Past Thread of 4 Chan's Predictions as a World Aesthetic

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Daily reminder that Hegel is not an idealist, he is a phenomenologist and nothing more.

>>9108141
Hegel is a WIZARD. Hegel is an occultist. More people need to read that one article, the prologue to that one book.

>>9108141
Congratulations?

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it was deleted in less than 10 hours with decent replies

>>9109248
Damn. It really said a lot about technology and culture and I wanted to start a reading list based on some of the posts that were discussed. Thanks though, maybe you'd be interested in recapping some of the texts and concepts that were brought up?

>>9108262

kek

>>9110529
toppest of keks

>>9108130
I would but your use of passive voice bugs me

>>9112030
Not OP. Link the thread.

>>9108130
>>9112033
archive bros
https://warosu.org/lit/thread/S9093696

>>9112048
Thanks. I think some people might be working on a technology and culture reading list but this thread would be a good place for inputs.

>>9112149
i would definitely be interested in a list like that

>>9112169
A long time ago there was a similar thread in which a digital humanities guy posted. I think I might have some of his recommendations. I've always been interested in cultural studies myself.

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>>9108130
4th wave post-cyberpunk Catholic socialism
Anime avatars against accelerationism
Classical music, contemporary and ancient
Pink noise
And space ambient
Everyone
is
connected

>>9112225
All of those put together sound like one hell of a drugged induced philosophy, one that might have some sort of potential.

>>9112225
It occurs to me that we're in a really wacky compendium where a lot of old traditions and institutions are around, at least in vestigial form, and as a result they have full access to all this breathtaking technology. We're living in the future, but the past gets to use the future too, so to speak.

>>9112206
post some if you can remember or find them

>>9112287
I downloaded some of the articles I could get access to. If I can find the folder I put them all in I'd gladly share their titles. They were about some interested popular culture subjects if I recall. I think the original poster had a journal article on bronies and one about sexuality in regards to net culture.

>>9112270
With the founding of the democratic state we've discarded the church as an institution and by extension the normative presuppositions imposed by it, opting instead for the institution of selfhood and representative government. Democracy only works within the context of certain normative presuppositions since if for instance direct representation were provided to a population of madmen and scoundrels voting would not be very effective. With no institution to guarantee those normative presuppositions ad-hoc ethics prevails. Communicative action can't take place unless intersubjective norms are established, and the democratic state can't sufficiently establish them. As a direct result of this those normative presuppositions which were the object of democratic deliberation are now the subject of it. This has a dis-integrating effect on the whole.
Technological advancement follows a mimetic form, as long as the state remains secularized progress will be just an advanced kind of crypto-paganism.
With internet hubs like 4chan perhaps people are rediscovering more patristic kinds of knowledge.
We are an accidental university, the dying flame of Christianity artificially rekindled in the vacuum of secularism as a vicious plasma.

>>9112354
>We are an accidental university, the dying flame of Christianity artificially rekindled in the vacuum of secularism as a vicious plasma.
I nearly shed a tear.

Who else is logging into LambdaMOO after reading the article in the old thread

Here it is again if anyone else wants to read it
http://www.juliandibbell.com/texts/bungle_vv.html

>>9113011
Can you give a basic gestalt of it?

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>>9113032
>They say he raped them that night. They say he did it with a cunning little doll, fashioned in their image and imbued with the power to make them do whatever he desired. They say that by manipulating the doll he forced them to have sex with him, and with each other, and to do horrible, brutal things to their own bodies. And though I wasn't there that night, I think I can assure you that what they say is true, because it all happened right in the living room -- right there amid the well-stocked bookcases and the sofas and the fireplace -- of a house I came for a time to think of as my second home.

done

>>9113011
>>9113043
Oh gosh I remember that incident. It gets bandied around a bit by those of us who are interested in the social implications of the internet.

Bump since this is such an interesting thread

>>9113043
Kek

>>9113011
mr bungle is like a proto-4channer, what a web legend

>>9113895
The granddaddy of 4channers

>>9114089
I'd say he's probably posted here, but then again he must have been into his 30s by the time this place really took off. By then he might have become a respectable salaryman with a wife and children, too busy to keep up with internet culture or something to that extent.

