why were the mario chapters the best chapters?

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>>8825203

>>8825203

As long as we agree Orin's chapters were the worst. But really, I found Don or Hal's to be the best, I just found the narrative in them pretty fun.

>>8825217
it's weird I really didn't like Don. I didn't mind Orin.

>>8825217
Yeah, Orin's weren't my favorite at all. They were good when the PGOAT were involved (like the flashback to the whole dinner in Kentucky), but they were kinda dull otherwise, which is a shame because it could have been good. I have a feeling some of the stuff about him and The Moms was cut.

Actually, his first chapter wasn't bad. Sun like a sneaky keyhole to hell, the cockroaches. I liked that. And the BU flashback.

Mario's were great. So we're PGOAT's, so we're don's and Poor Tony's

>>8825203

dunno, the only ones i love from the book are from don and the ennet house. maximum comfy, and that showdown is off the wall fantastic

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>it's an underwater chapter

>>8825203

Mario is the Alyosha of the book. He's the most pure and, outward appearances notwithstanding, the most normal. He's the emotional and (with Gately) moral core of the book

>>8825561
kek fuck you

>>8825600
I agree with this

The Orin chapter about how he lied about killing to family dog was good.

>>8825203
>wahoo!
>DING DING
>Let's a-go!
>LEVEL UP
>woop woop woop
>BONUS STAGE
>Mario be cry

what did Dave mean by this?

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>it's a Steeply and Marathe chapter

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>>8825203

>It's a 30 page footnote chapter

Gave up half way through that, should I try carrying on?

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>>8826507
Idk, it's up to you. You'll never be allowed to opine on the book though because you tapped out early like a pussy

p.s. the footnotes get longer.

>>8826502
I liked Marathe a lot though

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>>8825203
>it's a wallace novel
Dont waste ya time. Read Oblivion instead.

>>8826517
That fucking gif holy shit

>>8826502
Unironicly my favorite chapters

>it's a history of ONAN chapter
super interesting t bh

requesting that DFW reaction image imgur

>>8826502
really enjoyed those 2bh

Schwarzkommando sections were my favorite to be honest senpai

gately was the best character. Hal was far too two-dimensional. yeaa i'm smart, yea i'm good at tennis. yeah there's nothing else interesting about you.

best chapters imo were when Lenz bags up the cats, when it goes through all of the things you learn in AA, obviously when Orin kills the Moms dog, eschaton (meme), hal phone call to orin when he says about "angle of incidence to the sun", Gately Abiding. Also when himself talks to gately it's very very good.

not to go all dear diary but i also really enjoyed the chapter, relatively short, where peemster tries to convince hal to take drugs again. kind of reminiscent to my, like, situation where my friends laugh in my face and call me a weirdo when I say no to going to social smoking sessions; Because when I do I get sucked into a vortex where I need to be intoxicated every second of the day or I'm miserable otherwise.

>>8827550
oh yeah and when it talks about Hal, the cool hip mask, anhedonia, masking the self incontinent of sentimentality and need.

reminds me a lot of myself also.

>Avril
What the fuck was her problem

>>8825203
I liked the ebonics

>>8827652
can't keep her legs closed lmao

>>8825203
>When you realize /lit/ has actually read Infinite Jest
>sniffs

I loved the Hal - Orin phone call, but the Hal - Mario conversations just made me feel for Mario. Truely the best kid in the book.
Also: the comfy wintermorning in the dorm of the ETA.. Accept for the one kid's forehead being ripped off.

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>>8827728
I actually read the comfy morning chapter with almost exact same conditions outside. Sitting by the fireplace with a coffee for max comfy

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>>8827728
>Accept for the one kid's forehead being ripped off.
I liked that part a lot, very spooky

>>8827728
it wasn't just his forehead it was his entire face.

disgusting

>Inner Infant
>Accomplice!
>those descriptions of depression and suicide

>>8828249
>inner infant
Oh fuck I completely repressed my memory of that chapter, what the fuck was that

>>8826598
>instead
sides, orbit, et but cetera

>>8827652
>>8827664

It turns out that 17 goes into 51 way more than 3 times (or whatever the exact ratio was, which I can't seem to find atm)

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>tfw you are like Hal

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>>8826502
I liked them. Some of the more straightforward chapters in terms of addressing themes

Did Orin get caught and interrogated by the AFR at the end?

