So this book allegedly sucks. What should I read instead?

>>8985069
Yeah, currently reading this on and off. Reads like a long essay, except charged with political correctness. Doesn't account for the fact that the inherent superiority of western culture is directly tied to its longevity. A culture that is 15,000 years old is guaranteed to be more intellectually stimulating and nurturing than a 5,000 year old culture.

>>8985087
But no culture is even 5000 years old

Why the West Rules--for Now: The Patterns of History, and What They Reveal About the Future

I just bought this book. Should be coming in the mail soon. I hear mixed things about it, but it's very popular.

>>8985148
I was referencing the book. It says Eurasian agriculture began approx. 15,000 years ago, my assumption being that this surely must be, if not cultural evolution, cultural birth.

>>8985069

Read an actual history book. I just read 'The Making of the Atomic Bomb' by Richard Rhodes. Really good book, I was surprised how deep into the science the book went and how early in time the book started to fully trace the development of ideas that led to the bomb.

>>8985087
But why did some cultures develop earlier and at a faster rate?

>>8985069
That's a solid book. Don't listen to this /history/autists thinking of their field as science like astronomy, where you can measure, prove or disprove things. History is exclusively matter of a narration, and having this in mind, Diamond's book constitutes a good read.

>>8985226
Read the book.

>>8985087
Australian aborigines are the oldest culture and one of the least developed.

>>8985229
I'm not going to waste my time on someone as intellectually dishonest as Diamond. It's pretty gross that he came up with a whole book to get around having to admit that some races are more intelligent.

When communities come together and develop something beyond what a single person can achieve it becomes civilization.

This is why celts, niggers, arabs, mongols, etc never developed. They are splinted societies which are more likely to kill each other than work together for a common goal. God damn animals.

>tfw bipartisan divide

I will read the book one day but I am not in any rush.

>>8985231
but thats different, they are an inferior race

Maps of Meaning by Jordan "Synthesis" B. Peterson

>>8985411
>Board that, along with /sci/, claims to represent intellectual elite
>Seriously believes in flawed taxonomy such as division by races

Back to >>>/pol/

Only thing I even found interesting about this book was him going into detail on how certain crops came to be cultivated by man.

Everything else is a long and painful drawing out of "IT'S ENVIROMENT!"

Awful.

>>8985069
"Why The West Rules-For Now" by Ian Morris

>>8985245
Well then how do you think you can refute his arguments without even knowing what he said? Read the book, any argument you can make against it without having done so is inherently fallacious.

>>8985427
you've never interacted with a full blooded Aboriginal

>>8985231
The book explains this convincingly, if somewhat drily.

>>8985436
Neither have you. You don't live in Australia.

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>>8985231
>>8985411
>>8985427
>>8985436
>>8985459
Actual Australian here. Check this shit out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_subincision
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBIubgsfK8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EjcA6tlFmE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEMiUEtpWd4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGNYeZzXSec

>>8985436
>>8985497
These cultures have not passed through process of rationalization(in Weber's sense). From this does not follow that it can be attributed to their "race".

>>8985497
>>8985503
Oh and btw cool videos.

>>8985154
racists get angry because he refuses to say "africa is a shithole because africans are subhuman".

>>8985509
But they genuinely are morally, ethically, spiritually, and existentially inferior to white men like me. They aren't equipped with the white man's rationality, logic, and adherence to science. Their simply inferior and hence subhuman.

>that's raysis!
And I'm fucking proud to be. Have the courage and honor and dignitity to embrace whiteness. We are the ones who make the world a better place. Not inferiors and women

>>8985519
I love when a superior human like you can't even write properly on a literature board.

>>8985528
Does that discredit anything? Do you not realize that the blood and honor of the white race, the inventors, the geniuses, the artists, the conquerors, etc. runs through my veins? Their spirit is within me, whereas your are filled to the brim with the goat-fucking and shit-flinging barbarism of subhumans.

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>>8985528

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>>8985231
can confirm

>>8985537
you've got as much in common with white achievements as anyone but if you don't think goat fuckign and shit lfinging was a part of white society then I suggest you hit up /his/.

>>8985459
yes I do
they speak incredibly slowly, frequently make grammatical errors, pause at random, lose their train of thought, change their tone for no reason etc
it's not culture that does that, it's lower cognitive ability

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>>8985427
>He doesn't know about race and IQ
>he doesn't know about the warrior gene

Wewwwwwwwwwwww

We're at least as different as various breeds of dogs.

