the great debate

>>8692469
Oranges, apples, or both

>>8692469
Woolf

Left: autist
Right: genius

>>8692469
Thomas Mann is top modernist all others trash

>>8692469
wow proust looks similar to kafka

>>8692643
+1

>>8692643
>>8692662
You are all so wrong. Joyce is the greatest novelist of all time.
>>8692673
>Thomas Mann
almost offensive, Kafka is the greatest German (language) modernist

>>8692691
u r blind

>>8692716
>the greatest novelist of all time

one great novel and a bildungsroman doesn't a "greatest novelist of all time" make

he doesnt even make the top 10

>>8692718
yeah my glasses are broken for a while

>>8692691
Very anti-semitic post. You should be ashamed.

Left: fart connoisseur

Right: complete dilettante

>>8692742
I was seriously though
I can't be anti semitic because I'm jew myself

>>8692737
His Bildungsroman (why the distinction? roman means novel) is actually great as well, and Ulysses is the greatest novel of all time. I'd rather read one masterpiece than ten very good works. Also, please name 10 novelist better than him, I'm genuinely curious.

Honestly senpai I'd say they're roughly equal within their respective languages.

>>8692760
Are you a secular jew or a jewy jew?

>>8692469
How come Prousts most famous excerpt is about eating a crumpet? Joyce wrote about cosmic, philosophical mysterious poetics vs. day dreaming about sensually eating a muffin cookie

>>8692643
No. As someone that has read everything Woolf has written, I can assure you that Proust is better.

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>>8692811
Bait or

>>8692811
Oh m8. If you've read the work, you wouldn't ask such a silly question.

Also, how come Joyce's most famous excerpt is about smelling farts?

>>8692811
farts vs eating a cookie

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>>8692767
There only needs to be one novelist better than him.

And its inarguably this man, who's not only the greatest novelist of all time, but the greatest artistic power since Homer

>>8692829
You didn't post ten. And the greatest artistic power since "Homer" is definitely not a writer.

>>8692833
I didn't post ten because I think Joyce is the second greatest novelist of all time. Tolstoy is just incomparably better than everyone else.

>>8692840
Dostoevsky is better.
>inb4 muh Nabokov

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>>8692469
Proust wrote a novel

Joyce finished the novel

>>8692716
>Joyce is the greatest novelist of all time
he only wrote one novel comparable to the greats and it's an ostentatious mess compared to more focused and insightful works.

He wrote one genuine masterpiece and that repaints the rest of his small ouvre retrospectively because they were written by a master, not because they are masterful writing. His entire career is grounded on Ulysses.

He's like the Irish Melville.

>>8692864
You don't add anything to your bibliography by pumping shit out like Marvel studios. An author should always be measured by his best work

>>8692643
>>8692695
Your'e fucking underages, get out of here!

>>8692469
>>8692643
Faulkner

>>8692469
Proust.

>>8692469
>Great debate

Lol.

>>8692872
>You don't add anything to your bibliography by pumping shit out like Marvel studios
Is that what you consider the ouvres of Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Faulkner, Woolf, Eliot, Conrad, Kafka, and Proust? They're comparable to a comic publisher because they're novelists that actually wrote novels?
>An author should always be measured by his best work
Is that how you justify only writing one great work?
What's Tolstoy's greatest work? Woolf's? Conrad's?
Joyce's is only obvious because there's nothing else to choose.

>>8692760
Both were jews.

>>8692931
Yes, its a sign of a writer with a visionary genius that he's able to express what needs to be expressed in a single work.

>>8692469
>in search of lost time
>Found it...reading your book

>>8692933
no shit

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We all know which of the two David Foster Wallace would pick

just saying...

>>8692940
literal sophistry.

>>8692767
I only know 9:
Cervantes
Proust
Richardson
Tolstoy
Flaubert
Dostoievsky
Austen
Eliot
Defoe

>>8692859
Tolstoy captures life in his novels, Dostoevsky does not

>>8692952
The mother of Proust was jew.

>>8692963
Proust. he said ulysses "didnt make my heart beat fast."

>>8692991
He meant that in a good way, keep up

>>8692940
>its a sign of a writer with a visionary genius that he's able to express what needs to be expressed in a single work.
>god only making Adam

>>8692978
Dostoievsky do it in the streets like Dickens. Also her dramatic moments are very intense and good.

>>8692998
Adam = Ulysses
Eve = Finnegans Wake

>>8692973
Maybe Stendhal.

>>8692997
No he didnt, you clearly didnt hear the interview

>>8693028
No you clearly just don't comprehend Wallace. There are books that are there to stir and those that still

>>8693036
Nice effort, but youre wrong

>>8692673

he's barely even "modernist" except in his short stories and novellas, and even then it's all pretty artificial

>>8692737
FW
FW
FW
!!