>>8831304
Yeah but he lives. Says so in the first few pages. Nobody really knows why.

>>8831209
>"I do things like get in a taxi and say "AGAAABABGABGBWAAAGABAGAABHAHAABWA"

>>8827477
>he wasn't patrician enough to enjoy the schwarzgerät hallucinations

To be honest, I feel sorry for you senpai

>>8826502
*sniffs*

>>8825600
>the most normal

The opposite, it's Mario's anormality, that is signified through his appearance, that contrasts the normality of the people surrounding him, which are suffering under the american culture of cynisism, performance pressure and sarcasm.

>>8827550
>Hal was far too two-dimensional. yeaa i'm smart, yea i'm good at tennis. yeah there's nothing else interesting about you.
Shitty reading of Hal's character. A tip: Sometimes, after a longer passage or a chapter, or even after a sentence, stop reading and think about what you've just read. This way your judgement of characters me rise above what you've just written.

>>8826502
Didn't like these very much. All of the commentary on American life felt ve4t juvenile and forced compared to the rest of the book

any time the Peemster shows up makes it the best chapters

>>8832822
Pemulis is objectively the most based character.

>>8832822
>>8833244
double dubs confirm

btw, w2c yachting cap?

Mostly because of Browser's (sic?) character depth

>>8826502
The first chapter/corresponding end note for the ridge scenes confused the fuck out of me on my first passing. Quadruple agency was too much for my pseudy brain

>>8828249
>>8828993
The Inner Infant chapter is lowkey the key to the whole book
Consider: the Entertainment is actually just a baby's POV looking up at Joelle saying "I'm sorry" again and again

>>8831234
>Everybody has that one weird friend who was way too into M*A*S*H

...from which all communications abruptly cease

It was now, beyond any shadow of a doubt, snowing.

Kittenplan's face was a Toltec death mask.

Nobody like to think about the fact that Carol Spode had used the one exact same Wilson racket for her entire time at ETA.

"Waive something shiny in his face."

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Ok I get this whole picture except the "Too Late" red line
Was the thing the attaché watched the original cartridge?

>I'm sorry you are sad, Hal. You seem sad.

>>8834351
Hal, Gately & co. were too late to find the entertainment because Orin already had it.

>Raquel!

Steeply/marate chapters shouldve been cut

>>8831996
Describe hal's personality

>>8835551
t. pleb

>>8831992
He doesnt mean mario is the most average, he means mario is the most sane. Hes right about that and about mario being the book's alyosha.

>>8835560
Pleb? lol. They were the chapters that spoonfed you the book's themes. They're also written in an annoying "Frenchy English" style because marathe is in the scene. Not to mention michael pietsch, the guy who edited the book, agrees with me. He wanted them cut, saying they were the scenes he was least looking forward to rereading. In the end, he caved to wallaces stubborness.

Pleased to see an IJ thread with people actually fucking discussing the book for once

I feel like I need to reread the Maranthe/Steeply convos, but yeah, at first go, they are the least interesting (aside from some of the minor Ennet house denizen's episodes)

I wish I hadn't rushed through the last two hundred pages

>>8836776
they're the best of the book, by far.

>the wraith appeared

>>8835556
no z-axis

>>8835586
>Wardine was cry

>tfw you'll never read the Johnny Gentle chapters again.


so much fun

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>it's a kate gompert chapter

>>8837586
b-but muh waifu

Urine trouble?
Urine luck!

The color monitor lands on its back with its screen blinking ERROR at the white sky.

Randy Lenz did nothing wrong

It's not a lob.

why didn't Ingersoll just say he was attacking Senegal or where ever they were on the map when he directly attacked Kittenplan?

he wasn't the swiftest ship in Her Majesty's fleet in terms of like, upstairs

...a butt like two bulldogs in a bag

>>8838531
Sierra Leone. Lord explains this - the TRIGSIT listed no targets in Sierra Leone. The SSTRACs were the players and their launchers.

