There are never technique and theory threads. Metre, form,...and

>>8843551
You were great up until you started psuedo-philosophizing about memes

/lit/ posters don't post about technique and theory because they fell for the vers libre meme hard

>>8843551
judging by the critique threads around here very few /lit/izens actually have an ear for metre. I gave up sharing anything on here a while ago because very few know how to provide genuinely useful critique. When I would share something ambitious in its metrical and formal nuances, people would dismiss it as pretentious garbage. When I wrote in the most basic iambic modes, people would claim I'm too good to be posting here. It simply isn't worth the time.

>>8843584
How do you get critique of your own work then?

>>8843594
I share with tutors, coursemates, and my writing group. Sometimes it pays not to be an autist who can only present his art anonymously online.

>>8843551

we have Haiku threads from time to time

>>8843611
How do I get /lit/ friends? I'm not in college anymore and I'm not particularly charismatic or handsome, but I have decent social skills. Is there any chance I can meet people who take writing seriously? How did you do it?

>>8843613
Still I will say that that is not enough...

>>8843551
according to pound only published poets gets a say in these matters

>>8843624
I'm a literature student, so it wasn't hard to find people who were as engaged in writing as I was. Still, it isn't hard to find writing workshops/groups outside of college - you do have the internet at your fingertips after all! Even I have a natural revulsion towards sharing my work with others, and people can be very cutting, but it wasn't until I felt comfortable openly discussing it that I actually started to improve. Talking through the barriers which prevent you from expressing what you really want to say can do wonders for both your writing and your humility

>>8843645
Quoth where? And I would think his mind would change where he to see /lit/'s horror here.

>>8843645
Pound also hated Jews

>>8843655
In what ways did you improve when people started critiquing your work?

I'm not sure how comfortable I would be in sharing my work but I guess it's good to try.

>>8843656
I had it slightly misremembered. He wrote
>Pay no attention to the criticism of men who have never themselves written a notable work.
which makes more sense for him to say. Still presumably disqualifies everyone here.

http://www.openculture.com/2014/01/read-ezra-pounds-list-of-23-donts-for-writing-poetry-1913.html

>>8843664
Mostly it forced me to stop maintaining some kind of ostentatious pretence about being a writer. Its good when people let you bounce ideas off them, but I've always had a large vocabulary and it isn't fun when people call you out on your purple prose or ridiculous verbosity. Sincerity and simplicity is so much more effective than people are willing to give credit for, and when I embraced that I found myself coming up with stronger ideas at a far more rapid pace.

>>8843657
>unpublished whiner bitching about Pound's unique politics
I'm sorry, but I have to direct my attention to more important ideas and figures

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>>8843551
>Metre, form,...and exercises, things like that. Why?

>>8843551
what are some good books to read to learn about metre and other technical aspects of poetry?

>>8843699
I don't understand you image thinkers. You mean it is because you are brain-dead, or in a coma?

>>8843701
I say read Pound's ABC of Reading, and re-read Shakespeare, Milton, and the poets with the formal aspects in mind. The point is to see it in action.

Because formalism is garbage for pseuds looking to feel sophisticated for recognising patterns.

>>8843713
Formal technique is the domain of pseuds. It relies on an exclusive language to explain incredibly simple concepts and an interior discourse which holds extremely little relevance to people's experience of texts.
Hence why so few people are interested in investing intellectually in the theory which the pseuds claim is a mark of an elite status.

Small pond for small fish.

>>8843713
Because It's fucking boring

>>8843719
>>8843723
You're the psued here. You need to learn the rules to be able to break them effectively, and knowing how to construct pleasing and musical verse is the only way to be a good poet. Otherwise you're just writing random bullshit with line breaks.

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>>8843734
>You're the psued here.
>[immediate cliche platitude]

>>8843734
Citation?

>>8843741
It's cliche because it's true. You don't understand poetry.

>>8843723
For example, how can bearing this
>-/-/-/-/-/
in mind mean "investing intellectually in theory."

I don't ask much. Shakespeare's constancy helps the actor memorize and deliver, helps the audience tune in to the voice's rhythm as if it were music, and the writer organize his ideas.

If it holds "extremely little relevance to people's experience of texts" it is because literary and poetic attention is in decline.

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>>8843745
>You don't understand poetry.

You're basing this on what?

>>8843551

have you considered that this is an anonymous board, and that this is the reason everyone is devoid of identity? have you considered the possibility that your diagnosis of autism is a transferential projection of your own selfish, masturbatory personality onto the blank face of the anonymous Other?

>>8843751
On your dismissal of formal rules. You think Ezra Pound just said "fuck it" and wrote musical, effective free verse without deeply studying the classics and poetic theory?

>>8843757
Oh no I get it, I'm Literature gradute, I just don't care

>>8843759
Nah, you're obviously a teenager

>>8843761
What do you want a photo of my degree? Get outta here

>>8843757
You think contemporary poets are trying to write reflexive poetry playing with the medium itself? Did you miss the whole latter half of the 20th century where conceptualism and post-modernism eclipsed formalism because it was inadequate for our times? Poetry doesn't need musicality, even if it is in its 'origins'. There's not much that poetry needs at all. Formalism is garbage for pseuds, etc.

>>8843771
So your goal is to make conceptual, post-modernist poetry?

wew

>>8843764
yeah post one faggot. with a timestamp

>>8843775
Am I a contemporary poet?

Not sure what your response had to do with my post though.