>>8985552
this is a prime example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h_8X7yuilQ
like she's slipping in and out of consciousness

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>>8985427
someone needs to read the bell curve

>>8985554
>He doesn't know how crime data is collated
>Nor IQ data
>Nor how race is defined
>He doesn't know how genes work
>Or selective breeding

>>8985537
I'm white.

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>people defending Diamond in this thread
>no one mentioning Fukuyama
>no one mentioning Weber

>>8985069
Why Nations Fail, Political Power and Political Decay.

>>8985668
/his/ split did a lot of damage to this board's non-fic crew.

I think Fukuyama's thesis on success based off of correct behavior by elites and the nature of cultural backdrop behind the the state (tribalism and a pay-to-play culture vs. individualism) is a much worse argument than just saying inclusive institutions lead to a state with a populace that is invested in said state's success, like Daron Acemoğlu.

that argument even explains the black/white success divide that /pol/ rants about

>>8985721
Surprise you god dam weeb, /pol/ here.

IQ levels are the only reason. You burn the coal you pay the toll.

>>8985741
Whites should all be murdered and the planet should be occupied only by the Chinese.

>>8985741
Why is argentina is such a shit show compared to costa rica?

Why is Botswana such a thriving country when it is surrounded by shitholes?

Why did China and SE Asia have to deal with almost 2 centuries of total fuckery while Japan became a world power?

IQ is a pretty terrible indicator of success. I'm sure you would label the degenerate populations of Central Mexico, the Yucatan, and Peru "low IQ shitskins" (and indeed, they do poorly on standardized tests) when in fact only 10-11 generations ago the SAME PEOPLE had created massive cities with the best global farming systems on the planet at the time, institutions so excellent that the spanish were astonished?

/pol/ intellectual reduction-ism is poisonous.

>>8985601
>selective breeding

Are you implying blacks are more violent because they were bred to be?

All of the data ever collected shows that race is a better predictor for crime than income, population density, or even environment (Minnesota trans racial adoption study).

This is from a guy who lives in a top 5 US city in terms of pop. I'm not some redneck from the boonies.

Also,

>genes

You're going to have to explain that more because that point is the equivalent of just saying "well, ur dumb".

>>8985765
>Botswana
>thriving

Compared to what, Mongolia?

>>8985787
>Are you implying blacks are more violent because they were bred to be?

DOG BREEDS YOU FUCKING IDIOT!

>All of the data ever collected shows that race is a better predictor for crime than income

INCARCERATION RATES AREN'T CRIME RATES, IDIOT

>(Minnesota trans racial adoption study).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

GOOD FUCKING LORD THE REDDIT IS STRONG IN THIS ONE

>>8985793
>muh blacks only get arrested more because racism
>not because they commit more crimes overall, even at higher income brackets

Lol

>>8985795
Not an argument.

>>8985792
It has a stable government, low poverty, good foreign investment, and its transition from colony to country was peaceful. Compared to all its neighbors, it is thriving. If you wanted to go on Safari, it is by far the safest, best place for western tourists. So why has it had so many fewer problems then: Congo and its neighbors, Zimbabwe, Angola, South Africa, Mozambique? They are all "niggers". But since you dont seem to know anything about the country I guess you are just participating in reductionism again.

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>>8985796
Absolutely nothing you you've posted has been an argument so far. Just a lot of LOLOLOLOL REDDIT

>>8985795
Blacks are more apt to get arrested by cops and also have steeper sentences by judges, though.

It's not necessarily racism, but just harsher discretionary judgments.

>>8985800
None of what you have posted has been an argument. You set the precedent, retard.

>>8985799
Post stats compared to any country in western europe, US, or East Asia. I don't fucking believe you.

>>8985803
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQYob6dpTTk

>>8985799
>Literally one country out of dozens of 3rd world shitholes
>thinks this is significant

>>8985804
>IQ of Russia same as USA
>Russia has more murders per capita

Hmmm.

>>8985807
Not an argument.

>>8985803
>no u

Fucking lol you have nothing.

>>8985809
>Damage control

>>8985812
Not an argument.

>>8985815
>Not an argument.
>No u.
>No actually you haven't said an argument.
>HAHA YOU SAID NO U

Good one.

>>8985819
Not an argument.

>>8985821
>no u

Fucking lol you have nothing.

>>8985821
Not an argument.

>>8985810
>muh one country
>picks the worst european country to compare to the best African one

This is literally "b-b-but I have black friends and they're cool!", the argument.

>>8985825
Not an argument.

