ITT: Books that will turn you into a Christian.

>>9248898
The Bible

The Man Who Was Thursday

>>9248910
lol you funny guy, God will smite you last

Write a diary. Honest diary.

Of course, the production of Kierkegaard, Solzhenitsyn, Tolstoy, Nietzsche and many others can help. However, it requires honest intent.

Would you rather be smug or right when it comes to these questions?

>>9248916
How is Nietzsche going to help me becoming a Christian?

>>9248936
Nietzsche is helpful in discarding your cowardice in many areas, which help you become honest.

File: Swallow_Bird-_Crow_Indian-_Edward_S._Curtis.jpg (57KB, 600x847px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 600x847px

>>9248898
Any good books on North American Indians?

Bonus points if it involves the crow nation!

>>9248898
en route - huysmans

My diary desu

Haven't found one yet.

Chesterton and Lewis didn't do it for me.

>>9248898
Atlas Shrugged

Everything by Flannery O'Connor

>>9249010
>Lewis didn't do it for me
His argument for the moral law is sound. The implication follows quite naturally.

Try to imagine the explanatory power of the following premise:
>Mankind is in rebellion against God
>God is Logos

I have to imagine that very few people have been converted to a religion purely from a book. Most of the time it's from meaningful life events.

>>9249061
I didn't find that argument convincing. Humans developing rules to organize their communities doesn't imply a supernatural force to me.

I may be an idiot, but I've never been able to figure out what logos actually means.

Augustine's Confessions

>>9248898
Maps of meaning

>>9248898
Surprised by the Power of the Spirit, Jack Deere

>>9248999
anything on Andrew Jackson and how he fucking owned them lol

>>9248916
>Nietzsche

Kek, are you retarded? The guy was a fervent atheist with a strong sense of hatred towards God. Now I'm a believer myself, but to even mention Nietzsche as being helpful to our cause is pure autism.

>>9248898
Crime and Punishment or The Brothers Karamazov.

File: 16299524_10206340450149010_5442857306392585917_n.jpg (37KB, 393x604px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 393x604px

Tolstoy's Confessions
Augustine's Confessions
The Orthodox Church by Bsp Kallistos Ware
The Orthodox Way by Met Ware
Brs Karamazov

>>9249961
Not necessarily. Nietzche is a definite part of the intellectual path to Christianity. You don't have to agree with his premises to benefit from his writing

>>9248996
Lad, part of Nietzsche's point is that Christianity simply IS cowardice.

Kierkegaard - The Sickness Unto Death
Dostoevsky - The Brothers Karamazov

>>9249061
>His argument for the moral law is sound
I thought it was pretty flimsy.

I'm not sure why all the Christians on 4chan like it so much.

>>9250060
I've actually read this (a long time ago). I remember the style was nice - basically a series of interviews by a Chicago journalist.

The arguments are ridiculously stupid and they will convince you only if you have almost no understanding of science. A hard pass.

If you became an atheist then certainly it required some reasoning which means you have become more rational. So with that in mind, you can more easily notice the flaws in religion, theological arguments and how primitive superstition is thus a book won't be effective.

File: C4F07EDC-5286-49B3-9D25-B225BC47AD3D-1291-000002237730A139_tmp.jpg (176KB, 644x1160px) Image search: [Google]

176KB, 644x1160px

My Confessions desu

>>9250108
It relies on a little less of a formal logic approach, a little more of a common sense approach. The Moral Law is something we can observe in action, so he almost presupposes its existence. Not everyone is willing to grant him that axiom.
@9250114
this cheap bait isn't worth (You)s

The Book of Genesis (1-11)
The Book of Ecclesiastes
The Book of Proverbs
The Gospel of St. Mark
Paul's Letter to the Romans
The Book of James

Kierkegaard
Tolstoy's Later Writings
Eusebius
Dostoevsky

Also fall in love with someone.

>>9250124
>The Moral Law is something we can observe in action
This is my problem with it. I don't think it can actually be universally observed and furthermore even if we presume that it is it's a leap in logic to attribute it to god rather than considering natural explanations.

