The Gospel of Mark

>>9305219
To drive home an important point: Even in Galilee 2000 years ago, it was damn hard to find good staff.

>>9305219
jewish Anti-Semitism

Also
>no these healing miracles are not metaphorical, he is spitting in people's eyes, putting fingers in their ears and other weird witchcraft shit.

>>9305219
rene girard directly addresses this

Christ is the scapegoat, Christianity reveals the nature of desire, violence and culture, hidden since the foundations of the world

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>>9305219
Also, the author was clueless about the geography of the area.

When Jesus sends the demons into the herd of pigs that run off a cliff into the sea of Galilee, it takes place in "the country of the Gerasenes". The problem is that Gerasa was about 20 miles from the Sea of Galilee. The author probably meant Gennesaret which was a lot closer.

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>>9305370

>>9305279
Christians are pretty big on miracles, bro.

>>9305219
>believe what you want and ignore everything else
>iseriouslyhopeyouarentthatguythatevenweatthecovenantlaughat

>>9305370
Reminder that those who believe John was written first are a not-insubstantial minority. John at the very least gets a lot of details right.

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>>9305219
>implying he isnt referring to a third party regarding the Son of Man
>Implying the Son of Man wont herald the Kingdom of God

btw, great book to the left.

>>9306768
>muh contrarianism

The people who cherry picked Daniel and Isaiah to justify the rapture arent insubstantial either, but they are equally wrong.

The really compelling stuff are the suggestions regarding the Letter of James and Proto-Thomas being contemporary to Paul.

>>9306807
http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/89545111/violent-language-clue-historical-occasion-james

btw

>>9305370

Did you take into account the possibility that the area wasn't as dry and the sea was a lot bigger and perhaps joined with the lake 2000 years ago?

>>9305396
which SMT game is this?

>>9306801
That's also an interesting idea. He's only ever called the Son of God or the messiah, but never the Son of Man. Every time Jesus talks about the Son of Man, it's in the third person. What could that entail?

There were other people who were called "Son of God", mostly kings. The title was less popular among Jews, I think, but not instantly blasphemous. It mostly meant someone was powerful and could deliver his people out of oppression. The Son of Man was what we usually mean by the Son of God.

Could it be that Mark thought Jesus was the messiah, belief in whom would bring salvation, but /not/ the Son of Man who would descend from heaven to defeat the enemies during some holy war? Did he perhaps draw a distinction between those two?

>>9305219
>Is the Gospel of Mark a satire?
You have brain damage after being immersed into this shitty culture of "omg was he being ironic? Was it a satirical commentary on modern condition?" that third-rate colleges and Internet discussion forums promulgate.

>>9306768
Are they a not insubstantial minority of qualified bible scholars though?

>>9308330
I haven't heard that, but if it did it still wouldn't have stretched 20 miles to the south east.

A simple error is the more plausible explanation.

>>9308575
It's called a joke

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>>9305219
I noticed the same dumbnesses, OP.

honestly the whole bungledness of this gospel is what etches it into my mind as almost definitely the first, most accurate one. some of the details are so real, like when they're on the mountain and the prophets appear and one of the apostles is so flustered he starts to set up a tent for them lol

>>9308575
Perhaps I should expand. I don't doubt that Mark was a Christian writing to a Christian community. But it seems like he's ridiculing the earliest of Jesus's disciples.

The definition of satire, according to Wikipedia:
> Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government, or society itself into improvement.

My speculation is not that Mark was satirizing the entire Christian community (I'd be quite amazed if they taught that in colleges), but rather that he was satirizing the first disciples, making their lives examples of how not to be a good Christian. It seems very striking, but that's the only thing I can make of it.

>>9310355
The whole story in the Old Testament is the exact same thing that you are describing with the disciples. It is a fundamental thing in Christianity that nobody anywhere is now or has ever been a good Christian except Jesus himself.

>>9308528
Historical criticism makes you a heretic. I think it is pretty clear that Jesus did not see himself as divine, and that mark thought that as The Baptist prepared the way for Jesus, Jesus saw himself as preparing the way for the son of man who would bring about the kingdom of heaven on earth, which would foresee the apocalypse and the coming of the kingdom of heaven in heaven

>>9310355
>I don't doubt that Mark was a Christian writing to a Christian community
You mean a Jesus Jew after the destruction of the temple in Judea or Syria?

There is no evidence of Paul/John's Christ Cult in mark

>>9310415
I'm not sure if it's quite the same in the Tanakh. That collection displays severe erring of Jewish people, and comedy, but those two elements are never connected. The Gospel of Mark, on the other hand, has the erring itself _as_ comedy, thus ridiculing the characters and making it a satire.

>>9310465
I call all followers of Jesus Christians. Paul and John don't have a monopoly on that term.

