War and Peace Reading Group: Day Six

The reading for day 6 is to finish Book One, pp. 264-313.

>>8877795
It might be hard to read over Christmas (and Christmas Eve), it being, you know, Christmas.

>>8877795
OP (of the reading group) here. Thanks for doing this.

I think we should take Christmas and Boxing Day as rest/catch up days, with maybe a general thread on Boxing Day.

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>>8877795

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>>8878097

>>8878097
Ippolit is truly off the charts.

>>8878097
What makes Kutuzov autistic?

>>8878097
This chart is surprisingly accurate and well thought out.

>>8878130
We don't have enough info to say for certain

You just get the feeling y'know, that he does autistic shit in his spare time, like actual autistic shit like stack objects on top of each other an washing his hands a lot

>>8878130
He went to sleep during the meeting, woke up, shrugged, went back to sleep. In the middle of a war meeting, just to show his disdain for Weyrother. That's pretty autistic, like the response of a child who doesn't get his way.

>>8878145
Jesus fucking christ lol

>>8878154
Well, I don't know about that. I don't think it was only to show disdain for Weyrother. The plan had already been decided on and someone (maybe even Kutuzov?) said to, I believe, Andrew, that any more talking is totally pointless. So why not sleep during it?

>>8878154
Pretty sure he's just old m8

>>8877795
>>8877820
Yeah, it's a holiday, there should be an extra catch up day for Christmas, maybe Christmas Eve

These threads are great btw, my thanks all all OP's

>>8878154
He's just expressing disrespect for the faulty plan. There's nothing autistic about it, I think that you folks are saturating the use of the word.

>>8877795
Why don't you kill yourself, shuba-duba?

>>8877795
That's a bretty good photo you got there

>>8878205
Wut?

The scene when the battle is over and Dólokhov and the regiments are trying to cross the bridge was very well written. Crossing that bridge, then the response of all the others after seeing Dólokhov crossed was very well illustrated by Tolstoy. A writer has never made me feel the way I felt reading that scene.
And when lil Bolkónsky charges with the standard, and gets others to charge alongside him, I truly believed he was going to at least have a little mini victory on the field, maybe impale on person. But na, he just gets bonked on the dome.
I really like how Tolstoy gives Napoleon very compassionate and grounded feeling to all of the soldiers. You see how the feeling of the French army is, just a wee piece, when after the first skirmish, in lil Rostov's eyes, at the beginning of the day 6 reading, the captured Frenchman "brought with him to our rear guard all the freshness of the atmosphere of the French troops, which was so foreign to us." Tolstoy is acknowledging that the French army, even after the defeat st Schöngreben, had a very respectful and composed military tradition. And we see the contrast of how the prisoners of war are treated. The Frenchman's horse was sold to the first buyer, while the more professional French military, and through the eyes of lil Bolkónsky, has Napleon directly addressing and acknowledging his captives and the French soldiers, following the example of their compassionate self-crowned emperor, give's back Andrei's truly precious Icon to its rightful owner . While the contrast of the Austrian and Russian emperors are not as in touch with their countrymen as "Buonaparte" is. And Tolstoy, as a Russian, acknowledges this virtue that Naploleon has over his enemies.

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Map of the Battle of Austerlitz from OWC

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Dispositions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Austerlitz

>>8878124
>>8878097
Kek. Indeed, my friend.

>>8878097
Pure gold.

>>8878551
This is great. Thanks for sharing.

Can anyone reading the original Russian say how close the translation is here?

>“Lads, it’s not the first village you’ve had to take,” cried he.
>“Glad to do our best!” shouted the soldiers.

Is "Glad to do our best" meant to sound as corny as it does in English?

This takes place at the end of Part 3 Chapter 15.

This is from near the beginning of part six, so I'm putting it in spoilers. It's not plot or themes, just a little passage that was touching:

'Yes, it is the same oak,' thought Prince Andrew, and all at once he was seized by an unreasoning spring-time feeling of joy and renewal. All the best moments of his life suddenly rose to his memory. Austerlitz with the lofty heavens, his wife's dead reproachful face, Pierre at the ferry, that girl thrilled by the beauty of the night, and that night itself and the moon, and . . . all this rushed suddenly to his mind.
'No, life is not over at thirty-one!' Prince Andrew suddenly decided finally and decisively. 'It is not enough for me to know what I have in me—every one must know it: Pierre, and that young girl who wanted to fly away into the sky, every one must know me, so that my life may not be lived for myself alone while others live so apart from it, but so that it may be reflected in them all, and they and I may live in harmony!'

This reading was my favorite part of the book so far. It turned into quite the page tuner.

