What's so bad about hedonism?

>>9092212
It goes against God's will.

Any philosophical ideology that isn't ubiquitous cannot be true. Can a society function if everyone in it is a hedonist? Nope, hence hedonism is retarded.

Deliberately seeking out to maximise pleasure actually interferes with experiencing pleasure. It's too self-aware.

>>9092230
>everyone in society should have the same role and functions, the same desires
Fuck off, fascist.

>>9092294
>triggered tumblrina

>>9092294
Not an argument

>>9092212
>What's so bad about hedonism?

Undesirable people don't get much out of it.
Proof: this thread.

>>9092327
If you took a second to think about anything at all, you absolute fuck up, you would see that your comment does not go against mine in ANY way because I was advocating for people to have DIFFERENT roles and places in society.

>>9092328
Ironic.

>>9092294
>>9092327

Y'all know there is a happy medium between these options, right?

>>9092348
There is the redpill or there are subversive lies.

>>9092230

>Can a society function if everyone in it is a fireman? Nope, hence becoming a fireman is retarded.

That's some grade-A reasoning there champ.

Any life style that is adverse to suffering is a bad one. You can only grow and strengthen yourself by experiencing misery and hardship. Hedonists are cowards.

>>9092384
>You can only grow and strengthen yourself by experiencing misery and hardship
>being this ideologically cucked

>>9092386
explain to me how I'm wrong

it's anti-human

it goes against the chance mutation of our species: will

we should live like irrational romantics, not indulgent lethargic blobs

>>9092348
I'm not disagreeing with you, but stop using y'all

>>9092327
Thread is finished here.

>>9092212
I'm never happy, so I don't want anyone else to be

>>9092396
>implying hedonists are truly happy

>>9092401
This is what I tell myself. That or "they're happy, but they'll never be content.

>>9092384

>Any life style that is adverse to suffering is a bad one. You can only grow and strengthen yourself by experiencing misery and hardship. Hedonists are cowards.

Pure ressentiment, reeks of lower-class upbringing and flagellating self-hatred.

Read Nozick's "Experience Machine".

>>9092413
Utopia. Can't come quick enough

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My ideal life is one of long periods of hard work broken up by short segments of extreme self-indulgence

>>9092401

>"""""truly""""" happy

Well neither are the non-hedonists, and the hedonists seem to be having a much better time.

>>9092409
I wonder how you reached that conclusion... I have no self-hatred and feel no resentment towards life or anyone.

>>9092421
Mine too. The only good option.

>>9092430
How can YOU know how YOU feel?

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>>9092348

Le happy medium man

>>9092483
how can YOU know how I feel?

>>9092500
>Le implying the middle option is superior is sometimes a fallacy, so I'll pretend the middle option is always inferior man

>>9092505
How can I know how YOU feel?

>>9092356
>comparing a job with philosophical ideology
That's some grade-A reasoning there champ.

>>9092532
The goal of ethical philosophy (e.g., categorical imperative) is to work out how to live, anon. It is easily BTFO by moral relativity. Get over it and embrace character morality.

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>>9092230
>Can a society function if everyone in it is a hedonist?
And what exactly do you think America is, Anon? Sure a small minority cling to religion but everyone else is just here to have a good time.

>>9092420
You could get it now by killing yourself.

>>9092571
This orgasmic gif really made me think.
Also, is that Jeff Buckley?

>>9092540
The categorical imperative is enforced by natural selection.

>>9092623
In its ideal it was meant to. At the time it was the goal of ethical philosophy to discover a universal law of morality, similar to physics, biology, etc.

But it doesn't exist, because unlike physics and biology, morality is a product of the human mind and therefore its configuration is relative to each human organism.

>>9092643
In other words, you don't know about chaos theory and what an attractor is.

A herd: a collection of species where the congregation reduces the constraints of survival by changing the environment, but replaces them with the constraints of the herd.

