"Decolonize Literature"

Remove the semicolon; nobody knows how to use it.

>>8840687
>687▶
>Remove the semicolon; nobody knows ho
well noted

but answer the question please

>>8840742
>22:23:24
epic numbes

>>8840742
They did this when I was in college. The books weren't too bad but the only reason we were reading them was because they weren't written by white straight men. My professor was oddly enough a white straight man.

Why was colonialism bad? It worked out pretty well for us and the primitives got railroads and a written language in return.

Asking the locals' opinion on colonialism is like asking a child what he thinks of the doctor's office.

>>8840682
Read the five classics, the four books, the ramayana, etc

>>8840781
Not really suprised

since the race that tends to hate white people the most is white people

>>8840687
>>8840718
How come the semicolon always looks so cringey whenever I see it? I can't put my finger on why...

>>8840829
>Asking the locals' opinion on colonialism is like asking a child what he thinks of the doctor's office.
hfsd

>>8841032
>How come the semicolon always looks so cringey whenever I see it?
Because its purpose can be circumvented by just rewriting your sentence; so if you're using it, it seems like you're using it just to sound smart. It might be the only purely unnecessary piece of punctuation. Everything it does can be done with other punctuation.

Also, funny enough, most people use it wrong which makes it even worse that people only use it to sound smart.

>>8840768
It says 05:23:24 retard

>>8841045
learn to use a semicolon u piece of shit

>>8840768
Colorado.

>>8841051
UK.

>>8840682
>WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS MEAN
It means that you have to become another functionally illiterate millennial, because the people that suffered colonialism were illiterate and teaching people to read books is oppression

>>8840687
semicolons are valuable; one reason is that they can help you connect a pronoun to its consequent in a string of sentences where a pronoun's reference might otherwise be unclear

>>8841146
lol

>>8840682
It means move over white boi, only brave PoC are allowed to get published now. You can go die in a gutter for the sins of your fathers

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http://www.returnofkings.com/87477/how-new-york-killed-male-literature
>Dead or muted are the mainstream male literary writers of yesteryear—Thomas Pynchon, Don DeLillo, Philip Roth, John Updike—many of whom are now considered arch-misogynists. In their stead, we have a generation of soldiers of Clintonian globalism led by radical feminists who write about “MUH FEELINGZ” and getting abortions, not to mention race agitators who get front-page editorials in The New York Times for their screeds against the never-ending assault against the “black body.”

is lterature really beyond saving? what happens when corncob and pinecone die? is pic related our only hope?

>>8840682
Authors who aren't white males can't compete with the high quality of white male literature, so they try to suppress white male literature to try to get their own stuff seen.

>>8841194
corncob will be replaced by corn weave

>>8841201
literally this, everyone has to gang up on the white man because of his extraordinary talents for culture.

>>8841205
hey, good joke, neighbor

>>8840829
>its a "Kramer thinks imperialism is a moral crusade of enlightenment" episode

yeah king leopold II wasn't such a bad guy, I mean what use would 10-15 million dead niggers have for a load of ivory anyway?

>>8840829

post-colonialism has nothing to do with native cultures being destroyed. that's a liberal multiculturalist meme; don't believe any post colonialists that hauk that shit. it's about the appropriation of resources and the irreparable stunting of national growth.

>>8840682
It means that we should remove all straight white male authors, because oppression or some bullshit like that.

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>>8841201
I like how liberals basically admit that non-whites are inferior because they treat them like children and always say that they need a handicap. According to progressives they couldn't possibly compete if people didn't counciously treat them preferentially.

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Hmmm

>>8841644
Never have my sides been fucked up so hard by an image.

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The amount of resentment in this thread is hilarious.

