Anyone read this yet? Seems like it could be some extreme red

>>8669262
From what I've seen on /lit/ there's a lot of argument about whether it's meant to be pro- or anti-Islam, so at least it seems like there's some degree of ambiguity or balance

>>8669266
Seems promising. I really would like it to even try to be balanced, but I just don't think I'd like to hear a dyostopian novel about Muslims by the classic french goblin himself.

The book isn't pro or anti-islam, it's a fundamental criticism of the european way of life, in the absence of a mobilizing spirituality that serves a social function (christianity no longer can do this, the central experience of the book is that the attempted conversion towards christianity of the main character failed, while in the end it is pretty much implied that he converts to islam, not out of conviction but merely out of comformity). Houellebecq states, in his fiction and outside, that Islam both mobilizes and functions socially and is thus superior to the decadent european way. He's no pro-islam, he's not anti (not anymore), but his focus lies on the european way of living.

Sadly i haven't found an english translation of this, but this is a great speech he held: http://www.nzz.ch/feuilleton/zeitgeschehen/michel-houellebecq-europa-steht-vor-dem-selbstmord-ld.118845

>>8669279
Wow, that's more than what I was hoping for. Very eager to read this now.

>>8669287
Just be prepared for the houellebecqian focus on the banality and mediocrity of both live and people.

>>8669266

It's not ambiguity. Francois is weak, and Houellebecq is calling out the West for being weak, for having allowed all that weakness to gain power which is why we are submitting to a stronger ideology. The book is not about Islam but about the West, in that way it is against Islam because this religion is not part of the West, which is why we are having this discussion in the first place. The only reason Francois submits is because he yearns for a return to the "patriarchal" society -- he's only converts in the end once he meets the president of the Sorbonne and his teenage wives: he is jealous. He can't convert like Huysmans to Catholicism because it doesn't hold the appeal anymore (no patriarchy, no traditional family) -- and if you look at the current pope it has become subverted by "egalitarian" movements (Liberation theology) which is just what /pol/ would call "cultural Marxism," in that it weakens the state and the promotion of its people. This is all gone, and that's why in the first fifty pages he refers a few times to our shrinking birth rates, the misery of single women, and everything that has led up to that.

>>8669279
>>8669305
this and this, wish the book was written better though

>>8669305
Your post is superior to mine, but i want to point out that his failure of conversion, at the face of the statue (iirc) in the church is one of spirituality, and not of rationality. On a social level Houellebecq argues on a rational level, but his characters failure is one of absence of spirituality.

>>8669318
Having read it in french, to observe if maybe the "flatness" of the prose is a result of the translation, i have to say that Houellebecq suffers from being translated. His language is of course, dry, depressing and so on, but it has great style in french (imo)

And then there's this guy
>>8669276

I liked the vulgar fuck scenes

>>8669451
you should read more of Houellbecq then.

>>8669457
In seriousness, I liked the book as a whole. Is the rest of his work as graphically sexual?

>>8669472
I have read only one of his books, but from that and from what else I hear he is a pervy old man.

>>8669262
I read it. It revolves around an indifferent intellectual as islam sweeps in. Worth the read.

>>8669279
I haven't read the book, so my opinion is probably worthless here, but this seems to match what I got out of the reviews of the book I saw. The premise, from my understanding, is that the FN may win the 2022 elections, so the left-wing parties ally with a Muslim Brotherhood-esque French party to prevent an FN victory, and the majority of French people go along with it because they find voting for the FN "distasteful". Houellebecq seems to be pro-"European culture", in the sense of the Enlightenment and the values of the French Revolution, but criticizes the modern Frenchman as vapid and self-absorbed. As such, he is willing to submit to Islamic reforms out of expedience rather than stand up for the European traditions of Christianity and the Enlightenment, because in modern Europe those traditions have at this point degraded into a very raw individualism preventing any kind of social cohesion.

Correct me if this is an inaccurate impression.

>>8669472
He's French.

>>8669479
He's French.

>>8669681
>the majority of French people go along with it because they find voting for the FN "distasteful"

Abbes wins because he's able to get the centrist parties onside, pushing his vote past the FN, which is the most popular party barring coalitions. His main policy is to Islamise the education system, ensuring he controls France's future, so he's more than happy to give other posts over to the Socialists/Republicans.