A Society: a symbiotic relationship where the collective action is greater than the sum of individual action as long as the action is managed (corroboration) and the benefits are shared (cooperative agreement).

Those who treat society like a herd are banished.

Hedonism also violate time travel paradox. You could never be selfish if you didn't enjoy the benefits of the society.

Any attempts to justify selfish behavior is rhetorical.

You didn't build this.

>>9092653
Explain how chaos theory refutes his point. I hope you don't pretend that chaotic systems aren't determined and aren't theoretically predictable.

>>9092653
Teleology, like causation, is a leap of faith, anon.

>>9092287
I like your point a lot.

>>9092213
deus valt amirite

>>9092659
The point is that morality has to have an end state because it evolves according to a set of rules.

>>9092287
Can you elaborate? This is an interesting point

>>9092571
Heh yeah this for sure. Speaking of which does this board of eternal virgins even realize that almost all stoic or austere philosophers lived inside of cultures that were also mostly hedonistic? The only reason why normies even act like they go along with this stuff is so they feel better about fucking around on their wife/husband/etc. Or have some other guilt complex. It's all a sham no large group of humans has ever been sexually austere just ask the Catholic Church.

Try it. It's very apparent after a while. And the experience of your reflection upon it isn't something I can really convince you of because it will sound trite.

Who's this semen demon?

>>9092779
My girlfriend. Stop looking at her.

>>9092212
You'll end up discontented and hanging from your ceiling.

Hedonism like with anything needs to be done in moderation. Things stop being pleasurable of those pleasures are the only things you experience, even sex and drugs
>>9092327
>said by the "superior" white man who had accomplished nothing in his life

>>9092287
>Deliberately seeking out to maximise pleasure actually interferes with experiencing pleasure. It's too self-aware.

Ok, instead of Absolute Hardcore Hedonism, how about 'towards the hedonistic side of things'

>>9092327
>art deals with emotions
>women (according to redpills) are extremely emotional
>implying they aren't perfectly suited to artistic pursuits while sensible stoic men aren't perfectly suited to meticulous boring housework

>>9092657
>Any attempts to justify selfish behavior is rhetorical.
living at all is selfish?

>>9092500
Le only two options man.

>>9092731
Trying to get sex too much ruins sex and makes it boring

Experiencing sex with some1 you love feels better and doesnt burn out as easily as the hedonist's sex methods

Hedonism is unsustainable

>>9092720
>Observes change
>it must be going somewhere specific
>because I said so, that's why

>>9092212
Enjoy what you will, but don't let it dictate your life.

It promotes moral degeneration and personal decay

>>9092212
It leaves out intellectual fulfillment

>>9094731
Not if that's what you enjoy, anon.

>>9094733
Yes, if you let it take over your well being.

>>9094733
It is kind of a basic need, so it's not a matter of preference. There is a reason why people don't just plug a cable into their pleasure center and stimulate it constantly for never-ending pleasure, or just become hooked to heroin on purpose for constant trips.

Women are fucking scary.

>>9094642
But 2 is fundamentally more hedonistic than 1, as you're seeking out deeper and more profound pleasure. 1 is just being shortsighted and greedy.

>>9092212
Drugs are bad, m'kay?

>>9094787
A hedonist's highest value is pleasure, and he is constantly seeking it. 1 is typical hedonist behaviour, the person is constantly trying to have sex. 2 never implies that the person is seeing sex as a goal.

>>9094733
This is my problem with hedonism, if you take it to broadly mean anything you enjoy, rather than just physical pleasures like sex and drugs, it loses all meaning.

Claiming to have a philosophy of "doing things you like" is retarded, because it presupposes you have a bunch of different values that cause you to like those things anyway.

>>9092212
In my experience it reduces the quality of an individual in every way. Namely: lesser self-discipline, lesser experiences, lesser intelligence, lesser aptitude, less able to remove or partially remove oneself from their perspective; the list goes on. Overall you get a disgusting, useless creature that is a slave to pleasure and habit who can't think outside of those two things.

