How should we deal with this problem?

A voting system weighted to give intellectuals more power?

>>8652777
That is what democracy mean, though.

>>8652793
I'm not so sure about that, though.

>>8652786
Communism?

>>8652804
How does communism fit that bill, friendo?

>>8652793
Democracy is a foreign word consisting of two undefined words used to describe something that is too complicated and "evolved" to describe with just the words "people" and "govern", etc.
It would be better if we called our political system for " huekkuuujshebbaddabyanna" instead.

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>>8652799

>>8652777
yeah that's right we should listen to people who have no idea how the human mind works

these are the people who when confronted with people who think the world is controlled by a sun god think "wow they're wrong i should teach them to believe in science instead"

Education.

One must be careful not to read Asimov's quote as "Knowledge pertains to me, you are ignorant, thefore be quiet and let me talk". And this is exactly what an anti-intellectual may hear from it, and some intellectuals as well, their egos swolen. Even though people have more knowledge or experience in this or that area, it is not that, by itself, that determines who has a voice in a conversation that is somewhat democratic. A dialogue has (at least) two active parts in it and even if you know very well what you are talking about, you don't know if the other knows you know it. And that person doesn't know you know it unless you deliberately speak of it by taking into account what the other may hear from it. The only way you know what the other is hearing in what you're saying, is hearing what that person says about what you say.

In other words, the problems works both ways. It's not a matter of ignorance or knowledge being good or bad. Ignorance must not be ignored, it is not exactly a natural inherent misery of that person, or some ill spirited demon affecting that person's judgement. If intellectuals paid more attention to what anti-intellectuals are talking about, if knowledgeable people were listening to the ignorant, without judgement, only then the knowledgeable person can acquire the tools necessary to access that other person with that knowledge and transform it into a possibility to end ignorance.

Otherwise, if you confuse "listening to it" with just "accepting it", if you think that listening to the ignorant means you're saying their opinion is good or that you accept it, then in your own speech you'll find this oppressive tone that the other must accept what you are saying because you know it. And the other person will reject it, because the person won't understand what you're saying.

The key is education and to think of what tools do we have to talk with each other and access each other's knowledges and ignorances alike.

There is no problem at all.

>>8652838
>Education meme
We've been following this idea for years, and now we have 90 IQ people with BAs in communications from state colleges that don't read for leisure trying to get into grad school. 40 years ago these people would have had good blue/grey collar jobs out of high school for greater pay.

>>8652777
i went too college i am so smart :)

Efforts should be made to bring the ignorant up to the intellectuals level i.e. invest in education

>>8652868
But that's not education, that's the market. Education is affected by problems of that sort on several levels. A person does not go to school to go to school, but to get a score, a diploma and a job opportunity, while the school does not want to teach, but to sustain itself financially. The end result is bad classes, higher prices, less valuable diplomas, cheaper teachers, an escallation of the whole thing and decline of quality. The way this system works inherently opposes education.

Not to mention education is not only about schools, but about television and internet, about politics, advertising, technology, art and culture. All of that is educating us to live in society in a given way. We must think of what kind of education do we want, what tools do we have to build it and to what end will it get us.

Knowledge doesn't exist, all people are ignorant while some are more ignorant of their ignorance.

And even if knowledge did exist, every intellectual would be ignorant of just as many things as the 'ignorant'.

Assigning a negative connotation to one while a positive connotation to the other is nothing but a mass hubris.

vanity of vanities etc.

>>8652943
>it's a teenager posts his moronic pothead ramblings on /lit/ episode

>>8652943
I'm not gonna listen to you cuz you don't know shit either

>>8652951
I'm 28 brother and I have never touched the fragrant green jew once in my life.

>>8652960
and yet you manage to sound like a teenage pothead

>jew
urgh

>>8652951
in what exactly is he wrong?. im really curious.

>>8652866
If you're not American

>>8652965
what parts do you think are right

>>8652980
> all people are ignorant
>every intellectual would be ignorant of just as many things as the 'ignorant'.

>>8653004
so you agree everything else he said is moronic right

>>8653009
so you agree this is not moronic?.

>>8653019
i'm just answering your question
>in what exactly is he wrong?
everything else he posted

the stuff you posted is disputable but not moronic

>>8652804
Geniocracy

Guess you'd be in one of the lower castes

>>8652868
>education is a meme now

Take a break and go to a park or something mate.

>>8652777
Replace "ignorance" with "knowledge" and he's dead on.

>>8653022
i think the other parts are the final and raw conclusions of the "disputable but not moronic" states that i put. so, basically, if you undertand that, you should not say it´s moronic at all.

>>8652929

You mean "education" as in "valuing intellectual pursuits and moral self-improvement" while the other anon takes it as "state sponsored education systems," I think. One being an internal, edifying motivation and the other being an external endeavor that is totally fruitless for the happy ignorant and willing ignoble.

>>8653050
>all people are ignorant so knowledge doesn't exist
you're even dumber than him

>>8653051
No, I don't mean education in that way at all. I mean an education that creates the opportunity of acquiring new languages, with the understanding that these languages allow them to negotiate with what's around them to greater flexibility. Whether it is about learning of how science works, or how it is that a painting is made, or how politics work, how to develop emotional maturity, how to acquire tools that solve my daily problems, how can I address a given situation, how can I deal with my difference to the other person, etc. It's not a moralist vision at all, not even restricted to intellectual pursuits, and definitely not separating internal to external things.

