"I loathe such things as jazz, the white-hosed moron torturing

>aristocrat has opinions of an elitist c*nt

whoa, mad!

>>9140397
Get with the times, gramps.

Old fart desu

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"azz serves a cultural function in the music scene. It is a signifier for musical "adulthood." To embrace jazz is to don a kind of graduation cap, signifying a broadening of tastes outside "mere" rock music. This ostentatious display of "sophistication" is an insult, and I find the graduation cappers transparent and tedious. Certainly there must be interesting music one could call "jazz." There must be. I've never heard it, but I grant that it is out there somewhere.
Jazz has a non-musical parallel: Christiania, the "free" zone in Copenhagen. In Christiania, like in jazz, there is no law. People are left to their own inventions to create and act as they see fit. In Jazz, the musicians are allowed to improvise over and beside structural elements that may themselves be extemporaneous. Sounds good, doesn't it? Freedom -- sounds good.
The reality is much bleaker. Christiania is a squalid, trashy string of alleys with rag-and-bone men selling drugs, tie-dye and wretched food. Granted Total Freedom, and this is what they've chosen to do with it, sell hash and lentil soup? Jazz is similar. The results are so far beneath the conception that there is no English word for the dissappointment one feels when forced to confront it. Granted Total Freedom, you've chosen to play II V I and blow a goddamn trill on the saxophone? Only by willfully ignoring its failings can one pretend to appreciate it as an idiom and don the cap."

>>9140408
Christiania is very nice desu.

t. Copenhagen fag

>>9140397
>I loathe [...] music in supermarkets
oh you mean like literally everyone

>>9140413
hey can i crash at your place? even airbnb places are at retarded prices in cph
tak min brör

>>9140408

Embarrassing

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>>9141094
"[jazz] sucks and I'm tired of hearing about it. Believe me I've tried. I just hate the parts I hate about it more than I like the little things there are to like. The batting average is just so low I can't bear the dead time between highlights being filled with all that noodling. It's vain music.”

Why did he have such an autistic hatred for Freud? Is it because Freud would have known that he was a pedo?

>>9141129

Freud's a shit.

>>9141109

I mean Steve is a hero in many respects but there's no reason to dress up his personal dislike of jazz idiom as some sort of indictment of the genre.

>>9140397
Based.

>>9140397
>swimming pools

Wtf Nabokov. This is top tier autism.

>>9141231
ikr? Swimming Pools is a good song.

>>9140397
maybe nabokov, if you saw la la land then maybe you would know what TRUE jazz is

>>9141215
But jazz is good, so he's wrong. That's not very based.

>>9141243
How can you be revolutionary when you're such a traditionalist m8?

>>9141252
u wot i just want to open a bar and not serve fookin tapas ya mad poofta

>>9141252
>>9141243
> even liking jazz

how can you like kenny g and not be gay haha jazz is so lame am i right huh huh haha jus a bunch of trumpets honk honkin about (please see my play tho im an artist haha nice)

>>9140397
He thought Kafka was the best authot of the 20th century but hated abstract bric a brac? Am I missing something?

well Vonnegut you rude cunt you're a hack ANYWAY what a twat chuckle FUCK you cool jazz dave brubeck dick sucking hipster macbook cafe nero starbucks abstract stream of consciousness CUNT

proper fucking russian

good lad

>>9140408
>Jazz
>Not Classical and Bossa Nova
Fucking cancer.

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>>9141291

>>9140408
>>9141109

He's right. The same goes for M'etal and almost all Classical composers. The triad of amusical wanking.

>Later came minutes, hours, whole days at last, when she'd be absent from our thoughts, so fast did life, the wooly caterpillar, run. We went to Italy. Sprawled in the sun on a white beach with other pink or brown Americans. Flew back to our small town. Found that my bunch of essays The Untamed Seahorse was "universally acclaimed" (it sold three hundred copies in one year). Again school started, and on hillsides, where wound distant roads, one saw the steady stream of carlights all returning to the dream of college education. You went on translating into French Marvell and Donne. It was a year of tempests: Hurricane Lolita swept from Florida to Maine. Mars glowed. Shahs married. Gloomy Russians spied. Lang made your portrait. And one night I died.

