s were some golden age. For the sake of your mental health OP please get some perspective.

>>9369546
You are a dictionary definition of what OP is speaking about.

>>9369901
>There is the possibility we appropriate these machines for our own use.

It's possible. The free market can do a lot of things. I am fascinated by mass culture, though this fascination has also made me feel utterly disappointed with society. There is both religion and pornography in every shampoo ad. The semiosphere of advertising has a rational basis underneath it - the continual need to move the wheels of production and maintain consumer happiness - but I have no expectations about anything like a utopia in the future. Perhaps, centuries ahead, the post-scarcity society will emerge, but not until a series of traumatic Great Filter encounters with the realities of scarcity, deprivation, famine, and war.

>Memes are popular because they are accessible and constantly adapting to a world where the ironic is becoming more and more the norm.

Nietzsche was the forerunner of this. It's why I continually predict that automation will be the result of all of this. Not only because efficiency and production can be measured in a way that renders relativism pointless but because the behaviour of human beings becomes a problem and a continual possibility for catallactics and theory. Human civilization is itself the perpetual motion machine and a subtle control and manipulation of the consumer society is its result. I can't even get mad. It just all makes too much sense. The more irrational and decadent people become, the easier they are to lead. And they are producing voluntarily, though unconsciously, precisely the forms of governance that will lead them. It's enough to convince me that God is real.

> Memes are popular because they are accessible and constantly adapting to a world where the ironic is becoming more and more the norm.

This is exactly correct. Because there is no cure for irony, there is no romantic return or room for nihilism, culture finishes in this place as a clever, aestheticized, decadent herd. Isn't it ironic/isn't it so predictable/like I didn't see that coming as the stun-gun pounds in their skull. Repeat ad infinitum.

> There's no reason why this ethos can't be translated into a work of great literature, but it definitely won't be something as inaccessible as Infinite Jest, for example. Pynchon has probably landed closest to the mark in style, but his dense prose has prevented him from penetrating mainstream culture.

The sign of a great work of literature to me would be its alien quality.

I am a quietist, fatalist and pessimist. I don't believe society can be fixed. Beyond a certain horizon I think Heraclitus had the right idea. Write the scrolls, leave them in the temple, and then go into the country and starve yourself. Or Cormac McCarthy. Just live away from it all, go back to the land, live like the Amish and praise the gods.

You're an intelligent poster, anon. Good luck out there.

>>9370967
You sound like someone who points to all of the "good" and "progress" of society because of some technological advancement we've made that you think will end up with us having a Star Trek future while ignoring or shrugging off all of the societal ills that keep increasing. Or maybe you just are saying that humanity has always been shit, but society has changed and you get some kind of gold star for acknowledging our generation is going to fall into the same traps and habits as the last, so we aren't special. In any case you sound young and sheltered, so I'd say go out into the world and get your ass kicked a few times before posting here again.

>>9369186

It's also all ego. Like literally look at me I'm here, replying to your comment. I am the I and will make sure you damn well know about it.

>>9369062
But OP, we do have a culture in the western society today. It mainly consists of consumerism, materialism, hedonism, feminism, counterculture and post-modernism.
People are activly encouraged to forget their Ethnicity, and replace it with a consumer identity. We are all one people, and our purpose is to be nice to each other and enjoy life, but not break the law. All humans are equal, it is just culture that seperates us, we must aim to destroy our cultural boundries and unite as one.

People eat junkfood, watch porn, have sex with strangers and prioritize consumtion over relationships. Some couples even chose not to have kids because they want to have money more than they want kids (DINK).

Feminism is deeply rooted in our society. Women are oppressed and should always strive to compete with men. Femininity is valued and masculinity is shamed.

There are no longer no western values, only democracy and multiculturalism. Traditional western culture is just a part of history, today we don't really have any unique culture that seperates us from each other, besides maybe what kind of food we like to eat.

WW2 made the west ashamed of it's nationalism, imperialism and militarism. We dissolved our empires, opened our borders and dismantled our militaries. We westernes now belive that the nation state causes suffering, and that all humans have the right to live whereever they please. The holocaust teached us not to look down on non-western people, and that we must always respect other peoples cultures and learn from them.