Then again, those things aren't actually bad when you take a step back. Nothing has objective worth or meaning, so if a hedonist dies somewhat happy or fulfilled, from their perspective. I'd say they had a better life than most of us.

It's bad if you have a cohesive goal or viewpoint of the world because it isn't really conducive to achieving it. Like if you wanted humanity to stretch across the universe and dominate in wonderful art and technology grandeur - hedonism isn't conducive to making that happen, rather it regresses it.

Also I'm speaking of hedonism as in full-on, obsessive all-pleasure no holding back, type thing. Not "well I like gardening, so I'm going to quit my depressive but high-pay job so I can spend more time doing that". Which as others have mentioned, makes hedonism barely a thing, it's so general and retarded.

>>9092212
Hedonism is bad because I don't have the money or looks to properly participate in it

>>9093646
Men feel emotions deeper than women, it's just that women are disgusted at the sight of a non-robotic "sensitive" man.

Women have savage instincts and the preservation of art is dependent on them being controlled.

>>9092212
Without water you starve.
With some water you live.
With a lot of water you shower.
With too much water you drown.

Hedonism is fine until you become a victim of pleasure, which is why hedonism is considered disgusting in hindsight.

Incase you don't appreciate theory:
Aids, lung cancer, stds, rape, drug abuse, and greed are all examples of the fine line between showering and drowning. Pretty disgusting eh?

All of the above could be easily avoided, but for 'some' reason...

Tldr: dont do drugs, kids

Why doesn't anyone in this thread understand that hedonism is something inescapable to any living creature and therefore shouldn't ever be discussed. If you're alive you are acting in your own self-interest to maximize your happiness/pleasure/comfort and therefore you're hedonistic

>>9095049
Everyone acts in their own self-interest, that is true. But that can take way more forms than just 'happiness/pleasure/comfort'. A hedonist only seeks pleasure.

>>9095121
happiness and comfort are forms of pleasure

>>9095121
wait what i meant to reply is "thats not true"

>>9095125
You can define every positive experience as 'pleasure', but then the hedonist label becomes meaningless because all other life-style ideologies are synonym with hedonism.

>>9095132
okay you're right but now I'm confused because what I said was technically true in my opinion, so that means all life-style ideologies are a synonym?

>>9092212
I don't like playing these stupid language games, however this specific case warrants it:

what the hell is "hedonism" in the first place?

Any discussion on "hedonism" is about ideology and nothing more. It is always linked to moral propositions "do not enjoy too much". It is about controlling your mind: telling you how to act, telling you how to think.

I have no interest in mind control games, let those who are foolish enough to fall for them, to fall for them.

>>9095144
>so that means all life-style ideologies are a synonym?
No, but all life-style ideologies seek positive experiences, so by your definition they would all be sub-forms of hedonism. Your definition of hedonism is useless.

"A hedonist strives to maximize net pleasure (pleasure minus pain)." says wikipedia. Let's assume that's true.
Maximizing pleasure is a completely different concept, than the trying to achieve positive experiences. Most people who aren't hedonists differentiate between different positive experiences. Like maximizing your knowledge is the goal of some, but that's way harder to achieve than just pumping pleasure drugs in your body. Those people aren't hedonists, still they are acting in their own self-interest.

Would you guys label Epicurus as a hedonist ? I know some people argue that he's eudemonist yet not hedonist, since he claims that every pleasure should not be pursued. However he states clearly that everything that brings pleasure is good, even if you better not choose it. So, I don't see what's wrong with labeling Epicurus as a hedonist. And it also implies that it's still possible to discard several pleasures, while still being a hedonist. Amirite ?

>>9092212
Because it makes you go *BRAAPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFF*

>>9092212
You tend to burn out and end up a confused wreck who's expended all their resources too soon and is left with nothing.

The homeless count many "hedonists" amongst their ranks.

