does /lit/ like tolkien?

>>9161840
Yes.

>>9161840
No, ruling is hard.

>>9161840
Why not? He's got a warm demeanor.

Yes, his fiction feels /genuine/ even when LoTR is inevitably based on other tales, but since then everyone is just watering down his material and adding sex and violence as if that makes it any better.

His works other than Middle Earth aren't too shabby either

>>9161840
Tolkien was a linguist before he wrote what too many pseuds equate to the work of pseuds that came after him. Check:

Tolkien was a professor of linguistics or thereabouts, and in his free time he invented languages. All the time. Dozens of the bastards, just inventing languages in order to continue his own education. His original dialects were complicated, and often housed and were founded on peculiar structures that he found in real languages--they were basically modes for his investigation of a set of things. Certain dialects were made to set those peculiar little structures alongside each other and see what effects it had on semiological conveyance. Anyhow--

Tolkien created the Lord of the Rings series originally as vessels to house all of his experiments in linguistics, and those (often fragmented) dialects became elvish, dwarvish, etc. Couple this with the fact that Tolkien was a world-renowned scholar of European folklore. The breadth of his literary achievement is this: He invented an entire genre. Or rather, his work spawned so many poor facsimiles that THEY became the fantasy genre. Tolkien's work is, in my mind, firmly outside the 'fantasy' genre, as they are literary works which served the progenitor of all the tripe you might associate him with.

Tolkien's son worked to turn his father's notes for the Silmarillion into a publishable book near the end of his life. They exchanged letters while Christopher was a pilot in the British military. And when J.R.R. died, Christopher suffered nightmares for years that his father had seen the version of the Silmarillion he'd published, and was disappointed with it.

And then P.J. made them into fucking action movies, and a bunch of faggots like Branderman Sandanderstan act like their conveyor-belt genre fiction should ever be allowed in the same room with the works of Tolkien.

Yes, /lit/ like Tolkien, and if they don't, they should.

>>9161877
/end

>>9161840
I've only read the Hobbit but I thought it was a great book.

>>9161848
Bullshit. Liberals and women liking this archconservative

>>9161840
I've read The Fellowship of the Ring a few years ago. I've never seen any of the movies. I did not dislike the book but I can't describe a single plot point or character.

Posterity will rightly recognize him as the best writer of the twentieth century.

>>9161848
>liberals and women like him
from my experience liberals and women generally prefer sci-fi and happy space adventures

>>9161877

Agree with all of this except the Brandon Sanderson hate. His recent fantasy is some of the only fantasy that I've found fresh and interesting over the last 10 years.

>>9161840
but what was dumbledore's tax rate?

>>9162152
That's your curse, anon. Don't put that negativity here.

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>>9161877
>unironically using the word 'tripe'

>>9162448
What's wrong with it?

>>9162479
just rhetoric from rustled genre redditbois, disregard them anon.

>>9162482
...

>>9161848
Liberals hate Tolkien because of his ideal world being one built on distributism and racial segregation, while also using the orcs as a stand-in for the Turks constantly coming to harass Christian civilization from the south east

>>9162482
No they don't, they don't even know what the term tripe comes from.

Tolkien's devout Roman Catholic faith was a significant factor in the conversion of C. S. Lewis from atheism to Christianity, although Tolkien was dismayed that Lewis chose to join the Church of England.[107]

According to his grandson Simon Tolkien, Tolkien in the last years of his life was disappointed by some of the liturgical reforms and changes implemented after the Second Vatican Council:

I vividly remember going to church with him in Bournemouth. He was a devout Roman Catholic and it was soon after the Church had changed the liturgy from Latin to English. My grandfather obviously didn't agree with this and made all the responses very loudly in Latin while the rest of the congregation answered in English. I found the whole experience quite excruciating, but my grandfather was oblivious. He simply had to do what he believed to be right.[92]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien#Views

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>>9161877
/thread

Tolkien is as based as they come

tom bombadil is based

>>9162558

tripe is actually very tasty tbqh

>>9162885
Absolutely patrician

Has anyone is /lit/ noticed similarities between the Silmarillion and Miguel Serrano?

Maybe they are superficial similarities but the idea of the divinely descended Hyperboreans entering the fallen planet to make war with the demiurge seems a little too similar to the Noldor entering the marred Middle Earth to make war with Morgoth.

>>9162885
>>9162973
>tfw you have the autism but not the linguistic ability

>>9163231
lmao

>>9163231
What face?

>>9161877
This. Everything here.

I find it especially amusing when people degrade Tolkein's prose and diction when he himself understood more about language than anybody critiquing him.

I think he's an excellent writer on just a line by line basis. His prose is excellent! People complain about his constant descriptions of landscapes and fictional cities, but I find them beautiful in a very painterly sort of way. They remind me a lot of Washington Irving's picturesque travel writing, complete with all that English whimsy and nostalgia which modern audiences seem to despise so much. I can kind of understand why people roll their eyes over hobbits and talking trees, The Lord of the Rings is often an incredibly sentimental book, but what distinguishes Tolkien is his uncanny ability to shift from Merrie Old England to awe and doom on a biblical scale without ever sounding forced or awkward. So many other fantasy writers and imitators try to pull this off and they almost always fuck up because they do not have that same grounding in history that Tolkien did. That honest knowledge of history is essential for both good nostalgia and a sincere epic quality.

