Who is the Bach of literature?
What's the My Neck, My Back of literature?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDJu7r6OUvk
>>8982084
are you implying Bach is the greatest?
>>8982084
Love for form and balance? I would say Pope.
Gongora
Someone who people thought was nothing special in his day but go crazy for now?
Melville?
>>8982084
Shakespeare.
Posting some examples (of Bach):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvCM3jHLwxU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l9xes_bNws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzI5eSA-Eck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBl0N6NJpZo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asa7FOnkQtE
>>8982254
/lit/ is better at music than /mu/ is.
Thanks anon.
>>8982129
Pope is definitely a good stylistic match, but I think he is missing the massive influence and reputation that Bach had/has in music. Pope doesn't often come to mind as one of the largest figures in the history of English letters, whereas Bach is in his medium.
>>8982254
Posting some more:
https://youtu.be/5_lHARqkibM?t=12m46s
https://youtu.be/YszmEsvI6h8
https://youtu.be/LzVEe0ObiLE
https://youtu.be/cOzwicNcopQ
>>8982129
>Pope
but he was a Lutheran, thou cur
>>8982084
Borges
for the way everything works together and clicks and has an air of inevitability and models the deeper workings of the universe
>>8982194
This
One owes the Christian church: its 'intolerance' made the European mind refined and supple. One sees immediately how in our democratic age, with the freedom of the press, thought becomes coarse. The Germans invented gunpowder - hats off to them! But they made up for it: they invented the press. The ancient polis was of just the same disposition. The Roman Empire, in contrast, allowed much freedom of belief and unbelief: more than any empire allows today: immediately, the consequence was an enormous increase in the degeneracy, doltishness and crudeness of the mind. - Leibnitz and Abelard, Montaigne, Descartes and Pascal - how good they look! Seeing the supple audacity of such minds is an enjoyment one owes the church. - The intellectual pressure of the church is essentially the unbending severity with which concepts and valuations are treated as fixed, as aeternae. Dante gives us pure enjoyment through this fact: that under an absolute regime one certainly need not be narrowly restricted. If there were restrictions, they were stretched across a tremendous space, thanks to Plato; and one could move within them like Bach within the forms of counterpoint, very freely. - Bacon and Shakespeare seem almost revolting when one has thoroughly learned to savour this 'freedom under the law'. Likewise the most recent music in comparison to Bach and Handel.
>>8982190
>nothing special
>personally requested by Frederick II
fuck off.
>>8982194
Shakespeare wasn't as adherent to the classic models.
>>8982369
Except Bach has strength.
Joyce/Wallace/Pynchon - Catastrophic hodgepodges, the apex of Formalism, quantity over quality, obsession with puns and juvenile humor analogous to obsession with polyphony, antithesis to the Good, spitting in the face of man, spitting in the face God, basically Demonic.
>>8982084
Plato.
>>8982546
>apex of formalism
>joyce/wallace/pynchon
fucking retarded. do you know what form in literature even is?
>obsession with puns and juvenile humor analogous to obsession with polyphony
Not at all, the juvenile is the antithesis of the senile.
>antithesis to the Good, spitting in the face of man, spitting in the face God, basically Demonic
Again, Bach is the opposite (and that's not even a good thing).
This is even worse than the Melville comparison. Read >>8982508
>>8982194
You're absolutely right.
Both highly overrated.
>>8982084
Goethe
>>8982508
>Borges doesn't have >strength
topkwk
>>8982830
>be a boookish Argentinian kid
>grow up reading Shakespeare and Schopenhauer
>travel with papá to Europe and meet avant-garde writers
>come back to Buenos Aires with no friends nor qualifications
>become mildly successful writing mediocre stories about gauchos and detectives
>develop reputation as pretentious douche
>don't feel content with current work
>start writing about DUDE LABYRINTHS LMAO
>massive international success
>hailed as the greatest writer of the century
>bluff in every single interview
>everybody buys it
>tfw people value the persona of Borges over actual merit
>tfw attempts to point out the mundanity of work come off as even more vain
>tfw published a book under a pen name and was treated as a lowly impostor
>tfw denied a Nobel by leftist academia
>tfw only wanted to write humble pulp stories
>tfw died blind and trapped in own labyrinth
>tfw all because of DUDE LABYRINTHS LMAO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65xLkTU7JWA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytkyLt1ZiXE
>>8982254
>>8982319
>Karl Richter
>Glenn Gould
>piano anything
mfw
Props for picking Andreas Scholl, though
>Bach
>Beethoven
>Chopin
The rest of keyboard composition is trash.
