when will the far right embrace islam? pic related.

houellebecq is not far right

>>9272641
This guy seems like an enormous cuck, and not necessarily in the pejorative sense

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I like to tell lefties they will lose either way, because either nationalist conservatism gains power and stops third world immigration, or leftists will let in enough '''''''refugees''''''' to kickstart Islamisation and we will simply have our reactionary revolution with a bit more exoticism.

Either way, liberalism is done for because it's an ideology without a functioning immune system that offers no gratification. It's a vacuum waiting to be filled by something more assertive.

I hope the European reactionaries win though because I like my booze and charcuterie.

>>9272641
Houellebecq is a leftist

>>9272803
He said that if the socialists win again he will leave the country.

>>9272805
The socialists aren't leftists

>>9272818
Then who is?

>>9272821
Houellebecq

>>9272803
>Houellebecq is a nihilist

FTFY

never because that was satire

>>9272826
Kek

>>9272826
What do you consider leftist about him? He thinks internationalism is a mistake, he thinks leaving behind religion is a mistake, he thinks feminism is a mistake, he thinks the sexual revolution is a mistake.

He basically looks upon modernity as one big fat mistake. In his earlier work he may have suggested moving beyond it as quickly as possible via transhumanism, but now he seems to say that we have to go back. Although we can't and we're fucked and so on of course.

>>9272803
>>9272805
>>9272818
>>9272826

Both of you, explain yourselves please. Sources.

>>9272857
He consistently identifies all of those issues as symptoms of Western capitalism, which he's critical of.

>>9272871
>only lefties are critical of capitalism

>>9272871
It's much more poignant to ask what Houellebecq isn't critical of, than what he is critical of.

>>9272803

Why is it so shameful to admit to being Right-Wing that people feel like they have to make half-hearted critiques of "capitalism" before they can safely express their right-wing views?

Let's not pretend that Houellebecq is a leftist just because he thinks the Free Market has commodified the sexual revolution.

>muh left/right paradigm

isnt it enough to assign to Houellebecq the title of iconoclast or Swiftian?

>>9272850
>>9272898

This. I have real problems seeing any positive ideology in any of his works. Even male vitality, which is perhaps the uniting "positive" trait of many of his characters, is almost repulsive in his means of description.

>>9272904
At this point, the left has shattered into so many different, sometimes competing, identities that anyone who stands against any specific aspect is labeled right wing.

Houellebecq may have some traditional socialist leanings, but in his obvious misogyny and disgust at both western liberal and Islamic cultural mores, can be safely labeled as "right"

So much for that shitty labeling system.

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I would honestly prefer Islam to liberal democracy.

>>9272641
If liberals are so enticed by Islam, why don't they all just convert?

>>9272641

He was right on everything. If instead of Macron we had a moderate muslim candidate for presidency, it would be all the same. The present campaign shows that anyone consensual will have success if people believe he's the one able to defeat Marine Le Pen.
As a matter of fact, Macron is no muslim, but it would have made no difference.

>>9272959
They arent. They believe in the acceptance of all cultures, and the harmony in governance of all peoples.

Unfortunately Islam is not just religion, it is a political/legal entity, and does not allow for competition. Furthermore, many aspects of Islam are directly in conflict with basic tenants of small l "liberalism" as reflected in the Napoleonic Code or first wave feminism and the 1964 civil rights acts. Thus, Soumission.

>>9272696
Didn't say he was, but one of the main characters in the novel is a former nationalist that embraces Islam. That seems pretty realistic to me. I've always believed that if /pol/ got past its Islamophobia, they would find much in common with the Taliban.

>>9272959
>If liberals are so enticed by Islam

They aren't. They just apply "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Left liberals in America hate capitalism, Islamists also hate America and capitalism, so they are perfect buttbuddies.

It's not a coincidence that the term "Islamophobe" is being use solely by leftists against right-wing agitators against Muslim immigration.

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>>9273057
>Left liberals in America hate capitalism
You lost me there.

>>9273093
Well, they do hate capitalism, at least that's what they say. The question is if they actually believe what they are saying.

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>>9273093
>hypocrisy is not a thing

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>>9273104
>heh, this peasant complains about Serfdom, yet his rake was made under Serfdom!

