What comes after post-modernism? Neo-modernism?

>>9267436
irony

Reversion. Art has to make a turn back.

endlessly repetitively nothing circulation again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again again

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the duck is now a monopoly piece

A return to sanity.

>>9267436
>The basic meaning of the term "art" has changed several times over the centuries, and has continued to evolve during the 20th century as well. Danto describes the history of Art in his own contemporary version of Hegel's dialectical history of art. "Danto is not claiming that no-one is making art anymore; nor is he claiming that no good art is being made any more. But he thinks that a certain history of western art has come to an end, in about the way that Hegel suggested it would."[11] The "end of art" refers to the beginning of our modern era of art in which art no longer adheres to the constraints of imitation theory but serves a new purpose. Art began with an "era of imitation, followed by an era of ideology, followed by our post-historical era in which, with qualification, anything goes... In our narrative, at first only mimesis [imitation] was art, then several things were art but each tried to extinguish its competitors, and then, finally, it became apparent that there were no stylistic or philosophical constraints. There is no special way works of art have to be. And that is the present and, I should say, the final moment in the master narrative. It is the end of the story."

metamodernism

>>9267436
modernism is dead and post-modernism killed it
we can't go back to modernism without some massive dissonance

nrx is the future
just try and stop it
as inevitable as the setting sun

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>>9267436
lots of sex for women
lots of nihilism for men

>>9267436
Just do what you like, op.

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>>9267628
You are not alone in thinking such a thing...

Regressivism

New appreciation.

Remodernism has already come and went. It's good but it was never a feasible solution.

>>9267628
you're an idiot but you are right insofar as unbridled capitalism will consume just about everything

i-is there any way to combat post-modernism and the commodification of culture, tradition, and social justice without becoming a filthy leftist nation?

>>9267436
Stop thinking about this in terms of progression through styles. Modernism and Post-Modernism can be understood as styles or fashions but that misses the point.

The break between Classicism and Modernism comes with the belief in positivist progress and technological advancement over the classicist view of the world as eternal and fundamentally unchanging. The break between modernism and post-modernism comes with the dillisuion with positivism after Hiroshima, the Holocaust and the banality of a consumer society.

The descriptions put forward by philosophers like Debord, McLuhan and Baudrillard still function as an accurate view of contemporary society. Just because some of these books are 50 years old doesn't mean they are outdated.

People mentioning NRx, or advocating a return to tradition (either in a classicist christian sense or a modernist techno-positivism) aren't wrong to advocate these as alternatives, but they aren't fundamentally new ways to understand the world.

tldr: don't worry about surpassing post-modernism, it's still an accurate description of our ideological reality.

>>9267756
good post

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>>9267436
Nothing.

It's like asking what comes after capitalism. These aren't movements, these are conditions of your existence. Robots and automation are going to automate everything that can be automated. Life will go on as it always has, as an evanescent fantasy of middle-class life accessible to fewer and fewer in reality and broadcasted to more and more via advertisement. And perhaps eventually to be lived remotely, in VR.

Nothing comes after this. This is how it is. Put yourself in a place where you are best able to cope with it, don't expect theorists to change anything. They can't. Just put yourself in a place where there is the least amount of internal dissonance, where you have to tell as few lies as possible, where you have to represent as little as possible.

Tech is going to displace and uproot the foundations of society. In the meantime old-fashioned naive consumer life will go on as it always does, blissfully unaware, and fortunate, and dull.

Do what you can to get on the ark that is leaving this junk-ridden world.

>>9267801
My plan is to either go full innawoods or fully embrace consumerist vapidity and live happily through that

>>9267738
You fucking retard, the writers you deem as "post-modernism" were activelly writing AGAINST that, that was a huge fucking deal for the left for the longest time.

I fucking hate this, fucking capitalism commodified all aspects of life and then a bunch of retarded 15 year olds going through their first electoral cycle decide it wasn't capitalism, but communism fault.

>>9267820
It doesn't matter if they were writing against that, dummy. That wasn't relevant to what I was saying

The postmodern pattern of attempted abolishment of definition, categorization, and hierarchy has been undeniably commodified to be sold back to the rich and numerous 15-25 year old "activists" because it makes them feel good in the face of consumerism and they'll shell out top trust-fund dollar to keep that feeling rolling

I am not philosophically left wing in the slightest but I can not deny that this has all been caused by the capitalist mentality of sacrificing all sustainable things like culture and tradition for some short-term profit, and I have been trying to find a solution that isn't socialism or communism. Not because "waahh muh spooky gommies" but because I just deeply disagree with the moral and behavioral implications of left-wing political systems

>>9267873
What are these moral and behavioral implications, and most of all, how are they worse than capitalism.

>>9267879
The idea that all should be responsible for the carrying of the few, that social and political hierarchy should be force-abolished just because it's "unfair," that your existence from day one should be devoted to feeding the system you were born into

A communist society is one without goals, without hope. Humans think they want equality but they do not. That's part of why the notion of God is so widespread throughout all cultures. Humans need a level above themselves to hope to join some day. Communism starves the populace of that and will lead to an even more nihilistic culture than capitalism has

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>>9267534
The Sixth Seal has been opened.

>>9267873
>>9267873
>things like culture and tradition

It fucking baffles my mind that 4chan has become a haven for traditionalists and conservatives. This is a message board filled with porn, hentai and video game memes.

I really don't understand the backlash against leftism. The moral relativism of leftist ideologies tends to support your right to post on a weirdo message board and jerk off to fetish porn. Leftism supports your right be a weirdo, to not live up to masculine stereotypes that most of us could never attain anyways.

In what world does traditional values, white nationalism, christian revialism or just conservatism in general line up with 4chan? I just don't get it.