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Does anyone else find that the best way to approach the internet, and web culture, is from a vaguely mystical, magical perspective?

It is kind of an 'otherworld.' It bears some resemblance to the 'real' world, and some connection to it, but it's also fundamentally unreal, unmoored by the weights which bear down on reality. It's a strange, unreal place, where almost anything can happen. It's almost Wonderland-esque.

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>>9115341
I GOT YOU FAMPAI.
The interior mansions was great too.

>>9115359
Yeah, Teresa of Avila is great. There are times when you read her and think she's crazy, but then you start to get the gist of what she's saying, and it becomes really relatable and understandable. I feel like more people today should read her, she speaks to the disquiet that plagues a lot of minds.

>>9115424
John of the cross too. Carmelites made good mystics for some reason.

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>>9115341
haven't read this yet but i imagine it applies. might be a bit dated though; it's from the mid 90s.

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>>9115341
>>9115359
>>9115424
I can't take this "mental prayer" thing seriously any more.

>>9114222
He is apparently still very much a citizen of the net.

>>9110326
cant sry

>>9115574
is this you're oblique way of telling us you're him?

>>9115603
I would never do that.

>Following Mr. Bungle's actions, several users posted on the in-MOO mailing list, *social-issues, about the emotional trauma caused by his actions. One user whose avatar was a victim, called his voodoo doll activities "a breach of civility" while, in real life, "post-traumatic tears were streaming down her face". However, despite the passionate emotions including anger voiced by many users on LambdaMOO, none were willing to punish the user behind Mr. Bungle through real-life means.

>>9115435
They had a powerful patroness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Mount_Carmel

this page might be of interest, reading material from i suppose an old umichigan class on virtual communities
http://www.umich.edu/~comm464/virtcomm/articles4.html

links are mostly dead but they can be easily found with a web search

i hate this "aesthetic" meme

>>9112225
What does post-cyberpunk mean? What is pink noise?

>>9116823
It means "we don't understand cyberpunk but we think it needs to be updated for modern times".

>>9117123
or it can also mean that as cool as cyberpunk is, it is a fun but dated aesthetic that looks more like some 80s future whereas postcyberpunk reflects more how technology and the online actually is turning out and heading

>>9117263
>>9117123

>>9117263
I still don't understand what postcyberpunk looks like. Do you have any examples?

>>9117493
Serial Experiments Lain is probably the most iconic and definitive example so far.

Or, simply put, actual current reality and 4chan meme culture/campaigns. A mix of the suburban, memes, global geopolitics, maybe a bit of occultism, etc.

>>9117496
Like, the Meme Wars this last year continuing into this year, and all the memes and video content etc that it produced, is post-cyberpunk.

I mean, there was just the other day 50 million in funding given to an ad agency to come up with a counter-propaganda campaign in England to help fight online reactionary memes. It's essentially cyberpunk, but the aesthetic isn't what Neuromancer or Blade Runner anticipated, it's... well... this.

>>9117496
Oh, well that's cool. It makes me feel like I'm a part of it.

>>9117496
SEL is not representative of the genre. GotS is better, and shit like Infinity or Vurt represents its standard dross.

It's an autistic obsession with making cyberpunk "more realistic", or "more mature", as if the point of cyberpunk is to portray an accurate vision of our future.
>>9117506
I hate all this "anticipation" shit. It's like the retards who condemn Orwell for not "anticipating" our obviously-Huxleyan society.

>>9117522
Ghost in the Shell is cyberpunk, not post-cyberpunk.

Lain is regarded as probably one of the only visual representatives of post-cyberpunk so far.

You might not care about the intent of the idea, and prefer more far-out expressions of sci-fi (although I'd say cyberpunk is a tired cliche at this point), but it's still a thing.

I almost think of post-cyberpunk more as just fiction pertaining to a more heightened or intensified present rather than about a future.