Maybe your inability to get published is not the result of a conspiracy or systematic disavowal of white male writers, but rather because your novel is a steaming pile of shit? Yes there is a recent tendency – particularly in liberal award ceremonies – to circlejerk inclusivity and diversity, but that's only because western civilisation began to grow a conscience and entered a phase of self-flagellation. It'll grow out of it eventually (in fact with the rise of trump and nationalist rhetoric its already happening), but in the mean time chill the fuck out fellas. It's totally narcissistic and delusional to think that society offering a helping hand to underrepresented or marginalised groups is a way of excluding white people.

>>8841685
The white man is being genocided, cuck

They're coming for us. Be prepared

>>8841644
I still hope places like the Guardian are just pretending to be retarded

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>>8841685
>is a way of excluding white people.
Actually that's the entire point. Nobody truly gives a shit about negroids or arabs, they're just tools.

>>8841194
>returnofkings

>>8840742
Haven't you ever heard that a gentleman is cultured?

As in, he is familiar with points of view which originate in other cultures?

As in, he gives thought to other cultures - to understand their perspectives.

This is a viewpoint which originated in White European society, so you should be familiar with it, but apparently you aren't, because you're a degenerate.

The entire reason books are read simply because they are written by a minority group is to familiarize the majority groups with perspectives they may not encounter in their own lives.

FFS, lad. This is basic as fuck. Don't look so perplexed.

>>8840829
European colonialism was just about draining resources.

The Japanese colonization of Korea was about as good as colonization ever got - and that's not saying much.

>>8841788

You're a disingenuous fuck and totally not a gentleman

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>>8841724
>no argument

>>8841889
Actually, I was quite genuine and frank.

However, I concede my response was not gentlemanly.

I never made that claim, so your point is on one count wrong and on the other irrelevant.

Congratulations.

>>8842455
>your source is awful
>not an argument
are you retarded?

>>8841045
Dear Jesus. Learn to use punctuation.You're not being meta here, you're just being shitty at grammar.

You don't start a sentence with a conjunction, so you don't need a semicolon before a conjunction. You only use semicolons to join two different clauses each of which would be grammatically correct as a complete sentence; when you misuse a semicolon, you look like a redditor.

>>8841685
>offering a helping hand to underrepresented or marginalised groups is a way of excluding white people
There is so much naked distaste for "straight white men" that you have to be pretty selective to consider diversity initiatives only a result of empathy. Identity leftists resent me and they find it cathartic to insult me. That much is undeniable.

It isn't very important right now (when whites become a minority it may be), but the people dismissing books because they aren't woke are not generally great people.

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>>8842620
still not an argument

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>>8841644

>Hitler's world may not be so far away

If you're constantly jabbering on about nothing is it even possible to swallow gas?

>>8843507
>Identity leftists resent me and they find it cathartic to insult me. That much is undeniable.
It's a kind of socio-political bulimia. White nationalists of all people know how good it feels to purge sometimes. I do see the irony in a 'tolerant' society being wholly intolerant to different viewpoints, but both sides have created such absurd strawmen out of the other that it seems impossible to think any constructive dialogue could take place. They're too busy shouting at unrealistic scapegoats to realise it is a basic condition of contemporary culture to degenerate or disintegrate so that it can reform itself as even more impervious and make organised rebellion totally ineffectual, which is why its so common nowadays for people to seemingly vote against their own interests. Cut your nose off to spite your face and all that.

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>>8843532
He isn't trying to make one, it's purely ideological opposition.
>This doesn't fit with my worldview so your facts and arguments can fuck off because they came from my enemy and my enemy is always wrong even when he is right!

>>8843532
How is impeaching the credibility of a source not an argument? Such notions are prevalent in the justice system.

>>8845176
>arguing by analogy

Not an argument.

>>8841194
>globalism

>>8845155
Is this an edit? Or was he a satirist in the past or something? This can't be real

>>8841194
I don't know what about 'decolonisation' made you think 'globalism'.

>>8841201
No, it's that the standards by which we judge white male literature are useful for judging white male literature, but it isn't universal.

Literature is the written word. Any other rule is arbitrary.