>>8982917
>no schubert
>>8982917
>no Liszt
>>8982977
>Not in the same league
>Only the Années de Pèlerinage
>musical mud.
You need to go to more concerts, you sound like a dilettante.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONE0s528hl0
This is probably my favorite Bach cantata, although there's plenty of great ones. What makes Bach so unique among great composers whas that he was just so prolific. He worked constantly and lived to a high age.
>>8982977
Nigger....? Are you retarded? Do you even know anything past the Meme-Tier classical music?
https://youtu.be/hKgcHjq1xKQ?t=14m28s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPBEdKyfDH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m26NQfXPU6Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xNfmsN_8hQ
>>8982989
>you sound like a dilettante
Says the person whose sound-system is too shit for them to realise the superiority of studio recordings to live performances (essentially the same thing without the perfection of several takes and post-production).
Some masterpieces haven't been professionally recorded, nevermind receiving regular performance, you utter plebeian.
>>8983020
Now you're just sounding too ridiculous, shitty bait
>>8982913
>he hasn't read the loser
>>8983020
>post-production
>doesn't even know about the godlike Richter recordings in Prague
just kys
*teleports behind you*
*whispers in your ear*
Beethoven > Bach
*teleports out of thread*
>>8983031
Ah, yes. Gould the great genius that plays Bach like an automaton and hums during studio recording.
>>8983063
>like an automaton
>>8983079
You sound like a degenerate who can only respond by imagining things about the other person then using those for a personal attack.
No, I'm not a dilettante, American, or shut-in who never attends concerts. The fact that such things would concern you either way marks you out as a resentful peon, however.
>>8983088
t. dilettante American shut-in who never attends concerts
>>8983111
Your resentment towards synthesizers, the greatest contemporary nation, and people who can handle solitude, only reveals an even more inferior character to those.
>>8983048
no shit, beethoven was standing on the shoulders of giants such as bach to begin with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puwboQ_zNNI
>>8983548
-Everything- about this is wretched.
>>8983062
German: occupational name or status name for an arbiter or judge, Middle High German rihtære (from rihten 'to make right').
Germans are good peeps mang, two of those references you ">" are about the same guy
>>8983063
Those who dont like Gould are either mediocre pianists (or even "good" ones) or idiots.
I have a feeling you could be both
>>8983573
>-Everything- about this is wretched.
t.Not A. Composer
>>8983633
t.Not A. Philosopher
>>8983633
>t.Not A. Composer
or fan of music, passion, vigor, genius, exceptionalism, artistry, rarity, power, beauty, sublimity, cunning, subtlety, ferocity
>>8983652
>-Everything-
>version
Learn to read.
Contrapuntal greatness ... Only Gene Wolfe can compare to the greatness of Bach, with his embedded stories resonating throughout the whole to create a perfection the dimwitted and foolish and everyone except me will never see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_ISQ-kqopE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehbar90jHz8
>>8983672
>Learn to read.
learn to listen
you really are an unfortunate ling of sap, the fool pities you
>>8982084
Cervantes
>>8983020
>2016
>not realizing that classical music is best when the performer is free to improvise over the music
I hate this current trend of Bach-by-the-numbers. You're not supposed to play it mathematically perfect, you're supposed to FEEL it. The impromptu was essential to Western music until the 20th century.
>>8983758
You're not supposed to improvise over the music, you have to understand the music so you can play with it.
>>8983792
not him but a lot of performs that play baroque don't "improvise" but just add ornaments to the music. some examples are angela hewitt and robert hill
The Art of Fugue is a masterpeice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a6KUAONwzM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIpUppB-NlI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snAv1g80_Po
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfQmitWzuTM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgR8yriJt7k
>>8983823
I appreciate the precision, thanks. I'll check out your examples and think about ornementation.
Just for fun, here's something I like to listen to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAo7fzI1syc
If anon cares to comment, I'd really like to hear it.
