Official Christian /lit/ General

Excited to dive into Confessions once I'm done exams

How familiar with neoplatonism do I have to be to read Meister Eckhart?

>>8801623
Praise Jesus!
Pascal's Wager.

>>8801628
Pascal's Wager is a shit proposition and no Christian should take it seriously. You should be driven to Christianity by love of the Lord.

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>Anno Domini MMXVI
>Not being bread pilled

>>8801650
Agreed.

>>8801627
Nah, Eckhart is simple and easy to understand.

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This was absolute biblio.

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>>8801660

>>8801684
Feels like Scorcese's going to fuck it up, though.

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>>8801686

>>8801627
Just finished a paper on this book. Heres my advice: read something else.

I suggest his other work like The Happy Life or City of God. Or boethius if you havent read him.

>>8801686
Matthew 4:19?

>>8801623
Can I be a Christian while being redpilled (in the /pol/ way) without contradictions? Can you hate women and minorities and still be a good believer?

>>8801716
Really? Don't get me wrong, everything by Augustine is great, but the Confessions is such an interesting read. I really enjoy his expositions on the Psalms.

Late have I loved you, O beauty ever ancient, ever new.

>>8801866
Nope

>>8801866
No

>>8801874
It's also an absolutely beautiful read too.

>>8801686
I guess Paul DID spread the gospel in Turkey....

>>8801866
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, man nor woman; all are one in Jesus Christ.

If you're atheist or agnostic and interested in Catholicism I suggest reading the following.

Belief in God in an Age of Science
Surprised by Joy
Christianity for Modern Pagans
A Life of Jesus
Exploring Christian Theology
Kristin Lavransdatter

The first five are nonfiction and the last one is fiction. They're all good reads, even if you don't plan to convert at all.

>>8801866
You can be anything you want. God will solve all contradictions if you heed his call. You can hate anyone or anything as long as you love God. And you don't need to ask permission from anybody, since no man is guardian of his kingdom. You need to talk to him in your heart, not to men who pretend they know him and will happily lay down "his" law on you.

>>8801952
>You can hate anyone or anything as long as you love God.

I respectfully disagree. Jesus preached against hatred and violence.

>>8801866
No. I'm sorry, but race isn't even a category, unless you are a protestant.
>>8801623
I'll just list authors
Chesterton
Belloc
Dante
Chaucer
Endo
Greene
O'Connor
Wolfe
Tolkien
Geach
Anscombe
MacIntyre
Feser
Oderberg
Ratzinger
Kempen
Faustina Kowalska
Teresa of Avila
John of the Cross
Aquinas
Boethius
Pascal
Leibniz
De Maistre
Kirk
Augustine
Bonaventure
Scotus

>>8801952
>I've never read the Bible

>>8801959
>>8801995

I think his point is that though those initial contradictions exist, they are resolved through faith and through the pursuit of God (through God, rather than through man alone). In this, what he is saying is perfectly right.

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My diary, desu

:3

>>8801961
Maximus the Confessor is a pretty cool guy too desu senpai.

>>8802560
I haven't gotten around most early Christian writers yet

>>8802169
No he's retarded and so are you

>>8801623
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

>>8802614
It's a story of him leaving the faith, probably not the best choice.

>>8802628
JOYCE UNJOUNDED

>>8802628
It's exactly the right choice

>>8802636
For Christian literature? I disagree.

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>>8801667
>>8801623

Just started reading "This Present Darkness." Dialogue felt a little stilted at first plus parts are kinda cheesy but I'm actually really enjoying it.

>>8803354
>Have a commonsense approach to reality
That's pretty modernist thinking Anon.

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>>8803323
Furthermore, I ordered this as I've become interested in spiritual warfare and possessions/excorcicisms

>>8803437
Care to explain?

>>8803474
What people consider "common sense" is essentially relativism which isn't wholly compatible with Christian belief.

>The faith of Christ is in opposition to human reason and divine revelation not only is not useful, but is even hurtful to the perfection of man.

Is quietism still a heresy?

I think it's a comfy philosophy and wish to subscribe to it, but I ain't no heretic.