>>8845111
>both sides have created such absurd strawmen out of the other that it seems impossible to think any constructive dialogue could take place
You're vastly overestimating how much white nationalists were represented. From 1970-2014 self proclaimed white supremacists were nonexistent in public dialogue. The white male bashing is old. It's not defensiveness, it's a socially acceptable way to feel like you're rebelling. For decades there has been dialogue about whites and men in many social science departments that verges on hatred. It may have been a shouting match, but for a long time there was only one side to it.

>voting against your own interest
You're a fucking Marxist, too. It should be obvious that not all people are rational egoists with a short time preference.

>>8841644
Decolonisation is a leftist thing, but not a liberal thing.

>>8846998
>leveling that seeks to remove any standards at all
Degeneracy in the genuine sense. Unimpressive and destructive.

>>8846998
Which criteria do you use to judge non-white literature compared to white literature?

>>8847006
It's not removing 'any standards' -- that comment doesn't logically follow.

In any case it's more to to with regeneracy rather than degeneracy. It's not destruction but restoration. Decolonisation is in a metaphorical sense the breaking free of shackles.

>>8847009
Whatever criteria is necessary to the individual example itself. There is no one-size-fits-all criteria for literature. That's the whole point.

>>8847015
You're probably a troll, but

>Literature is the written word. Any other rule is arbitrary.
If you do not see how easily what you're saying turns into total relativism that decries any statements of quality that isn't based on marginalized identity as insular or problematic, you're an idiot.

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>>8841194
>be me
>really good friends with a black girl since years ago
>super chill and funny
>haven't seen her in a while because I've been out of town
>I come back and she's completely fallen into identity politics
>rants about white racists electing trump and the black community being silenced
>I'm centrist so idgaf
>I said I don't really care, I doubt anything is really going to change
>immediately cuts all contact with me and deletes me from everything
>mfw
This meme needs to die.

>>8847028
ur de idot, idot

>>8847028
When did identity come into this? Don't get ahead of yourself. If I'm an idiot for not believing a fallacy then I don't mind.

>>8847034
you need to die

>>8847025
Gives me some examples please.

And you just said all of straight white literature has predefined criteria that aren't applicable to non-straight-white literature. That statement is collectivist and contradicts the individualistic approach that you have just mentioned.

>>8847043
I named the current state of affairs and named the goals of decolonisation. There was no contradiction.

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>>8847041
>it's an anon doesn't understand meaning is derived from the individual and not society episode
Structuralism and identity politics are the worst thing to happen to the western world since Leopold got the idea to colonize Congo.

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>>8840682
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9SiRNibD14

white male =evil

>>8847052
Decolonisation has nothing to do with IdPol.

>>8847057
Identity politics is an extension of structuralism.
Fucking pseuds around here I swear to god.

>>8847052
>it's non sequitur episode

>>8847062
Which also has nothing to do with decolonisation.

>>8847062
Identity politics is meme word leftists use to criticize other leftists. Since it doesn't mean anything no one can defend themselves from the allegation, and therefore it's always safe to use.

>>8847050
>the standards by which we judge white male literature are useful for judging white male literature, but it isn't universal

How can this be true if every piece of work must be judged individually? You are saying white male literature can be judged by the same criteria.

>>8840682
Cultural Marxist hogwash.

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>>8840829
>>8841582
>>8841791
Read The great betrayal by Ian Smith.

Meanwhile China is buying out Africa as we speak.

>>8847075
judging works individually is impossible

>>8847070
Yeah, I was responding to the Kings article. Not decolonization.
Although some strains of decolonization in contemporary times are deeply rooted in structuralism, and they tend to be annoying and fucking dumb.
For example, dumb shit like cultural appropriation.
>>8847074
I mean not really, it's a direct reference to people that form their identity based upon structuralist critiques of society.
I.e. My features are what give me value and assign to me my place in society.

>>8847081
If you can judge white male literature as a group of works, then you must also be able to judge black male literature as a group, is that what you are saying?

If yes, then give me examples for the criteria you would use compared to the criteria you would use for white male literature, please.

