It's time to settle this, /lit/. Are there any comics/anime/manga

>>9280785
No, because they are a completely different medium. But they can be on par with the best of Western cinema.
Point in case, Hyouka.

People used to unironically insisted FLCL was high art metaphor for the inner workings of the mind of an adolescent boy. So glad that shit is over with.

>>9280785

Didn't /lit/ agree that Jerusalem had some merit?

Evangelion pre-rebuild but after EOE?

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Mostly manga is garbage. If it attempts to gain literary value by touching upon universal themes, it doesnt it hamhandedly like evangelion or in an infantile manner like Naruto's thoughts on friendship.

However, Uzumaki is better than any horror novel I have ever read, and it is because it doesnt lean on convoluted shit story telling, but artwork to convey its real point: to scare you. It tells atmosphere, does exposition on the world, and touches upon basic terror all at once.

>>9280806
>Hyouka
Mah nigga

Yes there are. I won't say what they are, though.

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>>9280785
Why do people keep asking of mediums other than literature have value as literature?

The real question you may as well ask is "Are there any comics/anime/manga that you as a reader of literature find to have artistic merit (compared to most comics, anime, and manga)"

This will get you way more useful answers.

>>9280785
Absolutely.

>>9280879
Convolution is an effective horror tool and an effective comedy tool at the same time in my opinion (When I read Lovecraft, I mostly feel amused with pity rather than scared at the character's inability to understand the situation as it has been far better explained to me than to him.

A large part of terror writing is obfuscation and ambiguity, (because just like a joke, if you explain what scares you too much it becomes less scary) but I can't call it horrifying until "the sickening realization of the hideous truth" kicks in.

I think this is where a lot of authors really fuck up. You can read Stephen King and Clive Barker and stuff, I guess, but one of my favorite "horror" moments is the realization in I Have No Mouth And Must Scream that the last living character will have to endure immortal, endless torture for another 5 billion consecutive years until the sun becomes a r d giant, and if AM learns to move Earth, or move himself outward to the outer planet, it could continue for billions and billions more once the sun collapses to a white dwarf, meaning that if Hell was fictional before, it has now been invented

>>9280814
it's true though

>>9280785
Honestly why the fuck do you care? If you enjoy those things then read/watch them. Why do you restrict yourself based on what a bunch of miserable snobs think about it?

>>9280814
It's literally true though. It doesn't take a huge brain to see it once you know/ someone tells you what it's supposed to be.

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>>9280785
Pic related

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I bought this at a local bookstore on a whim. It was surprisingly legit.

Might not be that relevant, but there are a bunch of JOP dipshits who think that you need to read Wittgenstein to understand all the DEEP concepts in the untranslated visual novel called SubaHibi and claim that it's writing rivals the classics.
By the way it's an eroge with rape and bestiality scenes and all kinds of deprived shit.

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>>9281964

>>9282103
that was a good decision

Oyasumi Punpun

>>9282107
lol just lol

i think anime・game「rewrite」is
legitimate japanese literture(´・ω・`)
hiroine's kagari is like a princess kaguya.(///ω///)

Vagabond

>>9280785

Get your back up off the wall

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>>9283109
I don't know if this post is some weird form of irony or not, but Rewrite is pretty good
also Akane is best girl

yeah a lot of it is really good

the hard line between high and low art is useful for when you dont have any taste and you have to actually be directed to whats good, but once youve figured out how to determine whats good for yourself, you realize that some anime is just as good as the best literature ever written, etc.

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>>9280785
There are tons of them.

To be sure, there are way more manga and anime which have little artistic value, but this is true of all mediums - including literature.

There are even Shonen-tier manga with loads of artistic merit.

You simply have to analyze a manga, or an anime, the same way you would analyze a film, a painting, and/or a novel.

It can't be precisely compared to literature because the mediums are not congruent in their strengths, challenges, and weaknesses, but there are still plenty of works which can be considered "high art," for the discerning mind and eye.