You call this writing, Nabokov?

>>9141306
>>9141391
oh look, it's the ''people only listen to classical music to appear sophisticated, nobody can actually enjoy it'' meme again

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>>9141464

There is enjoyment and enjoyment. The enjoyment one feels from Formalist music, derived from its inane Numerological whoopty doos, and one's game-like disentanglement of said whoopty doos, justifying one's time and effort spent on memorizing an equally inane Numerological model of Music that is fundamentally alien to the Human Spirit - as is Number itself - for no other reason than to eventually be able to disentangle Musical whoopty doos - you don't have to be particularly introspective to realize that this is a kind of Mental cuckoldry.

Whereas prima facie enjoyment is another thing altogether.

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>>9141306
>bossa nova
Please take your elevator music and leave, monkey man.

>>9141534
Please don't breed

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>>9141597
>is platonically a cuck
>has never held hands with a music
>talks to other about breeding

>>9141649
>has never held hands with a music
What did he mean by this?

>>9141438
Pale Fire is some of the finest writing put to paper, anon

>>9141391
>/mu/ brainlet can't handle the superior complexity of metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0EZ_1leSYU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Please off yourself.

>>9141534

Next time please put 'cuckoldry' closer to the start of your post so we don't have to waste our time reading any further.

>>9141559

>not liking Stan Getz

>>9141905
Metal is the STEM approach to music. They make up for their lack of talent with "complexity" which is really just turning music into an algorithm. Creativity is replaced with busywork. The similarity with classical music is superficial, as classical musicians utilized the same algorithms as tools of their craft rather than as crutches.

>>9140397
>hating jazz
>hating the only worthwhile black invention

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>>9141905
>tfw too smart to not listen to m'etal

>>9141969

>black invention

>>9141306
>implying bossa nova isn't just a subgenre of jazz

>>9141955

This seems targeted at a very specific type of metal. It definitely doesn't apply to thrash, black metal, stoner metal. In fact I'd say you're only really talking about technical death metal and post metal.

>>9141969

>disregarding rap music, the most /lit/ of all genres

Nigga..

>>9142007
rap is just cruder country with little to no emphasis on vertical movement

>>9142024

U wot m8

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>>9142024

Just...leave.

>>9141955
>>9142007
better than "spoken word" which has neither the emotional depth of music nor the semantic depth of literature

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What's this guy's problem, /lit/?

>>9140397
of all these things, /lit/ is triggered by his disparagement of jazz, rather than freud or marx. makes sense considering the type of uneducated posturing i've seen here.
>oh look another vivian darkbloom thread

>>9142101
no shirt

>>9142107
>>>/r/books

>>9142107
>t. LARP pro

>>9142107

But jazz is (or at least was) a great cultural movement which still stands up today as having produced and influenced much of the best music of the 20th century.

Meanwhile Marx and Freud are relics. They've had their influence, but nobody takes them seriously any more.

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>>9140397
This is music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8qvbaTatqk
This is shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09A4O7MG-_k

>>9142142
they are relics. but they founded discourses which were extremely influential when nabokov was writing, and are the point of his provocation. instead people here knee-jerk and talk about their feeling about music. pathetic

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>>9140397
>paedophile
>hates Freud

>>9142142
No, it was a shit cultural movement.

When you're an adult, you'll realize that not all artistic movements produce works of merit, even if all the history books mention them.

>>9142168
Jazz is for adults, when we're young we're easily fooled by rock, pop or metal. Then we learn, and we grow, we become better human beings.

>>9141955
No pham you're just retarded. It gets time and experience to get used to the more complex side of metal. What will sound to you like noisy wankery at first will turn into an orgy of musical contradictions one you've managed to discern the tiny nuances and infinitely complex arrangements. If you can't get it then you're a pussy, simple as that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp_Xlp0zpSk&feature=youtube_gdata_player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXkP4WS8Y_Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

>>9142155

I guess the thing for me at least is that Nabokov's reasons for hating Marx and Freud are clear through his writings. Whether I agree with them or not, I understand that he has his reasons and they are well developed. His hatred for jazz, though, just comes across as ignorance.