I was sensing that Austerlitz was already lost before it began. Everyone just went through the motions listening the battle plan, and didn't do shit to change it. They knew it was a shit plan -- why did they go through with it? I thought it was fucked up some of the regiment leaders didn't even lead their guys into battle. It's no wonder the battle was a total clusterfuck. One thing that surprised me was the scale of the battle. Having to run a message 8 miles across the battlefield to change things up -- it's pretty apparent why having a good plan up front is crucial.

It was interesting to see Andrei and Nikolai switch experiences from the previous battle, with Andrei getting (much more severely) wounded this time and Nikolushka making it out unharmed. Both of these guys also had the chance to talk to their heroes (The Tsar and Napoleon) finally. However, they both remained silient and could not say a word due to the circumstances of their meetings.

> What will happen to Prince Andrei?
> What will come after this devastating loss?
> What's up with Pierre's fat ass?

I guess I'm starting to get a little ahead in the readings now. I have finished day 7 and am having a hard time slowing down. The book is so good. I suppose Christmas will slow me down some. Thanks to all for participating and keeping this reading group alive.

Btw Marya is best waifu. I ain't one to hate on a face.

>>8877795
I'm 3 days behind but it's looking good so far

>>8878588
>meant to sound as corny

Basically, no - it's a formal response. When I read it, it doesn't register as anything but "well yeah that's how soldiers ought to respond to being praised by a higher rank".

>>8878870
When you read the English or the Russian? Perhaps I'm reading into it too much, but it felt like a witless response.

If Russian, I'd be interested to see the original and and maybe an explanation of what it means, if you would.

>>8878852
You have two catch up days now, so take heart!

So you guys have gotten through the battle of Austerlitz now, right? I'm going to re-post something I wrote up and posted in an earlier thread now that you're there. I'll still put it in spoilers just in case anyone doesn't want to read it, but it should be ok for everybody now:
From the Battle of Austerlitz, I found an epic simile: "As when a window is opened a whiff of fresh air from the fields enters a stuffy room, so a whiff of youthfulness, energy and confidence of success reached Kutuzov's cheerless staff with the galloping advent of all these brilliant young men."

A second epic simile comes a little later: "But as a youth in love trembles, is unnerved, and dares not utter the thoughts he has dreamt of for nights, but looks around for help or a chance of delay and flight when the longed-for moment comes and he is alone with her, so Rostov, now that he had attained what he had longed for more than anything else in the world, did not know how to approach the Emperor, and a thousand reasons occurred to him why it would be inconvenient, unseemly and impossible to do so."

I suppose these epic similes—the first we've seen so far, if I've been paying attention—are used to create a thematic bridge back to the Iliad, because not only do they have the same structure as Homer's similes (as...so...), they're used in the same time too, i.e. used during war.

The final thing, also from the battle, was just a pretty passage: "All about the field, like heaps of manure on well-kept plugh-land, lay from ten to fifteen dead and wounded to each couple of acres."

It's probably not peculiar that Tolstoy compares the dead littered on the field with animal waste. I think it's a brilliant little simile to help drive home the theme of war being wasteful and petty.

>>8878893
In Russian.
It's "Paды cтapaтьcя" and word-by-word the "Glad to do our best" translation is exact.

>an explanation of what it means

Literally it means exactly what it was translated into but since it's also just what they were supposed to answer with, as a formal response, the meanings of its constituents blend into a conventional meaning of a simple 'thanks'.

>>8878970
Thank you! I didn't realize it was a proper, formal answer in Russian, but I suspected some subtext might have been missed in the translation.

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>tfw you want to participate in these threads, but you're too scared some asshole will just drop a spoiler for no reason

Finished the reading for day 6.

Words read on day 5: 21,961
Time taken: 57 minutes

Total words read so far: 132,592
Total words in book: 563,286
Total time taken so far: 5 hours 37 minutes
Approximate total reading time: 25 hours

We have now read as much as LOTR: The Return of the King, or A Tale of Two Cities, or Twilight Saga: New Moon.

All four books together, the Twilight series is longer than War and Peace.

>>8879068
Please participate anyway. I think I'm the only one really reading ahead and I'm putting anything from ahead in spoilers. The reading group needs discussion.

>>8879510
Ive finished the book recently but i enjoy reading the discussion to refresh muh memory. Not gonna be dropping any spoilers though

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I added the book Give War and Peace a Chance by Andrew D. Kaufman to the Mega folder. Here is a mirror.

http://www113.zippyshare.com/v/SJIZcALW/file.html

All bullshit aside is this book really worth the long read?

