Why do people rant about how great Diogenes was? None of his

Peiple "like" Diogenes the same way that people "like" Stirner or Nietzsche.

I like the anecdotes around him. I also like degenerates, bums, punks. tramps, druggies, losers, slackers, shut ins etc. they're my people.

>>9329270
He's like Socrates, we only know what people wrote about him, though much more was written about Socrates.
Doesn't make him any less based.

You can sort of piece together his general philosophy by reading the sayings and anecdotes attributed to him. He's essentially Marcus Aurelius on steroids. The most useful thing I picked up in reading about him is the idea that we should always be training ourselves for the worst possible situation, which is really what the Diogenes lifestyle is all about - training your mind and body for the possibility of having to live in extreme poverty, skipping a meal today through your own choice so that if next week you have to skip a meal by necessity it's not so hard a burden to bear.

>>9329270
>pseudo-intellectual

That was sort of the point. He was the anithesis to the stuffy philosophy of academia. He provided a necessary counterpoint to them to get that dialectic rolling. Think of him as instrumental

>>9329270
Because no one actually likes Diogenes. What they like is a blank slate with a few aphorisms attributed to him that they can dump their own personal philosophy on to.

>>9329281
But Nietzsche is a real philosopher.
He's also a destiny, and he's so wise, and his books are so good.

>>9329270
Contraians that shits on pretentiousness is important for nipping decadence in the bud.

>>9329295
>degenerates, bums, punks. tramps, druggies, losers, slackers, shut ins
literally all applicable to me goddamn

>>9329341

>this makes Kant cry

>>9329719
Crusties on my /lit/?

He's a '>reads philosophy once' figure like every other major Hellenistic figure or movement.

HAHA IM SO TOUGH AND LOGICAL BRO I LOVE STOICISM HEARD ABOUT THEM LAST TERM WHEN I TOOK THAT PHILOSOPHY 101 ELECTIVE PRETTY GAY OVERALL BUT STOICS WERE COOL

Disgusting

>>9329719
we'd make fast friends.

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>>9329564
This. We need more weird fuckers.

>>9329270
>None of his works survived
>his works

r u fucking serious?

>>9329808
what faggot?

>>9329813
there are no works by him cause he never actually wrote anything down

>>9329995
false

>>9329270
>mad because am too cucked to ever do what diogenes did
>mad because can't relate with man who is satisfied living alone among the dogs
>mad because more libertine spirits identify with the mercurial zen-like spirit of ancient hobo
lmao son try to be less mad

>>9329995
>No writings of Diogenes have survived even though he is reported to have authored several books. All we have is a number of anecdotes concerning his life and sayings attributed to him in a number of scattered classical sources, none of them definitive.

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>>9329719
noice

>>9330148
>>9329719
>spotted the edgy teenagers
Yes, tell me how rebellious you are while browsing the world wide web on your Apple iPhone while sporting Converse shoes and other brand named clothing stitched together by starving slaves from third world countries

Yes... you're just like Diogenes, just like him!

>>9330163
Not a crusty, nor an advocate for the crusty lifestyle - but the "you can't participate in Capitalism if you don't support it" argument doesn't hold up

>>9330171
>Doesn't hold up
It doesn't hold up because you're a consumer just like everyone else, but you wish you weren't. You don't want it to hold up.
You're no rebel. You're no punk.

>>9330176
>You're no rebel. You're no punk.
And I never claimed to be. But the choice is that you participate in Capitalism or starve to death.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this is bait so I'll duck out quietly

>>9330180
>But the choice is that you participate in Capitalism or starve to death.
No it isn't, you fucking autist.

>I'm pretty sure this is bait
The only one baiting is you. You're a retard with no arguments

>>9330201
this is why I like degenerates, bums, punks. tramps, druggies, losers, slackers, shut ins etc.

they're based and got mad chill

Not liking Diogenes is the most Reddit thing I can think of.

>>9330201
>No it isn't, you fucking autist
yes, it is you fucking classcuck

>>9330180

What does capitalism mean to you, or in other words, what am I being forced to do where the alternative is death by starvation?

>>9330360
It doesn't matter what Capitalism means to me. It is an economic system which we live in.

Purchasing anything or selling your labour is participating in Capitalism

>>9329335
Based.