>>8985825
>Russia
>European

>me
>the same guy you were talking to

>IQ
>accurate measure of success

>you
>not retarded

>>8985802
I agree that it factors in but it doesn't fully explain why blacks commit 25x (FBI crime stats) more murders than whites.

Of course people are going to be more racist if this is the reality of things. One will beget the other.

>>8985825
>Picks one country out of the numerous examples listed
>'muh one country'

The brainlet at work.

>>8985834
Not an argument.

>>8985834
>Still conflating incarceration rates with crime rates

>>8985796
>>8985812
>>8985817
>>8985821
>>8985824
>>8985828
>>8985836

Not an argument.

>>8985838
You're insane if you think incarceration rates are inflated by that same factor.

We aren't talking about theft (more reasonable for impoverished people) or even assault here. It's fucking murder, dipshit.

False incarceration rates are by definition impossible to accurately determine. We can see how many murder convictions are handed down though and that number is astronomical compared for blacks compare to the rate for whites.

You're trying to imply that incarceration rates explain the massive disparity between those two numbers and that's absurd.

>>8985854
You're telling me there's a racial reason for why 5000 out of 40 million blacks committed murder?

>>8985069
The premise is to try to explian why eurasia and later europe countries evolved faster mainly with biology, but some people still try dismiss the his arguments with sociology, politics and other humanities

My main grudge againts his book is that he ignores India completely

>>8985809
It is significant. Looking at why out-liars are what they are is how you fix problems elsewhere.

>>8985804
"compared to western europe" is irrelevant, apples and oranges as they say. Comparing to its regional peers is much more important in figuring out how to fix the problems in those countries.

The wikipedia has tons of references, but you should read Fukuyama's book to understand better what he is speaking about. Also, you didnt touch on why argentina is such a shitshow, despite being much more white than costa rica.

>>8985884
It creates terror in society. Statistically the average person in Northeast Baltimore or Southside Chicago still isnt likely to be murdered but it's still an incredibly shitty place to live because the average person is afraid to interact with their community.

>>8985964
>it's still an incredibly shitty place to live because the average person is afraid to interact with their community

Its a shitty community because of white flight.

The reason Boston is so great is because its segregated by massive barriered roads. Mattapan shall never meet Brookline.

>>8985946
Compared to western Europe (I actually gave you a much wider range of countries to pick from that have their shit together) is irrelevant but comparing to Russia is? Christ, you're a rat.

>>8985979
>Compared to western Europe (I actually gave you a much wider range of countries to pick from that have their shit together) is irrelevant but comparing to Russia is? Christ, you're a rat.

What does Russia have to do with it? I think you are confusing anons. If you wanted to make an apt European comparison I would suggest the Baltic States and Belarus, where the inclusive/exclusive model works quite well in the post communist era.

>>8985970
So youre saying segregation works?

NYC is becoming livable again as the racial demographics of neighborhoods change.

Don't say this because of money either, that's already been covered. Poverty doesn't correlate with crime nearly as well as race does. The government also dumps shitloads of money into projects in those neighborhoods so that people can live for incredibly cheap in areas they would never be able to afford otherwise.

Even if you don't think it's purely racial you have to admit that certain populations of the US have a completely degenerate culture of violence and crime that keeps getting passed down. Whites are right to flee that.

>>8985982
On further thought, if you want to talk about why Russia has developed differently, I would suggest that the double whammy of the Mongol Yolk destroying the great princes, and elite plurality combined with the need for a massive central power as established by Ivan IV created the point of diversion, ie the beginnning of exclusive institutions vs. inclusive elite institutions to the west in Poland and Germany, and that only when Poland was place in Exclusive territory by partition did it begin to backslide into "other europe"

>>8986013
fuck, yoke. stupid autocorrect

>>8986013
Mongolia has yet to pay reparations for the damage it inflicted on the noble Russian KANGZ

>>8985148
I would say the societies that fostered the foundation of the original vedic religion is older than 5000 years and constitutes as a culture.

>>8986031
so gypsies?

>>8985509

Not really. Diamond was much like Marx to me. I mean that I agree with a lot of his points, but you can tell he is not seeing the bigger picture. Civilizations weren't built with just iron and horses.

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>>8985087
Toynbee, arguably one of our greatest historian, does not believe Western and Hellenistic civilization were the same, and therefore one cannot say that Western civilization is 15,000 years old. It's more like 1,500 years old, and has the Gecko-Roman civilization as one of its parent.