>>9142168

I'd like to retort that when you become an adult, you will realise that you have no authority as an arbiter of taste and that your throwaway dismissal of half the greatest musicians of a century has no weight carries no weight or relevance to anybody but yourself. Unfortunately, though, I doubt it. Many adults continue to bray their ignorant opinions their whole lives.

>>9142207
t. Thinks Kind of Blue is the best album in jazz
>>9142218
t. Thinks The Synarchy of Molten Bones was AOTY

>>9142230
t. /mu/tard

>>9142247
Was I right?

>>9142230
Deathspell omega is cancer.

>>9141942
Stan didn't only play bossa though

>>9141955
Do some liberal art majors actually think this about STEMlords or is it just a meme?

>>9142220
Yeah I think people who hate jazz have just listened to the wrong artists. Plenty of good jazz out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTwb-SJ_qK8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

>>9142024
it is! this guy gets it. implying you couldn't rewrite some lyrics in "one hell of a life" and turn it into a good ol' boy's piece.

>>9140397
>puffed up

classic nabokov

>>9141231
>>swimming pools
>Wtf Nabokov. This is top tier autism.
He was probably invited to mansion parties in the hollywood hills full of models and actors fucking in the pool and he was scared to take his shirt off

>>9141245
>>9140397
>jazz

He should have liked jazz, because his writing is jazzy, his use of frills and trills and colors and textures, and winding and waving and flowing and improvisation, and inspiration, and intuition

maybe he subconsciously saw this comparison, and saw "hey, I naturally do what those black guys naturally do, I must attempt to distance myself"

>>9141281
>but hated abstract bric a brac?
And wrote Pale Fire and Ada

To be fair, maybe he was talking about wayyyyy experimental poetry and avant garde stuff.

>>9142350
or maybe you're a retard. Nabokov's writing isn't "jazzy", don't make a comparison between literature and music again, you haven't the brains for it

HOW THE FUCK CAN SOMEONE HATE JAZZ YOU GODDAMN MOROOOOON

>>9142403
>The American is primitive in his artistic taste, both in what he enjoys as art and in his own artistic works. "Jazz" music is his music of choice. This is that music that the Negroes invented to satisfy their primitive inclinations, as well as their desire to be noisy on the one hand and to excite bestial tendencies on the other. The American's intoxication in "jazz" music does not reach its full completion until the music is accompanied by singing that is just as coarse and obnoxious as the music itself. Meanwhile, the noise of the instruments and the voices mounts, and it rings in the ears to an unbearable degree… The agitation of the multitude increases, and the voices of approval mount, and their palms ring out in vehement, continuous applause that all but deafens the ears

>>9142403
TOOTY-ROOTY-DROOOOOOOO-DIUDIDUDIDUDIUDIDU

>>9141438
Any other examples? Out of all, how did you come to choose that exact excerpt? Which I think is good-real nice writing

>>9142207
nice try, but i loathe those musical genres as well

>>9142220
i casually dismiss jazz as i casually dismiss dog turds when I see them on the sidewalk. I shit on you and your taste, you intellectual gnome

>>9141534
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idVYu4m0tgo
1:19:40


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov1yBmsAZtE

>>9140408
>II V I
>not ii V I
attend your own funeral white sightreading faggot

Bitching about genre superiority/inferiority is what you do if you're too dumb to analyze specific works.

>>9142285

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4pNezXJ7j8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8E52kECyZU
a love supreme clifford brown max roach bitches brew

>>9140397
The more you bitch about pseuds the more likely you are to in fact be a pseud

>>9140397
what an asshat blowhard

>>9142392
>Nabokov's writing isn't "jazzy"
Yes it is you absolutely fucking daft ingrate cretinous charlatanious mongolodial gaster of flabs,

>you haven't the brains for it
I go to Harvard genius

>>9141534
Underrated

>>9141534
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFylewBffuE

>>9142610
>I go to Harvard genius
oh WOW look at mister big dick overe here

>>9140408
>"azz

>>9142613
Music so dumb even a woman could play it.

