Shogun by James Clavell

uh, yeah. letting your enemy fuck up first is like, basic warfare.

>>9262592
So far, Tokugawa is letting his allies join up with Ishido though; maybe a more active stance could push the odds in his favour sooner (Obviously assuming he wins in the end)

>>9262557

It's more that he is unable to act for the moment: ishido is holding family members of toranaga and other daimyos as hostages in his castle

>>9262705
I don't remember if the novel clarifies this but couldn't toronaga foresee the shit hitting the fan?
I get that he's a great general but I still feel like he too unprepared.

>>9262739
youre forgetting its japan. its 50% intrigue and etiquette.

>>9262739

That's really something you are led to believe during the whole story, but when you arrive at the end, you get a "keikaku dohri" moment.

>>9262769
75%

>>9262769
So Toronaga and Ishido are playing chicken with each other. Toronaga with a master plan and Ishido with the numbers. Wouldn't the best tactic be to go all blitzkrieg? Or is this not "allowed" in Japanese warfare?

>>9262827

Most wars don't make much sense at all when you look back on it and try to dissect all the motives and shit.

People can be stupid, even brilliant people.

>>9262855
Its not so much that Toronaga's plan is stupid since it makes sense given Ishido's hold on him, but Toronaga just doesn't seem to live up to the legend the book sets him up to be.
At least so far. He seems to rely a lot on his karma, Blackthorne, and his Yoda-like philosophy

>>9262827
>Wouldn't the best tactic be to go all blitzkrieg?
defeats the purpose of playing chicken. blitzkrieg is banking entirely on the offensive. it's too stupid.
each are trying to get the other into the perfect position. to suddenly bumrush the enemy is dumb as shit if you don't massively outweigh the enemy forces- especially in a time without rapid fire weapons, bombs and fast transport.

You're also forgetting that the whole thing with the guns was a big issue. It's "unhonorable" to use them.

>>9262942

Meh, read up about Napoleon. His battles don't really live up to the legend he was supposed to be. He lost quite a few of them, he totally blundered a bunch, some were won by luck, etc...

>>9262946
>>9262946
>ieg is banking entirely on the offensive. it's too stupid.
umm

did you miss out WW2 and how Germany absolutely floored Europe..?

Sure they LSOT but lmao not because blitzkrieg..

>>9262557
Is that a postmodern book?

>>9262946
Its given that Toronaga is willing to use guns though, Crimson Sky seems to be the offense he is gonna bank on, so where is the honour in that.

>>9262964
it's too stupid for two people trying to outwit each other. And like I mentioned, nazi germany had the technology to facilitate a blitzkrieg. which is why it's named blitzkrieg- as it was a tactic first implemented in ww2 by the germans.

>>9263061
What I meant to say was that either Ishido and Toronaga could suddenly outwit the other by not waiting any longer, though I guess because its Japanese warfare, there has to be an artful element to it so this wouldn't be acceptable.