Gramsci

Yeah man, definitely. He is the original "cultural Marxist." In the canon of Marxism, I would say he was only second to Marx and Engels in terms of profundity and depth of insight.

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>>8853499
>only second to these two people

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>>8853449

>>8853678
>Gramsci
>Frankfort School of Thought
wat, he was much closer to classical Marxism

>>8853678
He literally had no relation to the Frankfurt School you blind ideologue.

He's shit O.P. His contemporary Bordiga was better.

>>8853773
It's retards taking /pol/ infographics seriously.

He is a significant divergence from classical marxism though you're right in that he's closer to Trotsky than the Frankfurters, and really can be thought of as a separate branch to Leninism and that schlock. He's very much for localism and traditionalism too. Still very relevant but you will hear some claims that the dudes irrelevant now.

>>8853813
Nah he sided against Trotsky.

>>8853449
Definitely. I have to agree with >>8853799 on Bordiga being better. The focus of his work is entirely different though.

If you know Italian you should definitely also read Onorato Damen's critique of Gramsci.
https://www.marxists.org/italiano/damen/gramsci/index.htm

>>8853833
I've never totally gotten how one sides against Trotsky in any significant way since people seem to interpret him so widely, but anyway you're right but that's part of what makes him closer to Trotsky., Lenin, Stalin etc (who also diverge from one another) in that he actually responded to some of their ideas.

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>>8853678

>>8853847
Also, I should point out that Gramsci is often presented in contrast to Marxist views and part of that is the dovergence from the Russkis, but he is also a subtle partial critic of Marx.

>>8853843
>>8853799
Who are the Bordigan equivalents to peeps like Robert Cox? Bordiga is for sure more relevant to Italian politics but I never see his name come up outside that. I'm still going to give him a second look now tho.

Yes, definitely. Even if you're right wing Gramsci (and the Frankfurt School too) is great.

Bit hard to read. Don't expect to just get the Prison Notebooks and easily skim from cover to cover. You will need some secondary materials. Get Hoare & Sperber's bok.

>>8853518

I thought they came together like Cheech & Chong, or Mork & Mindy.

>>8854026
If you ever take a course on Marx you will quickly find that Marx is really "Marx and Engels".

>>8853449
definitely yes

>>8853882
>Who are the Bordigan equivalents to peeps like Robert Cox?
Nobody?

>>8853895

>Even if you're right wing Gramsci (and the Frankfurt School too) is great.

I can't help but respect Gramsci for dying for his beliefs, but the rest of the Frankfurt school seems to have been made up of cowardly, perverted, hacks.

>>8855245
>but the rest of
Gramsci was not in the Frankfurt school you pleb. Basic research stops you being fucking retarded bro.

>>8853843
wtf who are these bordigists on lit

>>8855211
loren goldner and camatte lol

>>8855340

Their beliefs were quite similar, so what difference does it make? I'm not fully up to date on all the byzantine twists and turns of Marxist political allegiance, so sorry "bro."

>>8855388
>google Goldner
>libcom.org
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>8855397
They were not similar at all, in theory or in practice. All the other anon is saying is that right wing people will probably like both the Frankfurt and Gramsci.

>>8855397
It's not a matter of "different allegiances". The Frankfurt School was a group of German Jewish Marxists who fled to America with the rise of Nazi Germany and wrote a bunch of opposing shit.

Gramsci was an Italian Marxist who was imprisoned in the 20's by Mussolini's government and died in the 30s.

They are only related in that they were Marxists.

>>8855400
idk what u mean--libcom is a good repository for lots of stuff but yes it is by no means an academic/scholarly one of that's what you were looking for. also i'm a fan of goldner's but he's definitely part moonbat; also an ex-larouchite. but you asked for anglophone work following in borgia's footsteps so i delivered.

look into this too; academic work based on an old dissertation: https://libcom.org/library/amadeo-bordiga-myth-antonio-gramsci-john-chiaradia

>>8855431
if that's*
bordiga* not 'borgia' jfc

>>8855431
Maybe I had a few bad hits with some stuff from there I've read, I'm listening to him now and he seems alright.

Also forgot to say thanks bromrade.

>>8855443
no problem. good history to know.

before the cpd'i was founded there was a point where bordiga, gramsci, and mussolini where all in the socialist party together. nerdass gramsci and mussolini were two of the only figures to vote in favor of italy entering the war, a much more unpopular move in italy than in germany. rly makes u think

>>8855467
were* -- this is getting embarrassing, sorry.

as for libcom, don't judge the site, judge the uploads on their own terms. there is a lot of dum dum on there but also probably a lot you'd be interested in.

Only if you're not an autist and interperate in a post-marxist/postmodern sense

>>8853449
Wasn't Gramsci incredibly short, even by early 1900s Italy standards? Like 4'9"?