>>9250143
>I don't think it can actually be universally observed
like I said, if you don't want to accept that axiom there's not much else to be said on the subject. Not a problem, just means that line of discussion isn't for you. It's the same reason you're never going to be able to argue a fallibilist into any given belief system. Don't think that makes you immune to conversion, though.

>>9250160
>like I said, if you don't want to accept that axiom there's not much else to be said on the subject.
Yeah, I suppose so.

But still if it's possible to end the entire discussion with "I don't believe you" because it's not possible to demonstrate the argument's premise does that not make it a bad argument?

>>9250160
This is the problem I have had with most apologetics. I do not accept the axioms they consider obvious and universal.

I want to be converted. My atheist nihilism is unsatisfying, but nothing else makes sense.

>>9250182
>dissatisfied with nihilism
>can't accept religion
Have you considered giving Nietzsche a go?

One of those cursed grimoires that make you retarded.

>>9248999
They are some of the most savage people to ever exist.

>>9250167
>But still if it's possible to end the entire discussion with "I don't believe you" because it's not possible to demonstrate the argument's premise does that not make it a bad argument?
It's possible to do this ad infinitum, though. Even Dante's tired old "I think therefore I am" can be rejected on the grounds of insufficient proof. Either you eventually get tired of running around in circles and settle down to decide on some philosophical givens or you wallow in nihilism.

>>9250182
It might not be an intellectual path for you, anon. This might sound dumb, but if you take a chunk of time to do some introspection or even "meditation" where you just try to clear your mind, it might help you step away a bit from the logical loop you find yourself in. I like to go for walks late at night in the cold - I don't think about anything specifically, just try to experience the moment without thinking about it.
Alternatively, if you do want more rational discussion, are you familiar with Leibniz's Cosmological Argument? It's a particular favorite of mine. Here's a couple resources on it just in case:
https://www3.nd.edu/~jspeaks/courses/2009-10/10100/LECTURES/5-leibniz.pdf (lecture notes, pretty light stuff)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2ULF5WixMM (Youtube, about 12 min)

>>9250191
I am peripherally familiar with his ideas, but have never sat down and read his books. What is a good place to start?

Though I generally dislike reading philosophy. Most authors seem to dismiss the notion that anyone might disagree with them, and spend too much time tearing down strawman arguments.

>>9250222
In a rationalist sense, possibly.
In an empiricist sense, no. And the thing is Lewis is trying to make an a posteriori argument grounded in common experience, but fails to demonstrate the premise at all. Not just that but you can empirically demonstrate contrary to the premise.

If he was trying to argue from pure logic then this might not be so important, but he's not so it's about as compelling as saying "Everyone's favourite colour is purple, therefore purple is the objective best colour".

>Even Dante's tired old "I think therefore I am" can be rejected on the grounds of insufficient proof.
I think you mean Descartes.

>>9250222
>meditation
I've tried several times to get into this. I just end up sitting uncomfortably and being bored.

>Leibniz thought that there must be some explanation of why there is a world at all
>Principle of sufficient reason: Any contingent fact about the world must have an explanation

Once again, I take issue with his axioms. The universe simply is. It's a human desire to assign a reason to this, but that doesn't make it necessary. Or, just because we don't understand what those reasons are, doesn't imply that iron age mythologies are true.

>>9250231
Give Twilight of the Idols a read to begin with. It's really short and probably his otherwise easiest book to understand for beginners. If you liked that then try The Antichrist and The Genealogy of Morality.

Read Thus Spake Zarathustra last though.

>>9250093
Agreed. Jung helped me understand Nietzsche more, and though some would argue that he is more in line with gnosticism, I disagree.
The heart of Christianity was Jesus' spiritual enlightenment and his effort to deliver a path for others to achieve this. Unfortunately the message has been dogmatised and externalised to a degree that it has lost meaning to most peoples individual psyche.

>>9250272
>Jesus' spiritual enlightenment
What spiritual enlightenment is that?

File: 1483950600886.png (3MB, 2560x2739px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2560x2739px

>>9248898
Here anon

>>9250280
The temptation of Christ is the pivotal moment of the transformation. There is a way to delve deep into ones own psyche and face down the evil that is inside of us and emerge with a much greater understanding of the individual and collective unconscious.