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>>9273116
>performative contradictions are actually logical

>>9272641
> implying traditional islamic followers aren't far-right

Ask your muslim grandparents what they think of homosexuals. You'll be pelted with enough fruit loaf to send you back into the days of the prophet mohammad, salaam alaikum

Religious right is the most pleb form of right wing movements tbqh

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>>9273103
The term you are looking for is recuperation. Capitalism is more than capable of profiting off anti-capitalism

>>9273161
>you can't critique capitalism if you're wearing clothes

Great argument m8

>>9272641
when houellebecq stops being a hack

>>9273179
That's no what I am saying.

What I am saying is that if you buy a new Iphone every time a new one comes out, and claim to be a committed anti-capitalist, you do not have the courage of your convictions.

It might be hard for you to hear, but there it is.

>>9272850
>leftists are all nihilists

>>9273190
except capitalism creates need to have the new iphone, to compete in its markets, fiscal and social.

ad hominem attacks are never relevant to the truth of an argument

>>9273196
Capitalism only forces you to play the game on the most elementary level, e.g on the level of the property arrangement.

You either need to work for the government, or the private sector, which means you have to associate with a bureaucratic boss, or a capitalist.

That's the extent you are forced to engage in capitalism. Literally everything else is up to you, including buying Che Guevara T-shirts and buying expensive smartphones.

>>9273192
The post-Marxist Left is definitely nihilistic, hence the New Left's infatuation with Nietzsche. Say what you will about Marxism, at least it is a coherent worldview.

>>9273209
Sick autism.

You need a smartphone of some sort to hold even menial jobs. It's like owning a car in Dallas, technically you don't have to but you really have to.

>>9272941
then fuck off back to Pakistan

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>>9272798
>Either way, liberalism is done for because it's an ideology without a functioning immune system that offers no gratification. It's a vacuum waiting to be filled by something more assertive.
>tfw

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>>9273226
>You need a smartphone of some sort to hold even menial jobs

Is this a joke?

>>9273240
not menial jobs, but if you want to have the job in which you can afford time to argue intelligently against capitalism you need a smartphone.

>>9273226

> TFW you live in Deep Ellum and walk to the office on Commerce in Downtown

>>9272798
>muh assertiveness
>muh """"authority""""
Epic LOL!

>>9272798

>Either way, liberalism is done for because it's an ideology without a functioning immune system that offers no gratification. It's a vacuum waiting to be filled by something more assertive.

The one good thing about the decline of the West is that self righteous libs are getting their comeuppance.

far-right joined islam in france when they wanted to stop same-sex marriage from being legalized

>>9272857
imo he does never imply those were mistakes, he just describes where it has lead us and how one can try to or reach happiness in these conditions. it's you who feels sorry for bruno or michel or jed or whoever. he says happiness can be achievable, yet some force majure won't let his characters achieve it (the possibility still remains tho)

>>9273278
>liberalism doesn't even have arguments

>>9273758
no sensible culture has ever allowed fag marriage, islam isn't special for this

>>9274111
yeah but post-modern bullshit > islam

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>>9274124
Post-modernism throws the baby out with the bathwater.

>>9272798
Houllebecq has spoken against the ethics of charcuterie in the Map and the Territory. He thinks it's not man's place to kill such a smart animal for meat.

>>9274460
>hen they first meet, he lectures Jed about the importance of renouncing pork products out of respect for the intelligence of pigs; some time later, surrounded by packets of chorizo and mortadella and pâté de campagne, he admits despairingly: "I've completely relapsed into charcuterie."

he's a contradictory bucko

>>9272871

Western capitalism as it exists is a product of liberalism (not in the American sense). There's no contradiction in being illiberal and right wing.

>>9274523
I feel like that relapse was emblematic of his difficulties. His convictions were made to be subordinate to his empty self comforting indulgence.

>>9273226
if it's that important, your boss will give you a phone

>>9274460
sounds like he's actually a secret muslim

>>9272904
Because Hitler.

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>>9274675
If its that important, you should have bought a phone already

>>9272798
>liberalism defeated communism and nazism
>idiots think it will fall to islam or petty-nationalism

Give it a few decades and all Muslims in Europe will be drinking alcohol and having pre-marital sex. They're probably starting to do it now.

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>>9272871

>Righties love Capitalism

What is this, the fucking 80s?

They take the Evola approach nowadays.

>>9273196

>except capitalism creates need to have the new iphone
>Blaming Capitalism for your consumerism and utter lack of will power

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>>9273224

>the New Left's infatuation with Nietzsche

I fucking WISH they were infatuated with Nietzsche.

He'd kick the Leftism out of them in no time.

