>tfw you realize how rewarding non-fiction is

>>8992408
What book was it for you?

Not OP but Addiction by Design: Machine Gambling in Las Vegas

Holy fuck, what a brilliantly researched and written book. I think a major turnoff for non-fiction (not counting philosophy) was pop-phil or pop-sci-- this was written like a dry, academic essay, but the information was absolutely fascinating. I read it so closely and so enjoyably that I was able to remember almost the majority of the book since I had read it (2 years ago).

I actually want more like it.

>>8992408
Consider yourself redpilled.

You guys need to read The Information:A History, A Theory, A Flood as soon as possible.

>>8992408
>there are people that still read fiction

non-fiction is for a certain type of person i really don't care to be or wish to know

fiction is a fucking waste of time

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my goal for 2017 is to read more non-fiction. read some freud, jung, and koestler recently and found that quite rewarding. want to delve deeper into philosophy so i'll start with le greeks and read some plato and aristotle. i'd also like to check out some essay collections, maybe montaigne or didion. plus i'm interested in some wacky occult type stuff so maybe pic related.

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>>8996256

>>8996256

non-fiction is downstream from fiction.

>>8996323
>>8996325
i will water the flowers on your graves with my piss

I read mostly non-fiction.

Reality is way crazier and stranger than any fiction is, there's no doubt about that.

Fiction is cool and all, just prefer non-fiction at this point in my gay ass life.

>>8996336
what kinda non-fiction ?

>>8996344
anything, mostly history of wars.

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>>8993890
It wasn't a specific book but a bunch of essays and philosophy that were on my backlog. It really btfos fiction when you can get from a 30~ essay what you can't from a 300~ page book because the author just couldn't be direct and thought describing the furniture was a valid critique of capitalism or some such; as Wilde once said "half their strength has been wasted in friction."

So fuck all of you with your academic aesthetic bullshit. The medium is not the message. The only reason why you're an "artist" is because your ideas are weak.

>>8996354
care to rec any good ones ?

>>8994516
>>8996247
>>8996256
all three of you should drink hemlock

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>>8992408
>tfw you have always appreciated non-fiction and fiction equally and you wonder what is going on inside of the minds of these plebs like OP

I've gone full circle once again and after years and years of non-fiction I have once again picked up some fiction books. Non-fiction I read for practical purposes, in fiction you can simply indulge, although I find that it also helps develop your emotional intelligence and poetic sensibility of life, which is rewarding in and of itself

>>8996369

I dunno, studying any war is fascinating. For one, they're never fought for the reasons that everyone commonly thinks they were, and the winners were never as good as they said they were afterwards. WW2 is pretty fascinating, as that what everyone considers to be a total good vs evil war, but it was hardly that. More like a well-kinda-evil-but-not-THAT-bad vs evil war, which is generally what most wars come down to.

>>8996367

Sounds like the sort of argument someone who just reads the Wikipedia pages of books might make.

There's more to appreciate in literature than the ideas you intuit the writer intends to portray. It's better for your spirit to appreciate both art form's strengths.

>>8996486
>There's more to appreciate in literature than the ideas you intuit the writer intends to portray.
Such as?

wait until you guys realize how rewarding it is to not read and just shitpost all day like it's my job

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>>8996382
I do like fiction Anon. It's just that most "highbrow" fiction /lit/ recommends me is too concerned with language gymnastics and referencing other things.

Just ask yourself, what's the part most people care about in Blood Meridian: is it the billion minute facts McCarthy hid in imagined landscapes, or the one character that expressed the world plainly? Why does everyone still love Shakespeare but nobody wants to get near Finnegans Wake? These "artists" don't fucking understand language at all. They thrive in academia because their priorities are completely removed from the rest of society. They don't want to discuss, communicate, represent or point out anything; what they want is to be told they're like musicians and painters--they are traitors to their own craft. Prose is not fucking poetry. Get this shit through your heads already.

Now this isn't to say composition has no place. Hell, composition for its own sake isn't bad of itself. The issue starts when you're trying to make everything the prettiest thing possible. You end up with an undefined mass of lyricism. This isn't how people communicate. There's nothing admirable about needing a team of scientists to decipher your shit. By doing that you're only fostering the same structure that makes lowbrow fiction so terrible--your creation of "art" is what creates a market for "art". Whatever profound things you believe you have to share have only served as a carrot to entrap your readers--you've only made them escape life further, not meet it. You're the Demiurge, not God.

By refusing to put up a honest show you have robbed your readers of the satisfaction of plainly using their time; you didn't even have the decency to let them get into deeper readings out of their own volition. What's worse, you have alienated them further by making them "work" for it, which means they'll have this aura of asceticism around them, and now they really will feel their time is wasted because there's only two other people on the planet besides them that understand you (if you haven't opted for the ambiguity shit, in which case nobody understands you). Babel indeed.

