Introibo ad altare Dei

It's fun af to read. Treat a book like a friend instead of someone trying to intimidate you to death.

>>9321499
I dunno, I liked the first half but the second half got tedious.
- chapter structured like a play
- chapter structured like a catechism
- etc.
I also didn't really care about the Stephen Dedalus character, which made it more tedious as it got toward the end.

>>9321499
Most people that like it will like it because of its contributions to literature, and how it references and plays with other works. Most people that aren't extremely into literature will only read it for the sake of feeling superior. If you've read a lot I assume it will seem clever and make you smile with all the things you'll pick up from it. For me I find it worth reading because the few things I do understand make me smile or bewilder me with entertaining new forms of prose I haven't seen before.

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>>9321499
This is a great book on Ulysses and a fine argument for it being a book for everyone and not just erudite literati who can get all the obscure references.

Ulysses was maybe the fourth of fifth piece of literature I had read, and not knowing any of the supposed hurdles or tediums I was 'in for', I happened to enjoy the whole thing cover to cover. It's a slice of life, its meant to evoke a time and place with great colour and richness, and it does so perfectly. Reading Ulysses is like stepping into 1905 (or whatever the year exact was) Dublin, simulating a time and place that no longer exists. That's why its so fun and entertaining to me. Steven is something of a charicature of Joyce himself as an "overly intellectual" young man who doesn't fit in with his society. Bloom is the kindhearted cosmopolitan (his sexual perversions merely make him all the more human) who doesn't fit in with his society. In both cases I feel sympathetic to them. At any rate, its just a enjoyable book. Not too much more or less.

It takes multiple reads, anon.

>>9321957
It certainly rewards multiple reads (like Joseph Campbell declaring he's read it 50 times and still enjoys it) but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it on the first run.

There's many levels to its pleasure. Two of the levels for me were language and subjectivity.

If you've ever been snowboarding there's this unique sensation of gliding you get at high speeds. I get a similar feeling from poetry and Joyce's prose. He would spend an entire day ordering the words of a sentence.

I'm reading east of eden right now, where most of the descriptions are character's words, facial reactions, events...in a word, objective. The story is crammed into the Cain and Abel template, a Frankenstein of storytelling. With Joyce, he's Stenographer of the mind. Psychological nature recorded. As he put it, it's "bald".

>>9322042
Reminds me of what Jung said of Ulysses:

"What is so staggering about Ulysses is the fact that behind a thousand veils nothing lies hidden; that it turns neither toward the mind nor toward the world, but, as cold as the moon looking on from cosmic space, allows the drama of growth, being, and decay to pursue its course."

>>9321499
plainly they're full of shit. ulysses is an entertaining novel that isn't that hard to read if you're not being a dramatic little fairy about it.

i always think to my grandmother who read almost nothing but pulp mysteries, jane austen, and james joyce. she was no scholar, she never went to post-secondary.

just read the words on the page and stop crying.

>>9322055
Yes, it's a hard idea to convey, the lack of contrivance or construction in Joyce... jung of course, very insightful but like most Germans famously opaque.

>>9322087
The deepening of the mystery is the proper function of a true artist, after all.
>>9322066
>isn't that hard to read if you're not being a dramatic little fairy about it.

bhahaha

Masochism is a perversion.
This book isn't for human beings but for modern critics, who are all perverts.

>>9322122
What's the all?

>>9322042
>There's many levels to its pleasure
This is what it was for me. Not only is the prose some of the best I've ever read, but the variety in styles while maintaining that prose is insane. It works as a novel about a day in the life of a guy in Dublin and as an Odyssey retelling. It manages to cram in allusions and references on every page without seeming pretentious (except during Stephen's parts, in which it's intentional and a pretty funny tongue in cheek take, especially during the Shakespeare discussion in the library). Also I didn't expect it to be so funny; the amount of fart/sex/genitalia jokes is surprising and works pretty well to keep it grounded. I will say one drawback was not being able to get "arse full of farts" out of my head but that's really more on me than anything else

>>9322122
>bhahaha
He's just telling you not to put the pussy on a pedestal, and to just read it. I don't see anything wrong with this.

