The Republic: Book X - Ion vs. The Poetics

>>9357731
What are you trying to accomplish with this anon?

>>9357748
Just wanna know /lit/'s opinion on these mofos and their varying opinion on the imitative art.

you're taking thesequotes out of context

>>9357731
Is Plato in that quote talking about all art or only about art which imitates other art?

>>9357901
Plato is talking about imitations, which is everything an artist could do. Be it literature, sculpture, painting, but he's pushing his agenda forth towards poetry. Since he believes that the artist is the inferior being (God or the Idea > The Carpenter or the Creator > The Imitator or the Artist) then that only means that everything it does is considered trash.

Plato believes that a perfect Republic needs to be filled with people who thinks. People with logic. He believes that emotions hinders logic. Since Imitators brings forth emotions, he believes that they have no place in his idea of utopia.

This kind of thinking is the reason why a lot of literary works back then had been destroyed. If it weren't for Aristotle's effort to preserve them then we probably won't have Iliad and Odyssey.

God or the Idea is the most superior thing which can be seen in the painting Creation of Adam.

The Carpenter or the Maker then creates the idea. For example, a chair! The Idea told the Maker to do a chair and so now the is a chair!

The Imitator or The Artist is the one who looks at the chair and painted it. He didn't really know what the chair is. He didn't know how it was created nor he didn't know how it felt. He merely imitated it to bring forth its emotion and its beauty through art. Plato believes that this illusion creates chaos on the people and that is not good for his Republic.

Poets shall be banished, so he says. Then Aristotle told Plato that he just had poor taste in literature.

>>9358233
>Plato believes that a perfect Republic needs to be filled with people who thinks. People with logic. He believes that emotions hinders logic. Since Imitators brings forth emotions, he believes that they have no place in his idea of utopia.
That's pretty harsh. What exactly drives men in a society like that? The "logic" that the act of working in itself unto death is worthwhile?

>>9358253
Exactly why a shitton of literary critics branded Plato as someone who have just have a shit taste in literature. He's probably also a sociopath. And he probably doesn't exist.

I believe that the Houyhnhnms in Gulliver's Travel is a mockery of this.

Aristotle told in the Poetics that there are two types of poetry. Tragedy and Comedy. Tragedy is the G O D T I E R taste while Comedy is not so good. He defended that its because Tragedy needs time and effort to do. Needs to effort to conjure fear and pity in one work. While comedy is just something that makes you laugh.

Both of their ideas are flawed but I'll stand with Aristotle all day! Plato's ideas are just pretty trashy to me.

>>9358233
>a perfect Republic needs to be filled with people who thinks. People with logic. He believes that emotions hinders logic
There is plenty of place for thymos in his Republic, an entire caste in fact, and you're making things up.

>Since Imitators brings forth emotions
He never said that is the reason.

>>9357731
You don't really understand Plato's views until you read the statesman, or understand the role of myth in dialectic.

>>9357731

>But my dear Socrates, you retarded old faggot, consider the form of beauty. Surely, you concede that beauty may inhere in works of mimetic art, as you have mentioned dozens of times before. But since this is the case, that must mean that mimetic artwork participates in true existence. Further, your idea that mimetic artwork cannot confer knowledge to those who perceive it is plainly self-defeating, as you have already used analogies that work through mimesis to explain your own worldview, as a prerequisite for even making your point against mimetic art.

Thrasymachus did nothing wrong. The only reading of book X of the republic that isn't plainly inconsistent is a thoroughly ironic one.

>>9358511

Not that guy, but

>Since Imitators brings forth emotions
>He never said that is the reason.

Yes he did, It's part of his threefold critique. Mimetic artworks tend to speak to the lower parts of the mind. He plainly says they " it irrigates and tends to these things when they should be left to wither".

We're not talking about how he referenced Gulliver's Travel? Nigga that's weak af