>>8834309
>>8834318
Man, i loved this book.
Thanks for reminding me anon.

why was one's life referred to as a "map" and why was conversing called "interfacing"?

>>8828249
Inner infant was fucking hilarious, I was laughin so hard

Hence the requirement of actual physical targeting skill that separates Eschaton from rotisserie league holocaust games

God and Satan play poker with Tarot cards for the soul of an alcoholic sandwich-bag salesman obsessed with Bernini's "The Ecstasy of Saint Therese."

I can feel one side of my face start to cook.

>>8838682
the "map" business always read like a reference to Baudrillard's Desert of the Real.

interfacing i assume to make conversation and interaction seem more mechanical

I am a bricklayer by trade. On the day of the accident, March 27, I was working alone on the roof of a new six story building. When I completed my work, I discovered that I had about 900 kg. of brick left over. Rather than laboriously carry the bricks down by hand, I decided to lower them in a barrel by using a pulley which fortunately was attached to the side of the building at the sixth floor. Securing the rope at ground level, I went up to the roof, swung the barrel out and loaded the brick into it. Then I went back to the ground and untied the rope, holding it tightly to insure a slow descent of the 900 kg of bricks. You will note in block #11 of the accident reporting form that I weigh 75 kg.

Due to my surprise at being jerked off the ground so suddenly, I lost my presence of mind and forgot to let go of the rope. Needless to say, I proceeded at a rapid rate up the side of the building. In the vicinity of the third floor I met the barrel coming down. This explains the fractured skull and the broken collar bone.

>>8838799
Slowed only slightly, I continued my rapid ascent not stopping until the fingers of my right hand were two knuckles deep into the pulleys. Fortunately, by this time, I had regained my presence of mind, and was able to hold tightly to the rope in spite of considerable pain. At approximately the same time, however, the barrel of bricks hit the ground and the bottom fell out of the barrel from the force of hitting the ground.

Devoid of the weight of the bricks, the barrel now weighed approximately 30 kg. I refer you again to my weight of 75 kg in block #11. As you could imagine, still holding the rope, I began a rather rapid descent from the pulley down the side of the building. In the vicinity of the third floor, I met the barrel coming up. This accounts for the two fractured ankles and the laceration of my legs and lower body.

The encounter with the barrel slowed me enough to lessen my impact with the brick-strewn ground below. I am sorry to report, however, that as I lay there on the bricks in considerable pain, unable to stand or move and watching the empty barrel six stories above me, I again lost my presence of mind and unfortunately let go of the rope, causing the barrel to begin a

>>8838682
because dfw was astoundingly autistic

The Moms' letter to Orin is modeled on "Letters From Mamma" or "Things Are Fine In Mt. Idy" collected as a book, written by "Charley Weaver"'s Mamma, Weaver a fictional character created and played by Clifford Arquette.

There was in fact a lethal traffic report helicopter crash which did kill a female reporter, which happened in the years prior to IJ's initial publication.

...Gately supine with his side on fire while newcomer Joelle v.D. raises her veil slightly to lick the sweat off his lids and temples, whispering to the veil flutters around and fans him, promising him a P.M. of near-terminal pleasures, undressing at the foot of the old tall bed , slowly, her loose light clothes moist with sweat and falling easily to the bare floor, and an incredible female body, an inhuman body, the sort of body Gately's only ever seen with a staple in the navel, a body like something you'd win in a raffle; and a fifth post forms on the four-poster, so to speak, which erect post's long dormant height obscures the nude newcomer's figure; and then when she moves around out of the pulsing shadow to lean in close and press her inhuman body's face right up intimately close to his, she removes the veil, and on top of this body to die for is the unveiled historical likeness of fucking Winston Churchill, complete with cigar and jowls and bulldog scowl...

>>8838836
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Dornacker

>>8825217
Orin's chapters were my favorite. Fight me.

>>8826507
if it's one of conversations between Hal and Orin you absolutely ought to read it. They're hilarious and pretty important to the story, if I recall correctly.

>>8838682
I thought map meant face

>>8839047
yes, autistic people like dfw struggle to read faces

"map" was supposed to be bostonspeak

not being from boston, idk whether it is or not

>>8839128
>DFW is autistic meme
Is this still going on?
What are you even doing on /lit/?