I'm not so sure if Mark was a Jew, though. Mark 7:3 quotes:

> For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they thoroughly wash their hands, thus observing the tradition of the elders.

Since he had to give this explanation, it seems quite clear that at least his audience wasn't Jewish. I'm not sure what that says of the likelihood of himself being Jewish.

>>9308897
I'd be flustered too. I also like that detail.

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>>9305370
epic simply epic

>>9310456
Jesus' own words:

"Truly I tell you, even before Abraham was, I am."

In Exodus, Moses asks God his name as he appears to him at the burning bush. He says in response, "I am that I am." and tells him to say "I am" has sent him.

Jesus was making a claim to divinity when he said what he said, which is why his jewish hearers tried to stone him afterwards. (John 8:58-end)

Jesus also says, "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

He saw himself as divine, claimed to be, and his apostles corroborated his claim and saw his resurrection as proof of it.

>>9311860

"Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp."

This happens frequently throughout the NT. Jesu must have been a slippery or agile kind of guy.

>>9305219
>At the cross, Jesus himself asks God why He has forsaken him

He was quoting Scripture.

>>9311932

quoting Shakespeare?

>>9311860
Thanks, that dude had no idea what he was talking about.

>>9311934
No, Psalm 22, AKA the Psalm of the Cross. It predicts a whole bunch of different details about Christs' crucifixion.

>>9311958

Could you elaborate pls? It might help the both of us.

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Is Jesus alive today and if so how do you think he is doing in likeliness failing to prove himself the Messiah as a white male hikki?

>>9311960
Go read it and then read the accounts of the cross. Really fascinating stuff.

"1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest."

"7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
“let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”"

They slapped Jesus up and told him to prophesy about who had done it. When he was on the cross they laughed and mocked him saying "If this is really the Son of God why doesn't God help him?"

"15 My mouth[d] is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[e] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment."

He said he was thirsty and so they gave him sour wine to drink. The piercing of the hands and feet part is pretty obvious, as is the dividing of his garments.

>>9311988
What?

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>>9312021
If Jesus is alive today who is he and how would he be doing? Would he not in likeness be a hikki?

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>>9311988
1 answer

>>9312013

Thanks. Impacting stuff there. I know the cross accounts well and the likeness here is eerie. Man, I feel for Jesu here but its apparent as divine plan. Even the sour wine given him is a sign, as his first divine act was to turn water into wine, and bring the best wine after the bad wine had been drunk. The final act of his ministering was to drink the sour wine.

I wonder how the Pharisees did not notice the similarities as they were carrying out the act. Are they, as Judas, duly punished for fulfilling prophecy? The only true answer is in the Lords message of forgiveness.

>>9312088
The pharisees were not only the religious but also the political elite of their day. They were pretty much the only ones that Jesus had a problem with. Everyone else got miracles and exhortation and teachings while the pharisees just got punked again and again. I think that even though they knew the texts better than anybody else they were too blinded by their greed for power to recognize who they were dealing with. Jesus represented a huge threat to their broken way of doing things and nothing else.

>>9312118

When he dines with the Pharisees and he doesn't wash his hands before eating, they are astonished. In the same way is the Lord astonished at how they dine on His food without being clean, because inside they are filled with greed and wickedness.

>>9311860
>"I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)
>(John 10:30)
>John

Get that second century revisionist shit out of there.

>>9311860
>>9311952
>>9311958
>>9312088
Religionfags pls go.

Psalm 82

>God has taken his place in the divine council;
>in the midst of the gods he holds judgement
wtf im a polytheist now

>>9312118
Actually they weren't, the Sadducees were more influential in terms of temple politics.

>>9311897
There was an early Christian belief that he was a shapeshifter actually

>>9305300
Where does Girard talk about this? I'm halfway through Deceit, desire and the novel and would like to get more into his works

>>9311988
Did you just assume Jesus' gender and race?

>>9311860
Every time I hear someone respond to a religious argument with "No, Jesus himself said x (John y:z) I laugh. John and Paul were making shit up as they went, it is basically fan fiction

>>9313840

So enlightened..

>>9312013
>The piercing of the hands and feet part is pretty obvious
Have you not looked up the translation? IIRC that's a pretty tenuous translation of the psalm's ambiguous wording, specifically to align it with the Jesus story.

>>9313840
>fan fiction
If anything the change from mark to John shows a shift in understanding, Mark isn't great for Christology and that isn't really even a focus.

>>9314054
Irrelevant, the time gap from 33-5 to 90-95 in a pre-literate society makes John important only in the respect of Christian perception in his time, and how it changed from James/Mark/Thomas UNLESS we can find an earlier source he used

Elaine Pagels herself has John as a rebuttal and reaction against the Gnostic tradition. Paul is harder since he was early, but he was also in conflict with the Jesus People's of Jerusalem and James himself, and never knew Jesus.