>>9272798

I think it's much more likely that the left is going to let too many Muslims come in, they're going to keep changing laws that precipitate degeneracy and degrade our society's collective morality to the point where it will trigger and very violent reaction that will lead to a genocide of Muslims in Europe. There is precedent in history of this sort of thing happening. Before the Nazis rose to power "progressive" minded people ran Germany into the ground as far as morals go. For the average German the Nazis were a righteous reaction to the BDSM and prostitutes that plagued Berlin and they cleaned the streets up which earned them a lot of support. The degradation and destructive policies of the left reached a critical mass and I think we're seeing it rise again in the west. There is a limit to how far people can be pushed and it's getting close, people will not willingly live in an Islamic country.

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>>9274783
Soon?

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>>9274804
>army of nudist fascist warriors

Soon.

>>9274722
this. it isn't really hard to see if you actually interact with muslim people, there are a few at my college who at the start of freshman year were trying, but they are drinking at fucking now. it's not a path that can be rewound

>>9274884
>interacts with spoiled upper class yank muslims

That's a whole different story. Come to blue collar neighbourhoods in Europe where they teach the pious children to not even make eye contact with the kuffar and enforce shariah in the neighbourhood.

>>9274722
>>9274884
But that's literally the exact opposite of what's happening, Islam is becoming way more conservative the longer its exposed to Liberalism.

>>9274957
that's just not true. we may be seeing a micro-reaction with radical islam, but over time exposure to capitalism will bring them to where we are now. look at long term rather than short term.

>>9274974
Why do you think this?

>>9274980
because muslims (who have been the enemy of western civilization for over 1000 years) are going to integrate just like the irish and italians did, and if you disagree you're literally hitler

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>>9274884

Yeah bro your personal anecdotes totally negate all that objective evidence floating around on the internet.

Personally the idea of drunk Muslims rampaging around doesn't do much to allay my concerns, especially after those alcohol fueled rape mobs in Sweden.

>>9274980
>>9274999
>>9276010

your "objective" evidence is completely without foundation. you can skew the stats any way you want to with enough effort.

i can't tell if you guys are memeing or not so I'm not going to argue too seriously. but interact with the people who you call rapists or criminals or whatever

>>9272641
what are good translations of Hoolebeck?

>>9272803
He's a boogyman to the liberal left, check out the many furious academic articles on his work comparing it to fascism

>>9273116
>Pays for overpriced shit
>Complains about it fully aware of how shit it is

>>9274722
Not even Islam is immune to the effects of feel good liberalism. Hence the phenomenon a of hijabis literally campaigning for transgender bathrooms and sticking cocks up bums

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When will /lit/ stop being triggered by non-leftard world views?

>>9274742
that quote just cucked me

what book is that from

>>9276298

Non conforming views are literally rape.

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>>9274884
>>9274722

>Americanized inner-city "muslims"

Come to Europe you fucking faggots.

>>9276049
I have sympathy for both positions. On the one hand, western capitalism has an almost unstoppable way of atomizing and individualizing people, so a unified radical/reactionary muslim front against western liberalism is highly unlikely. Then again, it can provide no ideological or philosophical substitute.
I know from experience that muslim immigrants tend to keep a reserved respect for their religion even while they're participating in western, sinful exploits. It's not the full-blown, enlightenment-tier atheism that completely rejects every religious principle, far from it. They're superstitious, scared and often still tied to it through their family, which is why I'm hesitant to believe anyone that claims Muslims will automatically become good, western secular citizens.

What the /pol/tards claim is also partially true though, they rarely ever have an interest in participating in or preserving whatever they find in their new home countries, be it France, Germany or wherever. It's oftne alien to them and they, at best, participate in it for individual reasons, but they almost always stay outside of existing cultural traditions (Sports might be an exception, especially football). And it's not because they're excluded for racist or xenophobic reasons, it's because there's a cultural and sentimental gap that's wide enough for it to make a difference. Muslim immigrants participate in western culture through individualist/capitalist channels and the institutions they can't avoid, like School. But that's it, they have no interest in perpetuating or improving it, and the master narrative they will return to is Islam or the Nationalism of their ancestor's countries.

>>9274974
There are many examples around the world where non-Western countries are embracing capitalism but rejecting secularism and liberalism. Turkey, for example.