>>8847087
i would judge white male literature by # left handed characters and black male literature by the length of the similes

>>8847075
The individual work would be judged by suitable criteria, not that the work would be judged by individual criteria.

>>8841791
The best is proper european colonization would be the settler colonies of England (i.e USA, Australia, etc.), Macao, Hong Kong, i don´t know how to classify those. Second would probably be Latin America. And then the rest.

>>8847074
It's a pretty straight forward term. It describes people who do politics and activism based on the interests of identity groups, such as the american black community, the gay community, the american mexican community, the fat community, the vegan community, the paperclip collector community, etc.

>>8847093
Yes, you said there are suitable criteria for judging white male literature.

What would be suitable criteria for judging black male literature?

>>8847108
I wouldn't know since I don't study it and I don't believe it has anything to do with the argument.

>>8847103
so trade unionism is identity politics

>>8847115
Well if the criteria turn to be the same, then your argument would be kinda silly don't you think?

Your argument would also turn out pretty silly if the criteria would be mostly the same just reduced in terms of requirements à la affirmative actions.

There are many ways your argument could turn out to be silly, that's why it's important to look at the practical application of your theoretical idea.

>>8847116
Only oppressed minority benefit from identity politic. For example there could be black pride, gay pride but white pride is no no.

>>8847041
Typical left tollerance.

>>8847131
I think it's kind of ironic, identity politics in my opinion is creating the unintended effect of creating white identity politics. If you push all your political capital into creating groups out of identities, straight white dude is going to end up being a category by default.
It defines it into being, and the Trump win was an example of that tbqh.

>>8847128
How could it possibly be the same? What requirements are there to reduce? Text? Physical structure?

Do you, for some reason, think decolonisation is about marketability?

>>8847131
why did you reply to me with a post that addressed nothing in my post

>>8847142
I am asking you.

>how can they be the same?
How can they be different? What differentiates the work of a white male and a black male?

>>8847137
>muh tolerance
>inciting violence!
you're in the wrong place hippie

>>8847116
Is a field of work really an identity? Is that really why they come together, because they share an identity, or rather because they have the same employers? That's not identity politcs, but whatever...

There can be reasonable identity politics like white people coming together to petition for more sun cream for their group, because they share sensitive low melanin skin.

Identity politics have a bad name because they are used as collectivist manipulation tools. Suddenly all black people have a position on abortion or health care or fiscal policy, even though all they share is skin color. A characteristic completely unrelated to the problems at hand.

>>8847148
I'm not arguing for essentialism -- there is no 'blackness' to black literature as there is no 'whiteness' to white literature, 'maleness' to male literature, etc. What differentiates the works is that they are not the same work. Even if they were the same, word-for-word, the act of appropriation would make them different. No piece of literature is the same as another.

Should they then be judged the same, just because they have the same basic 'form' of involving the written word or having the physical structure of a book? Should art music be criticised because I am unable to dance to it in the club?

An individual text by a white male can be judged by suitable criteria, most likely to be along the lines of other white male literature since that is the immediate socio-historical and likely theoretical context in which it is produced. Of course, the suitability of the criteria is discussed in tandem with the criticism itself. Is it useful judging a Romantic novel by the standards of modernist formalism, just because they are typically 'white male'? It could be, but this would have to be justified.

Is 'decolonise literature' a ploy to get more marginalised groups on the market? No, it's a movement away from universal criteria of judgment; away from systems of colonisation.

>>8847038
>When did identity come into this?
When we're total relativists about esthetics and then turn all art into ways of bettering society

>>8847053

Ugh, this is where I'm going next year :(

>>8847192
First of all: How are the universal criteria of judgment that we have "systems of colonisation" exactly? What makes them colonial?

Secondly:
>judging literature based on socio-historical criteria like genre, social environment and time period
We already do that since forever, so that must be part of the current universal judgment system of colonization?

Lastly:
>Is it useful judging romantic novel by the standards of modernist formalism, just because they are typically 'white male'
>It could be, but this would have to be justified
Yes exactly, that's what I was asking for.