>>8801874
Eh i mean its kind of overhyped if i do say so myself. Personally I think Boethius story is much more compelling.i mean the autobiography parts of the work are interesting enough but theres always a feeling of "Im missing something" if youre reading a translation. Often in the footnotes you'll find phrases like "This part is untranslatable omg its so beautiful i wish u could read this shit, if u only u werent a pleb lel"

>>8803609
Yes.

What do you find comfy about it?

>>8801961
my boy albertus magnus getting shafted once more. Typical

>>8803765
That's because his job was recognising Aquinas

>>8801866
>Can you hate women and minorities and still be a good believer?
They've been doing it for millennia, why stop now.

>>8803354
>sincere unironic Christian
>being a /pol/tard in all but name
>accuses anyone of low IQ

>>8803580
I took Christian belief for granted.

When I said "common sense", I meant grounded political choices.

Interesting point though.

>>8804225
>>8804234

The obligatory shitposter is here to inform us all that he is too clever to believe in God.

Very good lad, you can go now.

>>8804225
Wait, what? you believe Christendom was built on "hatred" of women and minorities? Even though Mary, Mother of God; Jesus of Nazareth is kinda what the NT is about?

>>8802169

There are no contradictions in the bible. Any apparent contradiction is resolved with a greater knowledge of history, language, context, and a general understanding of literature and genre.

Is Chesterton considered Christian, even outside of the obvious choices? I just got around to reading The Man Who Was Thursday, and would love some resources for better understanding it. I felt completely lost during the philosophy of the chase.

>>8804383
Learn to read, friendo.

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>There are no contradictions in the bible.

>>8804414

Did you misunderstand that or something?

>>8804406
He's the seminal Catholic author of the century.

In any case, fedoras and polfags please fuck off, leave us in peace to talk about books.

Why don't I hear more people recommend Until We Have Faces? It's the most moving thing Lewis ever wrote.

>>8804444
Mostly because I don't really like Lewis.

>>8804472
His works are each so distinct from each other, it seems strange to categorically dislike the whole body. What have you read, and what didn't you like?

>>8804483
I've read a few Narnia ones, Mere Christianity, Screwtape letters and a few others I can't remember the names of atm. I just find him to be very mediocre in almost all aspects, especially retrospectively.

>>8804219
>I forgot him because im a pleb but no actually its because hes actually irrelevant. I am unfalliable

which bible translation should I read famalam? I go the ESV reference bible because it was free on kindle but I have NASBRE and RSVCE from my catholic childhood. Also, i can get KJV or any other older translation on project gutenberg, so just rec me some good translations.

>>8804528
King Jimmy will always be the most aesthetic.

>>8801866
Christianity is unfortunately a globalist religion, it worked great when it was contained to Europe, then it was an European religion.

But no longer...

A religion for everyone, is a religion for no one.

What is the origin of undeserved suffering?

>>8804550
The will of God.
He sends us suffering to see if we truly love him and are prepared to walk the road of justice when it is hard.

>>8804560
And if we are not?

>>8804580
Justice will be served.

>>8804589
So does God create some human beings to suffer, fail to act justly and then suffer some more?

>>8804532
RSV-2CE is unaesthetic as fuck, they completely removed the KJB shit like thou and art.

>>8804598
He doesn't create them for it, but it will happen to many yes as they will reject him. He cannot force man to love him or to be at his presence, even if he gives hundreds of opportunities to everyone throughout their lifetime.

Assuming infinite timelines, does each splintering create a new soul, or is it, as an extra universal construct, shared between bodies? And has anyone written anything good about this concept?

>>8804619
Why does God need someone so desperately to love him if he's perfect?

Moby Dick

>>8804658
He doesn't. He just wants to. He is triune so he already shares love within the three persons. >>8804629
You cannot assume infinite timelines as theology is clear on there being a beginning and the end.

>>8804658
Because one-way love is not love.

Try it, if you don't believe me.

>>8804668
So God "just wants to" be loved and therefore creates suffering?

>>8804695
God didn't create suffering, that's blatantly obvious in Genesis.

>>8804658
God isn't a Vulcan senpai.