Get over your resentment of the SJW. They literally aren't oppressing you or ruining the world. They just want some space for their own brand of outsiderness. I think we can give them that.

>>9267738
>combat

divorce yourself from deontology completely, you are manufacturing convoluted obligations for yourself, you're getting yourself all spooked up over nothing

>>9267436
Neo-post-modernism
Duh

>>9267929
I'm not a traditionalist or conservative, bub

I see a world in which a culture's aesthetics and traditions are commodified and sold to the masses. Outrage inevitably erupts from members of that culture, and then that outrage is also commodified and sold to those looking to consume without the inherent guilt they have as leftists, even if they don't realize it.

This process, left unbothered, will continue until all cultures have been digested and trivialized for profit, and all criticism of that process will also, in turn, be digested and sold.

You don't see anything wrong with that?

>>9267929
the alt-right shit just boils down to contrarianism

the SJW hatred is because feminists scare the shit of most young men

>>9267953
>postmodernists drive neoliberal capital

>>9267902
>>9267902
>The idea that all should be responsible for the carrying of the few
That's capitalism

>that social and political hierarchy should be force-abolished just because it's "unfair,"
maybe if we didn't had 300+ years of the powerfull being a bunch of deluded inbreds, people wouldn't think like that

>that your existence from day one should be devoted to feeding the system you were born into
But that's more what we have than what communism wants

>A communist society is one without goals, without hope. Humans think they want equality but they do not. That's part of why the notion of God is so widespread throughout all cultures. Humans need a level above themselves to hope to join some day. Communism starves the populace of that and will lead to an even more nihilistic culture than capitalism has

Honestly my dude, don't try to talk to me about a society without goals or hope because this is pretty much what me and my generation have been living in our CAPITALIST country.

In a communist society, I'd be free enough to pursue my interests, be them WH40K or woodcutting, to mention two things I can't possibly apply myself to as long as I can ony get the kind of sub-employment jobs capitalism deems me worthy for.

>>9267929
>It fucking baffles my mind that 4chan has become a haven for traditionalists and conservatives.
>I really don't understand the backlash against leftism. The moral relativism of leftist ideologies tends to support your right to post on a weirdo message board and jerk off to fetish porn. Leftism supports your right be a weirdo, to not live up to masculine stereotypes that most of us could never attain anyways.
>In what world does traditional values, white nationalism, christian revialism or just conservatism in general line up with 4chan? I just don't get it.

That feel when no girlfriend. That feel when no girlfriend. That feel when no girlfriend. Why don't I have a girlfriend? Women only want Chads. Why do women only want Chads? They married betas in the old days. Why did that go away? Because of the Jews, clearly.

It all starts from >tfw no gf, which imo arises in rich countries from the inability of most men to secure satisfactory socio-economic status due to the decline of decent-paying work for people of mediocre intelligence.

>>9267976
>which imo arises in rich countries from the inability of most men to secure satisfactory socio-economic status
I think you're discounting the confirmation bias inherent to 4chan, most of us are fucking weirdos

>>9267953
I see what's wrong with that, because I'm a leftist who's somewhat aquainted with the last hundred years of critical theory, and that's ALL THE FUCKING CRITICAL THEORISTS HAVE BEEN RAMBLING ON FOR THE PAST HUNDRED FUCKING YEARS, the same critical theorists you fucking dolts accuse of promoting "cultural marxism" (lel) while you actively promote the mode of production which has caused all this situation in the first place.


I just can't deal with this shit anymore, I gotta admit, muh 100 million was actually too little, Stalin should've gone full on nuclear holocaust on this fucking piece of shit world.

>>9267993
shit not confirmation bias, selection bias

>>9267929
>Get over your resentment of the SJW. They literally aren't oppressing you or ruining the world.
You don't live where I do, dude. I live in San Francisco (for only 180 more days, thank god) and all notions of open conversation and social camaraderie have been stifled. There is little friendship across races here. Day-to-day interactions between whites and blacks especially is suffocatingly anxious, tense, and forced. All white people here (I'll even admit, including myself) are TERRIFIED at all waking moments of "slipping up" and saying something "they" don't like. This is equally unfair to the black people who don't play into this insanity because all interactions they have with white people are comprised of nervous smiles and stutters

I thought this shit was normal until I took a trip to Chicago and I was amazed at just how friendly everyone was being to each other. Even in a city with crime rates far higher than SF, whites and blacks were just comfortably striking up conversation on trains and in restaurants. There was a relaxation in the social scene that I hadn't ever seen in SF

It was one of the saddest moments of realization of my life

>>9267953
Oh yeah, I agree with the notion that a consumer society is a problem. Not just from the point of view of stupefying people, but also from an ecological point of view.

But if you ask me, the only people engaging on this topic in good faith are the "post-modernists", in particular Debord, McLuhan, Baudrillard, Foucault, Lyotard, Harroway, Butler, Zizek, etc.

I'm not disturbed by leftist criticism of consumerism being popularized, the obvious face of it being the SJW crowd. If you ask me, they're doing more good than harm, even if their identity politics can be annoying.

To me, the problem isn't degradation of high culture and criticism into pop culture comodity. The problem is end point of capitalism (ecological disaster, most likely), the end point of nationalism (total war), and possible nightmare scenarios of technology (from AI genocides against Humanity, to post-human genetic alteration).

I think if anything, the mainstreaming of environmentalism, feminism, anti-capitalism/consumerism are the only way out.

If capitalism tries to package this and sell it back to us in hypocritical forms, then we just need to raise awareness and fight it on a case by case basis.

>>9267648
But if the women have lots of sex, will it not be with the nihilistic men?

>>9267929
You are conflating several different posting bodies under a unified ideology.

There are some who have outgrown/grown indifferent to politics and will take any opportunity to attack any political stance as anaesthetic and outside art.