I find that this is a correct interpretation. I also don't think that the "superiority / inferiority" relation is the proper one to talk about different civilization.

>>8986035
He also doesnt subscribe to great man theory.

Alexander, Caeser, Napoleon, Hitler, Muhammed, Jesus, Genghis Khan. The genius of these individuals was not the result of geographic determinism, but individual ambition and creativity. Alexander should have been stopped by the Hindu Kush and Gedrosian desert, as with the Mongols pushing outside the Steppe regions. But they did and that negates a great deal of Jared's arguments.

>>8986044

Though I don't subscribe to the great man theory, I agree with your assessment. With that being said, I'll admit that I'm a racialist. I think Indo-Europeans are working with an edge over most other groups.

>>8986069
Indo Europeans are basically all of Northern India, most of the steppe, all of the middle east, europe except for basques and finns, and even the slavs have some admixture. And non indo europeans like Han Chinese are equal or not superior, as were they Mayan/Incan/Mississipian cultures. The rise and fall of the civs, and their success among their peers is not explained by racialism alone. Only really the Africans are well and truly fucked it seems. Maybe also Aboriginals.

>>8985554
>We're at least as different as various breeds of dogs.
lol no. dogs are much more genetically isolated by the fact that they are selectively bred by humans

>>8986078
hence why I said edge. I believe the success of civs probably comes about from dozens of different factors.

>>8985946
You seem like a thinker. I am monitoring your reasonable arguments.

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>>8985497
You forgot this masterpiece of traditional Australian Aboriginal culture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt0NcaxmGHo

>>8985802
>steeper sentences by judges

Well unfortunately that's not entirely true. They also get the least minimum sentencing. They get more harsher sentences for extreme crimes because that factor doesn't account from past crimes.

>>8985537
To ride the achievements of not even your own ancestors but just people of the same fucking color as you is pathetic, and I'm saying this as a straight white male. The people you're talking about, the intellectuals or empire builders, would have nothing but contempt for you if they read a post like yours on a quebecois cobbling forum from some fat autist.

You guys need to read some Joseph Campbell. Why do we assign values of 'advancement' to races who can't sustain themselves? Aboriginals live(d) in tune with their environment, unlike Westerners who over rely on agriculture and then their population grows to more than is manageable.

There's nothing advanced or clever about a civilisation that can't even realise the most basic facts about how to live in synch with the surounding ecosystem.

>>8986356

I read a lot of stuff about american colonialism. The funny thing was the Indians thought the colonists were mentally ill pricks, because they worked their ass off, and even with their advanced tech, they didn't do anywhere near as good as the injuns did at living. The indians had their land figured out, barely worked, and sat around enoying life while the colonists worked like crazy, got nowhere really, and were stressed out dickheads.

One fact that gets lost to history is indians were actually really fucking funny people, they kind of were /b/tards of their time, and had no problem making fun of and harassing the colonists. Kind of got a lot them killed too....but probably worth the lolz.

>>8986356
That hasn't always been the case. Population surges had more to do with sequences of wet and dry spells in central Asia rather than mismanagement.

Aboriginals living in sync with the environment is a truism. Of course they live in sync with the fucking environment. They wouldn't be there otherwise.

>>8985069
1491

>>8985497
I love how you used some old, probably deaf as hell people fucking up a live television performance with Anthony and the Johnsons as empirical evidence.

>>8986377
where have you read that? i'd like to check it too

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>>8985668
>nobody mentioning Oswald Fucking Spengler
I can't believe you people. I leave for a day and everything goes to shit.

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>>8985069
Try The Bell Curve by Charles Murray or The Blank Slate by Steven Pinker.

>>8985554
hahahaha this is what /pol/fags ACTUALLY believe

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What's worse lads:

Guns, Goys and Steel or A Cuckold's History of the United States?

>>8986674
ass

I found out that apparently progressives hate the theory in this book because it still posits that developed western civilizations are "better" than undeveloped civilizations. If this book triggers radical rightists and leftists then it must be doing something right

>>8985497
It's strange. The indigenous people here in Canada have a tendency to do weird shit like huff gasoline and drink mouthwash and too. What's the connection? It can't just be poverty. You don't see regular niggers doing that.

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>>8986772
The article in question is "Fuck Jared Diamond". The thesis is that it (GGaS) is an apologetic that supposes that geographical determinism allows for superior cultures to crush inferior cultures, which is damnable since western culture is inferior than the glorious cultures it supplanted.