>>8847116
someone who works on the railroads and is a member of the Rail Union can theoretically change jobs, work in service and join the Hospitality Union. He or she is not defined by the job they work. Anyone can (theoretically) work any job any other person can work.

A black person can't become an asian person. That's the difference.

>>8847242
why should political organization only be based on temporary groups

>>8840682
It means buck the trend of 90% of popular literature about non-white, non-european cultures and locales being written by white europeans.

>>8847248
what?

I'm not saying it should or shouldn't. All i'm saying is that trade unionism can't be described as *identity* politics.

>>8847278
the phrase is almost only used pejoratively. also how can vegan be an identity then

>>8843471
>You only use semicolons to join two different clauses each of which would be grammatically correct as a complete sentence; when you misuse a semicolon, you look like a redditor.
I agree that semicolon misuse, an issue endemic to reddit, is incredibly irritating to read; but a semicolon preceding a conjunction that joins two independent clauses is generally considered acceptable, though somewhat archaic

>>8847290
You are not arguing with the same person who posted >>8847103

But I am that person, ask me anything. Though I might have already answered it here >>8847168

>>8847290
>>8847305

yeah sorry for the confusion.
I will add though, that many believe political organisation should only be based on temporary groups because at the end of the day the differences that separate us are only temporary (i.e. superficial - race, sex, etc.) and that we are all human first and foremost. This view is idealistic of course, but not ignoble in my opinion.

>>8847241
>What makes them colonial?

This is from the Wikipedia for postcolonialism:
>Drawing from postmodern schools of thought, postcolonial studies analyse the politics of knowledge (creation, control, and distribution) by examining the functional relations of social and political power that sustain colonialism and neocolonialism—the imperial regime's depictions (social, political, cultural) of the colonizer and of the colonized.

It's more they are neocolonial. Cultural imperialism.

>We already do that since forever

Not really. It's a relatively recent development, as in last-half-century recent. It builds on the theories of post-structuralists, post-modernists, post-Marxists, feminists, etc.

>>8847317
How does the universal standard used in mainstream literature criticism in the western world oppress minorities and the quasi-colonies of the third world though?

>>8847376
Because it's not a universal standard, it's a specific cultural standard. This is where concerns over 'lowering standards' plays its part; the fear that non-white standards are inherently lower or even non-existent, or that they aren't legitimate literature. No, just that white standards aren't definitive.

>>8847559
>non-white standards are inherently lower or even non-existent
Well, it's true ain't it?

>>8847573
No, it's a specific cultural standard.

>>8847559
>concerns over lower or non-existent standards
Well it would help if there actually were transparent non-white standards. So you could actually compare them in their rigorosity.

>>8847612
Not sure what you're saying.

>>8845155
>King of Carrot Flowers Part 1 (Cover)

lel

>>8847616
There exists one standard at the moment, the white male colonial one which is unfair against non-white-males as you say.

But there exist no other competing standards, since all standards should be abolished anyway as you said. So there is no way to actually see and compare how rigorous the evaluation is of non-white literature, since it's not judged based on a coherent standard.

Hence there is no way to answer to the concerns of people who think non-white literature gets a free pass.

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>>8847242

>A black person can't become an asian person. That's the difference.

Uh. . .guess again shitlord. Race is a social construct therefore my race is whatever I say it is.

>>8847635
Another competing colonial set of standards would be beside the point of decolonising literature.

But this question remains unanswered: what requirements are there to reduce? Text? Physical structure?

These are the things that define literature in essence. Anything else is arbitrary. Literature takes on different forms, comes from different backgrounds, has different purposes. No point comparing something to Joyce and declaring it failed literature.

>how rigorous the evaluation is of non-white literature

I don't know how you conceive of 'non-white standards' -- do you mean the standards of non-whites or standards outside of those that support white hegemony?

>non-white literature gets a free pass.

A pass where? On the market?