Was egoism the last spook he couldn't overcome?

>>8783140
Spook is a derogatory term

>>8783140
Its logically impossible for egoism to be a spook

>spooks
>the ego
>the self

Pleb!

>>8783140
He did overcome it, read the book.

http://blog.talkingphilosophy.com/?p=7263

>>8784554
I was about to agree with you, but is it really impossible? Surely one could act egoistically for the sake of it at the expense of the self due to the repercussions. Risky adultery against someone you truly love who would desert you if she found out, for an arbitrary example. Am I missing something? Would you argue that cheating isn't egoism in this instance?

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>>8784782
>Risky adultery against someone you truly love who would desert you if she found out, for an arbitrary example

Is loosing someone you love really in your best interest though?

The issue I see you identifying here is the great difficulty that exists when it comes to identifying and acting in ones best interest, particularity when it comes to short term and long term interests.

>Am I missing something? Would you argue that cheating isn't egoism in this instance?

No, as the cheating is not something that is being held above self interest. The person in your instance cheats because they think they will get away with it and having extra sex and a loving partner is their best interest.

Now, if that person cheated because he thought that's what an "Alpha" would do then it would be spooky as he is holding the interest of the "Alpha" idea above himself.

So you see in one case its an egoist calculation the other is the appeasement of some separate and foreign idea.

AKA How to lose friends and become poor and lonely

>>8785106
>Now, if that person cheated because he thought that's what an "Alpha" would do then it would be spooky as he is holding the interest of the "Alpha" idea above himself.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. He would be cheating precisely because he identifies as an egoist, thus cheats because the extra sex appeals to him, and thinks he can get away with it. It's imperative that his identification as an egoist led him to risk cheating, otherwise it wouldn't be a spook. Replace "Alpha" with "egoist" and all of a sudden it becomes spooky, right? Or does the fact that taking the risk in favor of his perceived best interest preclude it from being a spook?

>>8783140
Egotism is a spook but the Ego itself is not

>>8785232
how is the ego not a spook?

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>>8785222
>Or does the fact that taking the risk in favor of his perceived best interest preclude it from being a spook?

Yes, as once it ceases to be about ones own interest you get into spook territory.

>Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. He would be cheating precisely because he identifies as an egoist, thus cheats because the extra sex appeals to him, and thinks he can get away with it. It's imperative that his identification as an egoist led him to risk cheating, otherwise it wouldn't be a spook. Replace "Alpha" with "egoist" and all of a sudden it becomes spooky, right?

I can definitely see where you are coming from here and I think a great deal of self described egoists fall into the pit you have identified.

Far from being egoism their ideology places the same restriction as any other hence the only way to "act in your interest" is to become an antisocial mini Ayn Rand, ruggard individual, the Machiavellian prince ect.

Their ideology cannot conceive of a person who genuinely embraces collectivism or other such concepts out of fulfillment of their own self interest.

>>8785252
If you actually even knew what a spook was you wouldn't ask that question

>>8785277
Thanks for this. A while ago I became enraptured in Stirner's book and I've since decided to become a voluntary egoist. In the pace of everyday life I find myself arbitrarily making snap decisions in favor of egoism, or spooks such as morality and politeness if I don't catch myself out in time (I find it curious how much more likable to others you become when you act totally in self interest, as an aside, it seems counter-intuitive.) Anyway on occasion I wonder if the conscious, almost dogmatic act of egoism itself is against my best interest. Short of carrying around a calculator and drawing decision trees with assigned probabilities, I think my evaluations are a good nash equilibrium between societies expectations and my personal pleasure. I think I like being kind to people enough not to become a mini Ayn, something her philosophies' spirit seems to preclude.

>>8785366
>I find it curious how much more likable to others you become when you act totally in self interest, as an aside, it seems counter-intuitive.
Because people support what they want, and they don't want someone who's excessively subservient and preaching, because it burdens them into being the same way; they want someone who'll live for themself because it both takes responsibility off of them and they want to be like those people. If you couple that with benefitting them, the result is that they will attached to that person without regret or obligation.

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>>8785366
>I find it curious how much more likable to others you become when you act totally in self interest, as an aside, it seems counter-intuitive.)

Its funny but Stirner's ethics could accurately be expressed as "be yourself"

>Anyway on occasion I wonder if the conscious, almost dogmatic act of egoism itself is against my best interest. Short of carrying around a calculator and drawing decision trees with assigned probabilities, I think my evaluations are a good nash equilibrium between societies expectations and my personal pleasure. I think I like being kind to people enough not to become a mini Ayn, something her philosophies' spirit seems to preclude.

Something to remember here is that you have started this new approach to life and that youve been buried under spooks since child hood so it makes sense its difficult to understand your unique interests.

Just think of it like driving car, initially it takes a lot of mental effort just to maintain a consistent speed and not veer out of your lane but with time becomes second nature.