>>9321499
Modernism ruined literature. Ignore the pseuds that fell for a meme, it's (least to say) questionable whether Joyce was a good author or not. In my opinion, Ulysses is garbage - layers and layers of obscurity without that much actual substance.

>>9321859
Refresh me on the chapter that reads like a catechism.

>>9322042
I've never heard of Joyce spending entire days on a sentence, although I have heard of Flaubert doing so.

>>9322164
I didn't either, it amused me and I agree. Alas, syntax.

>>9322155
I don't know, "is said and done" perhaps?

No book is extremely difficult to read, besides the most difficult philosophers. Going through a physics textbook is always going to be more intellectually demanding than reading a piece of literature. However, that doesn't make literature inferior. Literature isn't about the difficulty, or complexity, and should not be, unless its complexity is in service of something. Ulysses is not good because it is difficult as compared to other literature, but because of its artistic achievement. Its difficulty is a result of its extreme maximalism, Joyce's incredible memory and his ability to fit in even the most miniscule details of his world onto thenpage. I hate the new fad of reading literature the way you try to unlock an achievement in a video game, adding the finished book to your little goodreads account like a little trophy to show off the world. Its a very empty and insecure sort of movement, in my opinion reflecting a sort of inferiority complex towards other subjects. "Oh I may not be good at math, but I have read X amount of difficult books, so that must mean that I'm smart right?"

>What does one win at the end?
Please stop thinking of books like this. Stop thinking them as means to unlock something, to add something to your personality, like literature is a means of stockpiling wisdom to make yourself a greater, more interesting, more intelligent person. Sure, this may be an unavoidable part of our innate will to read them, but try not to concentrate on this shallow aspect of literature, try to overcome it and to read for the sake of loving the artistry. What do you get at the end of Ulysses? Does it make you a better person? Does it enlighten you? Maybe not. But what you get while reading Ulysses is an incredible artistic experience, a heightened appreciation of the possibility of language, and a complete immersion into Joyce's Dublin, to an extent that you could never have imagined before. So the only thing that I would say I "got" from Ulysses, if you could call it that, would be the memories of reading it.

>>9322179
What this fine anon said.

>>9321499

its very sad that you dont grasp that is simple and plain propaganda.

and neither the people who keeps Reading it and making threads about it.

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>>9322207

>>9322171
“I've been working hard on [Ulysses] all day," said Joyce.

Does that mean that you have written a great deal?" I said.

Two sentences," said Joyce.

I looked sideways but Joyce was not smiling. I thought of [French novelist Gustave] Flaubert. "You've been seeking the mot juste?" I said.

No," said Joyce. "I have the words already. What I am seeking is the perfect order of words in the sentence.”

>>9322238
joyce was such a fucking pseud lmao
self consciously writing his own biography before he even warranted one

>>9322228
unpleasant truths.

>>9322247
It's possible to be so intelligent as to sufficiently anticipate your art's posthumous appreciation and historical resilience

>>9322255
These fucking sheeple can't handle the red pill, amirite anon?

>>9322179
That's something school falls short of, 'how' to read, The imaginative dialogue with the book. Reading is so flat when it's a race. I think every word of Joyce should be subvocalized for starters. Then visualized, then felt, then the meaning toyed with. All these aspects playing with each other.

>>9322256
he was intelligent but he was also a pseud LARPing a tortured genius

>>9322263
Books straight up kill appreciation of a lot of good literature by making it mandatory. Anything you feel compelled to do under threat of punishment tends to make a person resent the activity. I had to rediscover the fact that literature was even enjoyable many years later.

>>9322265
Presuming upon the inner lives of other people you never met with damning generalizations certainly is fun, isn't it anon?

>>9322270
I meant to write "School" as the first word. Christ.

>>9322261
i suppose they just dont care. to the question, why people still buy the Beatles albums what is your answer?. its not about redpilling. its very simple, without a propaganda machinery these things would adjust themselves. what are your theory, that Joyce is still Reading because his pure talent?.

>>9322238
What is your source?

