/gg/ Greeks General

>>8773361
>proceed to pretend like you understand them

I get it is a joke, but understanding context of the Greek writers, particularly philosophers makes understanding them quite straightforward; one therefore while reading Greek literature needs to have a moderate understanding of Greek vocabulary, history and culture, which by itself can take years.

>>8773388
This is nonsense, one can easily get a sense of the topography of Greek thought in a few years but understanding Plato, Aristotle, and Homer is anything but straightforward. If you think you've figured it out, you haven't.

I'm dragging through Plato's Cratylus dialogue and I'm almost finished, but it is honestly the least interesting one I have yet to read. Any thoughts on it? Insight? I wait until I finish to read up on it, but are most of the proposed etymology jokes? It seems so silly that I can't help but wonder if Plato was either just using them humorously as examples or outright mocking the manner that Socrates would examine things

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>>8773400
I should clarify, by context I mean reading extensive commentary, supplementary works, and being introduced to material preferably in a class. You're right, I don't know why I phrased it that way, I mean more that after studying the context of Plato's philosophical dialogues, what the argument is and the history of it, one can fairly see the point of view of the characters of the dialogue.

>>8773439
you have to be retarded not to be able to just read a raw text and understand it for what it is. its easy enough to parse out cultural attitudes and earnestly held beliefs. you dont need context... at all.

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I'm reading about Leucippus and Democritus. Also watching some videos online about Greek History good luck you guys keep studying!

>>8773468
Either you're kidding or an idiot, if one were to read Plato in such a way they could never have more than a superficial understanding of the arguments presented. Plato is writing for an audience of his contemporaries, who not only speak a completely different language than you but also belong to a very different culture. When any concept is bandied about, Kalos, Eros, Sophrosyne, Andreia, etc. it does not function as a 1:1 translation into perspective English terms, each has an implication to perceived Greek audience that may be discussed in multiple ways within the dialogue. That is just with vocabulary and concepts pertaining to it, if one did not understand anything of Greek culture before that, such as the attitudes and arguments of the Pre-Socratics, and then the proceeding attitudes of the Sophists, one would not understand Plato's place in the argument and as a result would not understand what any of the writings truly meant.

What you're saying is essentially the same as someone reading the KJV of the Bible and taking everything at face value and ignoring its philosophical context and historical precedents. John 1:1, for example, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." You're telling me that someone without knowing the actual Koine Greek statement, and without knowing the depth behind the history of "the Word" (Logos), is going to understand what the passage means?

>>8773416
Reading Plato too. Just finished Gorgias last night, was my favorite dialogue so far. They aren't particularly difficult to follow and actually quite fun to read, but I am starting to feel a bit burned out on them and will take a pause just before Republic. I will definitely need to pursue a different tactic with Aristotle

>>8773509
The comparison is bad, because the implicit lyricism/metaphorical approach of the Bible cannot be found in the Dialogues. When they do take deeper meanings, they do so explicitly. But you are right that many things are missed if not reading the Pre-Socratics or at least have a basic introduction as to what Plato was all about.
>>8773468
was just being a dick I think.

>>8773416
You're on the right track. I won't "spoil" it, but once you see the ending (literally final 3-5 pages) you'll see exactly what was going on the whole time. You might not agree that it was worth the trek, but there IS a point.

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>>8773361
>translating Sophocles
>find a word I can't just figure out by context or etymology
>look it up in my handy-dandy Greek-English lexicon
>source of the definition is Sophocles

>>8773590
That's actually pretty funny, and sounds like a rewarding experience.

You'll probably never forget that word, its origin, or how you learned either of those.

>>8773416
There is a Cambride University Press commentary on it, but I haven't read it yet.

>>8774135
lol, it's 100+ USD for Cratylus alone, they all seem to be going for that much. Even the ebooks

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δαιμόνι' ἀτρέμας ἧσο kαὶ ἄλλων μῦθον ἄkουε,
οἳ σέο φέρτεροί εἰσι, σὺ δ' ἀπτόλεμος kαὶ ἄναλkις
οὔτέ ποτ' ἐν πολέμῳ ἐναρίθμιος οὔτ' ἐνὶ βουλῇ:
οὐ μέν πως πάντες βασιλεύσομεν ἐνθάδ' Ἀχαιοί:
οὐk ἀγαθὸν πολυkοιρανίη: εἷς kοίρανος ἔστω,
εἷς βασιλεύς, ᾧ δῶkε Κρόνου πάϊς ἀγkυλομήτεω
σkῆπτρόν τ' ἠδὲ θέμιστας, ἵνά σφισι βουλεύῃσι.

(B 200-206)

Democrats BTFO

>Greeks
>Democrats

top fucking kek mate

>rule by the many

You're having a laugh

>>8776641

Forgot to give a translation

"Sit still you idiot and listen to the commands of those who are stronger than you; you are a coward, unwarlike, of no account in battle or counsel: for not all the Achaeans will hold counsel here: rule by the many is not Good (agathos): let there be one commander, one king, to whom the son of crooked-minded Cronus gave the scepter and the [authority to give] decisions, to rule them [sic, not strictly grammatical in Greek either].