The main political theme of the book is to contrast Abbes' grand vision for a new Islamic Europe (often compared to the Roman Empire) with the petty small-mindedness of mainstream Western politicians.

>>8669323
>Your post is superior to mine,
what an autistic thing to say

>>8669472
Platform has the best sex scenes. Thai prostitutes, gangbangs, regular sex with his gf...

The plaftorm is the name of a company the hero and his gf create that provide sexual tourism.

Elementary particles is good too, there's a scene where the hero masturbates on the beach watching 14 years old girls.

>>8669305
>>8669279
Extremely good posts, thanks for writing it this way.

>>8669279

i wish houellebeck would be as much into nietzsche as he is into baudelaire... decadence is in the eye of the beholder.

>>8669305
It's been a while since I read this, but I remember there being more to Francois' weakness than his final conversion to Islam. I believe why Houellebecq has Francois submit isn't to call out Islam either, but doesn't the values of FN get shit on too? He'd just as likely submit to the Nazis' like a good Frenchman is what I remember thinking.

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It's not entirely anti-Islam, but if you've followed Houellebecq, you'd know he's basically a Christian monarchist who would vote FN (I'm thinking of The Elementary Particles, which seems his most overtly pro-Christian work).

If the book is anti-Islam, it's because Houellebecq is anti-Nietzsche (in his belief that Islam says 'yes to life') and Houellebecq is equating Muslims with Liberals. In other words, the protagonist converts so easily because Islam is an easy religion for lazy, liberal men, who just wanna fuck and be hedonist. The key being that we never see Francois change through his conversion. And he only converts out of convenience (it can get him multiple wives etc) and mild conformity. In an oblique way he's critiquing Nietzsche as being a Liberal-enabler...after all, doesn't Liberalism say 'yes to life?"

But with Huysmans "A rebours" the character is basically a complete hedonist who ends up, in the words of Leon Bloy, accepting either submission to the cross or a gun shot to the head.

So perhaps the submission that Islam brings isn't of a higher form of submission, like that in Christianity (Christ's submission to die on the cross etc) and that's Houellebecq's real position. And of course, the ease with which France accepts Islam means that the true submission happened a long time ago.

Which is why I think he's saying we're already 'Muslim' and it is Liberalism that was the real submission.

One thing you could argue, which isn't really in the book, is how Liberals will tolerate almost any catastrophe imposed by their politicians, in the same way that Muslims will tolerate almost any catastrophe imposed by other Muslims (suicide bombings and such, which don't really help Islam in any way) because everything is Allah's will. They haven't given up on Islam, just like Liberals haven't given up on Liberalism. But if he were to explicitly say that, it would end the ambiguity and then Houellebecq would really piss off Muslims.

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>>8670804
>Platform has the best sex scenes

This man knows.

>>8671096
>Houellebecq is equating Muslims with Liberals
In Soumission the Muslims clearly subvert the weak simpering liberal parties, take advantage of the unpalatable and uncompassionate nature of the modern right.

Good thread.

>>8669262
I've red it. It's good and is pretty red pilled.

>>8671120
Do they really subvert it? The leader just name-drops some Catholic-ish, social doctrine (distributism) and most people are less scared of Muslims than of the FN. Where's the subversion?

Liberals think Muslims are more Liberal than the FN.

>>8671170
Removal of women from govt jobs is pretty conservative. Enforcement of modesty laws also. And hints of Salafist Sharia laws at the end.

In Houellebecq's work its actually pretty standard and in continuity with his general critique of western culture. It's a good read though not exceptional.

>>8669331
I also compared polish version with the original and got to admit that in French it was slightly better, still I was not impressed. Didn't like the book anyway

>>8671186
Ah, yes, I guess you're right.

I still think Houellebecq is more Schopenhauer than Nietzsche, and closer to Christianity than Islam.

>>8671192
>>8669331
The flatness is Houellebecq's style in every book. It seems like a lack of style and kind of shitty, but I think he's just trying to find a style to communicate the realities of the 21st century Liberal man.

Can you shit post and jerk off all day and expect to be described in flowery prose? I think his style is a deliberate attempt to shock people out of Liberalism, but it probably just makes them put the book down.

But it wouldn't be wrong to say it's more about the ideas. And I don't think his ideas are unique to him, if you follow the discourse going on in France this past decade or so.

good thread

>>8669279
Fascinating I'm reading Houellebecq now thanks to this post