Wittgenstein Guide Updated

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Nice effort.

Im about to dive for the third time into his works from tomorrow on and have a big folder similar, at least in intention, to your guide.

Allow me, in a constructive spirit, some remarks:
>you lack some primary sources, such as his correspondence, private/public occasions, his secret war diary, among others.
>the grammar is a random chunk made by rhees from the so called big typescript. it shouldnt be listed as a book.
>questionable order. for instance, OC RoC and LWPP go together. the latter are from a different period from the RPP, even if the names are close.
>where is von Wright? his catalog and his book are fundamental.
>id list some of the memoirs from people who knew him first hand, such as Malcolm Engelmann Drury etc
>you include a lot of academic philosophy that is mere appropriation from philosophers that had nothing to do with him while leaving aside related stuff such as the books 'discussions of w', wthe house of w' or the series 'portraits of w'
>no prototractatus!
>nothing from the vienna-fin-de-siecle context, such as toulmin's book
>nothing on his architecture!
>joachim schulte is his best german exegete, he has published a couple of books on him. theyre a must.
>

the book 'w a critical reader' has a complete list on primary sources in english. his exegetes made a bit of a mess with his stuff in the publications, but the serious reader can gather some order in there from serious publications. there is so much junk that it is hard to filter.

Anyway, as I advance on my reading Im sure some ideas will sprout from past readings so maybe Ill be coming here to discuss them.

I remember we had some years back a reading group here on lit. I was there for the 1st one on the PI. I know there was another one on OC. Maybe we could plan something similar in the near future.

>>9355900
>>you lack some primary sources, such as his correspondence, private/public occasions, his secret war diary, among others.
These will be added soon.

>>the grammar is a random chunk made by rhees from the so called big typescript. it shouldnt be listed as a book.
Correct but it helps to give an idea of the publishing history.

>>questionable order. for instance, OC RoC and LWPP go together. the latter are from a different period from the RPP, even if the names are close.
Yes, you are correct but I have organised these chronologically as to the time they were written (based on the accounts of their prefaces). I am soon going to offer advice as to how one should read these works.

>>where is von Wright? his catalog and his book are fundamental.
Yes, you are correct. He shall soon be added.

>>id list some of the memoirs from people who knew him first hand, such as Malcolm Engelmann Drury etc
I have included Drury and Malcolm's memoirs. Engelmann will soon be added.

>>you include a lot of academic philosophy that is mere appropriation from philosophers that had nothing to do with him while leaving aside related stuff such as the books 'discussions of w', wthe house of w' or the series 'portraits of w'
Thank you for your suggestions.

>>no prototractatus!
This will be added.

>>nothing from the vienna-fin-de-siecle context, such as toulmin's book
This will be researched.

>>nothing on his architecture!
This will be added soon alongside his interest in the Clarinet.

>>joachim schulte is his best german exegete, he has published a couple of books on him. theyre a must.
I will research these.

>>9355900
>>9356031
Also, would you like to meet up and discuss W?

hey anon or spaft this looks unreal

just curious to know what your background is

did you study wittgenstein in college / are you an autodidactic learner? why did you decide to write a guide on wittgenstein? obviously he is important to you, has his philosophy profoundly changed your life?

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>>9356054
well as i said right now im just rediving into it after some time so its not too fresh. ill be around tho. in some days im sure ill have the wittgenstein in bloom.

and i forgot an important one!: you also lacked the most relevant opinion about wittgenstein in all history lol

>>9356084
>did you study wittgenstein in college / are you an autodidactic learner? why did you decide to write a guide on wittgenstein? obviously he is important to you, has his philosophy profoundly changed your life?

I despise Academia so I learned by myself by downloading books and purchasing second-hand copies through Abebooks.com.

I wrote this guide as there doesn't seem to be any chronological guide to Wittgenstein's works and many people upon first reading him (like myself) become confused as to the manner in which his manuscripts have been collected and published. How does the Big Typescript relate to the shorter books etc. and a lot of remarks are repeated between texts.