>>9276425

One thing that I don't think a lot of people recognize is that in the Islamic religion there is a sort of built in fail-safe to stop people from becoming too liberalized. People may find Muslims that drink lots of beer, have gay sex, and are fully accepting of whatever progressive bullshit is being forced down peoples throats but that isn't going to stop those specific Muslims from becoming radicalized. There is a guaranteed way to heaven for every Muslim and that's through Jihad. At any time a Muslim can be overwhelmed with the sin and take this guaranteed route no matter how sinful they've been in life. We've seen this happen before with the Paris attackers and the Gay nightclub shooter with how they used to do lots of drugs and visit gay clubs.

No matter how liberalized they become as a population they will always be a danger because that is an inherent theological view that can't be changed.

>>9272798
>not being an anti-immigration socialist because you understand immigration is used to keep wages down and divide workers
that being said, I hate 90% of people on my side of the political spectrum for being bleeding heart useful idiots for corporations

>>9276443
India too, that's probably the biggest geopolitical trend atm.

>>9276373

Not sure but it's persuasive tbqh

I have become anti-political and anti-economical.

Honestly the far right should just embrace the old testament

>>9276459

>One thing that I don't think a lot of people recognize is that in the Christian religion there is a sort of built in fail-safe to stop people from becoming too liberalized. People may find Catholics that drink lots of beer, have gay sex, and are fully accepting of whatever progressive bullshit is being forced down peoples throats but that isn't going to stop those specific Catholics from becoming radicalized. There is a guaranteed way to heaven for every Catholic and that's through Crusading. At any time a Catholic can be overwhelmed with the sin and take this guaranteed route to Jerusalem no matter how sinful they've been in life. We've seen this happen before with the First, Second, and all those other Crusades with how they used to do lots of drugs and visit children's brothels.

>No matter how liberalized they become as a population they will always be a danger because that is an inherent theological view that can't be changed.

>>9276530

The only guaranteed way to heaven for a Christian is to be martyred. Muslims also have this but in addition to that they're guaranteed a spot in heaven for running infidels down in semi trucks so it's not comparable.

>>9276425
top tier post

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>>9276530
True Christianity is pretty much dead in the West. It's basically indistinguishable from any other type of self-help at this point (pic related). From an outsider's perspective, Islam doesn't appear to have completely lost its spiritual vitality

When Islam adopts memes as its primary method for disseminating information.

Get on their level

>>9276530
i'm glad people are realizing that all abrahamic sand nigger cultist religions are exactly identical

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>>9277154
What a monstrous lack of perspective or intelligence.

>>9272798
I don't even think immigration is a major tenet of leftism, I'm completely okay with reducing immigration if the opposite means a rise of fascism.

>>9277291
Most non-thinking lefties love to virtue signal with welcoming'''''''refugees'''''''.

>>9277324
I don't know, anon. You can't differentiate between what /pol/ sees as "virtue signaling" and legitimate empathy and humanism. But if it derives in fascists gaining power you'll have accomplished nothing.

>>9277340
Their legitimate empathy and humanism is also retarded.

>picture of a dead kiddo on the beach, open the gates to ISIS now!

>>9277291

I wonder if some lefties advocate for lots of immigration because they understand completely it depresses wages for the lower classes. The idea is they want to create inequality in order to drum up support for the pseudo communist revolution where the government will redistribute wealth. I was watching one of Destiny's streams and he basically admitted that it was what he was trying to do. He admitted to Sargon that immigration drives wages down but he deems it acceptable because it ultimately results in cheaper products for him to consume, he knows that this is a greedy position so in order to alleviate his guilty conciseness he advocates for wealth redistribution schemes to rescue the lower classes that are most hurt by his policies.

>>9277355
You don't need immigration to tank wages.

Wages were tanking already prior to current mass immigration in Europe. Wages hadn'trisen since the 70s or if they had it was very little.

Products are already disgustingly cheap because of shit tier places like India, CN giving so much workforce for so cheap while also being productive.

Immigration's effects are drying up the public welfare system, crime rise, discord in the public sphere and rise of the anti-immigration parties which often are right leaning.

Some companies also benefit massively from immigration, like law firms when they handle their business related to being a citizen and what not.

>>9272641
Islam is incompatible with civilization.

Civilization is the product Christianity, the current state of Global Chrisitian infrastructure is in ruins after the Protestants splintered into a thousand divisions and the Jews and Communists undermined the morals of the youths.

The Catholic church is lead by the anti-christ and militant Islam is being imported, there is no hope for the current far right which causes them to cling to government led nationalism.

>>9272641
I think they will eventually. The ultimate goal of far-right movements is management of women's sexuality, and Islam is quite good at that.