>>8879595
Yes, it's great and 1200 pages isn't even that many

>>8879595
I'm enjoying it so far.

>>8879595
It's shorter than the 4-book Twilight series, and only a bit longer than a GRRM novel. It's a long read, but it's not like the average person doesn't already read more every year.

>>8879637
It's not exactly the same though. You can read 1000 pages of harry potter in a day with minimal effort, but a lot of other writing takes a longer if you want to actually absorb it.

>>8879640
I see Tolstoy as being in the middle as far as how quickly you can read and still absorb it. True, it isn't thoughtless like Harry Potter and is worth consideration, but it isn't such a dense text that I feel like I have to read slowly or even repeat passages multiple times, such as Ulysses.

>>8879595
I'm glad this is a long read, the book is good.
Why would i care about the duration of the book if i'm enjoying it?

>>8879708
It makes you sad when it's finished

Are we taking 12/24 off, 12/25, or 12/26?

>>8878097
Andrei's dad should be up there with Kutuzov

Why is Pierre such a cuck?

>>8879595
>War and Peace
>worth reading

Pick two.

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>>8878899
Thanks for the (you), I'll get it done

>>8879814
Yeah, let's make this clear. When the next catch up day is going to be?

>>8880830
I think today is a catch up day since day 6 marks the end of book one.

There may have another catch up day tomorrow, it being Christmas and all.

>>8880865
OP suggested >>8877863 catch-up days on 12/25 and 12/26 (Christmas and boxing day).

Personally I think taking 12/24 and 12/25 is better. If you do celebrate Boxing Day in the UK or Canada, you can read today and take off Monday anyways. Most of the reading group participants are not UK/Canada.

So, all in favor of taking 12/24 and 12/25 off?

>>8880922
yeah

>>8880922
Aye

not reading this now but just wait till they dance the mazurka, just wait

youre in for a real treat

also

> hesitating for a second about fucking ugly sonya and for dat sweet sweet trust fund money

>>8880922
Yes, your excellency.

>>8880922
OP here

I think this is the best course of action. You've all got the night off.

In case I don't get the chance to say it tomorrow, have a nice christmas everyone. You've been the best reading group an OP could hope for.

>>8881400
Merry Christmas, Your Excellen-lency.

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>>8881400

>>8881530
You put too much work into that.

I can't catch up with so much rampant effort going on around me.

I watched the movie yesterday, it was pretty decent but lacks a lot of what makes the book great.

Audrey Hepburn is great though, muh dick

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>>8881690
I made some more.

I hope you use these, OP!

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>>8881812
>French translated to English

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>>8881690

>>8881813
Incidentally, this man is how I've been imagining Andrei.

>>8881813
Those Maudes really had no idea what they were doing, am I right!?

>>8881825
Yes. On a conceptual level, yes. On a technical level they're slightly better than the Pees & Vees.

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Soldier

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Possible spoilers. Who is the guy on the right?

I think in our reading we are only the equivalent of one page into this children's book.

>>8881843
Gods that's so achingly cute.

>>8881847
Also Merry Christmas you pseudy faggots.

>>8881843
I think it's Pierre.

>>8879580
I was reading the preface of this book today. Here's a interesting quote:

> It is perhaps worth pointing out that the word for “peace” in Russian is identical to the word for “world” or “cosmos”—mir, pronounced “meer.” So, when Russians hear the title of the novel, they are hearing not just War and Peace, but also War and the World, which, in fact, captures an essential dimension of this novel missing in the English rendition.

I don't know if i need to read this book before or after reading War and Peace, but so far it has good insights.

>>8877795
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>>8882033

MERRY FUCKING CHRISTMAS YOUR EXCELLENCIES

>>8882152
"Mewwy Cwistmas to you too, deah fellow!" - Denisov

>>8882152
Thank you, your Excellency.

>character gets brutally wounded on the brink of death
>shakes it off a few chapters later

After being conditioned to cheap deaths for shock value, I'm actually finding this refreshing for some reason.

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>>8882489
who gets brutally wounded? nicolas rostov?

if you mean him, he wasn't gravely injured. he was 20, in his first real battle, and got scared. his family overreacted because he's their precious baby boy. even nick knew that the real story (in which his horse gets shot, he falls, then runs away from a frenchman) wasn't that dramatic or impressive.

what i don't understand is that the rostovs receive a letter in his handwriting, but in book three, chapter VII, nicolas says:
>"Oh dear, what a beast I am!" muttered Rostov, as he read the letter.
>"Why?" [Boris]
>"Oh, what a pig I am, not to have written and to have given them such a fright!"