>>9094889
But it does imply that 2 is also seeking pleasure, just a more profound, longer lasting version of it. Since hedonism is
pleasure seeking by definition, that makes 2 a smarter hedonist than 1, but a hedonist nonetheless

I can't find girls to have sex 24/7
That's the problem

death grips

>>9092327
Try the red pill, art is degenerate and liberal.

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>>9092212

i want to sniff her buttcheeks

>>9095309
Try backpage bruh

>>9094986

I lost hahahahah

>>9092500
Wait, how did the sister become a cousin?

>>9095582
Through hedonism, my man.

>>9092212
I believe the difference between identifying someone as an hedonist or not stands in whether they rely on short or long term pleasure seeking, respectfully
And short term is bad because of how the brain handles pleasure

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>>9092294

God I want to have sex.

Someone, anyone please fuck me. My god look at that ass, I just want to live in it.

>>9096884
You're undesirable, specially with that attitude.

>>9092212
you'll never understand it anyway if you have to ask

>>9094901
I get what you're saying. As a philosophical position, it places personal pleasure above all other ideals. This is your compass for deciding what to do. And on the surface it is shit easy to say "I'm just going to do what I want".

In reality, actually disentangling your own desires from the wants and expectations of other people can be extremely difficult, especially after years of being raised a certain way to have certain ambitions. Plus, it can be extremely difficult to organise your life in a way that allows you to pursue the things you want, especially when those things are contradictory.

Take a look at the main simplistic example people have been saying here as the exemplar of hedonism: sex and drugs. You want a satisfying sex life AND you want to be able to do drugs when you want. How many of us are able to have a sex life devoid of emotional ties, and how do those ties cope under the pressure pressure of drug use? Or if you take the prostitution option, plus drugs, where is the money coming from to afford all this? From work, which might not fit into the hedonistic plan.

So MY biggest problem for hedonism is that it is actually not really possible in its purest form. You can chase pleasure, but there will always be a lot of other shit as well. You're also likely to have your desires change as you grow up, which then demands more introspection about what hedonism would look like for you at any given time.

Turns out maximising pleasure is a tricky game to play.

>>9092212
Try it for a while. It Fucks with your body and brain when you're trying to live in a constant state of pleasure. After a while it's no longer pleasurable.

>>9095132
>but then the hedonist label becomes meaningless because all other life-style ideologies are synonym with hedonism

I think the difference between hedonism and other life-style ideologies is that other ideologies show different ways to live your life and such, but hedonism by definition is just simply saying to live your life, because like he said hedonism is inherent to being alive, so there's not really any point in talking about it. Other lifestyle ideologies are not worthless because they actually talk about different choices you can make instead of just "seek pleasure" which is something you will be doing regardless of whether you consider yourself a hedonist.

So I'm going to out myself as a philosophy psued here but doesn't hedonism in the philosophical sense argue for maximizing the happiness of all -- and not just the self? Can any philo-fags chime in here and help clarify this for me?

>>9097851
Nah, that's more like utilitarianism.

>>9097246
This.
Syphilis is not very pleasurable.

>>9095365
>Human expression is degenerate and liberal
Kys yourself

>>9092500
Ironically the middle option here is clearly the best.

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>>9095039
>without water you starve

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>>9092230
>society couldn't function if everyone was a plumber therefore plumbers are bad

>>9092389
i don't know why these faggots attacked you instantly, but you are completely right and they have no actual way to respond besides with dumb memes

>>9098655

An offensiue knaue! Knouu'st thou not that this man vseth that VVorde in its right auncyente Saxon Sense, signifyinge an general Death? Thisse vsage, fitte to the particular Asperitie of his Sounde, is founde Approu'd in the manie Othere Languages of Germanick Extracksionne. Anye fitte Grammearian vvill telle thee, thatte it bee no right Correcksionne, to saye to an man, thatte hee starueth onlye by VVant of Alimente.

