/lit/, advice on political handbooks on pragmatism/realism? I'm

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are you trying to imitate past leaders or what? try educating yourself on the contemporary political situation by reading some history of politics and economics and the theories that pertain to them.

>>9065971
>political scene here

don't

>>9065971
Statesman doesn't really offer pragmatic suggestions.

Might want to check out machiavelli's discourses, which are like the prince but more thorough and 5x the content. That's a decent start for political philosophy, but you'll need to know modern history/politics if you're going to be able to apply anything you learn.

Also may want to study some classical rhetoric

my nama jeff

>>9065990
I'm trying to understand how a politically pragmatic mind works. I'm reading a bit on rhetoric as well. I just want to understand what sort of thing I'm getting into before I actually dip my feet.

I've read a lot of modern political philosophy, but not too much before The Prince.

Anything to do with rhetoric, however, would be great to point out to me.

Whatever it takes /lit/

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>>9065971
or "So Maybe it Wasnt the End of History After All"

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>>9065990
>pragmatism/realism
>the left

k broski

>>9066022
stop being allergic to the word "left" you faggot. Just because you read and understand leftist theories doesn't mean you have to fucking believe them. Only an idiot with no confidence in his views would recoil at the thought of reading something that he disagrees with. If anything, you should revel in it because it would only strengthen your arguments, by understanding what you disagree with better.

>>9066030
I've read that garbage. Communism relies on the state forcing an unrealistic unsustainable model in the long term. That chart is the opposite of what OP is asking for. Fucking game of thrones is more appropriate.

>>9065990
I think what OP is asking for is texts that reflect the practices of political agents adherent to the ruling ideology

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>>9066038
>Communism relies on the state forcing an unrealistic unsustainable model in the long term

So just like capitalism?

>>9065971
Check out this list:

http://archive.is/Ug1MU

(archive is to get around the paywall)

>>9066050
Capitalism is organic. See black markets in the "great" 70s in the soviet union, and the nascent growth of small businesses in south vietnam and cuba the second unnatural restrictions are eased.

>>9066038
>>9066054
Please just stop. I'm conservative but you're embarrassing yourself.

>>9066090
Yeah, the natural switch to a market/consumer society the second state controls are lifted in every post-communist state isn't obvious, and is wrong. You are the embarrassment. I can't wait to vacation in cuba during neo-NEP.

>>9066054
>Markets are capitalism

>>9065990
To be fair I'm fairly sure that every modern world leader has read The Prince and older political thinkers such as Caesar and Sun Tzu.

>tfw there's probably a secret manual that every POTUS has to read and memorize
>tfw it won't be released in your lifetime

At least I can read secret texts written for Soviet bureaucrats.

>>9066110
Yes, because tanks bombarding the russian parliament and soldiers shooting at civilians during the constitutional crisis is totally organic and natural

Tell me more about how private ownership is totally natural and happened since the dawn of man

>>9066110
It's almost like the Marxist dialectic is predicated on specific conditions and festering immanent contradictions within capitalism, as opposed to every forced 'communist' state attempted so far. Is this the part where you try and convince me capitalism is actually ahistorical, and all economies since the dawn of man have been a variation of it? kek

>>9066002
thread

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>>9066054
There can be non-capitalistic markets.

Capitalism concentrates wealth in the hands of those who can use it to produce more wealth but that also requires more space, people, material, etc. which is unsustainable.

That's why when growth slows or stops everything turns to shit and we call it a "depression"

Capitalism is unsustainable and if you read some non-mongoloid right wing thinkers you'd see how anti-capitalism can sit comfortably on the right wing.

>>9066022
this.

Leviathan, Social Contract theory stuff, Machiavelli??

I'm interested in similar material OP

/lit/ what are some good books for rhetoric?

>>9065971
Rules for Radicals by Alinsky

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>>9069520

>>9069520
>/lit/ what are some good books for rhetoric?
Read the Romans

read everything Rodert Caro wrote about Johnson and then try to emulate him

>>9069626
>Not starting with the Greeks

>>9069626
Specifically, read Cicero's "On the Ideal Orator."

>>9066005
This>>9066008
Totally wrap yourself up in Machiavelli for a bit, then look to understanding historical decisions through this lense. They say Kissinger always had a personally annotated edition of Prince and other writings.