>>8982917
No Satie, no Beethoven? Shame on you
>>8983976
>I appreciate the precision, thanks.
ideally, yes. but it's common to see different versions of bach piece (even popular ones, see "The Schwencke measure") because the original is either lost, is of dubious origin, and for any other variety of reasons.
sometimes there is an ornament on the score, sometimes there is a missing (or new) accidental, and sometimes the performer just pays too much attention to the dynamics/tempo markings (which bach himself did not write but a later editor of the score) and it just sounds like a romantic or late classical piece.
the question of a precise performance regarding bach is a complicated one, "artistic liberties" on performances are fine in my book as long as it doesn't ruin the piece.
>>8983840
Brandenburg concertos, and Goldberg variations too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehbar90jHz8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3ygA12-ABo
>>8984044
My intention was not to stress the importance of precision in the context of interpreting Bach (or interpretation in general, even), I was thinking of what you suggested with ornementation in regard to improvisation.
>"artistic liberties" on performances are fine in my book as long as it doesn't ruin the piece
I agree. To deliver the piece intact, so to speak, is the point.
>>8984044
The problems you bring up are very interesting, by the way. I know very little about Bach, I'll listen to the different versions of "The Schwencke measure" for sure.
>>8984347
>I'll listen to the different versions of "The Schwencke measure" for sure.
it's just an inconsequential extra measure added by someone to the prelude in c major from WTC, but it caught my attention anyway
>>8984347
also, an interesting way to listen to bach is via the gerubach and smalin youtube channels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXQY2dS1Srk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRei_s97-U8
in the first video, the uploader explains where the main theme is derived from in the subsequent pieces and the second video shows how the variation is a canon in a intuitive way
>>8984424
That's fantastic, thank you so much!
I particularly think this is great piece of music, for night time in general, but also for reading and writing to, one of my favorites. Mozart wrote preludes to go with some Bach fugues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2JHxWqVarc
Dostoevsky
>>8982847
LOL I fucking hate Borges and all his garlic-stinking wine-swilling dago imitators. The French and the Southern Europeans are redeemable, naturally, but I wish the South Americans would just cut it out already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcSteU9o1aA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x69mB94G4_Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMSwVf_69Hc
>>8984014
>Satie
are you 16 or sth?
>>8983062
>Thinking the Karl and Sviatoslav Richter are the same person
>>8983627
I find Gould either does my favourite interpretation of piece or one I find to be drivel with no middle ground. I greatly admire his range though. He is the only major pianist to play 12-tone music and you can find recordings for the English renaissance composers as well as earlier baroque music like Swedenborg.
>>8983048
Beethoven was too inconsistent to be considered greater than Bach. His early works are plagued with the overthrowing of his inherited musical legacy which ill suited him. He was pretty unique among composers for giving absolutely zero shits about what anyone thinks about his music. This supreme self confidence made his late work great but meant a lot of his middle work is crap. It's not until you get to his later Symphonies, string quartets and piano sonatas that we see the real, true greatness of a classical music master. Bach however, in addition to writer more truly great music never wrote anything anywhere near as bad as the bad works by Beethoven.
>>8983011
>What makes Bach so unique among great composers whas that he was just so prolific.
Not really. Most composers of the time before Beethoven, being but mere servants had to write a lot of music. If you can think of a great composer who lived before Beethoven the odds are that they were prolific.
>>8984424
I think this channel is great for showing to people who don't know anything about classical music but asides from that I don't think it has much use. The visuals don't give nearly enough information that you would gleam from reading the score and the recordings he chooses are usually terrible (because he has to pick from copyright free recordings) and his piano playing isn't exactly masterful.
>>8982254
>Bach
>Classical Guitar
good1 m8
>>8984809
>garlic-stinking wine-swilling dago imitators
>>8987051
>>Bach
>>Classical Guitar
>good1 m8
Bachs compositional technique, motive, method, was so such, that it could be transposed to any instrument and sound good.
We, who matter, listen to Bach to hear the I+I+I+I=IIII
The one + one + one + one = four
uno + uno + uno + uno = cuatro
un + un + un + un = quatre
is admittedly delectable icing on the cheerry cake.you pungent poignancy of an ape fart
>>8986408
>I find Gould either does my favourite interpretation of piece or one I find to be drivel with no middle ground.