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>>8839586

>>8839133
i live in east Boston and, along with Southie, it's where that excruciating accent is at its worst, and i have yet hear anyone use "map" in that way

>>8838797
>>8839047
From what I remember map was slang influenced by ONANs Canada/Great Concavity related political boundary fuckery

>>8826467
This. The highlight of the footnotes in my opinion, and it totally surpassed any other slapstick elements of the work.

>>8826467
>well let's just call it a nubbins
I had a giggle

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>>8838840
>fifth post forms on the four-poster, so to speak

>>8839037
Yeah orin is pretty based desu. He probably gets the most in-depth psychological profiling in the book.

>>8837579
>>8840872
Ollster, boys: seminal, visionary. An outstanding experience. I now say things like outstanding instead of boss. But also seminal. Ollie, men, I saw something outstandingly visional and seminary yesterday. I do not refer to the football game. I normally don’t much get into football. All that grunting. Mud everywhere. Not my scene ordinarily. The most diverting single thing of the game was one of the two teams’ punters. This one slim cat with an outsized leg and slightly less outsized arm. Never saw punts I could hear before. Whoom. Blam. I ate an entire wiener stem to stern while one punt was in the air. People stood around conferring and making a racket and going to the restroom and coming back and eating concessions, all while this one cat’s punts were still in the air. What was that cat’s name again, R.T.?

>>8838799
>>8838803
Maybe this is a good time to ask : why the fuck did DFW literally put a Dubliners song in IJ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8uODpt79Ak

>>8840872
it's just dfw talking about himself. boring.

I ate this.

I read,” I say. “I study and read. I bet I’ve read everything you read. Don’t think I haven’t. I consume libraries. I wear out spines and ROM-drives. I do things like get in a taxi and say, "The library, and step on it.” My instincts concerning syntax and mechanics are better than your own, I can tell, with all due respect. But it transcends the mechanics. I’m not a machine. I feel and believe. I have opinions. Some of them are interesting. I could, if you’d let me, talk and talk

John Wayne is of the sock-and-a-shoe, sock-and-a-shoe school.

>>8842028
I was telling my girlfriend about that part of the book, and making fun of him. Later that day, I ended up doing it, and she gave me shit for quite some time.

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>it's an Orin talks to Hal over the phone chapter

SECYOTTY!

Please commit a crime.

>The field of nanomicroscopy is not yet advanced enough to measure my interest in the intricacies of O.N.A.N.ite politics.

Took the words right out of my mouth

i liked the bit where Hal is in his room doing something and bunch of his dormmates come around one-by-one and just poke their head in for a moment then leave without saying anything

>>8842347
mmmyellow.

>>8825203
Was Mario modeled after the Chaplain from Catch 22?

Lenz described the Hog as a primo example of what he called the Polish Curse, viz. undistinguished length but sobering circumference.

the Don Gately chapters and the one where that other Ennet House guy is killing the cats and dogs were the best by far

the best chapters were the ones that described JOI's films

My favorites were the chapters with JOI's dad. "Jim not that way Jim" followed by a lesson in respect for objects, the influence of Brando on subsequent generation's unstudied care, the loss and misuse of potential, etc. That chapter stuck wth me more than any. The chapter when they are fixing the bed was just hilarious as well

>>8843436
lol the nun film. so silly

>>8842681
hahaha peemster is on form in that scene

when peems imagines hitting freer on the head with a wooden club and the cartoon-style lump popping out he he

But what sent his face clear down off his skull and broke him in two, though, was he said when he saw the Pam-shiny empty biscuit pan on top of the stove and the plastic rind of the peanut butter’s safety-seal wrap on top of the wastebasket’s tall pile.

>>8825203
>tfw reading the addiction sections compulsively over and over
Uncomfortably like a mirror in some passages, and terrifyingly like a prophecy in others.

>>8843436
This all the way. I bet DFW would have been a great filmmaker... I wonder why he never tried? He probably could have got funding pretty easily given that he was such a well known name

I actually thought Lenz was JOI and JOI had faked his death until he started killing animals. Since his last name sounds like "lens" and as I recall he was described as looking like he was wearing a disguise

>>8844172
That sounds like a terribly idea honestly. His dialogue is so unnatural and so much of the action in his fiction is inside people's heads. Plus his best tricks all had to do with language and form, which simply do not translate to film.