I don't know if you can understand unless you have at least peripherally experienced it but it is incredibly powerful.

>>9250256
Will do.

The main reason I haven't read Nietzsche before is my language autism. I have enough German knowledge to want to read him in the original, but not enough to do so fluently and easily. So I keep telling myself, once I improve my German, I'll read him in the original and feel superior. But though I practice, I never quite feel up to the challenge.

File: noice.png (71KB, 220x220px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 220x220px

>>9249955
kek

>>9248936
He helps you understand the christian psychology, and the necessity of God. You read Nietzsche to understand how fucked you are without God. He's pretty much right about everything, and you're not an ubermensch. Since you're not, there's no way to have a meaningful life or a morality that makes any sense without God.

>>9250409
> and you're not an ubermensch.
Not with that attitude.

File: 9780520256378.jpg (132KB, 430x648px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 430x648px

The twist is you'll love Jesus himself but hate the Church

File: e1612fa041c648b5c833caa4762bff6b.jpg (61KB, 618x911px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 618x911px

>>9250425
Unless you're Kanye West, Donald Trump, or pic related, you're not worthy of the ideal.

>>9248898
All of them.

>>9250451
We'll find that out when I'm dead.

>>9248898
the recognitions.

>>9250047
>>9250083
>>9250101
>Karamazov

Atheists love the Grand Inquisitor section, and in fact it's among the best expressions of atheism in literature. But as a whole the book is a confrontation between belief and unbelief, and the latter comes up far short.

The counterpoint to the Grand Inquisitor is the life story of Father Zossima that comes soon after. It completely rebukes Ivan's viewpoint (more of a critique of people than faith itself, and a fiction) with Zossima's experience of sin and redemption.

And of course the different trajectories of Alyosha and Ivan (and others) bears this out as well. (Things wouldv'e gotten really complicated with Alyosha and his arc if Dostoyevsky had continued further with The Life of A Great Sinner. It's a shame, but then again people have a hard enough time getting past The Grand Inquisitor to what Dostoyevsky was saying and doing.)

>>9250709
You'll never be dead, you'll never find out. You can't be dead, by definition. You will always be alive.

>>9250986
What about the homoerotic overtones? It's a whole book of dudes kissing eachother, but it wants us to convert to orthodox Christianity. Isn't that contradictory? Like if I gave a heartfelt soliloquy to Jesus about his failures, and instead of saying anything back, he just kissed me, I'd be like 'woah dude, gay.' Don't get me wrong, I love Jesus, but I'm not gonna let him kiss me. One time I was at this gay bar and this gay dude tried to buy me a drink. I was all like, yeah no thanks bro, can't you see I'm straight. Then there's Alyosha hanging around little kids all day, what's up with that? I mean, he's clearly the gayest character. He shows no interest in the opposite sex, and every woman trusts him implicitly and only him. Sounds like the gay friend every woman has. He doesn't pound any of those bitches once. But he must have kissed like 40 dudes throughout that book. I'm just saying, the only 2 people he really seems to care about are the elder and Jesus. 2 dudes, seems pretty gay. He's described as a twink, he's only 19. He'd be perfect for russian gay porn. I dunno, maybe I didn't get the book.

File: Messiah.jpg (41KB, 314x475px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 314x475px

A lack of humor paired with ignorance might make one a good church goer, and yet also walls one off from becoming a Christian.

So a bit of educational satire may not inspire. What it will do is make your path clearer through insight.

So I politely suggest this.

>>9248898
>books that will turn you into a Christian.
How to be a pussy cuck with an imaginary friend

>>9249027
Worked for me.

Seven Story Mountain by Thomas Merton
Selected Writings by St. Thomas Aquinas
On the Incarnation by St. Athanasius
On the Holy Spirit by St. Basil
Confessions - St. Augustine
Jesus and the Victory of God/The Resurrection of the Son of God - NT Wright
Pope Benedict - Jesus of Nazareth series

Thanks to every kind anon for this thread. God bless you all.