Tao

>>9251631
sort of a worse version of stirner desu

>>9251631
strong parallels with stoicism though anti-establishment. And the principal counterpoint to Confucianism. I thought it was a good read though it requires multiple reads for the nuances to really sink in.

its a good alternative materialist philosophy of life. western translations tend to hit on the individualism a little harder than what's there. i think the ideas in there could be found in any rural community though and are not really intuitive to urban readers, who generally see themselves as self-sufficient.

the cosmic implication that there is a single ordering factor makes sense when dao is interpreted as chaos. i also like the emphasis on submitting to said cosmic chaos and only dealing with the most pressing personal events in the least challenging way. unfortunately this usually means conforming to get along and something that is also de-emphasized in the western interpretations.

>>9251680
OP here, I found this too at the beggining, every single word has a metaphore (in chinese of course), and it looks like sentences has no sense, until you start to understand it. Then it's when the real fun beggins haha

what do you preffer anon? confucianism or taoism?

>>9251719
Yes, exactly. Western culture is focused on individualism (sometimes good, others bad), it looks like the only way to appeal the big public is with this method. If your book is based on the everything, the chain system, the infinite, people wouldn't be interested, because mny people see these eastern filosophical currents as some sort of self-helping manual of life or something. They are very egocentric and therefore, these books do not ppeal to them.

What i really like of the idea of Taoism, about this Chaos you were talking about, is that, just as the Infinite, Chaos is also Order in some way. Itt's very well structured with ''rules'' and different systems, and, just as the river flow, it's chaotic and uncontrolabe

>>9251776
Personally, Taoism. I think it's more natural, if that makes sense. It doesn't try to force the universe into structures in the way Confucianism does, and is directly about confronting the essence of the universe everyday and finding a quiet but confident happiness in our own daily existence.

>>9251852
> finding a quiet but confident happiness in our own daily existence.
Nice use of words, i like the idea of a ''quiet happiness''.

But yes, indeed, we think alike on this matter then.
In some way, Confucianism ties to control the uncontrolable, Chaos. It tries to understand the world with a vision that's very similar to the occidental one. Putting names and tags, categorizing everything and in essence, trying to use this knowledge on your own favour.
While Taoism's vision is well described in it's first meditation, wich is a base for the whole rest:
Tao (The Way) that can be spoken of is not the Cons
tant Tao’
The name that can be named is not a Constant Name.
Nameless, is the origin of Heaven and Earth;
The named is the Mother of all things.
Thus, the constant void enables one to observe the
true essence.
The constant being enables one to see the outward m
anifestations.
These two come paired from the same origin.
But when the essence is manifested,
It has a different name.
This same origin is called “The Profound Mystery.”
As profound the mystery as It can be,
It is the Gate to the essence of all life.

This verse, set up very well the rest of the book by saying (simplyfied of course), don't take my word for it, I' just writing what I think, and you should not think like me. The real things have no name, because they are much more complicated than a mere etiquette, Therefore, the real Tao, isn't called Tao (of course this verse has a lot more to say than this but whatever)
If you call ''chair'' to that object, you are already closing the door to many objects tht could have been chairs, but weren't, because they had no name (very dull metaphore indeed)

also sorry for spelling errors

>>9251801
yeah but lao tze also admits this, egocentric, as a human trait. so i'm not sure its a specific western problem. what i meant was that western interpretations often paint him in our tradition of the romantic outsider when a lot of his positions are about conformity. being adaptive to principles is seen as insincere in the west and so a lot of the tao is misinterpreted.

yeah, dao is both choas and the rules. that's why some people translate is as 'the path' because a path tends to follow the natural landscape and yet is bordered by it's own creation. like the dao is cosmic choas that conforms to the rules of the dao. a thing that follows the natural rules and is bordered by its own creation.

glad we had similar readings.

>>9251911
>indeed

Anyway, you shouldn't forget that an important competent of the tao is a discussion on strategy. And methods for management, and achieving goals by understanding the tao and using it to your own ends, rather than attempting to fight against it. The argument is that fighting against the tao is inherently futile. Like the boulder fighting the ocean, and the most permanent forces are those which are soft (water is the ultimate soft) as they cannot be worn away like those things which are hard.

>>9251965
>is a discussion on strategy
yes, strategy can be seen several times in the book, for instance and for what i understood, when it reffers to violence, patience is the key, the tiger waits for the ideal moment to attack, and therefore, minimizes violence and energy.

For what you said about flowing with te path rather than fighting against it, a very mainstream sentence can be applied ''be water my friend'' or ''go with the flow'' , phrases that we've all heard, but not everybody understands them or applies them. They've been used so many times they've practically lost their meaning here.

about soft/hard, this also reffers to life, '' when we are born we are soft and flexible, when we die, we are stiff, the small and flexible tree will resist all storms, while the big and strong tree will be cut down for wood''

But how do we become soft like water?
Is it a matter of mental flexibility?

>>9251924
yes of course, we are all egocentric (animals can only think about and for themselves), but in the west, this egoism hs transended I think, it's not anymore about survival, idk how to express it, but i find it to be different. Also, in a structured and advance society, conformism can be used agaist its people in many ways.

>like the dao is cosmic choas that conforms to the rules of the dao.
exactly, you're better with words than I am hahah

Taoism is great as guidance on how to live your external life but lacks God (any Creator-God based religion) and lacks the internal life (Buddhism, Zen, many others)

Luckily for us you don't have to choose a religion in your character creation screen so we are free to mix and apply as much as we want.

Love it. Confucianism also. They're not quite the same thing, but when I'm depressed af the TTC always pulls me back. It is impossible to be depressed around Laozi.

Confucianism is also underrated, but I actually think it's quite patrician, in many ways. Especially the parts about the junyi, the superior man, the gentleman. Having a disposition or attitude towards philosophy is sometimes as important, I think, as the metaphysical aspects as well. It's practical stuff, and ten billion miles away from Marxism, if that sounds appealing (and sometimes it does).

Deconstructing virtue was fun until you realize what a joy* it is to live in a world of radical skepticism. For all the loosey-goosey aspects of Eastern thought, a lot of it is quite practical as well, you're not really allowed to have your thoughts run away with you. I like that.

*read: nightmare clusterfuck

DUDE JUST BE A SMUG ASSHOLE LMAO