>>9117535
>Ghost in the Shell is cyberpunk, not post-cyberpunk.
No, it's very definitely post-cyberpunk. It's on the wiki page and everything, which is about as good as it gets when you're defining mostly fan-created genres.
>cyberpunk is a tired cliche
Yeah cliches are definitely something you want to watch out for when you're writing literature. Much better to just trample out any originality your work would have, because you're too terrified to just do what you want and instead must avoid anything that's "overdone".

>>9117545
No, the wiki page calls Ghost in the Shell cyberpunk. Aesthetically it's very cyberpunk.

I see a page for Stand Alone Complex referring to post-cyberpunk though.

In some cases I'm seeing examples of postcyberpunk sometimes being futuristic but not as dystopian.

But then there's the more augmented or intensified present stuff like Pattern Recognition or Lain.

>>9117569
>In some cases I'm seeing examples of postcyberpunk sometimes being futuristic but not as dystopian.
Yeah, that'd be a short description of how everyone describes post-cyberpunk.

Where, exactly, are you getting your definition from?

>>9115903
Looks like just a basic formulation of a small bibliography of some good resources. I am sure there are some more modern ones but I can't think of any particular ones worth sharing.

>>9117506
They think 50 million shekels will be able to defeat meme magic? Top Kek.

>>9117506
Can ya link me an article on that? Sounds fascinating

>>9118151
They don't even need to. Within here, contrarianism is running its course -- we already make fun of people who say stuff like "based" or "top kek" -- and outside is mostly Reddit and the like, so fifty million shekels will actually do something.

>>9118164
I think there is still more contrarianism out there beyond Brexit. Waiting for Scotland to leave you all.

>>9118167
I meant in 4chan.

I personally am mad as shit that Scotland didn't leave. If they had I might be going to uni for a third of the cost.

>>9118169
In this climate 4chan is becoming an ally to the real life anti- "PC" shitposters you see on TV and elsewhere.

So why would Scotland's leave have significantly cut your uni costs by the way? European and Englando politics fascinate me.

>>9118177
As far as I'm (admittedly not very) aware, if England and Scotland split off they'd no longer be able to stop us Anglos from going to their uni at their own (lowered, tax-subsidised) prices, as they are meant to do according to the EU. As it is we have to pay the standard England price.

But in fairness I deliberately avoided all this information out of butthurt.

>>9118183
But since England is going to leave the EU then wouldn't those lower rates in Scotland apply to only fellow EU members? I'm also interested in seeing the impact the moving of Nuclear out of Scotland into elsewhere in England. I wonder just how much that would do to Scotland's economy.

>>9118196
Yes, I think that's the case.

I was talking about the Yes/No vote, back when we were all in the EU.

>>9113011
>And then there were what I'll call the technolibertarians.
>>9113032
>Can you give a basic gestalt of it?
>>9113218
>those of us who are interested in the social implications of the internet
>>9114089
>>9113895
>4channer

All of you kill yourselves, and make the world a better place.

>>9118211
I don't have a gun and hanging seems too painful.

>>9118219
Hanging isn't painful at all.

What it is is easy to fuck up. I myself have considered cutting my own throat, but despite the aesthetic considerations that seems impractical.

>>9118247
What are the techniques of hanging that allow me not to suffer much?

>>9118255
I wouldn't trust myself to do it properly with instruction. Instead, I'm going to do something really stupid and dangerous and if it works out then so much the better.

>>9118268
I wish I had a gun to just shoot myself in head, but they are hard to get.

>>9118272
something something I'll have sex with your corpse

>>9118281
I don't care, have fun.

>>9118309
faggot

>>9118313
As I said, I don't care, I'll be dead. At least someone would have sex with me for once.

>>9118321
I hope you have a good stick with which to beat off the wild beast (me)

>>9118323
You have to find me first.

>>9112149
So how about that culture and technology reading list?

>>9117572
I recall the older definition on a wiki page (I think its own page, previously) on postcyberpunk describing the more heightened present types of postcyberpunk, but at the moment there's only a postcyberpunk subsection on the cyberpunk wiki page, which briefly just refers to like less dystopian cyberpunk.

I have seen it used in both ways, but I find it much more compelling as something almost just describing our reality now (and when in fact the reality - the recent Meme Wars etc - is actually much weirder and perhaps even more magical - than the fiction).

