Is this right wing christian propaganda?

>>8997543
You want it to be, don't you? Are you 'redpilled'?

>>8997556
No, Im apolitical. Im just curious

>apolitical
>asks a highly political question
gr8 b8 m8

>>8997543
right wing christian propaganda is Mein Kampf, pic related is literature

If that's what you think, that's the question you ask, then literature is completely lost on you.

Please grow up.

Yes it is OP

>atheism will make you kill people XD
>socialism is le evil XD
Dostoyevsky was staunchly opposed to materialism and most likely wanted some sort of tradionalist christian utopia. Baiscally he was a hack

>>8997609
The main villain of the book is literally a rational egoist socialist while a orthodox christian christ figure saves Raskonikolv from his atheism. If thats not propaganda I dont known what is.

>>8997633
well maybe he tried to warn of the horrors of socialism and atheism that Russia got to know all too well during the godless soviet era prove me wrong bitch

>>8997655
>implying Lenin wasnt Russias best leader
>implying the horrors of the ussr were caused by atheism and socialism instead of Stalins dictatorship

>>8997666
go away commie

>>8997714
Wow great argumentation. /pol/ would be proud

>>8997543
You're misusing the word propaganda.

In the off-chance that you aren't and actually understand the implications of using the word propaganda to describe Crime and Punishment, your choice would imply you're a paranoid, conspiracy nut.

In the latter case, you should spend less time browsing the YouTube channels of the "red-pilled."

>>8997609
You don't understand the word hack.

>inb4 you come back with a freshly Googled definition.

Yes. Read Death Note instead.

>>8997719
Lenin wasn't a good leader in any way whatsoever. This is a well established fact, known to anyone who's not completely ignorant of Russian and Soviet history and is not denied even by the most fanatical commie-pensioners in Russia. Here, I fed you. Now go away with your retarded bait.

>>8997633
As a villainous atheist egoist, making stories that reinforce your world view into propaganda, it's almost inevitable in the act of making a story.

As dangerous? Arguably, not it's not presented as nonfiction or presented explicitly as an argument first (Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas).

>>8997666
Implying nothing, history showed it best. As Dosto said, if god does not exist then everything is permitted. Atheism made Stalin possible

>an idea opposed to my own has been presented
>must be propaganda
this thread is stupid

>>8997745
Death Note is not comparable to Dostoevsky.

There is a reason it was serialized in Jump, a children's periodical.

File: MTE4MDAzNDEwNTU1MDc4MTU4.jpg (96KB, 1200x1200px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 1200x1200px

>>8997772
You realize more dictatorships and more atrocities have occured because of religion than atheism right?

>>8997772
Just keep focusing on the paint job instead of the painters, that'll help.

>"The Bolshevik Revolution," declared a leading American Jewish community paper in 1920, "was largely the product of Jewish thinking, Jewish discontent, Jewish effort to reconstruct."
>American Hebrew (New York), Sept. 1920. Quoted in: Nathan Glazer and Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Beyond the Melting Pot (Cambridge, Mass.: 1963), p. 268.
Looks like Judaism made Stalin possibly, if only they were removed for some atheists.

>>8997789
It's much better. Has a much more intelligent, proactive protagonist and far less moralfaggotry.

>>8997792
Nonsense.

Those men were perverters of religion, who twist doctrine to suit their desires, and would have just as easily fabricated an atheistic justification for their evils, would that have been more effective.

Granted, it does depend on the doctrine. No matter how you slice it, we are dealing with problems of perverse ideology.

>>8997822
>book about moralfaggotry is full of moralfaggotry
>nicholascage.jpeg

>>8997830
So then atrocities are commited despite religion/ atheism? Doesnt that contradict the earlier point that the horrors of the USSR were commited because of atheism

>>8997822
Again, it is a children's book.

The themes are common, and while the presentation and artwork are uncommonly excellent, the material is not at the level of a masterpiece of literature.

Also, contrary to what you may think, Death Note's ONLY themes revolve around the idea of what is moral or right. This is clearly expressed by the protagonist's name - written in gairaigo as ライト, a name which is impossible for the reader to know whether the intentional translation is "Light," or "Right," and this is the point.

Still, as I've implied, the existentialist themes present in Death Note are rudimentary, common, and simplistic in their presentation relative to Crime and Punishment.

>>8997847
Yes, I'd say it would.

I do not believe the problems were committed due to atheism, although, as someone has pointed out, with no religious morality connected to the divine it becomes far easier to justify any atrocity - you merely need a pragmatic rationalization, or even, an emotional one depending on the involved parties.

With that said, the true root of evil is in humanity itself, and this is why these atrocities can spring up out of any religion, any people group, and any ideology.

The 'horrors of the USSR' point wasn't mine, however. The post to which you just replied was my first in this line of conversation.

>>8997832
>moralfag book
It's heavy handed shit.
>>8997852
Death Note isn't moralfag trash. Questioning what is moral and right is just to add spice. The protagonist has an grand objective and has a willingness to kill, he fights the law, duels with an awesomehe has awesome plans, he's winning, then he loses.