>>8804695
He already is loved like I said.
He created beings with free will who reject him and do evil, which is the source of suffering and as his mercy is the same as his justice as he is being itself he will shine upon all souls and some will burn in it and some will be in bliss. He also partook in the suffering himself on the cross, submitting himself to be, as God, tortured and killed like a common criminal in the most degrading way.

>>8804668
I don't see how there being a beginning and end automatically dismisses infinite timelines. That they would all start from the same point is more than possible, and a simultaneous end is equally feasible.

>>8804528
Currently reading the confraternal version. Underrated translation, especially good if you want a Catholic one. The physical copies are like 5 dollars on Amazon and they're pretty comfy.

>>8804619
>people suffer because they reject God

Hmmm, not entirely sure about that.

>>8804629
>does each splintering create a new soul
No.

The soul cannot be penetrated or divided.

I'm curious. Do the Christians in the thread actually believe that the Bible is literally true(as in it conforms with both physical and metaphysical reality), or do you believe the Bible speaks of truth in action?

>>8805467
The Bible is inerrant, however, this is the case only when the Bible is properly understood, interpreted by the Church.

>>8805503
So, you believe then that a story like Cain and Abel literally happened some time in history, or do you think the meaning of the story is the point, or both perhaps?

>>8805513
Yes, both.

"According to ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses.

The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith; The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny."

>>8805503
I agree with this, up until the last 4 words being as I'm Protestant
I believe its open to personal interpretation.

>>8801961
>race isn't even a category, unless you are a protestant.
what?

>>8805552
You're given a lot of wiggle room for personal interpretation in Catholicism for the most part but there's a limit, you can't really be catholic and not believe in transubstantiation for instance.

>>8805578
that goes for all denominations, like you can't be a baptist and believe in infant baptism
the biggest line though, is that Protestants can differ in certain beliefs and still consider each other true saved Christians, but Catholics will consider you a heretic if you reject transubstantiation or papal infallibility or mass etc.

>>8801628
Stop polishing your katana and read some Russian lit.

>>8805541
>one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual

So, this could mean that the Church can consider a lot of the stories in the Bible to not have literally taken place, but stories imbued with divine meaning regardless?

>>8805662
Sure, if the "Church" is in heresy.

>>8805682
But you just said you could distinguish between two senses of Scripture, literal and spiritual.

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>>8801866
>Can you hate women and minorities and still be a good believer?
Leftypol pls, no Christian nor /pol/ack would ever say such a thing.

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Best American Christian writers of the 20th century?

>>8804545
>Christianity is unfortunately a globalist religion, it worked great when it was contained to Europe, then it was an European religion.
>But no longer...
This is the kind of idiot that posts desu vult shit and dreams of animu like crusading without knowing what that was all about.

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>>8806169
Flan Flan

>>8804545
>Christianity is unfortunately a globalist religion, it worked great when it was contained to Europe

>Palestine is in Europe

do u guys like alvin plantinga?

>>8806417
>Warranted Christian Belief is a book written by Alvin Plantinga and published in 2000 (Oxford University Press). It constitutes, after Warrant: The Current Debate and Warrant and proper function, both published in 1993, the last part of his trilogy on epistemology.

>In this book, Plantinga wants first to show that it is rational to accept Christian belief. Plantinga also proposes, with what he calls "the Aquinas/Calvin Model", an "account of the way in which Christian belief is, in fact, justified, rational and warranted".

Interesting... I'm curious how he goes about his argument.

>>8801627
Lol this is a meme right? I can't be truly one of many actual Christian /lit/izens? It would disintegrate this board's pseudo-state if people actually BELIEVED something.

The Confessions are AMAZING

>>8806450
You aren't special, sorry.

>>8806489
:P Not about that, friend. Just astonished that this is actually looking like a real movement on the board.

>>8806417
No

>>8804717
Is it? What about this bit here in Genesis 3:


16 To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”
17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”


How is that him not willfuly creating suffering?

>>8804735

Well, you say that. Then again, wouldn't you say that God acts sometimes fairly autistic throughout Old Testament?

>>8806450
Cradle Catholic here, been lurking lit for around 6 years :}

>>8806686
>God
>acts autistic

Lad....