>>9163402
Well said, anon

>>9161877
This. You just spoke out my heart anon

>>9163318
>I find it especially amusing when people degrade Tolkein's prose and diction when he himself understood more about language than anybody critiquing him.
This was really funny. Thank you.

>>9161877
It's difficult to believe we read the same books.

>>9163402
/thread/ and goodnight anons

I like him because of the rare times I've met outspoken religion-bashing atheists who are also major LotR fans, and I get to experience the flustered rationalizations they give upon learning Tolkien was a devout Catholic.

His books are pretty boring though, unless you're into fake linguistics or some other gay shit.

>>9161877
Well said.

>>9164066
People that stupid don't exist anon. You can't fool us.

>>9164066

>implying that autists like you meet anyone in real life

Also, what you described is just about the most autistic thing you could say in a conversation. The only people who care that deeply about how their religious beliefs are perceived are other autists

He is a bigger intellectual than anyone here will ever be.

I love him. There's such a strong sense of regret, nostalgia, wistfulness, and longing in his work... The feeling of a better world that is long gone with only vestiges remaining, and all the good and beautiful things leaving the earth. I cried at the end of The Lord of Rings.

>tfw they're shitting on the lore again with some shitty new vidya coming out

>>9161877
>>9162885
>>9163402
I came to this thread to offer my opinion but these posts sum it up better than I could ever articulate.
>>9165256
>vidya
As much as I hate shitty artists taking Tolkien's work and misinterpreting it REEEEE PETER JACKSON I really enjoyed Shadow of Mordor. The writing was nowhere near Tolkien's level, but there was enough lore that it still felt like Middle Earth and the gameplay itself was pure fun. Sometimes I wonder if Tolkien's work could spawn a video game with some actual artistic merit, with an actual writer at the helm. His writing lends itself to both the detail and action that games tend to rely on.

>>9161840
Of course.

>>9162973
dude was a reactionary nature loving monarchist

can't get more patrician than that

>>9165289
m8 did you even see that new trailer. It might as well be WoW.

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>>9162119
>I read a third of the novel
>It was kind of forgettable

The beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring is still among the comfiest pieces of literature ever written.

Even so, I view LOTR as more of a guilty pleasure than something I genuinely love. Like a literary mistress, rather than a literary wife. The thing about LOTR is that, the more I've read it, the more I've come to realize that it's mainly style - so much so that it very cleverly conceals a general lack of substance. The somewhat moraline aspect has also aged like milk, as far as I'm concerned.

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>>9165715
>mainly style concealing a lack of substance
>LOTR

>>9161840

Yes, I love Tolkien but that doesn't mean I think he's perfect.

He was a fantastic storyteller in the old style, including songs and poems and legends and history and tall-tales and whatnot even in the dialog of his characters. He fleshed out a fantasy world to an extent few before him had dreamed of, fashioned fully-functional languages some that weren't even used, and pulled off his books in such a way that they've become a fictional but personal mythology for young and old alike.

That said, his Catholic morality shines through harshly in the book, the "jolly old England" setting is (perhaps purposefully) bullshit, and he's got a hard-on for thinking that somehow everything will be perfect and good if the right person is put in charge. Let's not even get into his fetish for bloodlines and overlooking some cultures (why do the Elves get to go to Heaven, the Men become the Supreme Rulers of Earth, and the Dwarves basically are forced to die out without ever recovering their ancestral homes?).

Just because you love his writing doesn't mean you can't find flaws in his work.

>>9165812

I'm right, you know.

By the way, I'm not shitting on Tolkien. I've just stopped looking at him through rose-tinted glasses.

>>9165866
>That said, his Catholic morality shines through harshly in the book, the "jolly old England" setting is (perhaps purposefully) bullshit, and he's got a hard-on for thinking that somehow everything will be perfect and good if the right person is put in charge. Let's not even get into his fetish for bloodlines and overlooking some cultures (why do the Elves get to go to Heaven, the Men become the Supreme Rulers of Earth, and the Dwarves basically are forced to die out without ever recovering their ancestral homes?).
I don't really see these examples as necessarily being flaws.

>>9165866
>Elves go to Valinor reincarnated
>Humans go to heaven
>Dwarves die out because they weren't create by Eru

Read a book.

>>9161860
Roverandom is top tier comfy childs lit.

Pic related is a comfy edition if only for Tolkiens artwork.