There are populist, nationalist libertarians who relish private perversions but want their presence removed from national discourse.

And, of course, there are a lot of teenagers running around aping their parent's political positions, bound by idealism and sentiment to tradition.

>>9268016

Check out Peter Sloterdijk, if you haven't already.

If there's any such thing as an 'alt-left', he's one of its foci.

>>9267968
Oh lord my guy, you need to do some thinking

>Get over your resentment of the SJW. They literally aren't oppressing you or ruining the world.

THIS is your image of communism, THIS is the appeal to you. What happens when everyone in that society wants to play WH40K? How can you ensure that doesn't happen?

There would be no plumbers in a communist society. No sewer cleaners. No men willing to risk their lives building tall skyscrapers. If some, then very few.

The hierarchy of capitalism is what keeps everything moving. As unfair as it may seem, you need a class of people desperate for a job to keep everything moving steadily. Desperation is what fills those cracks. That's why immigrants are so much more willing to take the jobs no one wants, they're just happy to get the work.

Who in a communist society would decide that their place in the world is to scrub hospital bedpans for the rest of their lives? You're kidding yourself if you think it'd be enough.

>>9268046
I've got a copy of Neither Sun Nor Death, but it was a little esoteric, probably not a great place to start. I've also read maybe the first half of Critique of Cynical Reason, before I graduated and lost my library account. I've read about some of the disagreement and controversy over his Human Zoo essay.

I'm surprised he's considered "alt", my impression was that he's fairly mainstream left in Germany. He had a TV show.

>>9268058
Fuck I didn't mean to quote that line, I meant to quote
>In a communist society, I'd be free enough to pursue my interests, be them WH40K or woodcutting

>>9267957
Pretty sure they just want the "necessary evil" of public space to be as antiseptic as possible. They want their private markets, their private lives, their private prejudices and perversions.

Ideally they seem to want a tidy little of government that enforces tidy little contract laws That's what unites "gamer gate" and communism in their mind, impingement by foreign bodies into spaces they'd like to keep private. A lot of them think of this impingement as heterogeneous in terms of race, at the most basic level, and cultivation at the most sophisticated.

>>9268007
I don't even wanna lift the blame on SJWs on this one, but first of all, racial tensions have never been even close to resolved in american society, this shit was bound to happen.

>>9268058
I never said I'd play WH40K 24/7, and I doubt most people would.

You know who would fix the plumbing? People who aren't willing to drown in shit. The fact that you think people will only do anything if they're ordered to tells me more about you than about communism. There are plenty communal experiments in which people aren't dying with the black plague, which goes to show that even in communist societies there still exists some semblance of personal responsability, but capitalism completely erases that in the name of "you must do becase you'll starve to death if you don't"

Also, I legit hope your line about no one wanting to buy skyscrappers is real, because at least in my country, we already have enough housing for twice the homeless population, skyscrappers are only built because some vain fuck thinks he can become a post-modern pharoah if he fucks up with the landscape hard enough.

>>9268030
No, dummie, it will be with the small pool of aesthetic letztemenschen, because sex is about jockeying for social status for women.

>>9268103
Have you ever noticed that in all of these towns and other very small areas like Kerala in India where communism has been "shown to work" are always very small communities? Of course it works there, the communities are very tightly knit and traditional, and the social pressure to contribute is amplified due to that familiarity among the populace

The larger a communist society gets, the less you will see these "working class heroes" doing the dirty work no one else wants to do. The pressure to do so will not be strong enough. Humans act in self interest, and try as you may, you will never harbor a social attitude that eliminates that fact.

>>9268095
but they reason they want to keep it private it is because they're subconsciously ashamed by those things. and the social justice types who bring it into the zeitgeist and put a spotlight on them put them into a psychological schism where the only options are to hate yourself or hate the people making you think about hating yourself, and the solution for most of 4chan is to just do both.

>>9268059

I'm viewing the political spectrum and terrain through an American lens. 'Leftism' here is basically just a scrabble to put out a thousand tiny fires, many of its own making, and its full integrated in the capitalist political economy, and barely even pays lip service to something like a different course. I think there is a more 'authentic' public engagement with deep issues in Germany, even if a consensus is hard to come by, so someone like Sloterdijk can find a sympathetic and interested audience there.

>>9268148
So? I never said we had to be one kind under the hammer and sickle, I believe no one should have to deal with more than 2000 people during their whole lfes

>>9268187
Fucking kek, good luck enforcing that throughout society without brutal oppression

>>9268095
>>9268160
You're far overthinking things - I used to browse /v/ during the gamer gate fiasco and what seemed to unite them was a sensation of an excessive politicization and nepotism in their medium. Most gamers were fine with the occasional jab at whom the author didn't like beforehand, but gamer gate turned them extremely sensitive to anything political. Remember that it happened before the concept of an altright materialized.

>>9267436
void

>>9268237
Except in wasn't "in their medium". It was about game *journalism*, specifically places like Kotaku, which who the fuck reads in the first place? The obvious solution to their whole crusade was to just stop reading those publications. The reason it was such a big crusade for the community was because they thought it was part of the broader social justive movement, which I remember seeing push back against for years. They might have laundered their intentions intellectually through some notion of ethics that were being broken but what they actually did was start posting obscene things at people on Twitter.

>>9267436

Posterior-modernism

>>9268016
>being afraid of embracing the Meltdown process

pussy

black metal

>>9268330
is this supposed to be a Land reference?

>>9267436
The end of civilization

>>9268336
what do you think?

>>9268351
I think based on your posting style, probably. But then you're either just shitposting or an idiot. Which are you?