>>8692826

imagine if they were combined into one author and wrote the best novel ever period:

> best quote is about farting on cookies

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proust is literally just an early knausgard

>>8692931
>conrad
>good

>>8692469
Apparently they met once and shared a cab.
They talked about bowties and Joyce encouraged Proust to wear his hair in a way that became his notable style

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>>8693101
Exactly

Modernism a shit. Neo-realism now

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>>8693117

>>8693126
There are so many versions of the Proust-meets-Joyce story. My favourite is the one where they haven't read each other and have to awkwardly admit it to the other's face at a party. There's also the one where they bonded over talking about their illnesses and digestive problems

Proust is like a super computer with a soul, Joyce is like a soul with a super computer, or the other way around or something

>>8692978

haha

>>8692931
>Kafka
He wrote three novels (like Joyce) and didn't finish any of them (Joyce finished all his novels). He is a fantastic writer, but his oeuvre is very comparable to Joyce's.

>>8692767
>>8692973
Uhhh how about fucking Henry James, the greatest novelist of all time?

>>8692931
Yep. Finnegans Wake is obviously Joyce's best.

>>8692973
>Cervantes, Proust, Tolstoy, Flaubert
maybe
>Dostoevsky, Eliot
probably not
>Richardson, Austen, Defoe
absolutely not

>>8693168
Wanna know how I can tell you're American?

>>8693183
He was English.

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>>8693183
>caring about non-American opinions

>>8693168
fuck off

>>8693006
Only good post ever made on 4chan.

>>8693202
I feel guilty, I must admit i am the proprietor of this selfag

>>8693216
>>8693202
no wories my man it was a goood postt

Hmmm irish fartsniffer or french guy

Irish fartman wrote a sentence a day and then got so bored laboring over pretty sentences that he wrote a whole book of language jokes and puns

French guy lay in bed all day and was a manchild and was literally french and wrote about biscuits and coffee.

The graet debate

>>8693216
>>8693236

I would like to dispel the fiction that this was a samefag. The man or woman I quoted made the only valuable critical statement, and indeed the only valuable statement of any kind, ever to have appeared on this garbage heap, and made it in a succinct and compelling way, which is most suitable given the inherent telegrammatic limitations of the site. We should all feel guilty that we cannot live up to the example.

It is the craftsman in Joyce that is progressive; but the man has not moved since his early days in Dublin. He is on the side a ‘young man’ in some way embalmed. His technical adventures do not, apparently, stimulate him to think. On the contrary, what he thinks seems to be of a conventional and fixed order, as though perhaps not to embarrass the neighbouring evolution of his highly progressive and eclectic craftsmanship.

So he collected like a cistern in his youth the last stagnant pumpings of victorian anglo-irish life. This he held stead-fastly intact for fifteen years or more—then when he was ripe, as it were, he discharged it, in a dense mass, to his eternal glory. That was Ulysses. Had the twenty-year-old Joyce of the Dubliners not remained almost miraculously intact, we should never have witnessed this peculiar spectacle.

That is, I believe, the true account of how this creative event occurred with Joyce; and, if that is so, it will be evident that we are in the presence of a very different phenomenon from proust. Proust returned to the temps perdu. Joyce never left them. He discharged it as freshly as though the time he wrote about were still present, because it was his present. It rolled out with all the aplomb and vivacity of a contemporary experience, assisted in its slick discharge by the latest technical devices.

Joyce was a regional writer

Good but not universal top tier

>>8693168
Henry James is worse that Joyce and Austen.

>>8693323
I don't think so, but they're both nearly as good. Henry James perhaps only beats them in sheer quantity.

>>8692829

Homer wasn't one dude, dude.

>>8692897

Seconded. Not even American, but Faulkner is the only novelist who rivals Shakespeare in his grasp and revelation of the human condition.

I've read two works of Faulkner's that equal Ulysses, Joyce's best work.

>>8693425
whats the human condiiton?

isnt it just posting?

>it's a /lit/ doesn't like Jane Austen because she's a woman episode

>>8692469
this is a joke. proust wins.

>>8693438
Nabokov was right before he changed his mind.

>>8693453
Thats just the set up, Joyce winning is the punchline

>>8693266
I already saw you Pynchon. Your'e the only good posted here.

>>8693738
please learn how to use google

>>8692861

Why did we continue posting after this anon?

>>8693202

Aye

>>8692469
>ITT: idiots discussing literature they probably haven't even read

>>8695066
you mean ITBoard

>>8693139
>digestive problems
This sounds plausible.

>>8693006
>Riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.
woah

>>8695066
>ITPost: meanie anon makes me feel like a pseud

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I was saying "Prouuust".

>>8692469
>asking this in an anglo board

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>>8692469

>>8692469
Joyce is for people that want to feel smart. Proust is for people that want to experience beauty.

>>8693286
I think the case could be made for exactly the opposite.

Joyce was more international than Proust in almost every respect; he spoke more languages, lived more thoroughly abroad, and drew on a greater variety and depth of language and literature when composing his works.

Proust was thoroughly Parisian/French Provincial and only international to the extent that the Paris of his time was the heart of international life. Joyce had the ability to invest Dublin with meaning well beyond its natural possession.

>>8696046
You call B.O. litteræ beautiful?

>>8696046
Joyce is for people who want to experience beauty. Proust is for people who want to experience the neuroses of some wealthy French fag.