Let's see C&P. Protagonist is a pussy, kills two people pointlessly, cries and moans and lays in bed sick for ages, melodramatic characters, boring conversations, surprise cheesy Christfag ending. I swear people only like it because they think they're supposed to.

>>8997896
*duels with an awesome detective

>>8997896

Study artistic analysis further and you'll realize your views on Death Note are sorely mistaken.

The 'grand objective,' as you put it, is merely a common shonen manga device. This is what drives the story, and is present in nearly every popular shonen manga since Toriyama produced Dragon Ball.

You're looking at a plot device as though it were a theme.

The themes of the work are as follows:

>How can man distinguish between Right and Wrong?
>End v. Means
>Absolute power and the process by which it may corrupt one's character.
>What is God?
>Can man ever be akin to God?
>What is Justice? (I'd also like to point out that when you say, "he fights the law," what we're really seeing is Law v. Law which is really a reflection of the themes What is Justice, End v. Means, and Right v. Wrong)
>etc., etc.,...

All of these themes, and any which you could pull out of the manga, are basic existentialist conundrums, and, next to these themes, the story line of Genius v. Genius becomes merely a tool with which to explore the themes of the work. This is how all art functions - literature, poetry, film, and even manga.

I respect your personal attachment to the story, but artistic analysis is not emotional, it is rational.

>apolitical

>>8997792
>>8997814
Atheism never worked for a society.
Religious societies failed only when religions in it collided. That's why multiculturalism doesn't work.
Secularism destroys a society from the inside, whilst Hitler's christian Germany was the most united society that ever existed

File: Zizek-Trash-2.gif (852KB, 350x214px) Image search: [Google]

852KB, 350x214px

>>8998054

>>8998107
good thing he's so woke

>>8997543
what kind of question is that? it's a book. literature.

>>8997814
There were only 300-900 Jews in the communist party out of 5 million Jews in Russia...

Really makes your noggin boggin

>>8997964
Dude, the mangaka flat out said he had no particular themes in mind. When pressed, he said "YOLO, cherish life" and "no one person has a right to judge others".

Death Note is fun and engaging first and foremost. C&P is primarily Christian propaganda and super boring.

>>8998152
Whether he believed he did or not, the work speaks for itself - as all works do. Likewise, all works have themes. Literally every one of every kind - there may be some exceptions in especially abstract art, but I've yet to see one.

He may have thought he had no themes in mind, but the direction he chose to progress the work formed themes of its own accord - if your claim is accurate.

There are many artists whose subconscious bleeds out through the work, or whose work takes on the dominant themes of their place and time.

The themes contained in Death Note, more specifically, their presentation, is very Japanese. I would say, most noticeably, the ending (That is another discussion for another thread, however).

It is possible Ohba Tsugumi appropriated these perspectives without realizing from the culture in which he dwells and they simply found a way out via his artistic imagination.

Even still, Death Note is far too contrived for that to be believable.

>C&P is primarily Christian propaganda and super boring.

Your understanding of what constitutes propaganda is wanting, and boring is an opinion, not an analytical quantity.

Orthodox Slavs are (and this is coming from one) religious people, they have always considered religion as the pillar of society, it kept them grounded (in more ways than one) and as soon as they threw it away, atrocities happened. In spite of this (or because of it) we understand the importance of religion. Our commie past made us realize that. Liberal secularism isn't even a thing in our countries, that's a thing of the multicultural west that has yet to come to terms with religion (and it will, because of the intruder religion). That's why Russia would never have a migrant problem. didn't mean to sound political

>>8998282
was meant for
>>8997847

>>8998247
I should add one more thing for you >>8998152

If Ohba had no clear themes in mind, yet produced a work with very clear and common themes, it becomes all the more clear he is not on Dostoevsky's level.

Expression without intention is fine for performance art, painting, and even modern sculpture perhaps, but it is also one of the factors that separates high from low art - and a genius from a hobbyist.

>>8997576
>Hitler
>Christian
Come on now.

>>8997576
Mein Kampf is not Christian literature.

Christ literally said, "As you've done to the least of these, my brethren, you've done to me."

Also, when asked what is the greatest commandment, he replied, "To love the Lord your God with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. And this I would add, 'to love your enemies.' "

Killing Christ's genetic relatives by the millions isn't at all in keeping with these commands, and the literature which fueled these Antisemitic ideologies is, likewise, ungodly.

(The quotes may not be exact, as they are from memory, but my memory is usually very good, praise God.)

>>8998841
It's not Christian literature, but he did make several appeals to the Christian God and used the preexisting antisemitism caused by the Christian belief that the Jews killed Jesus.

>>9000325
It sure as fuck wasn't pilate who killed him

>>8997543

Yes

>>8997788

pretty representative of todays climate i must say

>>8997543
And Balzac was monarchist propaganda, and Wyndham Lewis was an outright fascist who wrote books about hating the common man, but that ideological distance from the reality of their times (and does anyone not have that?) allows you to sense that period more intensely. And sometimes an extreme outlook is the only way to access the most interesting aesthetic experiences - see Fredric Jameson's book on Lewis for a better explanation of this.

>>8998282
>Liberal secularism isn't even a thing in our countries
Things basement dwellers who have never been outside say for 1000.