>>8844172
i dont know, i feel like the films were supposed to be, in part, laughed at because they are terribly pretentious (though some of them did sound like they'd be worth watching if just for the novelty)

typing that out though, i wonder if i didn't miss the point in some way

>>8842028
>>8842039
YEAH. Where is that full passage? It crosses my mind almost every time I put my shoes on, because I do that and I never considered anyone would find it strange. I mean, I got my foot up on my other knee to put my sock on -- why wouldn't you just take care of the shoe while you're at it?

----the two have this bit they do on spaghetti night where McDade comes into the living room right before chow and goes 'Some of that extra-fine spay-ghetti tonight, Doonster,' and Doony Glynn goes 'Ooh, will it be all lovely and soft?' and McDade goes 'Leave your teeth at home, boy' in the voice of a Kentucky sheriff, leading Glynn to the table by the hand as if Glynn were a damaged child.

>>8843515
My favorite parts too. Being in a garage and dropping books on the floor when your dad tells you to put them down and a dust cloud comes up is so vivid in my mind

>>8844854
i found it very sad and slightly moving hearing about JOI's dad's injury.

is it just me who's finding it difficult to read other books after finishing IJ?

It's just left this bittersweet feeling... I know it isn't the greatest thing written by any means but I just don't feel like anything can compare, especially with how invested you get reading it for such a long time. Basically feels like I'm hungover, stars still whizzing around my head; dazed. Like, I tried to read Inherent Vice and it's funny and all but it just feels like a shallow body of water compared to IJ. Pretty sad about it desu.

When will this pass?

>>8844520
"You can tell the scholarship kids because for some reason they put on a sock and a shoe then a sock and a shoe."

See for instance Wayne, who’d been in their room right after lunch when Pemulis had made the decision to come up for some pre-match Tenuate. Wayne’s room was right nearby and he was standing there over Troeltsch’s pharmacopic bedside table with no shirt and wet hair, rheumy-eyed and shiny-nostriled from moisturizer on his Kleenex-chafed nostrils. The Viking was squeezing a damp tennis ball with his left hand while he scanned his forehead by mostly feel. Pemulis’s psychic counter-strategy was not to appear in any hurry to dress and stretch and get out there either. Pemulis — who feared and hated unauthorized people being in his room, and who was constantly on Schacht’s back about forgetting to lock up when he left, and who wasn’t intimidated by Wayne’s talent and success and affectless reserve, but was cautious around him, John Wayne, sort of the way a formidable predator will be unintimidated but cautious around another formidable predator, particularly since the virtuosic but tense performance in a certain administrative office a week ago, which had been mentioned by neither man — had coolly asked Wayne if he could help him, and Wayne had just as coolly not looked up from rattling through sickly Jim Troeltsch’s bedside table’s stuff and said he’d come in for some of Troeltsch’s Seldane e , which Pemulis had indeed heard Troeltsch at breakfast describing to a nose-blowing Wayne as the battlefield-nuke of anti-histamines that didn’t make you too drowsy to function at an incredibly high level of function. Pemulis adjusted his jock’s rear straps, trying to remember this Wayne-memory’s point. Wayne had wanted a clear head and high pulmonary function because he was down to play the Syrian Satelliter in an informal exhibition at 1515h. Wayne hadn’t offered this explanation; Pemulis got it off the e-board. One reason Pemulis was cautiously unassertive about Wayne’s unauthorized presence in the room was the leaflet, which given a certain office-incident it wasn’t impossible Wayne might choose to suspect seeing Pemulis’s hand in the Olde-English-fonted leaflet up at various boards and inserted on the E.T.A. TPs’ communal e-board for 11/14 announcing a joint John Wayne/Dr. Avril Incandenza arithmetic presentation to the pre-quadrivial 14-and-Unders on how 17 can actually go into 56 way more than 3.294 times. The point was that the half-dressed Wayne had been standing there with one foot bare and one in a sock and shoe. Pemulis shook his head slightly and looked down at Possalthwaite and tried to gather spit.