>>8882542
Because that was his first letter.
He is lamenting that he only wrote one letter to them, not giving them notice and writing more letter before he got injured.

>>8882587
That how I read it, more like "why didn't I write them more".

Here's the OWC Maude version:

>‘Oh, what a pig I am, not once to have written, and to have given them such a fright!

not once to have written, and to have given them such a fright with my first letter!

>>8882587
>>8882613
ahh, that makes much more sense and is now very relatable—kids don't write their parents unless something's wrong or they need something (like 6000pyб).

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>tfw not fast enough to keep up with you guys
Started around the same time these threads did, barely on page 50
I want to meme too

REEEEEEEEE

Christmas was meant to be catchup but I got a fucking tonne of awesome books and now I want to read them reeeeeeeeeeeee

How can it be so painful to have so many good things?
>>8883444
At least I'm faster than you.

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Merry Christmas, M. Buonaparte.

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Guys, we can all stop reading this now. Turns out everything Tolstoy wrote was wrong.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1577123.Tolstoy_Lied

>>8883767
That is unnecessarily complicated and pseudy.

this thread is some fucking cancer

>>8878097

It's more or less a stock response yes. Like the expected return that you're supposed to give when given praise

>>8878970
I'd say something more like "glad to try"

>>8883767

Oh my god! A folk wisdom maxim doesn't exactly hold true in real life!? How shocking

>>8883811
This thread IS some fucking cancer.

But it's Christmas. Only turbospergs and lonely NEETs would be posting; this is expected.

>>8883826
Do you need attention? Will you keep saying that the thread is cancer until someone replies?

Merry Christmas

What colour would you say this book is?

I'd place it at a pale, Prussian blue. Almost indigo.

i got war and peace for christmas

is it too late to start reading it?

>>8885416
It's been well over a century.

>>8885426
i mean for the reading group

>>8885454
Well, it feels like it's been well over a century.

>>8885462
what did he mean by this?

>>8885481
If you can read real fast you can join, sure. It's not a sekret club. You got ~250pages IIRC.

What translation?

>>8885416
We are planning on doing a bunch of catch up days, so it's not too late. Start tonight!

This thread feels like a refuge in a hurricane. /lit/ is filled with so much shitposting it's almost unbearable. Thank you all for being awesome and Merry Christmas!

>>8877795
im on page 524, i love it. had to put it down for the semester bc /phdlife/ but i picked it back where i had left it. its the little passages that make it god tier

Elen is such a piece of shit

>>8887705

NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD
NEW THREAD

>>8887705

>>8885378
Yeah, this book is blue. Tolstoy is blue in general. Dostoevsky is red tho

>>8887879
I agree. Dosto is red and brown-yellow. The Bible is a lighter, brighter shade of beige-yellow. Like Dosto is the Namib desert, while the Bible is the Savannah.

Gogol is the colour of thatch. Sterne is scarlet. Joyce is black, with other shades interwoven. Homer is the colour of rotting grass: bronze.

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>>8887908
>mfw someone else has exactly the same colours for different writers as me

Apart from the bible: the new testament is more blue than the old testament for me.

I don't even have synesthaesia; I just assign writers with colours.

For you, is Woolf a mixture of the same blue as Tolstoy, along with a kind of light marine green, that's very non-concrete and vague, like a light filtered through green coloured glass?

>>8887933
It's probably from covers and associated imagery. The Bible and its desert (for me) -- red is on every Dosto cover ever -- I don't have a clue about Joyce. But I've noticed the colours I think of music happen to be exactly the same as the covers of their albums.

As for Woolf: The Waves is her most famous book. And yes, that's the colour I've got pinned to her.

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>>8887970
Yeah, it has to come from somewhere. And I seem to remember one of her covers having those sorts of colours on it. Still a pretty interesting phenomenon. I think the brown-yellow comes from his clothing and complexion in pic related.

>>8887981
*the brown-yellow of Dostoevsky

Damn Chrismas fucked me up. Only just finished Day 6's reading and the new thread is already up.

>>8887981
It's probably shared by lots of people. All the covers of Crime and Punishment seem to use some brown-yellow:
>https://d29tck6gbvn3gu.cloudfront.net/uploads/covers/crime-and-punishment.jpg
>http://www.prepwise.com/wp-content/uploads/Crime-and-Punishment.jpg
>http://cenes-arts.sites.olt.ubc.ca/files/2015/08/screen-shot-2014-05-19-at-3-30-46-pm.png

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>>8887996
And let's not forget Brothers Karamazov.

Crime and Punishment's most famous cover, incidentally, is red.
>https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/Crimeandpunishmentcover.png

I wonder what starts this colour-association thing.