This interpretation is typical post-structural crap, but has nothing to do with the actual validity of Diamonds thesis, which has, as the thread has noted, been thoroughly rebutted by Fukuyama and Acemoğlu without resorting to racialist spooks and boogeymen.

>>8986949
The argument is that first nations were ultimately subjugated by the British Crown and then by missionaries, and were subjected to racialist policies that disenfranchised them.

The group-wide trauma they incurred has reduced them as a people, just like African Americans, Mesoamerican super-civs, Russians, the american south after the US civil war, the Japanese after WW2, the welsh after the edwardian conquest, the poles after division etc.

Essentially, getting BTFO turns your culture into shit.

>>8987050

>since western culture is inferior than the glorious cultures it supplanted

kek

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>>8985069
Read it pusy. Alternatively you could read this

>>8985274
>celts never developed
>on a literature board
kekekek

>>8987065

Why don't ze Jews huff gas? Jewish people got pogrom'd and holocaust'd for millennia and they're doing pretty good these days.

>>8985497

>Penile-penile penetration
A subincized penis can be penetrated by another penis, provided the latter is sufficiently small. In some Australian cultures, one traditional practice involved the penetration of an elder's subincized penis by the unsubincized penis of a young boy who was usually under age 7. Some authors have theorized that this was the original purpose of subincision.

Damn abbos are /b/-tier.

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>>8987050

>which is damnable since western culture is inferior than the glorious cultures it supplanted.

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>>8985228

This. It is a very good book, treat it like an intro that then allows you dive deeper into specifics such as anthro, human geography, climate change, geology agriculture etcc....

>>8985151
this, it's good and written by a credible historian

>>8985069
It is good- it is the author's hypothesis which is interesting. Triggers /pol/tards.

>>8985427
> Seriously believes in flawed taxonomy such as division by races
> flawed

The only reason intellectual elite publicly denounce racially charged science is because if they didn't, they would:
1) lose funding from their liberal institutions
2) lose tenure from their liberal institutions
3) lose access to human resources from their liberal institutions
4) get attacked and slandered by [insert litigious Thought Police nonprofit here]

Of course a ton of it was pseudo-science and led to eugenics.
The companies buying up genetic information will actually be able to determine differences in racial traits on a global scale, and they won't be public about it (but their private genetic counsellors might).

If you want to make the Bill Nye claim that "scientifically we're 99.5 the same genes lmao" you could say the same thing about fruit flies

>>8988341
>An argument
We have a winner

>>8985069
A peoples history of the united states by Zinn

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Why do you fags think that this books sucks?
I read it and it was good

>>8986661
goat

>>8988942
Jared Diamond lies to avoid admitting HBD is true.

Trying to explain human societies without HBD is like trying to do astronomy without gravitation. You get epicycles on top of epicycles.

>>8985721
>I think Fukuyama's thesis on success based off of correct behavior by elites and the nature of cultural backdrop behind the the state (tribalism and a pay-to-play culture vs. individualism) is a much worse argument than just saying inclusive institutions lead to a state with a populace that is invested in said state's success, like Daron Acemoğlu.

Honestly, I think this depends on your worldview and the concomitant inclinations from that. Acemoglu is an economist, while Fukuyama is a political scientist/ theorist. The two of them are working in different frameworks, Acemoğlu is very interested in game theory, while Fukuyama is concerned with the strong tendency towards patrimonialism amongst the governing class and the elites.

>>8985823
Not an argument

>>8985554
>We're at least as different as various breeds of dogs.

Fucking retard

>>8985069
It's a good start, but it has problems in that some of the assertions which are true in one or two cases are taken to be rules when they aren't.

A good example of this is the claim that Africa's slower agricultural development was the result of a lower number of domesticable animals and crop plants, which are both extremely and very provably untrue except in a few isolated biomes in Africa.

What's amazing is that you have people now calling Jared Diamond a racist and stuff when his history was actually written with the express purpose of offering different non-racial reasons for the uneven development of civilizations.

>>8985069
Why does the title sound so reddit?

>>8987284
Its a shitty argument (on my part), but the group's geographical spread post diaspora, international connections, and tendency towards nomadism under oppression, combined with stereotypical-but-true tendency to work in wealth generating industries like metals and financial loans created an elite that has always shown a surprising willingness to also participate in tribalism to support their less fortunate agrarian peers.

>>8986661
>I can't believe you people. I leave for a day and everything goes to shit.
>predicts that western civilization will soon collapse in 1918
>100 years later and we aren't even close
trash desu