>>8825561
>>8825600
i dun geddit?

with fiction like this (i dont know what you'd call it: high-fiction? i dont know) like, by very intelligent people, do you not just feel like the words/sentences/stories/whole book is operating on another higher and completely different plane of meaning

like stuff about characters is there to be read and storylines etc, but i just feel that, know dave at least a little, theres NO WAY im getting anywhere CLOSE to the ideas and other stuff, like his whole MOTIVATION for writing etc

anyone else feel this way and/or know what/if youre suppose to do anything about it?

does anyone else feel like infinite jest/dfw ruined their life, or at least contributed to it?

i mean i have depression anyway, but he makes me feel like its impossible to connect with anyone ever again or at least made me aware that it was always difficult

>>8841834
can anyone clear up what time period the interview between hal and his dad happened and why his dad keeps imploring that hes not saying anything when he is?

>>8845827
JOI was a massive autist and thought Hal's relationship with him was like his relationship to his father

>>8845383
i mean, how isnt this like the hardest most exceptional writing ever

it makes my head hurt

am i just dumb

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>>8845757
you connected with him tho :)

wait a minute:

does /lit/ actually like this book? I thought we were just memeing.

>>8846534
I like individual sections

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>>8846556
This, absolutely. There were quite a few sections I regard as frivolous or that I simply did not understand due to either my own density, or Wallace's unique-yet-lovable brand of autism.

Same for The Pale King. I really didn't understand the book's plot, and it felt very disjointed. But there were some parts that I really connected with. After digesting it, I find that the parts I didn't quite get were worth dredging through to get to the parts that affected me in a deep fashion.

Four 12-year-old kids shoot up in a warehouse in the Bronx. One never does it again. Two may try it on and off for the next few years, no big deal. The fourth – well, the fourth is an addict that very day, gets the Dis-Ease. Nobody knows why. It ain’t chemistry, it ain’t personality, phobias, upbringing, ethnicity, education, poverty, depression. The Dis-Ease is in the Substance, and it’s in the person, and when the two meet, they are bonded for life.

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>>8825561
>it's an underwear chapter

>>8846616
When I finished PK and read the notes it was pretty obvious it wasn't even remotely finished. Probs like 40% done how we got it.

>>8825203
Because he's the only person in the book allowed to not be fucked up, which is something we like to believe exists.

>>8826598
oblivion is insanely good

>>8845870
>wardine be cry

>>8838682
was map not meant as like "wipe x off the map" or some kind of permutation of that? it just barely made sense that way and i haven't really seen any other more compelling theories

>>8845383
Thanks. Feel like I remembered it being a somewhat more in-depth teardown. Maybe I'm just sensitive about the topic for some bizarre reason.

>>8844934
when u read GR

>>8825203
because you self identify a lot with a retarded malformed mongoloid

>>8848232
The sock and a shoe riff above is also a foreshadow - the moment when Wayne is ransacking Troelsch's pill bottles is also the moment Wayne got a hold of the tenuate by mistake. The switch is only revealed later when Wayne goes on his rant over the PA system. Although Wayne is not directly responsible for Pemulis' ejection from ETA, the rant leads to his examination by the admin, the discovery of the 'drines, questioning of Troelsch, his making a deal to burn Pemulis, and the inquisition with De Lint, Nawangi, and the dumb guy, in which Pemulis is ejected. So there is a deep plot reason for the sock and a shoe gag.

Wayne's rant also has the fingerprints of the wraith's mind-powers on it, if you read it as sounding like the opposite of John Wayne - verbose, obsessively detailed, derisive, and dismissive. Which would imply that Himself took an active part in deciding the fate of Pemulis, perhaps because from the empowered afterlife Himself sees how much of a danger Pemulis is to his tennis academy legacy, but also how dangerous he is to Hal, with whom the dead Himself still very much wants to converse.

>>8849508
was Mario retarded? I thought he was of average intelligence, despite the child-like personality

>>8848222
I took it this way, and as a reference to the fact that ONAN wiped Quebec off the map, and it being done sort of socially permutated saying.

>>8848222
it's a borges reference. your "map" is your body and your "territory" is your mind. plays into the dualism theme