>>9267929
>Right=authoritarian
Are you stupid or what

Read the gulag archipelago by solshenitzen
The left is mutating into its authoritarian mode in the us and worldwide behind identity politics and language control
Historically the authoritarian left has committed the worst atrocities worldwide

>>9267738
No.

>>9267801
No.

That sounds fun.

>>9267929
>They literally aren't oppressing you or ruining the world. They just want some space for their own brand of outsiderness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5_Pv0A-xjE
Not to mention their hate crimes against people who they don't agree with, trying to get people fired for jokes on twitter, rabid infestation at campuses all over the world etc.

>>9268364
both
I'm a shitposting idiot.

Hyper-structuralism in poetry
Nothing in prose
Renaissance of Video Games

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>>9268439
>Renaissance of Video Games

>>9267993
Maybe among older people not on 4chan all the time, you have people whose wives dump them when they lose status, as opposed to being neets with no gf. It's close enough.

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>>9268523
DELET

>>9267436
post-postmodernism

>>9267436
The complete and utter dislocation of individual consciousness from linear place and time.

I'm actually planning revival of romanticism and realism, but don't tell anyone.

>>9268868
I don't know anyone who would care, anyway.

Wasn't post-modernism anti-art? They succeeded in killing art so art is no more.

>>9267801
Shit. This kinda put my whole life in some different perspective. I've always kinda believe I will live to see a change, a return to something greater and better. A time where a new Mozart and a new Michelangelo reside. Your post makes much more sense than that.

>>9267436
hyper-modernism

>>9267801
>>9268884
It's a good post for sure. It kind of puts into words what I've been feeling but couldn't articulate.

>>9268876
>no one cares anymore
This is why all attempts at new movements or revivals of old ones are doomed to fail. Public interest has forever evaporated, lost in a digital aether.

>>9268007
I live in SF too, I don't feel this at all, maybe just the people you surround yourself with. I'm Arab and my friend group consists of whites, Mexicans and blacks and we all equally talk about those distinctions and no one is ever offended because we are friends, why would we have nefarious opinions of the people I choose to surround myself in? There is definitely some annoying shit, discussion of history in class can get pretty bad, and people assuming I'm some downtrodden Muslim that needs their sympathy(my family are Catholic Palestinians) but overall I think the divide is greatly exaggerated in the bay area, my only complaint in the cost of living

all artistic movements were ultimately just what was popular among moneyed classes

>>9268956
It's probably because I'm younger, just now about to go to college. These kids are void of personality. They have applied the squeaky clean, self-congratulating, we-have-all-the-answers template to themselves and seem unable to budge. When I was 17 I told a coworker that I was a National Liberal Democrat and I was a nazi at work for a few weeks.

I think the main issue is that it is a culture that gives everyone an infallible voice, but these are children who do not know how to debate, how to compromise, how to take beliefs to their logical conclusion, or really converse with anyone who doesn't fit their template. When you give those people a voice without a level of Darwinism where those who are most well spoken and reasonable rise to the top, you cause horrendous detriment to the causes at hand and turn real issues into laughing stocks.

btw I'm a dumb young 18 year old too, I'm not claiming to be super superior. That's why I intend to keep my mouth relatively shut until I can really sort these things out.

>>9267436
post-post-modernism

>Neon-modernism

>>9267436
more boring "quirky" realist novels

>>9268999
same anon. I'm 19 and I really cannot understand the confidence in their own world view my generation has at such a young age. every month I feel like I know less and less, this world is so complex I can't even bring myself to speak about a issue I care about because of the thousands of factors I didn't take into account, then people our age post a rant on social media assuming they've figured it out with their 3 sentences basic summary of their liking. I truly cannot understand that mentality, and that's why I'll probably die indecisive and umacomplished. I've been making a video game to kind of express this, the main point of the game is deciphering between correct and incorrect information you gather from exploring the world and solving problems. Sometimes you'll say something wrong and fuck up the story, or believe you have all the info and still lose to factors outside your control....... I don't know where I was going with this comment

>>9267756
>The break between Classicism and Modernism

>>9268007
Maybe you're all just autistic.

>>9269091
Exactly! The more I age and the more I learn, the more I discover just how little I know. That's not exactly a ground-breaking realization but it's very true. Emotional confidence is a fantastic trait to have but intellectual confidence is really dangerous, especially at a young age. Social media was the inevitable cause. Distillation, distillation, distillation. Distill all information and opinion until it is easy, rapid, and simple enough that Mx. Cindy Lou-Bluehair can read all of it on xer 15 minute lunch break from xer Whole Foods cashier position and hit "share" before any differing opinion can throw some more information into the mix.

I really feel like an asshole sometimes, I've lost so much respect and trust towards my friends. I also feel like a coward given that I'm scared shitless to voice my opinion at risk of further shrinking my social circle.

Anyways, that video game idea sounds really interesting and I hope you stick with it. I'd love to play it some day

rich thread

>>9269162
I've learned to keep my mouth shut and just observe, easier than being that guy that has to play Devils advocate constantly in an attempt to bring some sanity in a conversation. In the aimless modern age, people create their personal identify around (mostly political) opinions and questioning it is taken as a personal attack. It's just so fucking tiring trying to gauge whether or not the person I'm talking to can discuss something without viewing the discussion as a fight that needs to be won that I'll rather just not talk and rant in my notebook when I get home.

>>9267555
Source?

>>9269235
It's Danto's philosophy on Aesthetics. I just copied the wiki, it was quicker than summarizing myself.

You should check him out, though. Really good stuff.