>>8843780
Formalism isn't "irrelevant". Formalism isn't even a thing, it's just a label psueds put on all poetry that follows rules.

Rules are meant to be broken, but they can't be if you don't understand them. Half of poetry is in it's presentation and musicality, and you can be a pomo faggot who does away with all of it but you wouldn't be remembered. As I said, Ezra Pound had a deep understanding of poetry, that's why he was so good.

>>8843753
>this is an anonymous board, and that this is the reason everyone is devoid of identity
You aren't very subtle. And my diagnosis was from observation, of critique threads and the rest. And the word autism is not "mine", it's been used very often lately, remember?

Anonymity is different in different contexts. In a crowded city, you are anonymous by multiplication. You feel diminished, and feel exactly like all others, a fragment. But online anonymity is very different. My point is that of the dissolution of the personal into the virtual, it's no fragmentation, whilst the locus of what would be your own self is given the function of a sort of temporary and inconstant mimetic canvas, subservient to the virtual.

>>8843775
Formalism is exactly what promotes conceptual bullshit.
It guts the act of creation when poets are putting the vivisection of a work into abstracted components ahead of the poem as a single entity.

>>8843771
Didn't they also conclude literature and erudition themselves were inadequate for our times? etc.

>>8843799
So you're talking about "formalism" in the 20th century sense? You can be a good poet who understands the art of poetry and not be a "soulless formalist". You can be mindful of both sides. You know, like every good poet up until about 1970.

>>8843804
I speak of it as an intellectual ideology. Which is important given the insufferable pretense of the OP.
Its intrinsic merits as a discipline I likewise think is wholly underwhelming

>>8843713
i've read ABC of Reading, and while it was great, i'm looking for something a with a bit more of a basic approach to this kind of analysis. any recs?

>>8843789
>it's just a label psueds put on all poetry that follows rules.

No, it has a meaning. Medium specificity. The concept in conceptualism is a 'rule' but isn't formalism.

>Rules are meant to be broken, but they can't be if you don't understand them.

Contemporary poetry isn't concerned with 'breaking the rules'. It has nothing to do with the medium, like I already said. It's not reflexive.

>but you wouldn't be remembered.

Wow it's almost like the Romantic myth of the hero artist is something that doesn't concern the contemporary poet!

> Half of poetry is in it's presentation and musicality

Evidently not. Restating your opinion doesn't really change the fact that contemporary concerns are different than what you conceive of poetry to be. Maybe you should read more poetry.

>>8843810
OP just wants us to understand the principles of form. Do you want to be in the dark or not?

>>8843815
So you only conceive of poetry as conceptualism vs formalism? What are these "contemporary concerns"?

People like you are more interested in novelty than in artistry, you're using elaborate justifications for simply not putting the work or study in to get a feel and understanding of poetry, which is why pomo bullshit is so attractive to you.

>>8843818
Nonsense, I think OP also wants to wave his over estimated cocklet around

>>8843824
In what way is formalism not entirely centered around novelty?

>>8843841
I'm not defending formalism.

>>8843624
I volunteer at my local library.
Even without volunteering, often times libraries have writing clubs or lectures you can attend.

>>8843713
>I don't understand you image thinkers. You mean it is because you are brain-dead, or in a coma?
lol!!

>formalism is bad!
flew in from miami beach...

>>8843824
>So you only conceive of poetry as conceptualism vs formalism?

No, they are just the most relevant to the discussion.

>People like you are more interested in novelty than in artistry

I don't know who you think you're talking to. I have an interest in formalism, but only historically. I can appreciate artistry.

>using elaborate justifications for simply not putting the work or study in to get a feel and understanding of poetry

I'm not the one who is trying to define poetry while ignoring anything that isn't formalist. Not very rigorous.

I wish I could tell you your hypocrisy here isn't exactly what I was alluding to when I said formalism is for pseuds looking to feel sophisticated. Formalism has its uses, sure -- different forms are commonly taught to writing students -- and certainly there are non-pseuds who are formalist. But the serious advocates for formalism I have seen on the internet all want to give the appearance of being knowledgeable without putting in the work; exactly what they're calling attention to in others.

>>8843818
No, OP wants everyone else to do the work so he can associate with them.

>There are never technique and theory threads.
>The trained and skilled among you should be making those threads

He's not talking about himself.

>>8843895
OP here, I just mean it's an overlooked aspect.

When it is so, it is as if we're looking at a creature without a skeleton. Or a broken leg. Walks awkwardly and screams at every step—and doesn't even know its problem.

The point in technique is that it make the work articulate. But it's true that "formalism", in the sense employed by some ITT, can lead to a sort of arthritis.

Still it remains a fact that /lit/ is AWFULLY biased against technical aspects. The first post thinks the reason is "because they fell for the vers libre meme hard." But in many cases it is simple ignorance. Art will soon become a tiresome field if all agree, consciously or no, upon this amnesiac state.

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>>8843953
>Art will soon become a tiresome field if all agree, consciously or no, upon this amnesiac state.

>>8843958
Again, I don't speak image

>people actually upset because someone's asking why there isn't more discussion of form
how disgusting

>>8843972
Oh it shows

>>8844006
Fuck you.

>>8844006
Form is digusting, my dick has a form, horrible

>>8843689
truth, also realized that sometimes a poem is just a wank instead of a baby

you can need to write something to get it out quickly to focus on more important projects

>>8843734
straight-up retarded
t. someone who actually reads poetry

>>8844021
>sometimes a poem is just a wank instead of a baby

lol