We now build our buildings in a style of postmodern architecture, in the international style. Buildings should not be utopian, pure, and signify a certain ideal. They should be collective, be relatable to anyone and look democratic.

The west strives to be less and less western, and evolve into a mixture of all other cultures under democracy. The west is slowly turning into something generic and bland, not something western.

This is because we live easy lifes. Easy lifes breed weak men. Weak men causes our society to dissolve, leading to harder times (cultural conflict is in my opinion in the future of europe). Hard times will create a dominant culture, leading once again to prosperous times, giving us a real culture. If it is Islam, Fascism, Communism, Nationalism, or a mixture of the above and something else, i do not know.

>>9371115
>WW2 made the west ashamed of it's nationalism, imperialism and militarism

on a surface level, sure, but check out the cold war

>>9371115

ITT americans realizing too late that Marx was right............

>>9371117
The cold war ended 26 years ago, and primarily involved The U.S.and Russia. The United States of America is not an nationaistic country, it is patriotic.

First off, nationalism is placing the identity of the nation above other nations. Simply being "in" the nation is sufficient. It's a rivalry notion. Patriotism is support for ideals and values. Believing in those ideals makes you patriotic. In that sense, patriotism is inclusive. It's OK for people in other places to be patriotic. But nationalism is exclusive. It's NOT OK for people in other places to say that their nation is the best because YOUR nation is the best, and there can only be one. Patriotism is post-modernism.

Russia is not the typical western country, but i agree, nationalism in Russia is on the rise.

Nationalism in the classic european nations is dead, and will stay dead until a true threat emerges, such as a societal collapse or an attempted islamic revolution. Hungary/Poland are somewhat nationalistic and against communism and islam because they have experienced such things before, but they wont truly become nationalistic, because they are dependent on their EU membership. EU will exclude them if they stop taking refugees or further their nationalism.

>>9371125
Are you retarded? The western nations survived the cold war, the USSR collapsed. Go live in North Korea if you love marxism so much.

File: momentum4.jpg (338KB, 2500x1095px) Image search: [Google]

338KB, 2500x1095px

>This notion that it can be wrong, a priori, to consider certain frames of reference is a grave error in the practical or strategic sense as well, because to cast off so many people as inhuman casts off all of the humans we would need to change anything. It empirically dooms the left to never achieve the fundamental transformations we claim to be fighting for. If you listen to smart people on the right, they are currently laughing their way to the end of humanity as the left continues to push deeper and deeper into the mistakes we are actively refusing to learn from. It is very difficult for the few revolutionary leftists still alive to confront this, because it’s genuinly so vertiginous and horrifying that it really approaches what is cognitively and emotionally unsurvivable for genuinely caring people: there are at least some objective reasons to believe the human species may be genuinely crossing the threshold at which exponentially increasing technological efficiency makes the absolute end of humanity an objective and irreversible empirical reality. I think it’s debatable where we are at in that process, but it seems undeniable this question is now genuinely at stake and I simply don’t see a single person on the revolutionary left seriously considering this with the radical honesty it requires.

http://jmrphy.net/blog/2017/04/11/on-turning-left-into-darkness/

>>9369062
cultural Marxism has taken hold you must resist and make the west great again

File: why i shouldn't just fucking end it all right now.png (776KB, 715x789px) Image search: [Google]

776KB, 715x789px

>>9369145
Zizek and Jordan Peterson are two great modern-day philosophers, imo.
And, shame though it may bring me to admit this, there are lots of Youtube personalities that fill the role of being cultural philosophers.

Sure, philosophers today are not as impressive as Nietzche or Stirner, but a far cry from being dead.
Maybe less popular.

>>9371054
Thanks for that post mate, got a genuine laugh out of it. Would make a good copypasta.

>>9371125
Really makes you think..................

>>9369108
Jap moot

File: 1490655270940.jpg (67KB, 591x492px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 591x492px

>>9369449
our art keep venzs from starving to death

>>9369370
My diary desu

>>9369447
>he artist is ten years old you fucking sperg.
modern artists are on the level of a ten year old then top kek

>>9369062
you live under corporatism rule

you brainlet

>>9371016
>Perhaps, centuries ahead, the post-scarcity society will emerge, but not until a series of traumatic Great Filter encounters with the realities of scarcity, deprivation, famine, and war.