His philosophy has had such a profound affect upon my life that to describe it here would not only be insincere but wholly inappropriate. I have become obsessed with his works in the past year. I care not for his personal life and if it were up to me I would omit all the diaries and letters from the Guide but it is important that I sustain impartiality.

>>9356136
>I care not for his personal life and

that is a respectable position, but I think it is impossible to ignore the fact that his philosophy was not just some intellectual play he did on the side but was a vital struggle that was at the core of his very existence. thats what give it value imo. that he was not just a philosopher but was simply someone who used philosophy in a much wider activity. or if you want, he is closest to what philosophers were in ancient times, where philosophy was part of life and therefore inconceivable unlinked to it (this has been nicely put by Pierre Hadot who, talking about the ancients, has compared them with wittgenstein).

Do you have something about the relation of Tolstoy and Wittgenstein? W. said Tolstoy's Gospel in Brief virtually kept him from killing himself

>>9356198
Yes, you make a valid point. I suppose I detract from any comments on his life as I don't wish to be associated with hacks who care more about that than his work. Many people tend towards a peculiar fascination with it. Especially *cough* those "editors" who omitted certain passages from their publications of his work.

>>9356223
Toulmin's book, Wittgensteins Vienna, has some illuminating lines about that. I remember that I felt compelled to read Tolstoy when I read that. I didnt in the end tho...

>>9356225
ah of course. theres a lot of controversy around his life and there is indeed a lot of people only interested in it as a spectacle. but that doesnt mean one is to go to the other extreme, the issue can be treated seriously.

>>9356223
You will find his comments on Tolstoy in 'Culture and Value' and 'Wittgenstein in Cambridge: Letters and Documents 1911-1951'.

Yes, it was supposedly the only book he found in the shop and he would recommend it to his fellow soldiers during WWI. Wittgenstein read 'How Much Land Does a Man Need?' as well and would recommend that short story to his friends asking them if they understood the moral principle behind it. He read other Tolstoy works according to his letters and would recommend them. He was also critical of Shakespeare and he may have been influenced by Tolstoy on this as Tolstoy notoriously didn't like Shakespeare but I am not sure, I will have to research as to whether the dates match up.

As to books about the specific association between them, I cannot help you. I have read many articles online though. I am yet to read 'Wittgenstein's Vienna'.

I highly recommend 'How Much Land Does a Man Need?' It's a wonderful short story that profoundly affected me. The link to it is in the guide.

>>9356239
>but that doesnt mean one is to go to the other extreme, the issue can be treated seriously.

Yes, you are correct here.

>>9356086
>>9356198
>>9356239
You seem to have a tendency towards the French tradition from your mentioning of Deleuze and Hadot.

I didn't know about this episode of Deleuze discussing Wittgenstein. Thank you for the information.

I'm just trying to get into Wittgenstein more substantially. I come from a hermeneutic phenomenology and general German idealist background so my thought is totally dominated by the metaphors and perspectives of that stuff. I had a seminar with a brilliant Wittgensteinian thinker (himself a late convert from idealism) and he just blew my mind. I wrote page after page of notes as fast as I could, it was just incredible.

One thing I wonder if you experienced Wittgenstein guys notice is that there is a little built of a cult mentality surrounding him, among his current devotees. I hate to say it. By coincidence, I happen to know a lot of cult-prone intellectual types, and to have experience with similar things - Korzybski, for example. It's an extremely similar vibe among some of these guys. There is a little TOO much veneration, a little TOO much praise and worship for the Great Master, too much self-flagellation about how the Great Master was the only one great enough to ever figure this out, etc.

>>9356317
yeah, even if of course in english there are great commentators like Baker/Hacker and others, my guide has been the french scholarship on him. There are people who studied and digged on every detail of his philosophy and life and have widely written about it, like Bouveresse or Chauvire.