>>9267555
I think this is kind of true but "followed by our post-historical era in which, with qualification, anything goes..." is the key sentence due to the idea of 'qualification'. That qualification is theory, and it is history; both intrinsically linked and the same thing that separated art from craft in the Renaissance. Since we're talking about Hegel, it is worth using the term 'emancipation' as a project of Western art. In the Renaissance, the emancipation of art was a path to social engagement. Social engagement, I believe, is a path to self-actualization. Self-actualization, as we know, is a concern of Hegel, which in turn informs the writing of Marx. Marxism influences the Situationists. The SI sought the decompartmentalisation of art and life. So what these garbage non-illusionistic works really do, in a gallery, is equip the viewer with the knowledge that everything around him is imbued with a history and has meaning in itself. The effect of the art work is not to keep the viewer in awe of the technicality of brush strokes, but -- as Renaissance works involve the close study of natural elements through drawing, arranged in a sort of bricolage -- make the viewer in awe of the source material from which the artist draws his art materials and inspiration; that is, the world around him, both past and present. The art object is beside the point, the theory is the thing. Without the art object being fetishised as a commodity, the art is without frames. The 'art effect' of worldy engagement, resonate in the viewer, continues with him outside the gallery walls. The ephemeral nature of these works means the viewer eventually forgets what caused him his inspiration in the gallery and it is just a memory, an experience, that constitutes his character.

>>9267436
So to answer OP, what comes after post-modernism -- the negation of modernism -- is sublation; another step closer to the emancipatory project present and slowly being realised in the West since the Renaissance.

Alternatively, we abandon this project (temporarily) and go back to form. It depends what you mean 'after', i.e. chronologically or in terms of the development of its theory

>>9267681
I don't know what this means exactly but it seems pretty accurate.

>>9267436
The 70s

>>9268003
This makes me laugh more than when people completely misinterpret death of the author as allowing people to completely misinterpret texts

I hope this is the beginning of a postmodern revival, or reclamation

>>9269340
except for his shitty interpretation of Nietzsche

>>9268883
They were 'anti-modernism' (in a way, but still used/developed modernist ideas of art and artistry), so they were against the idea that 'newness' in art wasn't possible beyond abstraction and medium specificity. In their view it is anti-art to confine art to one theory, just as in the late 19th century it was the view of the avant-garde to move away from the 'anti-art' of bourgeois illusionism, just as in my view the Jedi are evil.

>>9269465
True.

>>9267621
this

don't die, thread

>>9268999
>>9269091
>>9269162
Canadian here, look to your elders rather than your classmates. Millennials are entitled as fuck, special snowflakes that have a completely different concept of pain and work than previous generations or anywhere outside of the First World. I was at a restaurant with some friends and asked for my steak rare; it was well done. When I told the waiter, she got me a new one and didn't charge me for my drink. My friends were amazed, because they had never complained at a restaurant--they don't want to make the waiter's job difficult. Best part about it is you'll achieve a lot more than everyone else and look a lot better in comparison if you don't let yourself become a cuck.

It's not a "muh generation" thing, older millennials that were influenced by older generations rather than today's 20-somethings and social media turned out just fine. But the more I talk to people on my campus and the more I look at Facebook, the more I want to abandon city life all together. My best friend grew up in bumfuck nowhere with 100 acres of forest as his backyard, and he's well-read and well removed from the mediocrity of surface-level pop culture that pervades our lifestyles.

>>9271106
>Millennials are entitled as fuck, special snowflakes that have a completely different concept of pain and work than previous generations or anywhere outside of the First World.

"Millennials" is a meme. bashing snowflake-ism has become a banal cheapshot and has to be counterbalanced with awareness that a) the job market and long term outlook for young people in western countries (decaying financialized economies that don't produce anything, automation replacing jobs, aging population, massive national debts, threats of resource scarcities and climate change, etc) is worse than any time in the postwar era b) post-secondary tuition costs are way way higher than in the past, student debt is insane and in extreme cases (i.e. the US) amounts to vampirism of the young by the old (and you call MILLENIALS entitled - why are baby boomers entitled to suck the blood of the young to feed their pensions?), c) post-secondary degrees are worth less than any time in the history of university education, even though they're more expensive than they've ever been

yeah some people (a faction of the left) are whiny but the situation is really not good for a lot of people and the natural human tendency is to look for easy scapegoats and avoid responsibility. but it isn't "millenials" fault that the post-great recession economy sucks ass and shows no real sign of turning around beyond funny-money stock market number manipulations

Stanley Hauerwas, whom I would recommend to anyone confused by modernity, which is to say most Americans, has the following understanding of modernity:

" America is the exemplification of what I call the project of modernity. That project is the attempt to produce a people who believe that they should have no story except the story that they choose when they had no story. That is what Americans mean by "freedom." The institutions that constitute the disciplinary forms of that project are liberal democracy and capitalism. Thus the presumption that if you get to choose between a Sony or Panasonic television, you have had a "free choice." The same presumption works for choosing a President. Once you have made your choice you have to learn to live with it. So there is a kind of resignation that freedom requires."

Again, "[the project of moderynity] is the attempt to produce a people who believe that they should have no story except the story that they choose when they had no story. "

It's a very difficult phrase but I think it means the following:

The modern condition is characterized by alienation from tradition followed by a deliberate choice to select some framework by which to live.

If this is indeed the correct definition of modernity, it makes no sense to point to a post-modernity or anything else. Modernity is where tradition becomes severed leaving individuals floating without a clear ethical/metaphysical framework. One can select form several contending "stories" about what's really going on. Mankind moved away from superstition towards science. Or maybe we lost touch with God. Or maybe we're all supposed to be Scientologists or Prozac-pumped secularists with a notion of psychosensory "health."

There is no post-modernity. We are only living with the consequences of dispensing with tradition, and this is the essential characteristic of modernity, coupled with then notion that individuals possess a metaphysical agency that can proclaim such a story (the categorical imperative, for example).

"Post-modernity" could only represent some essentially different configuration, which I think does not exist.