>>9330524

You don't have to buy anything and you don't have to work for anyone. There's incentive for people to do those things because they generally improve a persons quality of life but nobody is forcing you to buy things or work for them. A person can make whatever they need and create their own food all by themselves so there is an alternative aside from death by starvation.

Even if, for the sake of argument I accept this idea that only alternative to participating in capitalism is starvation that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing from a moral standpoint. If an animal doesn't hunt for his food then it probably isn't going to eat and it will starve to death, this is a natural life process that serves to weed out the weak and it's the same for humans. We only need to hunt in a different way, like working for somebody or buying and selling products.

>>9330584
>make whatever they need
With whose materials?
>create their own food
With whose plot of land?

>Even if, for the sake of argument...

I'm not here to disprove the efficacy of Capitalism as a method of natural selection - I only said that one must participate or die. This, I should add, is fairly self-evident.

In The Myth of Sisyphus, Camus discusses living ones own philosophy. In Sisyphus obviously he is asking whether or not to kill one's self on principle of philosophy. The book decides to live in the end, but he cites life deniers who lived (with full stomachs at that).

Diogenes, while having a different philosophy, absolutely lived what he believed. He provided his own light, despite throwing himself into darkness.

Regardless of what our beliefs are, we should throw ourselves into them as readily as he did.

>>9330599

You can go to Alaska right no and take possession of certain unsettled land. If you live their for 5 years the government sign it over to you and it becomes yours at no cost to you. There's a lot of federal property throughout the US where it's completely legal to live on, hunt, and forage. You could also take advantage of the ocean.

>>9330639
How am I going to get there from merry old England? Shall I sail the channel on a leaf, since commercial travel is, of course, forbidden?

When I arrive - assuming I can get there without a Visa - how will I account for the fact that owning private property, granted to me by the American government after 5 years of residence, is participating in Capitalism of which private ownership of land is a feature?

>>9330163
wew lad, 2017 is exactly like ancient Greece am i right?

>>9330668

You defined capitalism as buying things and being forced to sell your labor, I fail to see how being given property falls under this purview. Build yourself a boat.

>>9330668
Then find a forest in your desiccated empire of a country to live in. Instead of looking for reasons why others are wrong, look for ways to succeed despite the pitfalls.

>>9330668
>>9330704
Furthermore, personal property and private property are two different things. Living on your own and sustaining yourself is the closest an individual can get to escaping capitalism in this age.

>>9330717

Nobody is forcing you to take possession of any property.

>>9330704
>You defined capitalism as buying things and being forced to sell your labor

Incorrect. I defined it as the economic system which we live in. I mentioned purchasing and selling labour as two aspects to address your earlier point directed at the "punks". The existence of private property is an essential feature of Capitalism - though one does not necessarily have to own private property oneself to participate in Capitalism.

>>9330706
Forests are by-and-large privately or nationally owned. If I could avoid being arrested for vagrancy, public urination/defecation, public nudity etc., I would still have to contend with the practical absence of any forageable foods.

>Instead of looking for reasons why others are wrong, look for ways to succeed despite the pitfalls.

Again, I am not here to criticise Capitalism; only your misguided statement that one can choose not to participate.

>>9330717
I don't believe I said anything about personal property. Ownership of land is private property, which is capitalist.

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>>9330524
>Purchasing anything or selling your labour is participating in Capitalism

>>9330787
Do you have an argument?

>>9330797
Of course, but this level of retardation warrants nothing but an image macro.

>>9330803
If you purchase anything, you are exchanging money for goods.
If you sell your labour, you are exchanging your services for money.

This is plainly Capitalism.
You have no argument.

>>9329295
found the kerouac fan
jk i secretly like him too

>>9330816
Wew, lad.

>>9330816
capitalism, in the sense that anyone who uses the word means, is a whole social system of productive and exchange relations, not an isolated exchange

>>9330912
Yes, I know. The point is that these are isolated acts of participating in the economic system, which is the only point I intended to make

>>9329335
what's the point in always being prepared for extreme poverty by living in extreme poverty all the time? doesnt make sense to force yourself into poverty, in the off chance that you might end up in poverty. i dont think that's what diogenes was trying to say, more that an ascetic life is inherently better than an excessive one
>>9330297
really? reddit love easily quotable philosophical cathphrases

>>9330942
>what's the point in always being prepared for extreme poverty by living in extreme poverty all the time? doesnt make sense to force yourself into poverty, in the off chance that you might end up in poverty. i dont think that's what diogenes was trying to say, more that an ascetic life is inherently better than an excessive one

In some sense it's a way of lowering your expectations and finding happiness.