>>9322277
Yes, he is still reading because of his incredible talent at resisting death after undergoing extensive training in yogic disciplines that allowed him to ascend to the astral plane and work miracles upon his physical avatar. They say he still travels around Europe to this day, as an old man, hooded and cloaked.

>>9322270
and insecurity over dick size. That's why you see people rolling up don quixote and holding it to their crotch as they thrust into the air wondering why they're not having more fun.

>>9322265
He's a pseud because he took great care arranging some sentences and felt a sense of accomplishment from it?
This board is always stretching. You'll be able to fit a football in your ass soon, mate.

>>9322280
I was there

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>>9322287
why do I laugh at the dumbest shit

>>9322282
is this irony or sarcasm?

>>9322318
I'm just making fun of his poor grammar.

>>9321499
If Ulysses is anything like Dubliners or Portrait, it will be incredibly fun to read. I love Joyces' early works, and am extremely excited for Ulysses. I feel like most of the people who find it incredibly hard to get through to the point of not being able to finish are only used to reading YA tier literature, or they are blinded by its reputation among millennial faggots for being really hard.

>>9322179
excellent post

>>9322169
he means Ithaca, i think it's good, it's a relatively easy chapter, there's no weird shit and it isn't dense

>>9321899
This is the first non-retarded post I read about Ulysses. Finally.

>>9321499
I loved every-single-page of it, and in some chapters I hated it at the same time. It was the first time I experienced it, it just didn't feel like I was reading a book, at all. It was a different experience. I had never felt so connected to characters, Joyce's stream of consciousness is something extraordinary, it was like looking at a log of someone's mind or like the character was telling you every single thought it had and every single thing it felt. And a lot of times it felt like I was there too, sitting at the pub listening to the conversation,

Its a very fun read and very funny too, never had such good laughs reading a book like I had reading Ulysses.

About the references, besides the most obvious ones like The Bible or Hamlet, unless you are a literature scholar, you won't even realize its a reference, seriously.

Just don't take it too seriously and don't bother trying to understand all of it, just sit down, look at the window and enjoy the ride. Most importantly, read it more than one time if you enjoyed it. I have read it first translated, then read 2 other books and I already wanted to read it again in English, and I did so, and it was amazing, I got A LOT of things that went over my read in the first read.

>>9322265
This, same thing with ts eliot

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>>9322179
Cheers mate.

>>9322265
in portrait/ulysses he was a tortured genius larping a pseud

>>9321899

I really hate that book. The author really overemphasizes the "Ulysses is for everyday people" crap in the most condescending way possible. And so much of the greatness of the book is degraded into self-help kitsch.

If you really need some help with Ulysses, read Stuart Gilbert's study of it, or Richard Ellmann's biography of Joyce, or listen to the late great Frank Delaney's podcast, re:Joyce, which is really successful in bringing out the entertaining qualities of the book while discussing a lot of its insight and beauty.

>>9322318
Are you retarded or autistic?

>>9321499
If you finish Ulysses and understand all of it your dick grows five centimeters.

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>>9322179
>not just reading for a genuine laff
>The Annals, Tacitus:
>"As it was, they thrust out the tribunes and the camp-prefect; they plundered the baggage of the fugitives, and they killed a centurion, Lucilius, to whom, with soldiers' humour, they had given the name "Bring another," because when he had broken one vine-stick on a man's back, he would call in a loud voice for another and another."

>>9324970

Richard Ellman's biography is a pretty good book itself, aside from being a mere ancillary to Ulysses

I'm not reading it over the simple fact joyce is a potato nigger.

>>9321859
didn't you read portrait?

>>9321859
pleb spotted
>i didnt get all the wacky chapters
kys

>>9321499
its not that hard to read and understand at all. read portrait and dubliners first

>>9322166
>Ulysses is garbage - layers and layers of obscurity without that much actual substance.
How can you be so fucking clueless and a pleb? You haven't read it, have you? And if you have, and didn't get anything of substance, you are a really shit reader, and should stick with sci fi genre fiction and Charles Bukowski.

>>9322166
Is one of the best novels ever, m8