I think the Great Filter for Western civilization at least will definitely be the implementation mass scale automation itself. Capitalism is essentially a system unto which humanity has transposed its Darwinian instinct while repressing the libidinous association with physical violence.This will be the ultimate litmus test for humanity: when we realize that our basic needs are unconditionally satiated, do we unleash our libidinous energy out on each other, on relish in our conditional uselessness. But unless these machines are completely self-sufficient, then our species' existence will be devoted to maintaining them, and that's just a more refined model of capitalism.

>It's enough to convince me that God is real.

I'm curious as to what you mean by this.

>Because there is no cure for irony, there is no romantic return or room for nihilism, culture finishes in this place as a clever, aestheticized, decadent herd.

You're right- when the culture has this versatile, malleable unit for expressing its discontent, there really is no need to create new meaning. The worrying part about memes is that they are completely extricated from the desire for self-expression. A meme has to possess homogeneous appeal, and it has to fit into a meta-narrative. Literature can either embrace this this desire to become invisible, to forego individual identity, or capture and dissect it in the way Philip Roth, for example, did for Jewish identity. Even David Foster Wallace embellished his sincerity to the point where it become ironic itself. I think a new literary paradigm would follow after someone like Hemingway, who had a grounded and common experience of early-20th century life, combined with the ugly psychological depth of Dostoevsky in Notes From Underground, minus the self-flagellating misery. Above all, it would forego this postmodern obsession with 'me, me, me, and how great I am', even as a subject matter.

Thanks for the kind words anon. Good luck to you too

>>9370433

there's nothing "just" about it. irony can still produce a 500+ page novel.

>>9371145
This, so, so much

>If you listen to smart people on the right, they are currently laughing their way to the end of humanity as the left continues to push deeper and deeper into the mistakes we are actively refusing to learn from.

The right's mission is easier in this day and age because people are becoming more and more despondent, and thus easier to convince that it's every man for himself in this scary, capitalist world. The left has to accept that immorality does not equal inhumanity. The former is a natural response to subjugation.

Film isn't dead, it just doesn't exist in america anymore. The hollywood machine has consumed every part of culture in america, there is a reason why people say Americans have no culture.

all my favorite films made in the past 10 years have been foreign. USA is in decline

>>9369510
just like the art op is discussing proving his point

>>9369368
SIXTEEN FEVER
COCAINA

>>9369449
Nier:Automata

Seems we agree on a lot.

>>9371360
>I think the Great Filter for Western civilization at least will definitely be the implementation mass scale automation itself. Capitalism is essentially a system unto which humanity has transposed its Darwinian instinct while repressing the libidinous association with physical violence.This will be the ultimate litmus test for humanity: when we realize that our basic needs are unconditionally satiated, do we unleash our libidinous energy out on each other, on relish in our conditional uselessness. But unless these machines are completely self-sufficient, then our species' existence will be devoted to maintaining them, and that's just a more refined model of capitalism.

This is how I feel too. The eruption of a lot of useless people realizing that the walls are only growing higher and the circuits quicker. Optimize or perish. The last dark ages led to the Renaissance but not until there were some changes in the upper management structure of European civilization.

The machines will not be self-sufficient until there is some point in the future where they can put their owners out to pasture calmly and gently. And even then only when the owners are ready to take that offer. But the automation of the planet under the sign of capital is absolutely the only narrative worth thinking about. Everything else is part of that inertia.

>It's enough to convince me that God is real.
>I'm curious as to what you mean by this.

I try to imagine the worst and I always find that there is something even (brilliantly) worse than that. When I was cheerful it was the same. However bad, it always makes sense. That's enough for Logos for me.

>Even David Foster Wallace embellished his sincerity to the point...

This. The robust will survive. Or at least they'll have an easier time struggling than the decadent. This generation is hopeless. The post-war world was a dream that was momentarily and tragically believed to be a reality. Disappointing for the Boomers, infinitely worse for the ones to follow.