>>9092356
>>9098700
>'fireman' and 'plumber' are ideologies
You are this retarded

>>9093646
Women don't feel emotion, they just have retarded as hormones that literally gives them brain damage, causing them to be unstable and unable to think properly. I'm not joking, which is the sad part, my heart goes out to every person born a woman and every man too stupid to understand women.

Nothing.

>>9092500
are you trying to imply the cheapest option that provides sex isn't objectively the best?

>>9098851
not sure why this made me laugh out

>>9098851

>willfully misunderstanding the point
>not realizing that the notion that ideology should be ubiquitous is sophomoric and self-defeating under minimal scrutiny

You sure are.

>>9092212
it blinds you to reality

>>9092230
You are absurd.

No philosophy is tenable for everyone, and any philosophy will always implicitly engender it's own opposite.

For every cause there is a dialectically opposed one.

>>9095172
Epicurus seems to be more an adept of asceticism rather than hedonism, at least what people think hedonism is when they hear and use this word. Correct me if I am wrong, but one of his ideas is basically pleasure is just the right amount of what is needed. Just right amount of food to not feel hungry or even not to starve, just the right amount of sleep etc. So, it's more about absence of pain, and for absence of pain not much of anything really is needed, only a moderate amount.

>>9092212
Man this shit is why I'm glad I go to LA Fitness.

>>9092384
Doesn't this just lead to long-term hedonism? Embracing some pain so that one can maximize pleasure overall?

>>9092409
t. nietzsche

Is not a tenable form of hedonism ultimately the goal of every philosophy? Self-fulfillment, being able to cope with life's problems, inner peace, true wisdom- all sides of the same die, named Happiness.

>>9101899
Virtue ethics and deontology don't see pleasure or happiness as the ultimate end.

>>9101909
Surely contentment, or pleasure, is derived from the pursuit of arete, from the support and betterment of society and the human race, from discovering one's place in Creation?

>>9101951
I think you're mixing correlation and goal

it doesnt matter if pleasure is derived, it's not about pleasure in that case

>>9095171


good luck calculating which actions are going to lead to a net positive sense of pleasure as opposed to burning yourself out and being a lazy drug addict

>>9101951
>>9101951
But the substantial question is the "why" is such and such a moral good/imperative? Sure, helping my community might be pleasurable, but even if it wasn't I might still do it because the community raised and protected me and I have a familial obligation to it (virtue ethics) or it'd abuse the very concept of a community or at least harm it, which isn't sustainable if everyone does so, making it illogical (deontology).

And please don't reply with "But all of those things are ultimately rooted in egoist pleasure, no?" the mother of all phil101 mistakes.

>>9102075
This makes sense, thank you.

>>9102098
No problem.

>>9102075
But all of those things are ultimately rooted in egoist pleasure, no?

>>9102157
Don't do this to me while I'm goin' through opiate withdrawal, anon...

(To say "everyone thing is ultimately rooted in egoist pleasure" is essentially question-begging, a tautology, and as such is missing the substantive question and can be sidestepped entirely ["okay, so there's a link between the moral good and pleasure, so what?"]).

>>9092212
It leads to absolutely nothing besides your on primal enjoyment. It's weak and short sighted.

>>9102189
>>9102157
This is, of course, ignoring the possible intuitive examples countering egoism---e.g. soldier jumping on the grenade.

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>>9092212
Read Phaedo and you won't ask such questions.

>>9102075
>Sure, helping my community
What determines how much you should help? And isnt that generally what taxes are?

>>9102189
>(To say "everyone thing is ultimately rooted in egoist pleasure" is essentially question-begging, a tautology, and as such is missing the substantive question and can be sidestepped entirely ["okay, so there's a link between the moral good and pleasure, so what?"]).
My "thing, difficulty", is if... everything was taken care of, everything was running smoothy, than one would not need to 'ultimately unnecessarily' 'do something like your example', and isnt ultimately, 'everything running smoothly', what is wanted? In terms of 'moral' questions at all?