>>9330816
So live as a bum then. Grow your own food. Live off the land.
You're just an edgelord who thinks it's cool to be a rebel anti-capitalist despite typing your posts from a computer some 12 year old chink lost their limbs making. Fuck off.

People have exchanged goods and services since forever. The best hunter gets more/the best meat. You're just mad that you're the loser in the game. Someone has to lose friendo, and that's you.
Stay bitter

>>9331214
I've already made plain here that I'm not here to criticise capitalism, just the idea that one can somehow choose not to participate.

Your understanding is about as good as that 12 year old chink's. Go back to /pol/

>>9331242

What's the point?

>>9329270
What is important is if the information about him is helpful, not of its true.

Reading works about Diogenes is very entertaining and inspires me to live a less decadent, more simple and self-sufficient life. It has been a positive influence and I can now say that my life has improved because of him, regardless of the factuality of the anecdotes.

He's a useful archetype, bucko.

>>9331242
You can choose not to participate. I just gave you an example of how to do so.

You can live like Diogenes now, people do, they're just called bums and tramps. Also, they're probably not as well read, etc.

You have no argument faggot

>>9329813
'he' is the wrong fucking pronoun you fucking cracker. Diogenes was dogkin, and a bitch at that.

>>9331675

Ironic Tumblr posting is still Tumblr posting.

>>9329564
6/10 b8

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>>9330163
>>9330176

>>9332434
What were the valid criticisms?
>relying on meme images because you have no argument or the brain power to come up with your own

>>9329270
augustine btfo'd him back when manuscripts were still extant

99% of lost works from antiquity didnt survive for a reason. Bitch and moan about Diogenes and Sappho all you want but the church managed to save virtually everything worthwhile, even the stuff that was 'heretical' (all of it).

>>9330952
>>9330942
abandon desire
sort yourself out

>>9329270
ass

>>9332503
>but the church managed to save virtually everything worthwhile
This is laughably fucking stupid.
Numerous works were series and only one of say 10 survived.

>Homer’s Margites
Aristotle held it in high acclaim and claimed it was to comedy what the Iliad and Odyssey was to tragedy

>>9332598
do you unironically believe that we don't have the most important stuff?

>>9333175
we don't, you retard.
we don't even know all that was lost.

what we know is numerous probable masterpieces were lost

>>9333185
forgive me if i have a hard time imagining there were more important authors than, say, Homer (The Poet), Hesiod, and Plato.

Name literally one fragmentary or referenced work that is 'more important'. only so much could be saved, and i believe that we tended to save what was best in as great a quantity as possible

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>>9329270
>Why do people rant about how great Diogenes was?
Because he was a true Ubermensch and his witty quotes and anecdotes are funny. But to consider the man influential as an idol is to be disingenuous. He was hilarious as a troll, living by example in the purest way possible against the pseudo intellectual of his era, but people seem to mostly enjoy his hilarity, rather than what he stood for.

Most people who say that he's their favorite philosopher are just a tryhard idiot trying to look cool. There's not much else to say about the man or why people hate him.

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>>9330942
>what's the point in always being prepared for extreme poverty by living in extreme poverty all the time?
So to not be reliant on anything. The Oak and the Reed fable is very reminiscent of this. If you are living is near poverty, even though you are rich, you lose much less and can recover much quickly than a man who has a palace and loses everything.

Personally, I like to think you should train yourself so that if an emergency ever occurs, it would require the smallest possible sacrifice on your end for you to return to your egotistic life. If you are weak and someone is drowning, you can safely ignore their plight, but that is simply because you are weak physically. Train yourself so that any danger or altruistic moment is of no threat to your own life and live as you will without being bounded or reliant on others.

The story about a boy drinking from the lake with his own hands, as Diogenes throws his cup in rage that he has been outsmarted by a child is representative of this. Live for yourself by bound to as little as possible.