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>>9165980
>he forgot the pic

>>9165715
What a fag

Tolkien's the type of man I strive to be like, maybe without the religion
Lived through one of the most brutal, unforgiving and scarring wars I can think of, losing friends in combat and still managed to live life the way he did, and appreciate it as well.
Like, reading Lord of the Rings and the way he wrote about nature in combination with anecdotes about his strong feelings about nature honestly warms my heart.
And even though he disliked allegory and such in his works, I still think if he wasn't exposed to the horrors of modern(at the time) warfare with machines, he wouldn't have been so famously anti-technology or wouldn't have made a story where the main character, a simple hill dwelling Hobbit, destroys a villain who's chief ally is practically a scientist

Dude's pretty cool

>>9166650
>maybe without the religion

Strive as hard as you want, you will never come close.

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>>9166812
yeah whatever zealot anon

>>9161840
I'm reading his books right now. I fuckin' love this guy.

I am nearing the end of The Return of the King.

I started reading Tolkien because I've read a lot of Ernst Junger, and JRR Tolkien, from what I knew, seemed to mirror him. That has proven true. Both possessed an aristocratic worldview, preferring hierarchy and tradition, and both were reeling from their experiences in World War 1 as well as modernity in general. Both retreated into art.

Junger and Tolkien fought against each other in World War 1, and I can't think of two writers with more in common, desu. Sorta sad, because the world united against them to demolish everything they held dear.

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>liking things that Harold Bloom doesn't
ISHYGDDT

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>>9161840
Yes. His work has tremendous merit.

The tragic and haunting beauty of Middle Earth will persist with me for as long as I am. Beleriand genuinely feels like some remote history where magic once was.

The sheer accomplishment of characters like Turin Turamabar or that of Feanor assures him a seat at the table.

>>9162885
>>9162885
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien#Views
>Christine Chism[111] distinguishes racist or racialist elements in Tolkien's views and works as falling into three categories: intentional racism,[112] unconscious Eurocentric bias, and an evolution from latent racism in Tolkien's early work to a conscious rejection of racist tendencies in his late work.

The internet was a mistake.

>>9161877
>Tolkien's work is, in my mind, firmly outside the 'fantasy' genre
It's okay to say that something good is part of a genre. Genre fiction doesn't literally mean a work within a genre, it only refers to those facsimiles you refer to.

And it certainly was fantasy. Tolkien didn't invent fantasy, he simply shaped it.

The films were fine, too. The Sam/Frodo/Gollum bits were even good.

Yeah, not simply for his imagination but for his use of mythological material and imagery

>>9166059
/b/

>>9165715
>The somewhat moraline aspect has also aged like milk, as far as I'm concerned.
The fuck do you think morals are fucking fashion trends?

>>9167460
>liking things that Harold Bloom doesn't
Harold Bloom likes Tolkien.

He also likes science fiction and other "genre" works.

>>9168580
Of course they are.

Last century was mainly dominated by conservative morals. Then the wind changed and liberal morals took over. It will change again if you wait long enough.

>>9168604
>Last century was mainly dominated by conservative morals. Then the wind changed and liberal morals took over.
vulgar hegelianism reeeeeeeeeee

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What was Aragorn’s tax policy?

And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

>>9168717
>What was Aragorn’s tax policy?
Presumably a levy on subordinate nobility, like any other feudal king.

>And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains.
Well, they're not going anywhere. They can't survive in daylight, after all. Sauron isn't around to blot out the sun for them.

>Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them?
Why would he need to? It would be costly and unnecessary. And military campaigns in mountainous terrain are always tricky.

>Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
George, I know you're off on one of your masturbatory fantasies here, but no, there was no need to butcher orclets in cradles. In fact, Tolkien never once mentions young orcs, or even female ones, in all the thousand-odd pages of LotR. How do you know they even reproduce sexually? And no, those scenes you wrote for your private amusement don't count.

Seriously, George, it's about time you saw a psychoanalyst. It can't be healthy going around with all this shit in your head. And if you genuinely can't construct a sentence in English, don't badmouth other authors who could.

>>9168717
Yes he led a series of wars to finish up the orcs and I'm pretty he went east to those humans as well can't remember.

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>>9162885
The image of an old Tolkien rising out of his seat at church and screaming in Latin is hilarious. What a guy.

>>9162885
>>9170333
Oh, whoops. I misread. He just answered the liturgy in Latin.

Still a great mental image regardless.

>>9162885

>made all the responses very loudly in Latin while the rest of the congregation answered in English

the absolute mad man

>>9161840
only the Hobbit

>>9168604
Goodnight, Hegel, you're drunk as bloody usual.

>>9165289
Have you played Sil? It's a roguelike that really nails tolkien

>>9166939
Junger recommend pls

>>9165866
Dwarves reincarnate, or at least the Seven Fathers do.

>>9165969
>>Dwarves die out because they weren't create by Eru
But dats racis

>>9172156
You should start with Storm of Steel, desu, his account of his experiences during World War 1. It's his first, best work. The book of his most similar to JRR Tolkien is On the Marble Cliffs, written during Nazi German. The transformation in his thought through the chronology of his writing is obvious, from writing in response to his experiences in WW1, to Nazi Germany, to modernity in The Glass Bees.

>>9172132
I will check it out, thanks.

To the other guy, I saw the trailer and take back everything I said about LotR vidya. Sony was a mistake.