>>9141534
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nbKCvmhEs8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7wKtmJlOb0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8CcmMXWmaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIdNvWMlf8w

>>9142392
>Nabokov's writing isn't "jazzy"
Out of all of his writing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT IT, not a single sentence, 20 or 50, contain elements similar to elements that can be found in one or 20 of the 50s of thousands of pieces of jazz music? YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKING IDIOT?

>>9142614
>oh WOW look at mister big dick overe here
Its actually quite small, for I have trained all my blood to rush to help engorgen my big brain

>>9140400
Jazz is that exact trash though.
>>9141245
Jazz isn't good, it only appeals to:
>Autistic children that don't actually like music beyond masturbatory wank, very similar to geetar wankers that adore Malmsteen
>People that don't actually know anything about music but listen to it to be a part of an ideology
>People that love a gumbo ruined by a handful of egotistical chefs that feel a need to dominate the entire dish
>Black Power supporters

Note one thing in common with all these people:
>"fake thinkers, puffed-up poets, frauds and sharks."

>>9142822
If someone, with out thinking, hears jazz and says: "I like that".

Are they wrong? Are they dumb?

>>9142963
Yes.

>>9142622
>Music so dumb even a woman could play it.
only a 0.000001% of them trained from birth like spiritual robots

>>9142427
>But who can teach the thoughts we should roll-call when morning finds us marching to the wall under the stage direction of some goon political, some uninformed baboon? We'll think of matters only known to us--empires of rhyme, Indies of calculus; listen to the distant cocks crow, and discern upon the rough gray wall a rare wall fern; and while our royal hands are being tied, taunt our inferiors, cheerfully deride the dedicated imbeciles, and spit into their eyes just for the fun of it.

>Nor can one help the exile, the old man dying in a motel, with the loud fan revolving in the torrid prairie night and, from the outside, bits of colored light reaching his bed like dark hands from the past offering gems; and death is coming fast. He suffocates and conjures in two tongues the nebulae dilating in his lungs.

It's a poem from which I playfully removed the line breaks to make it seem like prose. It's from the same poem the excerpt from the OP is from. It's called Pale Fire.

>>9141666
I love Nabokov and was being ironic. I agree. Nabokov isn't discussed enough here -- seriously, I mean, about his literature, not just his controversial literary views.

>>9143017
I was the shadow of the waxwing slain by the false azure in the windowpane; I was the smudge of ashen fluff—and I lived on, flew on, in the reflected sky. And from the inside, too, I’d duplicate myself, my lamp, an apple on a plate: uncurtaining the night, I’d let dark glass hang all the furniture above the grass, and how delightful when a fall of snow covered my glimpse of lawn and reached up so as to make chair and bed exactly stand upon that snow, out in that crystal land!

[...]

But it's not bedtime yet. The sun attains old Dr. Sutton's last two windowpanes. The man must be--what? Eighty? Eighty-two? Was twice my age the year I married you. Where are you? In the garden. I can see part of your shadow near the shagbark tree. Somewhere horseshoes are being tossed. Click. Clunk. (Leaning against its lamppost like a drunk.) A dark Vanessa with crimson band wheels in the low sun, settles on the sand and shows its ink-blue wingtips flecked with white. And through the flowing shade and ebbing light a man, unheedful of the butterfly-- some neighbor's gardener, I guess--goes by trundling an empty barrow up the lane.

>>9140397
>shitting on jazz
Adorno did it first

>>9140397
the more I see of Nabokov on /lit/, the more I dislike him.

>>9143017
>It's from the same poem the excerpt from the OP is from
OHHH.... pfftfttf... so this is not necessarily nabokovs views.......

these fucking smarmily coy charlatanic posters

>>9143017
Top notch writing, wtf I love Nabokov now!

What stands out most about this writing, that impresses and inspires and pleases me, is the variancy of concepts, items, ideas (the other one you posted had this same quality, he went over vast amounts of times and spaces in the span of a sentence or two), its all over the place in the best of ways, cohesive, sensical, etc.

>>9143077
>Eighty-two? Was twice my age the year I married you. Where are you?
>Click. Clunk. (Leaning against its lamppost like a drunk.