>>9092212
how is exercise and diet hedonism but reading books all day isn't?

>>9103551
>What determines how much you should help?

In a philosophical sense? Depends on your moral and political outlook.

>And isnt that generally what taxes are?

Well sure, but not everyone pays out of fear of punitive responses. Perhaps out of obligation/duty or community/virtuousness.

>>9103554
Are you on acid or a hefty amount of benzos?

There's no intrinsic value to pleasure. Pleasure also isn't satisfying, and most pleasure-seekers capable of any sort of introspection go through a crisis at some point.
>>9092230
>society determines truth
Fuck off.

>>9095582
When he married his aunt because he's a disgusting hedonist.

>State I thought that Muhammad Ali was morally wrong for dodging the draft
>Get called a Nationalist
>"I mean I am proud of our nations history and I think we're luckily to be born and raised in the US."
>"Oh my god!" German foreign exchange girl exclaims "DON'T YOU KNOW HITLER WAS A NATIONALIST!"
>Get called a Nazi

This was a couple years ago but given recent events I can't help but wonder why Nationalism is such a taboo thing, I mean purely in its corrupted form, literally all it means is a strong sense of belonging, patriotism, and pride in ones nation and a belief that your nation should remain independent from control of other nations.

I think other nations should be independent and sovereign too. Not from being gifted sovereignty by some greater power but by resisting and earning independence if they can take it. You can't really be an allied nation if your'e beholden to your allies, your just a puppet at that point. In order to be real allies the nations need to be relatively independent of eachother so that the brotherhood is mutual and respectful.

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>>9092212

you need girls to be a hedonist. if you're an incel there is no point in being a hedonist

also i have no idea what a hedonist is.

>pleasure is good therefore indulge in pleasure

isn't this what hedonism is? don't most people do this?

>>9103617
Because nationalism is the tool that bankers use to generate wars, that dominator use to retain power.

If you haven't yet, read 1984.

>>9103624
I would fuck the fetal alcohol syndrome out of her face.

>>9103617
I think the idea is strong independence -> superiority -> seeing Others as inferiors that can be oppressed, exploited, and ultimately genocided.

As a nationalist, this concept isn't wholly without merit, see essays on Kant's Enlightenment ideas enabling colonialism because those savages lacked the capacity for the 'intellect' Kant's idea of 'Man' required.

>>9103625
You don't need to read 1984, like I've said I've read Plutarchs discussion of Caesar and other writings from Rome and its civil wars. I'm more questioning the more modern idea that whenever wars are started in this way its somehow just "bankers tricking people into war". I'm not even trying to be edgy, being a professional soldier for your nation or for a general/politician etc is a profession as old as governments themselves. All the sudden its become some big taboo to take land and resources for your nation when just some hundred years ago we'd be casting statues and singing songs of our nations heroes.

Nowadays soldiers come home and they're looked at like their murderers and psychopaths that are barely human and the generals leading them are cobra commander evil villains. Is it seriously just some shift in like the 70's or 60's or was it dropping atomic bombs that changed everything?

I think my main issue with hedonism is mostly the practical aspects of it. Hedonism is very closely tied to risky, reckless, and irresponsible behavior that generally favors things that bring short term pleasure, but long term pain. The question is, is that real hedonism? I don't know.

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It's the dead end of nihilism.
Hedonism is the doctrine which holds that the good is whatever gives you pleasure and, therefore, pleasure is the standard of morality. Pleasure cannot be rationally quantifiable, and leads to everything being permissible, and if applied morally, only becomes utilitarian. Not only that, but it means that your morality is dictated by your feelings, your desires, rather than values. Happiness and pleasure are not mutually exclusives, but one does not necessarily leads to the other.

>>9092212

it's the bad kind of pre-kantian, uncritical reflection that is dead-ended as far as thinking goes. this last is my only real objection to anything anymore: that it hampers thinking.