/mad

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>>8996531
can fucking confirm

>>8996509

The craft itself

>>8994513
Seems good lad, adding it to my to read list

>>8996778
And how do you go about appreciating the craft? Do you not do it by intuiting what idea of the craft the writer had?

>>8996821

That's a part of it, but there is also the way by which it is conveyed. This includes the prose itself, the writers control of metaphors, and the characterization.

The way you're focusing you might as well just buy old editions of college textbooks and textbooks alone.

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>>8993890

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I'll post a few favorites from my collection.

1/3

>>8996837
>This includes the prose itself, the writers control of metaphors, and the characterization.
And how do you judge that? I think you must either compare it to other works, or judge it based on how well it fits its content. I'm asking honestly, is there anything beside those two options? I have to choose the second, if there isn't; the first feels like it leads into inbred one-upmanship.

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2/3

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>>8996644
You should read this. It's very good. Bloom talks more about reading as tool for self development.

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I have lots more but those are my most oft-read. I have a whole bookshelf of WW1-WW2 literature and love to read about Churchill. These are fun though.

>>8996531
>>8996659
I do what I want, and right now I want to read. Will I regret it in the future? Sure. But at least I can regret it while having read all the classics.

>>8996894
Will do. I'd been thinking about reading a book of this type and giving Bloom a through second chance after he gave me a bad first impression.

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>>8996922
>Will I regret it in the future? Sure.
Atta boy.

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Reading this right now, really interesting

>>8996882

That's up to you, but I prefer a mix of the latter as well as my own naturally occurring appreciation of the book. This goes for non-fiction as well as fiction.

>>8996894
Do you have this in ebook format? I've been looking for it for a while on bookz and different torrent sites but couldn't find it.

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Does anyone have anything good on the beginnings of the industrial revolution? I was thinking about what jind of conditions were needed for it to happen and found them difficult to asses because, unlike something like agriculture or writing, there's one been one instance of it.

Help?

>>8996967
Nope. I also looked in the usual places, but I just ended up buying it. And having read it all, it's worth it. I will refer back to it often. I got it for $12 CAD on bookdepository.

One thing I want to clarify about the book. The title is a little bit misleading. The majority of the book is Bloom talking about important novels, poems, and short stories. The best writers are discussed. Essentially he says why these are important works and why these authors are worth reading. It's very good.

>>8997018
>The title is a little bit misleading. The majority of the book is Bloom talking about important novels, poems, and short stories. The best writers are discussed. Essentially he says why these are important works and why these authors are worth reading. It's very good.

So it's the same as the Western Canon? I've read that and it seems awfully similar.

>guys I read a book about something true, I'm so enlightened now
This might be the worst thread in /lit/ history.

>>8997028
I haven't read The Western Canon, so I can't really say. I am thinking of picking it up though.

You can read the table of contents and a sample of How to Read and Why here:

https://www.harpercollins.co.uk/9781841150390/how-to-read-and-why

>>8997048
I sincerely doubt that.

>>8997057

>>8996247
>>8994080
>>8993910

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>>8996914
You should read Churchill's biography (apologetic) of Marlborough, its fantastic

Also pic related.

>>8997048
I agree with the thread part, not the blanket condemnation of non-fiction

>>8997048
Truth has nothing to do with it.

>>8996914
These all look like fun reads.

>>8997116
I put it on the list, thanks.

>>8993890
The Complete Essays of Michel de Montaigne

>>8996247
i feel that way about fiction when kino films and tv shows exist.

When did you realised non fiction is useless and only lets you know a few boring details you didn't know before so much enlightment and started only reading fiction written with style and beauty wich can provide you emotions, the essence of life, and not some random knowledge?

I went through a long, multi-year phase of only reading non-fiction. I abhorred fiction, thought it was a waste of and of course the whole lines of thought like: "truth is stranger than fiction, there is more to reality than all dreamed up in your yada yada".

However I had some really strange sort of semi-religious experiences that made me reevaluate my aversion, and led me to conclude I wasn't thinking very clearly about the distinction between fiction and non-fiction.

I realized that human imagination is a real feature of the world, and necessarily precedes so much of our non-fiction innovation and insight. I began to view reading fiction and appreciating the other arts as part of a larger study of the real phenomenon of human creativity, imagination, and the mind in general.

I still read read a majority of non-fiction but do regularly include fiction titles now and I feel far more more enriched for doing so. I don't think you can have a truly well-rounded study of the human animal without also studying and enjoying fiction.

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>>9000094
>Having to get your emotions and sense of reality from a book.
Get a life you junkie.

>>8993890
The Story of Art by Gombrich or Pensar la Ciencia by Koyre

>>8996894
>reading as tool for self development.
fucking self-help shit lmao

>>9000852
>I don't think you can have a truly well-rounded study of the human animal without also studying and enjoying fiction.
Why do you want to "study" people? What are we, butterflies?