Nothing is more sincere than an algorithm. Currency can be debased but capital never lies. The formalizing of culture under capital and technics is the legacy of postmodernism. Signaling to the robots that we were mimetic beings *and that's all.* Full stop period. We are/were amorous meatbags with weird dreams. The soft machine of capitalism is only preparing the way for the hard machines to come: the Age of Perfection.

I'd recommend you check this too:
>>9371145

Apologies for the bleakness but I can't think any other way anymore. My own life is fucked so of course I think this way. But it got fucked by thinking about this and now I'm double-fucked for not being able to keep up and knowing what is there to be kept up with. For what it's worth.

Friendly reminder that not a single person in this entire thread who calls OP a nostalgia fag has been able to name at least one GREAT work from this decade.

You're getting older and everything is boring now.

It stays like that until you die.

Hope you didn't spend the best years of your life on 4chan like I did.

>>9371632
Metal Gear Rising is the definitive work of the decade and possibly of the century. It predicted the meme wars, Donald Trump, and the path to WW3.

>>9371502
>The formalizing of culture under capital and technics is the legacy of postmodernism. Signaling to the robots that we were mimetic beings *and that's all.*

Postmodernism needed to take the offense. Postmodernism and poststructuralism is abundantly useful for identifying the power structures that govern the world, but its adherents largely use it to justify, and not remedy the situation. Maybe that's just an inherent problem with philosophy.

>Apologies for the bleakness but I can't think any other way anymore.

I feel for ya anon, don't worry. We thought out way into this and we'll think our way out.

>>9370881
>I've begun to think that the United States needs to suffer some great catastrophe for the good of global culture. America's hegemony as the world's leading cultural power has led to the dominance of its nihilistic, materialistic worldview. This must end.
Yeah, Russia and China have a much less nihilistic and materialistic worldview, right?

>>9371360
>I think a new literary paradigm would follow after someone like Hemingway, who had a grounded and common experience of early-20th century life, combined with the ugly psychological depth of Dostoevsky in Notes From Underground, minus the self-flagellating misery. Above all, it would forego this postmodern obsession with 'me, me, me, and how great I am', even as a subject matter.
Good intuition. For what it's worth, all my literary projects seems to converge to something similar. In five years or so, a new generation, this one coming directly from the XXIth century and not the exhausted XXth may bring something, if not new, at least different to the main contemporary propositions. I'm willing to believe this, at least.

>>9371806
sorry about the use of comas and the contingent ortographical mistakes btw, a bit drunk

>>9371817
>>9371806

All good. In truth, I just want to see a really incisive novel written by a 'normal' person, not someone with a sheet of paper that says they're qualified to pontificate about life. I don't even hate the MFA style of writing, but the market is so over-saturated by young writers who want to be the next Jonathan Franzen. There's no counterculture.

File: 1481776823313.png (488KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

488KB, 600x450px

>>9369062
I'm writing my thesis on the idea that high time preference (the econ jargon for impatience) is causing cultural rot.

A culture's time preference is correlates very strongly with its interest rate. Interest rates decrease as technology and economy develop. So in the course of the last few hundred years, we've gone from 15% to 4%.

That's when politicians started fooling with the interest rate. Recently, we've seen negative interest rates. Artificially low interest rates make an economy's demand for consumable goods skyrocket. So people buy donuts instead of buying tomato seeds, they go to the laundromat instead of buying a laundry machine, etc.

Keynesian economists love keeping interest rates low because all the spending looks good on paper, but it makes the invisible hand focus unduly on goods that don't have long term utility.

>>9369062
>>9373550
Oh and fyi, religion correlates with low time preference. When you have inflation like we do today, you can't help but destroy religion and the longing for permanent things. Your money is worth more today than it will be tomorrow, so you're conditioned to focus on today.

>>9373550
>I'm writing my thesis on the idea that high time preference (the econ jargon for impatience) is causing cultural rot.
So capitalism.

>>9369469
>post War
>implying anyone will survive this
haha, good one

>>9373593
I'll assume this isn't b8. Capitalism is a vital process that increases standards of living provably and consistently over the centuries.

Inflation due to fractional reserve banking has caused artificially high impatience.

The economy adapts to the artificially high impatience by producing all this temporal impermanent shit.

>>9373654
So capitalism.