I want so badly to coin a new phrase, but really it's all bullcrap for real suburbia didn't even exist before ww2 and now everyone is dissatisfied. The era of enlightenment was also a bunch of bull just a bunch of "scientists" going off and doing their own thing, which is good, but it really didn't change much. The fathers of enlightenment weren't atheists, modernists knew they were wrong, post modernists didn't have a goal. It's just so retarded. Art is whatever. It's just distractions. Everyone thinks they're gonna be the next dj just like every good cook thinks they can be the next ramsey, but art was a gift we all have creative minds, and when everyone utilizes them the art industry fails miserably because everyone just does art and moves on. Artists don't look at modernism, they look at feelings. If you have a word for what I just said good for you, but if art reflects the current state and modernism was the industrial and post was post ww2 then this age is post middle eastern/computing so the name is... Reverse modernism. It's not modern, because we know there is no modern. we've reached a peak and are unwilling to accept it. But it's not post modernism either, it's...pseudo realistic. YEAH... that's a good one. keep that one. lord with keep it 100.

>>9271156

More to the point: a post modern literature could, at this time, only be a modern attempt to transcend modernity. You cant do that. You can walk (or write) your way into an open field of limitless human choice, or you can turn around and walk one of several straight-and-narrows leading back to Moses.

>>9267648
>anto is not claiming that no-one is making art anymore; nor is he claiming that no good art is being made any more. But he thinks that a certain history of western art has come to an end, in about the way that Hegel suggested it would."[11] The "end of art" refers to the beginning of our modern era of art in which art no longer adheres to the constraints of imitation theory but serves a new purpose. Art began with an "era of imitation, followed by an era of ideology, followed by our post-historical era in which, with qualification, anything goes... In our narrative, a

their*

>>9267436
Neo-traditionalism.

>>9271156
To me 'modernity' is the material reality, and 'modernism' is the intellectual project that arises from and directs that reality. You have to be careful what 'modern' you use -- post-modernism is the reaction specifically to artistic 'modernism' rather than 'modernity'. In art, there's such thing as 'exclusive' and 'inclusive' modernisms -- 'exclusive' including movements like surrealism, futurism, constructivism, suprematism, etc that all occur during the time of 'modernity', then there is the definition and development of formalism which is the 'exclusive' kind. Postmodernism, as far as I can tell, only reacts against 'exclusive modernism' and in fact adopts some practices from the 'inclusive'.

>>9271199
I would much sooner believe that post-modern (and most contemporary) art is against 'feelings'. It isn't so much dealing with the consciousness of the individual subject but the society that these subjects produce. It's much more objective.

>>9268951
It's about individual movements now, personal revivals, the person as the center of the universe.

Seems the general consensus is reversion back to more traditional ideas

>>9271264
4chan isn't often right

>>9271264
I disagree. Tradition for safety's sake is cowardice.

>>9271281
It isn't for safety's sake. Post-modernism is arguably artistically safer.

>>9271284
That's not what all that previous yabbying about death of art and end of art seemed to assert...

But I wasn't talking about safety of art, I was talking about safety itself.

As much as it hurts to admit we're entering another era dominated by political ideology (and not even the alright kind) rather than philosophical enlightenment

I'm beginning to think human beings never learn

>>9267648

The accompanying picture is hilarious. How can Post-Structuralists (or deconstructionists) be Marxist, IF MARXISM IS STRUCTURALIST! Structuralism and the earlier writers in it we're maxists branching out if economics, and the Post-Structuralists thought those guys (and gals) were making fools out of everyone.

keep in mind I know almost nothing about this shit so I apologize if I sound dumb, but everyone is saying there is nothing after post modernism and that art is dead ect. ect but I disagree. I feel like with the age of robotics and computing are changing how we view our selves and our world, there is plenty of art to be made to help navigate society through this period of huge change. And this is not including things like climate change, failing economy and government, globalization, and cultural tensions. There is so much to understand that I can't believe no new ways of thinking and art will be created. Even if people can just choose what they believe in, that subject itself is worth decades of intellectual thought and understanding. Maybe it is just hard to digest the present and imagining the future is almost impossible, doesn't seem that far off from the movements of the past

>>9271316

Metrics driven ideology. Everything is work-shopped and polled.

The truth is everyone has tuned out because when everyone fine tailors everything, it becomes white noise. Vocal group identitarians are a fraction of even those who vote Democrat. It won't amount to anything. Communication and transportation tools are too diverse for any group to stage a silent coup like during the Russian revolution.

>>9271388

I like your thinking, but the question arises to me as to whether these computer driven technologies help or hurt art.

My first thought is Music, because I love music of all kinds, but I think the techno/dubstep/trance/blah shit is awful.

It might be subjective, but the question is whether it is acidic to culture. Robotic music used to make note about the way Germans are expected to act, that seems like art, but some repeating perfect beat that eventually moves to a new repeating beat, etc just seem like it is more of a negative than a positive.

>>9267436
Neo-fascism

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>>9271444
Praise Kek!

>>9271106
>Millennials are entitled as fuck
>I asked for what I paid for at a restaurant and my friends were amazed that you could do that

Really not sure what point you were trying to make here...?

>>9271460
I think he's saying he's entitled? Or perhaps that millenials are courteous. Or that they have a warped view of things.

>>9271472
Maybe? He doesn't strike me as the sort to think that asking for what you paid for is "entitled" though

>>9271480
I agree. I just don't think it's a very good example for what he wants to illustrate. Their shock isn't special to their generation.

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>>9267436
Muslims taking over Europe.

>>9271480
Not wanting to make the job of the waitress harder doesn't strike me as entitled.

>>9271525
Yeah, I mean sure asking for the steak again is by definition entitled, but very few people would argue that it's to a fault

I really don't see any notable entitlement in the story so I'm stumped

>>9271532
He must be talking about his friends' reaction to it. But again, that's not unique to their generation.