>>9103651
Also sorry I should have explained the first part better because it sounds unrelated. What I meant by "I've read about Caesar and other history" is that people have been funneling youthful soldiers into war for thousands of years and today the reasons to be a soldier are very much the same as back then.

>You get to see the world
>Adventure
>Money
>Military Citizenship/Status
>Food

Like the horrors of war are definitely a thing but people wouldn't become professional soldiers if they're wasn't benefits to the whole deal. Granted that Romes Legions were sort of like private military thugs that had their loyalty bought with coin and the spoils of war and basically weren't responsible for their commanders allegiances.

When Pompey's camp was taken his legions just fell in line with Caesars and went on their way.

>>9092212
If you have to ask that question you should kill yourself

>>9103722

Hatred is a vice too, you hot head.

Cool your jets.

>>9092212
Hedonism is the cancer of the soul.

Pleasure is rare if you are poor. The rich are naturally hedonistic.

>>9092657
Well reasoned and succinct. Good work anon.

The logical extrapolation is that a society which becomes hedonistic will cease to remain a society.

It would cease to remain a civilization, at best, and become fodder for more organized nations (civilizations/societies).

>>9092741
Hedonism doesn't merely refer to the sex drive. It applies to all forms of sensory stimulation.

>>9094986
i lol'ed hard

>>9098787
love this reply

>>9095039
This is a good.

>>9095049
That is not what the term Hedonism refers to. It refers to an unrestrained pursuit of sensory stimuli which hold no value beyond the pleasure they produce for the participant.

This concept does not encompass all the affairs of a human life.

>>9095172
Historically speaking hedonism comes from minor socratic school of Aristippus of Cyrene. Epicurus derives his idea that achieving pleasure is the main purpose of life from Aristippus. But the main difference between epicurean and hedonistic thought is that hedonists see value only in so called by them "kinetic pleasure", that is one in which one participates, e.g. drinking or having sex. Epicurus opposes to kinetic pleasures with the notion of "static pleasures", which are pleasures coming from the abscence of pain. Static pleasures are more stable, easier to obtain and maintain, thus more important and of higher value. So Epicurus grounds his thought in hedonism, but goes beyond and against it.

>>9104347
Thank you. I was ignorant of this. This is useful information.

Do you know which work(s) contain this information and the surrounding dialogues?

>>9092212
You will never feel fulfilled or complete because of hedonistic adaptation, constantly chasing the next thing that makes you feel pleasure only to have the pleasure revived become less and less.
Essentially its the same as masturbating three times a day as compared to once every three days. Three times a day at some point your going to be looking at some disgusting filth just to feel pleasure again, This is going to make you feel bad, you feel bad, you look at even more disgusting filth to feel good again and so on.

>>9103663
Truth.

>>9104353
Epicurus' view of pleasure being the abscence of pain and the opposition of kinetic and static pleasures can be found in his Letter to Menoeceus.
Aristippus' thought is nicely summarized by Diogenes Laertios in 8th chapter of second book of his Lives and Opinions of Eminent Philosohpers. He, like Socrates, haven't left many writings. His philosophy is mainly written by his cyrenaic successors, such as Aristippus the Younger and such.

>>9104371
Thanks.

>>9103617
Because only OTHER people are allowed to be nationalists.

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Relying on temporal sensual pleasures will never lead to permanent satisfaction.

>>9092294
>fascist as a slur
You better pray/send metta/light a candle/hope/sacrifice a gender on your altar that we don't gain power 8 years from now, I'll be doing everything I can to gain ground so I can push for the mass genocide of all r-select freaks like you.

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>nothing at all

Everything

>>9092213
What's so good about God's will?

>>9097224
>hurr you cant understand

hello pseud

>>9105733
>>9103722

forgot to quote you too
>>9092212
i think OP picture for hedonism is bit misleading
ultimate hedonism for most of us here would be some fat NEET sloth playing videogames and jerking off 24/7, going outside his dwelling only when necessary
>>9103555
also this yea

>>9092405
Funny. I alway tell myself 'they're content, but they'll never be truly happy.'