And Deleuze on W is a joke, his take on philosophy is something quite at the opposite of Wittgenstein's anyway. This comparison is explicitly mentioned by Hadot in a footnote in his introduction to 'What is ancient philosohy', if youre interested on it.

>>9356355
I'd be interested if you could find the footnote or elaborate on how you think they were opposites.

>>9356353
>One thing I wonder if you experienced Wittgenstein guys notice is that there is a little built of a cult mentality surrounding him, among his current devotees. I hate to say it. By coincidence, I happen to know a lot of cult-prone intellectual types, and to have experience with similar things - Korzybski, for example. It's an extremely similar vibe among some of these guys. There is a little TOO much veneration, a little TOO much praise and worship for the Great Master, too much self-flagellation about how the Great Master was the only one great enough to ever figure this out, etc.

This was precisely why I expressed reservations earlier in the thread about including his diaries and letters in the guide.

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>>9356359
well, ive the source in french but the thing is something like this: for Deleuze philosophy is the creation of concepts while for Wittgenstein it is a corrective activity that is to be made only to clarify problems in a descriptive way. ie for D it is an active enterprise of creation whereas for W it is a negative activity of correction. One is mainly intellectual and the other is mainly practical. For D philosophy is part of the ideal life, for W an ideal life wouldnt need philosophy.

Lemme look for that quote in english...

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>>9356359
>>9356388
wait i got it mixed. that quote is a contrast that Hadot makes between his own conception of ancient philosophy and that of D/G, conception that he then compares with wittgenstein later in the book, or maybe it is on his other book on essays about W.

the point is made in the introduction itself. theyre a few interesting pages that can be read on their own.

heres the book http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=C8B2E54720762F5973AA264C8DFB2408

Not a huge Wittgenstein guy but this is a cool idea and your guide looks thoughtful and interesting. Good luck getting the fly out of the bottle and so on anon.

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>>9356274
>How Much Land Does a Man Need?'
That is a nice story on greed - here is a magic card with flavour text you would no doubt enjoy

>>9356353
> By coincidence, I happen to know a lot of cult-prone intellectual types, and to have experience with similar things

Could you tell us some stories about these people?

What makes some philosophers more prone to attracting cult like veneration?

>>9356136
>>9356198
>>9356225
>>9356353
>>9356386
>>9356561
Nineteen-year-old mega brainlet reporting in. I found a picture book (graphic novel?) just a few months ago called "Introducing Wittgenstein" which contained quite a bit about his personal life. I won't even pretend to understand his philosophy, but that little book unironically changed my life

>>9356775
I got that same book as well?

> changed my life

In what way?

>>9356788

I might be exaggerating when I say "changed my life," since this was only last winter. But so far, it certainly feels that way. What anon said here (>>9356198), specifically "his philosophy was not just some intellectual play he did on the side but was a vital struggle that was at the core of his very existence," is what left a mark on me. I was compelled to start thinking a little harder, reading a lot more, questioning my behavior, etcetera, and I haven't slowed down a bit since. I've been getting rid of some of my possessions, as well as going through forty-day periods of fasting from activities such as listening to music or browsing the Internet. Just very small stuff, baby steps. It's been interesting so far.

>>9356873
>I've been getting rid of some of my possessions, as well as going through forty-day periods of fasting from activities

I have been going through this as well, brother (not the person to whom you replied). This is good, keep it up. Cleanse yourself.

>>9356873
That is interesting, have any other philosophers youve studied had a simmilar impact?

>>9356886
Thanks for the encouragement.

>>9356887
Ah, well I haven't really "studied" any other philosophers. I'm an infant as far as all of that goes. I read the "Introducing Kierkegaard" book and got a lot out of that one too. But nothing ever stuck with me the way Wittgenstein's story did. I mean, I've always been impressionable, but never in a way where I started acting differently.

>>9356561
>What makes some philosophers more prone to attracting cult like veneration?

http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~jim/wrongthoughts.html