>>9118151
Kek. You should see the pathetic little meme/ joke image that the ad guys came up with so far. It's just some ironic 90s-pop-punk-album-cover-looking superhero guy called Bullshitman that progressives are supposed to be able to use to fight "fake news" (memetic warfare)

>>9119066
>I recall the older definition on a wiki page (I think its own page, previously) on postcyberpunk describing the more heightened present types of postcyberpunk, but at the moment there's only a postcyberpunk subsection on the cyberpunk wiki page, which briefly just refers to like less dystopian cyberpunk.

I wrote this kind of unclearly. I meant that there used to be a postcyberpunk wiki page that had a definition of it of it describing, I think among other types, the "heightened present" notion I was referring to. But then saying that at the moment there is only a postcyberpunk subsection on the wikipedia cyberpunk page, where the definition of it describes something more like normal cyberpunk but just less dystopian.

>>9119066
>>9119078
Which is the thing I'm saying is a soulless scooping of everything it means to be cyberpunk.

bullshitman is basically the brendanfrasier.jpg of advertising

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http://baltimore-art.com/2017/02/11/the-aesthetics-of-the-alt-right/

Has anyone read this? It seems relevent to the thread.

>>9119161
How serious is that image trying to be? How sincere does the maker think of themselves as?

>>9119066
Tell us more? I love how they waste money thinking they can be hip and with it. Few people actually take the time to try and understand such movements and cultures.

>>9119155
Redpill me on brendan fraiser?

>>9119161
Well, they're not wrong.

>>9119155
What are you talking about?

>>9115341
/R/sorceryofthespectacle

wow, an entire thread about current cyberculture and how it intersects with the politics and social trends of the real world, and not a single reference to Nick Land.

Good job guys.

>>9120218
we overdosed on NL in the past 2 weeks.

>>9112225
>4th wave post-cyberpunk Catholic socialism
this is genuinely pretty close to my philosophy

>>9121260
Tell me more. Can we get some reading lists? Core beliefs and values systems? Charts? Key Texts?

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>>9121264
i'm still working it out. the 1st wave isn't even born. the essence:
>post-cyberpunk
Marxist/historical materialist analysis of capitalism, specifically concerned with the AI/automation frontier delivering capitalism to its final, transitional stagnation stage due to the tendency of the rate of profit to fall/rising organic composition of capital. more realistic visions of a cyberpunk world based on this.
>socialism
socialist/communitarian ethics
>Catholic
rejection of traditional anti-religious Marxism. neoplatonic/Gnostic/Christian metaphysics and mysticism, inspired by the anxieties of living in a dying age and the mind's increasing disassociation from material reality via digital technology.

>>9119161
The part about anime is extremely wrong. Anime of all kinds has inherit reactionary ideology, that's why this site became what it is politically. I personally started getting more open about christianity and religion because of the anime aesthetic description of it.

>>9121797
>Anime
"Yes I am a Christian that is why I live in this Christian shrine with my father like all Christians do and I wear a slutty Nun outfit and what do you mean this is just shintoism with a cross slapped on?"

>>9121797
I find this fascinating since most of the religious people I know tend to lean pretty anti-anime.

>>9122565
>giving me americunt baby boomers as an example

>>9122670
Fair point.

Check out some of Bejamin Bratton's work. His commentary on technology and culture is pretty incisive. Theres a couple of articles online, and a lot of videos of lectures he's given.

This is from an essay about smartphones and cities, but i think its relevant to 4chan:
>Pervasive computing will make inanimate objects see,
hear and comment on our interactions with them. This experience will,
in many cases, be indistinguishable from a psychotic break, or from
the affinity rituals of classical animism. In a recent interview, Paul
Virilio notes that today’s qualities of technology – instantaneity, ubiquity,
immediacy – are those associated with the divine. The killer application
of pervasive computing is not advertising to the hipster flâneur; it is
religion, and its impact on Abrahamic monotheisms will be turbulent,
existential and fertile.

I think the whole Kek / meme magic is perhaps the start of this. Funny how a cult based on frogs and repeating numbers has emerged. It used to be a meme based on Patrick Bateman and now has morphed into pol's religion.