>>9092212
Immediate pleasure feels good for some time, but on the long run you become an empty husk of a man, stoned, drunk and fat.
Reject decadence, embrace hardship.

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>>9105175
Kek, but you won't. You deeply insecure faggots have way more hope than you deserve. And the funniest thing is that even in some alternate dimension where any of your simplistic values became widespread, you would quickly realise that it doesn't stop the feeling of being swallowed up by the masses, and you would be just as inconsequential, pointless, and frustrated as you always have been.

>>9092212
it creates bad children. bad children become bad people, and bad people create bad societies

>>9101750
Basically yeah, but I think that the simple absence of pain or need is already a pleasure.
>>9104347
So, if we consider hedonism as a historical system, the epicurean idea of "static" or "catastematic" pleasure is anti-hedonist, right ?
Whereas, if we considered hedonism from a more abstract point of view, as any system that values pleasure in general, then it would be acceptable to consider Epicurus a hedonist.
Now I agree that the first, historical meaning of hedonism is probably the more legit one.
Do hedonists before Epicurus talk about "kinetic" pleasure, pleasure being a movement (not a state) ?

Also, since you seem to know Epicurus quite well, there's something that seems still uncertain to me after reading several scholars. Eating something rare and very good can be a desire (natural yet not necessary). When you do it, does it bring a kinetic pleasure ? On the one hand, no, since you didn't have any need for it (you're not moving towards absence of pain, since there's no pain). But on the other hand, I don't think it could bring "static" pleasure, since you already had static pleasure before eating the rare and good food.

>>9106235
>Hedonism is bad, m'kay?

>he's not a nihilistic hedonist
>he concerns himself with society
>he concerns himself with the future of humanity
>he concerns himself with "reality"
>he thinks he matters as an outlier
>he entertains his mind with abstractions of moral ideology and avoids pleasures of the material world while he's still conscious
stay an incel

>>9107087
selfish prick

>>9105730
Go against it and He'll tell you. Pain is not evil, it is condensed knowledge.

That's why you learn about risks associated with free roaming as a child. You stumble, fall or drop.

>>9107113
Is that what you think? Oh well. I'll keep attempting to enjoy myself in this pointless existence while I still can. I'm sure "finding yourself" by identifying with political and metaphysical ideology will offer great respite in the inevitable end for you, I've already done my part in that. I'd rather let the neurons fire off into the pleasure centers from now until I'm rotting in the ground. I'll be fucking until I've exulcerated all of my perinee.

>>9107138
It's not pointless if you already have found a purpose. Enjoying life, it is.

>>9107087
How's middle school going so far, champ?

>>9107246
You tell me.

>>9092287
why do you have to be all dogmatic about it? because someone wrote it like that some time ago? how about maximising pleasure with measure and art. it's not rocket science.

>>9092421
This was the gayest fucking movie. What a pile of shit.

>>9103562
there's no intrinsic value to anything. and lmfao, pleasure isn't satisfying? to say that pleasure does not satisfy, to say that pleasure does not please, is a laughable contradiction

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>>9092212
>What's so bad about being possessed?

>>9092384
This is true to an extent. A lazy person (i.e., NEET) avoids all suffering at any cost. Even something as simple as doing chores takes a huge amount of mental and physical effort for them.

>>9106230
>You deeply insecure faggots have way more hope than you deserve. And the funniest thing is that even in some alternate dimension where any of your simplistic values became widespread, you would quickly realise that it doesn't stop the feeling of being swallowed up by the masses, and you would be just as inconsequential, pointless, and frustrated as you always have been.

Projecting this hard should not even be possible.

>>9092340
>Ironic
That wasn't meant to be an argument, it was meant to point out that saying fascist isn't an argument.