Did he seriously like rhyme? Was he admiring/poking fun at eliot? How much does the 999 poem align with Nabokov and his tastes?

>>9140397
Always knew he was shit but >>>/trash/.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0xFd2MQMc4

>>9142107
He's wrong about all three desu lad

>>9140397
He's right about everything he says here except bullfighting which is enjoyable. Did Nabokov hate himself as well? He's the definition of a puffed up, fake thinking fraud

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>>9143442
>right about everything
>He's the definition of a puffed up, fake thinking fraud

>>9143412
>He's wrong about all three desu lad
>He's right
>>9143442

Guys. It is an excerpt from a Poem in one of his Novels, said by a character. There is no reason to believe (all of) these are Nabokovs views

>>9143451
Those two things are not mutually exclusive, I think Nabokov is a dickhead but I recognize his views. Nabokov's being a dickhead is the main reason people like him.

>>9143488
Is it right to say that Nabokov's characters are a projection of his own more than other authors? His protagonists strike me as having been written with a great ability of introspection

>>9142822
I don't associate music with intellect, it's just pleasing to the ears. Maybe that grumpy old prick should've realized that, but he won't because he had no empathy.

>>9143565
omg if you disagree with me, you must be a GRUMPY OLD EVIL FASCIST NAZI TRUMP WHITE MALE

>>9143348
>poking fun at eliot
I think he hated Eliot, or disliked his writing since hate seems to be too strong for someone he didn't know personally. He parodies Ash Wednesday at the end of Lolita with Humbert's poem to Quilty

>>9140397
>Nabokov, Vladimir: an edgemaster. fat. jealous and pompous. is famous because of being a pedophile. says the only things he rapes are butterflies but we all know better. an author for 8-12, he wouldn't like them any older.

>>9143652
Nabokov BTFO

>>9142247
holy shit he triggered you

>>9142599
space is the place

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https://youtu.be/jvXywhJpOKs

>hates jazz
>listens to incessant screaming
>vargbanshee.wav

XD https://youtu.be/OHJfDKAeP4M

~ https://youtu.be/gFkUVik35U8

https://youtu.be/kgkNDj5pYTM

>>9142142
>>9142142
>Marx and Freud are relics
Yeah, sure dude, I'm literally reading a book about a freudian approach to aesthetics and one about theology and marxism (both published in the last 15 years).

>>9142281
STEMlords act that way, I almost dropped college due to all the cringe these people made me feel on a daily basis with their Dream Theater shirts and new balances. Some guy literally stopped a 60 yo professor of philosophy of language or some shit once to tell her philosophers dislike positivism because it proves them wrong.

>>9142281
All majors and non-majors feel this way.

>>9141955
They also believe everything falls under mathematical modules and strict patterns. The moment your partner shows you a crinkly printout of statistical data and graphs assessing which sex positions are more popular by region... How do you describe this feeling? They don't know how to make sense of anything and have an extremely rigid, limited way of thinking. Please don't remind me.

>>9144588
Mathematical models are not strict patterns - or not what people think patterns are, anyways, necessarily. I feel that there's a mathematical model for everything, but I don't think that means anything more than for me to say that I think things have causes, and that one thing follows from another.

>>9144557
No excuse for that guy, though.

>>9143552
>Is it right to say that Nabokov's characters are a projection of his own more than other authors?
I believe the most scientific way of answering that question is:
How many characters did Nabokov write?
What percentage of what percentage of them do you think are pure Himness, his true thoughts feelings and perspective on things?

Itt

Butthurt plebs

>>9143573
desu that's exactly what Nabby was

why does everyone have on 4chan have a hateboner for jazz?

>>9142392
It is pretty jazzy

>>9140397
/ourguy/

>>9144684

because it sucks

>>9140397
What was his problem with swimming pools?

If Nabokov loved aesthetics so much, what did he think of FW?

>>9144747
I think he just did not like dirt, sweat, piss and other things from other people in there. Obviously, they are there in microscopic amounts, but the thought of it probably irritated him.