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>>8785736
>Just think of it like driving car, initially it takes a lot of mental effort just to maintain a consistent speed and not veer out of your lane but with time becomes second nature.

Exactly what it feels like. I had the fortune of being spooked by utilitarianism, beforehand, so the precise faculty I need to make good egoist decisions is already well-ingrained, it just needs re-calibrating.

I was half expecting to be laughed at and greentexted for falling for the Stirner meme, I'm pleasantly surprised by this response.

>>8785704
Nice insight. I lived with 2 STEMspergs for the last 3 years, subservient and preaching exactly defined the zeitgeist of our home. I wish I still lived with them. They would be my willing slaves, and I their loving master.

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>>8785764
>Exactly what it feels like. I had the fortune of being spooked by utilitarianism, beforehand, so the precise faculty I need to make good egoist decisions is already well-ingrained, it just needs re-calibrating.

Yeah, its effectively a from of cognitive behavior therapy you end up practicing.

>I was half expecting to be laughed at and greentexted for falling for the Stirner meme, I'm pleasantly surprised by this response.

Glad to help, like any meme author whilst the bulk will be shitposts/threads there are people who are genuinely interested in them

>>8785110
Well the wrongful understanding of egoism as a rational or methodology to obtain property rather than to act in self-interest is a spook. It is probably not in your self interest to lose friends and become poor and lonely, so any actions leading to that would be false reciprocal egoism. It would be using egoism to attain the goal of becoming an egoist instead of being a true egoist who only acts in their self interest.

>>8783140
Only one spook remained. Two, if you count God.

How does an unspooked ego live differently than a ''spooked out'' someone like me?
I feel like there'hardly any difference, you just gain a sense up superiority from it

>>8784554
Stirner discusses how egoism can become a spook when degenerates into an ethics accompanied by fixed ideas of self and self-interest that one feels duty-bound to. But that is not the egoism Stirner enacts.

>>8786290
Superiority for what? The spooked existence is infinitely harder than the unspooked. Being spooked is like walking around lugging a set of metaphysical weights. The unspooked unique one is inclined to find it absurd and comical, sure, but I wouldn't go as far as to say there's a sense of superiority.

The difference is hard to qualify. If you can't intuit the sense of freedom and satisfaction of what life would be like acting on your best interest without feeling bound by morals and dogmas I can only describe it poetically, as I did before. It's the difference between being weighted down and being free.

>>8783140
>misunderstanding spook this bad
egoism can be a spook ala ayn rand, it doesn't mean it is a spook.

>>8786315

But everyone who reads Stirner is still bound by morals, since it's in their self-interest not to be regarded as giant dicks by everyone, no?

>>8786346
not that guy but.
>But everyone who reads Stirner is still bound by morals
no?
>not to be regarded as giant dicks by everyone
they would only care to not be regarded as a giant dick by the people they don't want to be regarded as a giant dick by. the people they like, they people they don't want to be a dick to.

>>8786346
That depends on the person. A sociopath may choose to manipulate others because it's in their best interest while a moral person may not because they would be hurt by it,

>>8786355
Uh oh, better not manipulate people for personal gain because that makes me a sociopath.

Oh wait, that's a spook. Have fun being tread on throughout your life and working at McDonalds generating thousands of dollars worth of burgers an hour for your 7 dollars. Oh, shit, your society is based on institutionalized "sociopathy," isn't it? At least the egoist is conscious of it and manipulates at their discretion.

>>8786387
not that guy but i think ayn rand is more suited to you.

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>>8786393
To rule out manipulation of others for self interest on the grounds of morality is to be spooked. I like people as a rule of thumb, so Ayn Rand is not for me. Would I manipulate someone I like? Probably not if it harmed them, it's no longer in my self interest. A perfect stranger that rubbed me the wrong way? In a heartbeat.

is stirner worth reading, or is he just a meme

>>8786416
worth reading. Reading Stirner is what L Ron Hubbard claimed Dianetics to be.

>>8786405
lol you sound like a fucking sperg and the reason why people can't see the difference between rand and stirner.

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>>8786422
You're either spooked by morality or assuming this nebulous manipulation scenario to be something more nefarious than I am. Either way you're a tool.

>>8786444
do you not see how you talk like every other generic sperg with or without stirner? you evidently have no friends and your pride and enthusiasm in your intent to manipulate others (because you're afraid) just shows how spooked you really are.

>>8786284
Holy... I want more...

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people who believe in ego are people who believe that their opinions, their feelings and what they experience matters, without even being able to say why.

>>8786457
>feelings and experience don't matter
spooked so fucking bad.

>>8786420
Perfectly summorizes /lit/

not just the ego but also keeping anything in materialism. hegel, not even once.

>>8787999
what did he mean by this?

>>8786457
>jibe

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>>8786457

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>>8788062

Maybe she is a sailor as well as a slut.

>>8786457
The truly spooked are those who believe that their opinions, their feelings and what they experience don't matter, simply because they aren't able to say why.