>Pic related is one example

Berserk

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>>9280785

>>9280785

comics:
Love & Rockets by the Hernandez brothers
American Splendor by Harvey Pekar
The Adventures of Luther Arkwright by Bryan Talbot
Watchmen by Alan Moore
Passionate Journey by Frans Masereel
The Adventures of Tintin by Herge

anime:
Angel's Egg by Mamoru Oshii
Grave of the Fireflies by Isao Takahata
Whisper of the Heart by Yoshifumi Kondo
Perfect Blue by Satoshi Kon
Neon Genesis Evangelion by Hideaki Anno
Serial Experiments Lain by Ryutaro Nakamura
Spirited Away by Hayao Miyazaki

manga:
???

>>9283177
>some anime is just as good as the best literature ever written

Kek.

>>9283187
>there are still plenty of works which can be considered "high art," for the discerning mind and eye.

Your intention is appreciated, but OP asked for literary value.

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>>9280879
>>9280925

Itou Junji is legitimately a genius.

One of the things I really love about his work is how rarely he actually offers an explanation for the phenomena in his stories. I consider this an integral feature of his work which most Western horror desperately lacks.

In my opinion, Western Horror has two major weaknesses: (a) we have a handful of horror story types and we stick to these themes religiously, and (b) Western horror stories usual offer expositions as to the origin of the horrific source.

If our lack of creativity weren't enough to altogether destroy any chance of eliciting fear (and it is), then the explanations surely do it.

Itou Junji is a master of creativity - in fact, several of his manga are thought exercises in exploring fear through specific mediums (e.g., Uzumaki, Gyo, Amigara Fault, Slug Girl, etc.,.).

These thought experiments unfold like a myceliac web. Take the example of one of his most well known manga, Uzumaki. The driving force of the manga is, "In how many ways can the shape of a spiral be scary?" Through this simple question an entire story unfolds, pushing the limits from the grotesque to the absurd, and drawing heavily on the symbolic implications of the shape itself.

I've never encountered someone who writes horror at this level of conceptualization.

Likewise, I've never seen any horror author deal with the concept of Fear in more ways than Itou Junji, and pull it off. It is truly amazing.

>>9280785
Many works of Alan Moore.

>>9283219
I like it myself but it honestly doesn't have any literary value whatsoever

>>9283295
I already addressed that. Read more carefully.

The only thing which can strictly have "literary value" is literature. This is why synonymity is highly important.

But for the dim-witted, like yourself, the McAnswer is "Yes, there are."

Save your patronizing appreciation for someone else.

>>9283222
>Grave of the Fireflies
enjoy your propaganda lmao

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>>9282103
Asano Inio is the only mangaka I've ever bought work of. If you haven't experienced Goodnight Punpun and Nijigahara Holograph you're missing out on some incredible art

>>9280785
Start with Osamu Tezuka

>>9283334
What do you think of Dead Dead Demon's?

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>>9280785
>pic related

>>9280785
No.

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>>9283341
I want him to publish more of it. The amount of extended hiatus makes me worry he doesn't feel fulfilled publishing it. So far it has been a very entertaining and somewhat sympathetic social critique and I've enjoyed reading just about every chapter of it

>>9280785
There is a problem with this question - it's the same as "what are the books that have real value as a melee weapon". You will come up with a lengthy list of examples, sure. One might even suggest that there's a strong correlation between the usefulness of a book in combat and its literary quality (because long works are on average better). As a result, young author somewhere asks his publishing house to include a long stick with every edition, because that will surely improve the merits of his creation.

In much the same vain, anime&manga (not sure about the comics) may work as a substitute for literature, but works primed for this can never be the best in either medium, at best hovering somewhere in the limbo of acceptability. This sickness already plagues film, where being visual nowdays is looked down upon as both being plebian and pretensious, somehow. But film at least shares a lot with literature through its stagecraft roots, whereas anime/manga are much further removed.

Have you considered that most serialized anime widely accepted to be great belongs to a genre? Genreification of both video games, manga and anime is not just a random trait of the mediums, but an essential aspect - adherence to "canonical form" rather than to replicating life already makes them comparable with only the works of classicism.

>>9283222
swamp thing and from hell are better than watchmen imo, would add sandman and probably unwritten just to pander to lit idiots that dont get comics

I don't believe more literary analysis in English has been made of anime that the work of Oshii. Gits 2 is essentially his homage to Tomorrow's Eve and French lit

>>9283409
Also Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig narrative (which Oshii was involved in forming) is based on the persona and work of Mishima, although they couldn't gain the copyright to his name like the could for Salinger in the previous season