I can understand this, and even if it were true for me, as it might be, it wouldn't matter at all to me, because the fact of what he recorded that I do like is such a net positive, he could have had 1000 recordings of utter crap and I wouldn't be able to mind.
Here are some of my favorites I have found of his, of which, I don't know if I have reason to seek out other recordings of these pieces. Sure they may be better audio quality, I might find many that have qualities which I prefer, maybe better. But I just dont know, I feel it would be very hard to top these, plus that "these are these recordings of these pieces are the ones I have listened to hundred times and grown so accustomed to, so hearing any other performance would bother me hearing something slightly off..even if potentially I had heard those first and grown accustomed to them, I may prefer them in that way... but somehow I dont think thats the case with the Gould recordings I like, we shant attempt to speak of our ability to judge art objectively, but my subjective objective tastes, this is my opinion"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtVFbmi9meQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkhwK5YEksI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh8q6CfhjtI
(Gould's memory capacity was legendary. Both his mental and finger memory made it possible for him to reproduce and play music literature many years after his last practice and performance of the same. A famous illustration of this statement would be an event that occurred in 1970, when the renown Italian pianist, Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli, was unable to go through with his performance of Beethoven's Concerto No.5, Emperor, in Toronto. Gould was given a telephone call on Thursday evening. The problem was explained, and he was asked to substitute for Michelangeli the next morning, on Friday, when the Toronto Symphony and the conductor, Karel Ancerl, were scheduled to work with Michelangeli. Gould's answer was affirmative and good-spirited. In the space of the next few night hours, Gould rehearsed the Concerto he had not touched in four years. The program was televised and, subsequently, aired on September 12, 1970. To everyone's amazement, Gould played Beethoven's Concerto in front of the camera flawlessly and by heart.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVrUaiL2gz8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpcgNrzMIH4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnRIU4u7B9o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzJsfZHssIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onfZgmojGY8
>>8987051
Here ya go bud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVqbl95Ezv4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olW6-jhSgMg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaF0vu_AMSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mZvdGAGlOo
Is satan really stubborn enough to resist these heavenly temptations?
>>8987795
this one is one of my favorites. an automaton my asshole.
>>8982328
alexander pope you shit eating retard
Shakespeare. Like Bach, he didn't create any new forms but built upon the work of his predecessors by giving them greater depth and complexity.
>>8983011
Good choice, Anon. Here are two of favourites.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3lRdb5BSGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keT3Gnypbt4
>>8982508
>Shakespeare wasn't as adherent to the classic models.
>MERCUTIO.
>The pox of such antic, lisping, affecting fantasmines, these new tuners of accents! “By Jesu, a very good blade! A very tall man! A very good whore!” Why, is not this a lamentable thing, grandsire, that we should be thus afflicted with these strange flies, these fashion-mongers, these “pardon me’s,” who stand so much on the new form, that they cannot sit at ease on the old bench?
But you're more or less right, except Bach invented much of what are NOW "classic models"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaIQm0ToQJw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Q0MnkwUuU
Do you prefer depressing or triumphant bach?
chekhov
Bach
>>8982319
You have really shit taste and, from an academic standpoint, objectively don't understand why Bach is important
>>8988704
>Objectively important
kys
>>8988818
>I don't understand how the academic world works and get upset by this fact
2/10, made me reply
>>8982121
I don't think we need to bother to imply that when it is clear to all by default.
You probably got this question from Pound's ABC of Reading, and Pound's answer was 'nobody'.
That might have meant 'Ulysses', but I don't think so.
>>8982508
Nietzsche was always on point.
>>8982815
>matthew passion is so good, mein got
Yet it lacks the sobriety and raw power of the johannes passion
>>8990440
Yet it lacks the richness and refinement of the St Mathew Passion.
>>8990567
I don't think the mathew passion is richer per se, but I guess more refined is correct in the sense that it is more complicated and a larger orchestration of more people/instruments.
>>8982917
Messiaen??
>>8982084
I'd say that it's a toss up between Nabokov or Joyce
>>8982084
Bachs sons were pretty rad too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qonx7vKoroM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN7AI7yi_QI
>>8992323
>Bach's sons
>Anything other than abominations onto the legacy of the father