>>9143644
But could he really have, if he himself had to artistically inspired and executed, a very good-great 999 line poem (touching upon at least once styles of eliot, or even more directly, as eliot wrote long poems), could he really hate on eliot, if he (no matter if he felt, 'he wws doing it satirically, or mocking, making fun of poetry teachers? as lolita can be making fun of peadophiles... but this is different, because the poem is about artistic inspiration and quality, meaningfulness, the poem has seriously good qualities, he is not necessarily trying to say that paedephiles have really good qualities, it is just high quality language use,) and yes he didnt need a and ultimately that poems form to showcase his poetic and antiprosaic skills and expressive desires, observations, thoughts even if they are for other characters, potential real or impossible humans'.

so he hates on eliot, but then writes a poem potentially touching upon eliots style, and its considered a masterpiece. Is this simply saying, I can do what you do better than you?

But still, its hard to go line for line and say all the ones that are better, I havent read enough of each to say, but if it is possible nobokv wins, that is deffinitly that, but if there is some decent amount in which comparively, even though wholly the 999 poem is considered a masterpiece as itself, as a poetic work of art, line to line relates relatively line by line, even 20% of eliots lines are better, it would then be, nabookov almost having to admit, your style, and idea, and execution, is admirable, and inspiring, and it is fun to poetically play this way

I assume he's just joking, everybody loves jazz.

>>9144684
its black.

Just kidding. Honestly, I think it's because a lot of the affect of jazz is lost in studio recording. You gotta see it live to get the whole picture. 4chan doesn't do "in the flesh" sort of deals.

>>9140397
WTF I love Nabokov now!

>>9144688
>It is pretty jazzy
what other types of music do you think relate to his writing? I think of like piano playing in a tea room.

>class-conscious philistines
What did he mean by this?

>>9140408
fucking horrendous comparison

i like big black cocks

>>9145019
im honored bruv

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>>9145019

>>9143652
holy...

>>9144827
Jazz is trash and you're either a faggot or a bitch

>>9145019
This.

>>9140397

>class-conscious philistines

This.

I know some of you think this is relative but it's not. I have to throw my post in the mob to say that jazz is in fact the best music. The fact that a lot of it is bad has to do with the fact that people who play jazz are explorers. There is so much more to be done in the jazz framework than in any other style of music, aside from things influenced by jazz. That means there is a higher chance to find something "off putting" in jazz than your formulaic, consistently bland and cheap rock and pop counterparts.

This is not to say rock and pop is always bad, but they only see the tip of the iceberg whereas jazz explores the deepest extents and the space it exists in. All poioneering music is going to be some ironic reflection of what we have now, somebody with a lucky voice, or things that have floated to the top from the help of the most musically aware jazz musicians.

>>9145279
Why do you think so?

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>>9145331
>>>/mu/

>>9145345
Hey man,I got to defend my love when it is threatened.

>>9142459
Can someone explain this to me? I knwo virtually nothing about Nabokov.

>>9144884
I've been to jazz shows and they were no better than the recordings. It's just trash.

>>9144823
dude people i dont like CANNOT BE GOOD

>>9145331
False, jazz is itself formulaic with an equivalent quantity of musical 'profundity' as all other forms of popular music, in addition to further aesthetic 'profundity' inflated by your kind.

guys to be fair in 1962 jazz wasn't that great yet. I mean fucking CLASSIC quick opinions about genre you know nothing about. But if he had heard jazz in the 21st century he'd probably be a lot more impressed.
t. jazz fag

>>9146559
Jazz is bad then and now, and will always be bad.

>>9142218

Why don't you post Ulver, Deathspell Omega and Neurosis Instead?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvmMmwdqkzM&ab_channel=Epiphyte

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVcjf_p5pDY&t=24s&ab_channel=VacuumOrbis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjQxbVlHSYw&ab_channel=GoodStuff

They all had /lit/ influences too.

>>9146507
Comparing the two shows your ignorance.

>>9147028
lol comparing thing i dont like with thing i like means ur stuped

>>9147021
DsO is one of the few metal bands formed by people who are capable of good art.

(along with Liturgy and link-related(who is the best))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeUZkn3GA9I&t=47s

>>9147068
>liturgy and link related
fuck off