What does it mean to manage a woman's sexuality?

>>9276473
>anti-immigration socialist

you mean a nazi?

>>9277723

No no no. Nazis were bad therefore right wing.

>>9273251
>you need a smartphone
fuck off, shill

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>>9277435
>Islam is incompatible with civilization

>>9274722

We're 3 generations in and they went from guys who dress in slick suits to go do their job in the mines to flying over to join a theocratic death cult.

They're not. And if they do it, it'll be hypocritically on the side, like the Gulf states their populations do.
This is typical consumerist optimism.

>>9278096

>let me post a skyline to prove my point

Why are anglo's so easily impressed?

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Detroit is one of the most wonderful cities in the world. See the picture? You can't deny this.

>>9276049

The Pew Research Centre is highly regarded and as close to an objective source of information as you can get.

I've met muslims in college as well, and guess what they're part of a wealthy elite and not representative of the wider population.

It's like comparing a white freshman at UCLA with a hick from Appalachia. Imagine a billion angry rednecks and you have Islam, more or less.

>>9278096
>posts picture of Dubai where they punish rape victims with lashes

wow so civilized

>>9273224

Ok, Walter.

>>9276473
Pretty much this, although I'm more of a Marxist than a standard socialist. I agree with and identify much more with the far right even though I'm far left simply because I see the rabid push for immigration and identity politics for what it is, an effortless way for the ruling class to fracture, divide, and maim the working class to keep us vulnerable and weak enough to not prove a real threat. Turn the people on themselves by inciting race violence (BLM) and pointless identity fracturing (LGBT), and release an oppressive plague on them (Islam) so that they're so busy just trying to keep from being raped or murdered that they have no chance of collectivizing and turning over the system.

And the few on the left who realize this are too scared and lazy to fight against it, so they fall to the idea that the system will simply collapse from its own instability. But everything that is happening now is the system stabilizing itself long term, it's not going anywhere. We're going nose-first into a hyperdivided ideology-ridden Islamic hellworld and we fucking deserve it.

>>9277435
So by your metrics the global Christian infrastructure has been in ruins for about 100 years?

>>9272641
i like islam but i still see it as my enemy
people who are against what islam stands for (not the religion itself) are libtards

>>9278373
What's wrong with that?

>>9276473

It's so refreshing to see "anti-immigration socialist". People get so lost in their 'sense of solidarity' that they can't fucking see they're being tricked.

>>9276520
>>9276373

Men Among The Ruins, I think.

>>9277454

I have a suspicion that the ultimate goal of far-right movements is a restoration of ethnocultural vitality and historic mission.

Sexual liberalism depresses birth rates and promotes an indulgent and atomised social morality - that is to say, ending it is a precondition of achieving the actual "ultimate goal of far right movements".

The more you know.

>>9272641
ISIS and various other extremist islamic groups are all far-right. to think otherwise is fucking stupid.

>>9278133
Then how do you define civilization?

>>9278445
i used to be like this, then i outgrew marx and just became a /pol/tard

>>9274722
Obviously from a biased perspective, but I was in an undergrad research program with an Iranian immigrant, and he told me the alcohol ban isn't really enforced.

I know Mexican immigrants to the US tend to drop their birth rates to native levels, does the same apply for Muslims in Europe?

>>9274742
To be fair, the shift in the mainstream American right is very recent and sudden, Republicans=Tax Cuts and Deregulation has been a pretty reliable formula (and still is in actual effect).

>>9274722

It's already been a few decades.

>>9277355
I don't think that's the actual plan for more than a few edgy accelerationists, but the logic for bringing in immigrants is pretty strongly tied to advocacy for the lower classes; lifting the proletariat above wage-slavery and lifting the third-worlder above general misery are the same basic thing from a non-nationalist leftist perspective, contradictory as the results may end up being.

Of course, there's also the hope that they'll be part of a leftist coalition, whether from cynical politicians seeking votes or your Naomi Klein types.

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>>9280028

It's like they read about the Repugnant Conclusion and thought "hey, you know what, we could actually make this work."

>>9277355
>neoliberals are leftists now
Lol

>>9274722
They've been here since the 1960's you retarded fuck, their kids are more radical then their parents are.

>>9280088

They're socially left, economically right.

Simple shit.

i think people who are saying christianity and Islam are like, the same, dude, really need to reread what jesus said and the tenets of his teachings compared to islamic beliefs. They're completely different in every way.