>>9267756
>>9267801

Solid posts.

The whole question of "what comes after post-modernism" is a kind of modernist confusion.

The idea that there is a "next", that there is progress, etc. is exactly the kind of grand narrative that post-modernism rightly criticises. Notions such as progress are an interpretation of the world, not a reflection of it.

>>9267929
>I really don't understand the backlash against leftism.
It is mostly as a result of leftist overreach, censorship, and authoritarianism. It is also because the left's currently favoured forms of collectivism are imperial and global in nature... whereas there is a move within the right away from globalism and toward nationalism. The left offers a coercive moral platform of imperial benevolence, while the right offers an apparently amoral and dangerous liberation from imperial duty.

The movement on the right is probably partly driven by how difficult it is becoming to achieve genuine growth in global markets. It is probably a lot easier right now to look for growth by disrupting global systems... whether that be through changing the world order. Or turning inward. Or maybe through war.

>>9267718
>Remodernism
>good
Hmmm
>postmodernism is a dead end, we need to return to modernist ideals to forge ahead to a new spirituality in art
>*immediately abandons their principles to take a few cheap shots at the British arts establishment*

>>9271440
What makes dance music "acidic to culture" (puns aside), other than you not liking it and wanting to pin some sense of objectivity to your opinion?

>>9267436
Islam

>>9271150
>aging population is a bad thing
It will be a good time to be a mortician.

>>9267436

For the right, NRX-influenced Nietszchean/Darwinist positions

For the left, Islam.
Seriously.
The center cannot hold.

neo-neoclassism

>>9272469
yep

>>9267621
/thread

>>9268007
Cool anecdote. I live in San Jose (which is essentially the same in demographics) and this intensity doesn't exist.

Futurism

>>9271106
Nothing worse than a self-hating millenial

>>9267621
correct

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>>9267648


Wow!!1!1 that confirms it guys!! The system is rigged!! I'm gonna go post this to /r/the_Donald make sure to upvote lol! Fuck le leftist cucks

Why do we difine ourselves from what has been defined. Aren't we enough to be more than just post? Are we really that insignificant that we are only the remains?
I ask you what comes after post, will it be another examination, reflexion, or will we rise to something we can call truely our own.

>>9272814
don't comment on gramatical and typos, i'm on a new mobile and hate writing on it.

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>>9272756
The exact same thing could be said to you, although you're implying that demographics should equate to consistent beliefs as well.

If I wasn't concerned about privacy I would hold your hand, open up my Facebook account, and scroll through my wall just to show you. Nearly every post that isn't sponsored or a meme holds an opinion that I and most other people would be ruthlessly ostracized for criticizing or even honestly responding to with our true opinion.

I'm sifting through it right now, and just what I immediately see I can share with you

-a gender non-conforming mutual friend showing that although they are NOT a girl, they want to wear makeup anyways
-so far, maybe a half dozen posts about Trump (no new insights or opinions, mind you)
-a latina coworker demanding that white woman cease wearing hoop earrings because it is cultural appropriation of latina women
-a confusingly late post stating that Casey Affleck should not have been allowed to win an Oscar
-a shared webcomic with the message that you should not ridicule those who participate in "puppy play"
-three defenses of communism
-two posts advocating anarchy

In pic related, I've cherry-picked some good representations I screen grabbed a while back. Feel free to be wary because I cherry picked but look at that like/love response.

Would you like to know how much criticism or dissent or even friendly debate there is in the comments? Absolutely none whatsoever. In its place there are heart emojis and words of sympathy and condolence.

>>9272469
>For the left, Islam.
That's stupid. Just because you see liberals showing sympathy to Muslims doesn't mean they want to convert to Islam.

>>9272903
>Stretch out fat girl
>Take up space
>They can walk around you
>Since they like exercising so damn much.

IT WRITES ITSELF

>>9271319
Because Post-Structuralists are literally retarded.
They will argue day long that 'All truth is oppression' yet at the same time won't ask the simple question "How do I know that ''All truth is oppression' is true? Why do I act upon this as if it were true?"

To avoid this, they are nested into marxism in a culture of oppression. Being oppressed = being right.

>>9272922
Look at feminists in Sweden, they wear the veil as soon as they are asked to.

Look at Marine LePen, she refused to wear the veil because it oppresses women.

That's the difference between the current Left, which is totalitarian and embraces Islam, and the right which holds sovereignty as the highest value.

>>9272469
>Darwinists now seen as unfuckable creeps
>they get booted from the gene pool
>will bitch they don't deserve to
Where were you when Survival of the Fittest no longer became the Fittest?

>>9272903
This definitely sounds unique to where you live. San Francisco, you said?

>>9272903
New addition, a post saying that all people involved in any way with animal testing of any kind are soulless monsters that should be shut down and their practice outlawed immediately

>>9273145
That's the one, yeah

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>>9267648

"It attacked the ideas of Structuralist who stated..."

"...converted them to there subversive, marxist ideology."

"In addition there critiques of gender, race and sexuality eventually led to..."

>>9268007
>You don't live where I do, dude. I live in San Francisco (for only 180 more days, thank god) and all notions of open conversation and social camaraderie have been stifled. There is little friendship across races here. Day-to-day interactions between whites and blacks especially is suffocatingly anxious, tense, and forced. All white people here (I'll even admit, including myself) are TERRIFIED at all waking moments of "slipping up" and saying something "they" don't like. This is equally unfair to the black people who don't play into this insanity because all interactions they have with white people are comprised of nervous smiles and stutters

to be this precious

>>9273439
Let me hear a little more of your thoughts

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>>9271150
>amounts to vampirism of the young by the old
lolololol

he says as he uses the technology and infrastructure and freedom bequeathed unto him by the vampires

you're literally an entitled snowflake and you don't even realize it

>>9273458
Not him but perhaps it is worth pointing out that at nearly every turn technology is attempting to suck money out of the young

>>9273443
Just stop the "what will the others think" ballet, and get on with your life.
As the Canadian said, look to your elders for guidance, not your peers.
Especially not YOUR peers.

