has anybody read this? what did you think? i just finished it

also would say that mccandless is the ultimate villain of the book? i mean he had the information and the maps of that land that showed there was nothing there which the others were trying to keep from being leaked so they could send forces there. but he was apathetic to the whole situation and kinda welcomed the destruction that would ensue like he didn't have the power to stop it in his hands. then just selling out to the gaywad lester and fucking off to an island somewhere.wtf

Exhausting, and incredibly cynical. Really don't think there's a single "good" character in the whole novel, Liz included: I got the feeling that the "book" she was writing was just empty plagiarism, a greedy pastiche of ideas unoriginal and scenes relevant little-but-herself (this idea kinda comes into play through McCandless when he says something along the lines of "People think shit is interesting just because it happened to them").

The parts of the novel that aren't dialogue are written in an insanely arcane way; Gaddis seems to hate many, many things, with commas potentially being like in the Top 3 of Things Most Hated.

Like a lot of postmodernism I imagine this work only getting more and more relevant and pertinent with age. Very excited to get into J R.

Some scattered thoughts

>>8949774
yeah, it's weird there is definitely a dualist nature to all of the characters. like a constant struggle and push and pull. you see it where liz says to billy that he reminds her of paul in many ways and you see it with mccandless/lester. different sides of the same coin.

the scenes with paul and liz were very exhausting. i was always happy when he would fuck off on a trip for a few days and dreaded when he came back.

>>8949814
The last God damn section of the book when Paul came God damn back were God damn fucking excruciating I mean like God damn the dude just talks without taking a God damn breath and gotta get the God damn phone hello yes yes Liz yep uh huh Liz God damn it get me a God damn drink

>>8949821
lol right
in jr there are some speech patterns that gave me the same kind of dread but it's funny the sense of relief that washes over when you see another one of your favorite characters pop up again.

>>8949726
No, I'd say that McCandless is just so chewed up by the system that he can't even bring himself to try and do anything because he knows it'll just get stomped down. Of all the characters, he has the fullest picture of the situation with the coming war in Africa and he seems to be the only one who really cares about the moral implications of that. There's an impenetrable irony to the choice that he's given: no matter what, the government will go to war, but it wants the maps to justify this even though the maps do not contain this justification. So what's the point? If the system is going to destroy itself regardless, you might as well take some of its money if its willing to waste it on you. In the end he turned out better than pretty much any other character.

Gaddis admitted that he based McCandless on himself, so there's always that to consider too, not that Gaddis ever shied away from extreme self-deprecation. Ultimately, I think a McCandless-type cynicism is an inevitability for any highly educated person who has ideals about creating a more just world.

>>8949867
For a book named J R, there definitely was not enough J R. Every time I saw "HOLY..." I knew a good part was coming up

>>8949910
what your take on when mccandless previous wife shows up at the house? she mentions being institutionalized and pretty much like whatever he told you is a lie. just a front to protect her?

I'll add it to my 'books I'll read after finishing my endless anime fanfiction' because of this thread.
Be grateful.

>>8949944
Kind of pissed at myself for not remembering this (if you have the page number when she talks about this it would be very helpful--my edition is the one pictured in the OP), but I think my impression of her was that she was probably more of a liar than McCandless. Since what a lot of what he said about Ude and the CIA's previous exploits in Africa turned out to be true, confirmed by other characters that he didn't have contact with, I think McCandless was mostly truthful regarding these things. His ex-wife had plenty of reason to hate him too which of course makes her more prone to lies and exaggeration. But I think ultimately one of the points the novel tries to make is that in a country where every image and statement is relentlessly controlled by PR, truth via a correspondence of the facts becomes impossible and instead is more a matter of guessing who "seems" like they're telling the truth, or who's the most friendly, or who will pay you off, etc. Considering the reader's view of the novel's events comes from out-of-context conversations, scraps of newspapers and notecards, one side of phone conversations, etc, you're left with the feeling that even though you have lots of information about the characters, you really know nothing about them. Epistemologically depressing

>>8949987
great insight anon

>>8949987
starts around pg 248... yeah i was thinking the same thing. no reason for lester to come around either.

>>8950041
thanks for the page number. Rereading it, she doesn't necessarily dispute his account of Africa--it seems like she's just calling them "stories" in a way that mocks McCandless's obsession with the surveying expedition. The other lies she brings up about him are probably legit, such as having a kid (something he probably lied about so it was easier for him to perv on Liz), but if anything the wife's nonbelief about the gold would be based more on her resentment towards him than the actual findings of the survey. McCandless's obsessions ruined her life and she just wants to deflate his aura of self-importance in front of someone who listened to him