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What if...

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>>8808048

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>>8801660
>No San Juaz de la Cruz's Cantico espiritual.
Did you want to make me sad?

Is a multicultural society compatible with christianity? The whole point of the old testament is about Israelites to have their own nation and God's punishments were usually foreing invasions. But then again Christ message is universal. But this doesn't really mean that different cultures need to live together but that all humans are equal to God.

>>8808398
>Is a multicultural society compatible with christianity?
No. Not even a liberal society is.
>he whole point of the old testament is about Israelites to have their own nation and God's punishments were usually foreing invasions. But then again Christ message is universal. But this doesn't really mean that different cultures need to live together but that all humans are equal to God.
It means that all cultures should become Christian.
Blacks who are Christian are equally Christian to whites and to Asians. Race is not a category of it really.

>>8808469
What should be the role of the church on the state then? Is a theocracy the only compatible form of goverment from a purely theological perspective?

>>8808641
No, a theocracy isn't even wanted, the ideal is a state which is led by devout men knowing the goal of life is life eternal.
Try Whose Justice Which Rationally by MacIntyre.

>>8808657
>Try Whose Justice Which Rationally by MacIntyre.
Ok thank you. I am just starting to get interested in christianity. I really appreciate your help

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Reading this now. These dudes were brilliant and really strike to the core of Christianity.

>>8804528
ESV is probably my favourite. NRSV is good too.

>>8808783
The based cardinal seems to like them a lot.
>>8808771
Just keep in mind that it isn't the easiest text, I'm not sure how hard it would be to someone completely new to philosophy.

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>>8808783

10. In Egypt once when Poemen was going somewhere he saw a woman sitting by a grave and weeping bitterly. He said, ‘If all the delights of this world should come to her, they would not bring her out of sorrow. Just so should the monk always be weeping in his heart.’

11. Another time, he went with Anub to the country of Diolcos. Walking past the tombs they saw a woman beating her breast and weeping bitterly. They paused to see her. When they had gone a little further, they met a man and Poemen asked him, ‘What is the matter with the woman over there, that she weeps so bitterly?’ He said, ‘Her husband is dead, and her son, and her brother.’ Poemen said to Anub, ‘I tell you that unless a man mortifies all his self-will and has this kind of grief, he cannot be a monk. The whole life and attention of that woman is wrapped up in grief.’

>>8808783

No offence but what do ancient Egyptian neets have to teach me that I can't learn from Saint Elliot.

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>>8809057
‘Go and sit in your cell, and your cell will teach you everything’

But really, I don't know. They are nice to read.

>>8809081

That only works if you've been called m8.
Most people would be driven mad by that kind of isolation.

>>8809097
>That only works if you've been called

That's not true, and that's not what he meant. I do think it would drive you crazy though.

At some point or other every Christian should read The Lord of the Rings.

>>8801623
>>>/his/

Christposting is for his

>>8809203
Ive never read the trilogy nor am I Christian. I watched the movies as a kid like 10+ years ago and did not take away any explicit Christian message.

So my question(s) is, what are the Christian themes in LOTR? If I read it, what should I be on the look out for? Should I read the Bible first or something? Why should Christians read LOTR?

>>8809264
There's a lot of articles online about it, google it. It's a popular topics to a lot of authors have written on it and they are usually very interesting and will be far better than posts here.

>>8809270
I suppose I could have done that but I wanted to hear your personal opinion considering this is a discussion board after all.

Ill take a look. Ive been becoming interested in Christianity after reading Dostoevsky and O'Connor recently, LOTR is on the radar.

>>8809301
I read Lotr a long time ago, I wasn't the poster you replied to. Check out Chesterton, Solzhenitsyn and Shusaku Endo too. If you will enjoy Lotr Gene Wolfe will be a great after him.

>>8809301

Skip Tolkien unless you're one of those tabletop twenty sided dice faggots and go straight to Chesterton and Belloc.

Post your favorite excerpts of Paradise Lost.

>>8805467
I'm /bible as literature/ camp desu.

>>8809447
You first.

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>>8809057
Anon I have to admit, I genuinely just googled "saint elliot" and then it hit me 3 seconds later.