>>9273463
>it is worth pointing out that at nearly every turn technology is attempting to suck money out of the young
that's capitalism
no one is being forced, it's a choice
and it's not just the young, don't be so myopic

>>9271150
muh millennials are actually not that bad

i don't think it's our fault our generation is so awful, but come on.

>>9273007
>shitposting? I love shitposting!

>>9273471
Sure you can make that argument, but consider what else Kermit said. The act of conversation and debate and argument is the construction of the spirit. I can not properly develop the ideas I need to maintain, the ideas I need so that I can make at least some sense of the world I am learning more and more about, without pitting these ideas against others. You talk, you argue, you realize that some things you thought were stupid and you let go of them as painful as it may be, and through that you quite literally evolve as a thinking person equipped to deal with a world of ambiguity

How can I do any of that when it is by all definitions socially suppressed by all of my peers and even some (many) of my elders? It is stifling. It is dangerous.

>>9267801
*autistic screeching*

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>>9273507
You sound like a good kid, desu.
In all honesty, the best thing a guy like you can do it travel - but not railpass/backpack for 6 months travel.
Go live somewhere else and work there. There are programs, or you can make it happen yourself. Teaching English, working at menial jobs, working for a corporation.
There's ahuge difference between travelling through a place and actually living there, and by living there you'll gain insights into yourself, society, and humans that will act as filters for the bullshit you'll be surrounded by your entire life.
Another great thing about living abroad is that you never know what will happen. You'll meet new people, be in new situations, be presented with opportunities that would be impossible at home. These things can literally change your life.
It doesn't take huge amounts of money, so don't be put off if that is the worry. Work at home and save so you can make it happen.
Studying abroad and working for a non-profit or similar are worthwhile, but desu you'll meet a completely different set of people - people MUCH more like those you already know at home. It is for that reason I suggest you work abroad, rather than study or help build schools, etc.
As for where to go, I'd suggest Europe, but that's up to you. Teaching English in South Korea or Japan is not as much as a departure as you might think mostly because those societies are very insular and you won't integrate and because you'll very likely end up hanging out with other ex-pats, and that's not as fulfilling an experience as you could have.

>>9273458
name one piece of technology or infrastructure that wasn't developed in some way or another with the motivation of making profit off of people

>freedom
lol, fuckin retard

>>9273376
To be fair, defending communism or advocating anarchy is not in and of itself a bad thing if there is some thought put into it.

The rest of the stuff seems retarded, yeah. Get new friends.

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>>9273719
I really would like to do that, and I will try my best to after college. This is some great advice, I agree that it is best to travel in a way that will most expose you to the differences between where you came from and where you are

The thing that is so frustrating and that I may have to give up on at some point, is that I genuinely want to help my peers. I don't want to feed them my opinions, but I know that some of them are very smart people who could do great things if they just opened themselves up to criticism a little more. Over the past decade I've watched my dad, who's an incredibly bright English major, get clouded by cognitive dissonance. The entire social ring he has is telling him that his past opinions have been harmful, and it's tough watching him trying to figure out what he should do, and in some ways succumbing to the thought process

I may hate the philosophical climate here, but I love a lot of these people. Like I said earlier in the thread, emotional confidence is a good trait to have but intellectual confidence is really dangerous. I wish I could find a way to help them resolve the fears they all have about the potential of being proven wrong

>>9273791
I would argue that having intellectual confidence is one of the main building blocks for a good critical exchange. Obviously this can reach harmful levels, but if everybody was so intellectually unsure that they were always afraid to really hold an opinion good discussions would not happen because everybody would end up agreeing that they "just don't know". As always there is a golden ratio to be found here.

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>>9273426
>he hasn't read the complete works of Structuralist
whattapleb

>>9272903
how the fuck can you be both masc and queer?

>>9273818
Maybe I should just find a different term, but I don't think a lack of intellectual confidence inherently implies or leads to a person so insecure they can't hold on to any thought

I'm talking about the practice of being SO confident about your beliefs and conclusions that they become your identity. Think of the Tinder profile that consists solely of "Hi! I'm Amy. I'm an intersectional feminist" or "I'm a proud conservative and patriot, libtards need not apply"

When your beliefs become your identity, and attack on your beliefs is an attack on you, and people don't typically respond well to attacks on them. They clam up and further internalize whatever it is they are sure is right

>>9273839
I didn't say they couldn't hold onto a thought. I said they wouldn't be able to argue a position. Anyway, in both those cases the person in question is not looking for a discussion but for a romantic partner. I honestly don't find it all that surprising that people want to find like minded individuals as romantic partners. This does not automatically mean that they shy away from intellectual confrontation in general.

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>>9273836
She made reference to this woman. This is Ruby Rose, the "genderfluid" icon who has been denounced by a large portion of the social justice movement because she represents the partiality to thin, white, masculine people that they consider harmful at all turns

So yes, because this woman identifies as genderfluid and feels comfortable making herself look more masculine at times, and because she is a lesbian, she is now a part of the straight white male culture that they are fighting against and can not be trusted

>>9273870
She is hot. I want to have conensual sex with her.

>>9273889
Wow. So much for "the" tolerant left...

>>9273870
id fug that

>>9273870

>somebody is white and attractive

OMG we have to stop this!

>>9268433
A true Landian I see! Good on ya...

>>9268016
>feminism is the only way out

Yeah no