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>>9000852
Good post

>>9000885
>being satisfied by what life gives you and not wanting to explore the richness art has to offer

>>9001178
Bloom says reading literature may actually be the only real self-help, if that's what you are looking for. Is there something wrong with that?

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>>9000852
>I realized that human imagination is a real feature of the world, and necessarily precedes so much of our non-fiction innovation and insight.

>>8996861
damn son
count me jelly

>>9001812
>Being existentially dependent on either fiction or fact.
Literally meme'd to death.

>>8996987
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29452523-a-culture-of-growth
still waiting for it to drop on libgen though. Heard some pretty good stuff about it. The writer seems to have written about the subject previously but this is apparently a more accessible take on it.

>>9000852
Lmao what an utter fag

what are some babby's first non fiction books?

>>9000094
You have never read good non-fiction. Do you think all of it is just about airplane motors or something?

>>8996958
Go for the tragedy of great power politics by john j mearsheimer after you're done with it. These two books complement each other extremely well.

>>9002637
Depends on what you're interested in:
economics: basic economic by Thomas sowell
International Politics: the tragedy of great power politics by john mearsheimer. Couple that one with prisoners of geography and you'll learn everything you need to know about the nature of global conflicts.
Psychology/evolution: the moral animal by Robert wright
History: I would recommend the Best and the Brightest. It's a gripping page turner that will make you lose all faith in government.
Political philosophy: for a new liberty by Murray ruthbard.

Reminder that non-fiction is just fiction with more real world references

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>>9001188
>he's never heard of Anthropology

>>9003366
>It's a gripping page turner
Would you say it's a tour de force?

>>9003366
>Thomas sowell

Isn't that the kook who thinks that the minimum wage should never be increased and that social welfare is akin to modern slavery?

If so, what is it about this book that is a good introduction to economics?

>>9003512
>If so, what is it about this book that is a good introduction to economics?

I guarantee you it's not a good introduction to economics because that poster also recommended Murray Rothbard (despite being so retarded as to not be able to spell his name) so they are clearly a slave to low tier ancap libertarian ideology.

>>9003431
It is. I hardly read anything by journalists, but that one and a few others are an exception. It can be a really depressing read actually.

>>9003512
I've been around the middle east and I've seen how governments there use welfare as a mean to enslave the population. The way in which they utilize it to drive their own narrow interests is just diabolic. I absolutely agree with the statement about welfare being a form of slavery.
And minimum wages are bad because they raise the price of labor above the level of productivity of most workers which forces employers to hire less people and to raise the prices of their products and services which in turn leads to the government opting for expensive welfare systems to alleviate the effects of the mass unemployment that it helped to create in the first place. The welfare state then drives investment away due to heavy taxation which in turn leads to more unemployment which in turn leads to more welfare which in turn leads to the government printing more money since there is no more tax money available which in turn leads to inflation and so on until you end up with a soviet union collapse scenario. Of course I'm extremely oversimplifying things here but this should help you understand why the same shawerma sandwich will cost you 7 dollars in america and 1.5 elsewhere.
Thomas sowell is a top scholar and his logic and rhetoric are really hard to refute. If you've read his work you obviously wouldn't have asked me to explain these things to you.

>>9003595
Oh look at the cute redpilled /pol/ack. Did you have fun at the church today kiddo?

>>8992408
nobody who reads philosophy has a budding sex life.

Bitches don't care how much you've learned from Kavanosky.

>>9003600
So we know the problem, what now? Do I move somewhere that isn't exploiting me for every hour I work and every shawarma sammich I request?

>>9003628
No you just stop voting for government regulations. That's it.

>>9003604
What about saying Murray Rothbard has a retarded ideology makes me a redpilled /pol/ack?

>>9003640
What a fucking spook, jesus christ. A bigger spook than jesus maybe. Just have faith in my one little catchphrase and you can think you're right about everything. Something goes wrong? Not enough faith in the catchphrase. Evidence doens't stack up? Poor interpretation of the catchphrase.

>>9003658
The fact that you've never read his work which is the trademark of all /pol/acks: judging things without looking into them.
>inb4 you're gonna Google him and pretend that you're an expert on classic libertarianism.

>>9003662
I don't know what you're on but hong Kong had a 2% unemployment rate that went up to 7% when the central Chinese government imposed itsregulationsn on the city. France had always been known for its legendary double digit unemployment rates due to the country's massive social security programs. The US government burns tons of surplus agrarian products each year because they the people won't buy the farmers overpriced products (which the fucking government had set the price of in the first place because muh poor hard working farmers). The US government used tax payer money created one of the world's most expensive irrigation programs in California just so state farmers could grow things that could be imported for the same price anyway.
So yeah fuck off. You won't realize how great capitalism is until you spend 3 hours waiting in line for subsidized diesel in a third world shit hole.

>>9003737
>You won't realize how great capitalism is until you spend 3 hours waiting in line for subsidized diesel in a third world shit hole.

Not the guy you were replying to, but what do you mean by this?