Having read an edited down version of the Prison Notebooks, he's worth reading, especially to get his idea of hegemony. Kind of a spiritual predecessor to the academic Marxism that would come about 20 years later, although I imagine he would have deeply disagreed with many of them. Can't see much common ground between Gramsci and someone like Marcuse.

>>8855427
thank you

>>8855409
yeah right wings are totaly into Adorno you heck!

>>8857036
>implying you cant appreciate the philosophy of writers you disagree with

The mark of intelligence person is the ability to contemplate ideas without necessarily accepting them as truth.

>>8857036
The Nouvelle Droite is hugely into neo-Gramscianism

Less so crit theory but that's happening too

Pretty obvious reasons why, as capitalism has transformed into a with globalist orgyporgy and started fighting "culture wars" in a world where nationalism is basically illegal

>>8857142
>Pretty obvious reasons why, as capitalism has transformed into a with globalist orgyporgy and started fighting "culture wars" in a world where nationalism is basically illegal
We're basically doomed as a civilization. Capitalism's memetics are too powerful.

The left has successfully been subverted to such an extent that it has zero interest in global economic issues and is instead preoccupied with first world issues like bathrooms and pronouns. And the right sees the left discussing these petty issues and claims this is evidence that the Marxists have taken control of the left.

Meanwhile class rhetoric is completely ignored by both sides, wealth keeps funneling up and the environment is being destroyed in the name of profit.

Thank you left/right idpol.

>>8857336
the right wing started the bathrooms tho

>>8857380
Left is guilty too calling it a human rights issue all the while supporting politicians who want to bomb x country etc.

>>8857125
i said this in another thread but im far-right and marx/gramsci/debord are great

>>8853449
yes he is

>>8857336
>>8857415
That just isn't the "left" anymore. It's tranny-focused-liberalism. Their bread and butter is the liberal state, and they want it to care a lot about trannies.

The real "left" should be a term used exclusively for the people who still have some sense of what leftism is, and are failing it just as badly. Bunch of academics in sinecures jacking themselves off, whose idea of praxis is writing "Why something something Trump is sorta similar to something something Mussolini - by a Marxist historian" articles for Slate.

The tranny-lover liberals are incurably bourgeois. Don't even bother talking about them. If we focus our scorn on the few smouldering embers of real leftism, we can maybe get them to do a thing instead of not doing any things.

>>8857421
Same, I consider myself third position but most people would just consider me a far right dude who dislikes capitalism

>>8857432
I too remember fondly the 20th century, when American mainstream publications were welcoming to hardline socialists.

>>8857432
You are right, it is centrist liberals who are fighting a lot for things such as lgbt rights and such, you can tell because they don't want socialism and they dont have a class analysis. People tend to overestimate the size of the left, its really pathetically small. For example, the largest revolutionary group in the UK has less than a thousand members and they are trots so they wont do anything but sell newspapers anyway.

>>8857456
When the mainstream signs your cheques, you've done something wrong.

>>8857433
yeah thats me too. im socially conservative and favor authoritarianism, so of course I hate capitalism because of its deleterious effects on morality, hierarchy, and man's spirit (among other things).

honestly though I consider technological "progress" to be the most harmful force at work in the world though. No matter how much technology improves our quality of life stays more or less the same; however, we are ever more capable of obliterating ourselves. There's no brakes on that train though, warfare necessitates it, and almost nobody thinks hard enough to see past the 'muh iphone' argument

>>8857433
i know marcuse would disagree, but i dont believe we'll ever reach post-scarcity (especially if we keep feeding africa), and the growing pains/cost of failure make it not worth attempting.

other "controversial" thing i think is that societies should be organized around their indigenous religion, and that a state does best when an uncorrupt church is the center of community and social life. homogeneity creates cohesiveness, and religion > culture > race in that regard

>>8857549
every day I wish that technological progress took 10x longer, so we had some breathing room to figure things out before being given world-destroying toys

>>8857456
Eugene v debs was one of only twelve third party candidates to win 5 % of the vote, and was a legit socialist

>>8857432
tfw ecoterrorism is a joke

>>8857562
>i know marcuse would disagree, but i dont believe we'll ever reach post-scarcity (especially if we keep feeding africa),
That's the opposite of the problem. We can already meet the needs of the entirety of the world's pop.

The thing that will prevent post-scarcity is unsustainable resource exploitation destroying a renewable energy sources in the name of short-term profit. If this is maintained not only will post-scarcity society be impossible but a society with our current standard of living will cease to exist.

Recommended lit: The Entropy of Capitalism.

>>8856519
Ever notice how people act they same way they about money and height?

Those who have it barely even notice it because they have plenty to spare. And those who don't have it obsess about because they never have enough of it.

>>8856519
>>8858666
He had pott's disease, amongst a bunch of other illnesses, which made him a hunchback, that's also what eventually killed him.