I'm saying that while anti-intellectuals do not know the language of the intellectuals, the intellectuals are also lacking of awareness of their position. That is, they are taking the ignorance of the other as something to be ignored, not allowing the ignorant to access the tools they have to understand their language. Education is about receiving this ignorance of the other not as a fault, but as a characteristic that you can work together with that person. There is knowledge in this ignorance, for both parts, because the closer you look at it, the more you'll find emotional, political, social, familiar barriers that could never be tackled if you don't acknowledge them. You'll also find the difference between each one of us in our ignorances.

>>8652963
>urgh
eh

Why do undergrads get so upset when their shtick is busted?

How can you stand being so inauthentic?
>>8653087
Knowledge doesn't exist because confirmation is impossible without presuming knowledge.

>knowledge exists because knowledge exists
is an invalid argument.

>>8653174
how can you know that it's an invalid argument if knowledge doesn't exist

>>8652916
But you can only spend so much money trying to teach gorillas calculus.

>>8653177
I don't, I'm working under a presumption to say that without making the same presumption as I am, there can be no confirmation.

>>8653192
so you don't know that knowledge doesn't exist

in fact you don't know if anything exists

so how about i say that i can't know that you're a moron but it's probable that you are

>>8653201
wow totally f^$kin epic /b/ro

By organizing intellectuals - academic and amateur - into aggressively pushing their values onto others. That is how all values are solidified: aggressive rhetorical force.

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In Englands green & pleasant Land

>>8653203
don't make me out to be the epik memester here

>>8652868
That's objectively false.

We spend way less in education than say, RnD for the military. Not the soldiers mind you, but RnD alone. I'm sure there's some infographic somewhere showing the amount spent here in the US versus other so-called first world countries.

Think of this: how many public middle/high schools have a basic critical thinking course? Not some wishy washy course about feelings, but a course on how to accurately measure information coming and have an outcome based in reality? Critical thinking is something to learn and teach, not an inherent trait some people have and others lack. It can be applied to every aspect of our lives, and yet we don't teach it until we're in college, and maybe not even then depending upon your major.

I think the problem with the US is that it's split between shameless worshippers of the intellectual class and shameless anti-intellectuals

you're either for or against it, with no reasonable position between

>>8653027
I can smell the smoke from here

>>8652777
And it's spreading over fucking Facebook. We have anti vaxxers and shit over the other side of the atlantic now thanks to you cunts

>>8653254
What were you reading from that post? He said sending dumb people to college is a bad idea, not necessarily that we need to spend less money on education. And how does education funding affect curriculum? You realize textbooks don't cost much and funding just goes into fancy computers for multimedia courses, right?

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>>8652916

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>>8652793
People rule.

>>8653526
I would love those scores to be graded on a curve.

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>>8652777

What problem?

The problem of stupid people who generally vote/act in their own interests, which is short-sighted and yet understandable; or the problem of 'smart' people (mostly dilettantes who subscribe to scientism and like Facebook pages such as 'I Fucking Love Science') who see themselves as lords and saviours of the Human race - besieged by the unwashed masses who "just don't get it"?

People like Asimov were part of the problem. Declaring 50%+ of Americans to be stupid/bigoted/racist/sexist dinosaurs for years on end is about as far as one can get from winning them to your cause - a lesson which is now being learned by the Democrats, for example.

>>8653692
This and only this. Thread's over.

>>8653254
How the fuck do you propose to teach "critical thinking" to the masses?

>>8652814
People in the intelligentsia have all the wealth and power, and outsiders have none.

>>8653692
t. deplorable

>>8653709
You're referring to dictatorship, not communism, although those things often go hand in hand.

>>8653709
I see you went to an American middle school.

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>>8653716

No. I just find it hilarious that after years of mocking 50%+ of the population on shows like Colbert/Oliver/Stewart/Maher/etc, never mind the political side of things, that people are so surprised that America is 'divided'.

>>8653719
Dictatorships have a single leader who can organize society however he likes. Communism reliably produces a nomenklatura to replace the bourgeoisie as the ruling class.

>>8653739
Dictatorship doesn't mean that the country is ruled by one single person. It means means the country is ruled by one political entity or social group e.g. people with 130+ IQ. Communism, on the other hand, is simply an ideology/movement bent on establishing a communist society. I'm sorry you find it so difficult to look up basic definitions.

>>8653796
I should rephrase that. Dictatorship doesn't necessarily mean that the country is ruled by one single person.

>>8653737
>get mocked for being intellectually, morally, and culturally inferior
>respond by embracing and indulging in your inferiority, rather than trying to rehabilitate yourself

>>8653796
>Dictatorship doesn't mean that the country is ruled by one single person
No, that is the precise, literal definition of a dictatorship. A government led by a dictator.

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>>8653842
>"You're on the wrong side of history!"
>"You're FUCKING WHITE MALE"
>"MY OPINIONS ARE OBJECTIVELY CORRECT!"

Gas yourself retard.

>>8653847
No, it's not. A government wherein a small group wields absolute power is also a dictatorship, you stupid cunt.

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>>8653842

>get mocked for being intellectually, morally, and culturally inferior
>respond by siding with the guy who doesn't mock you

One's easier than the other, anon. You should have known better than to think all those idiots wouldn't choose the easy option.

>>8653737
>after years of mocking 50%+ of the population on shows like Colbert/Oliver/Stewart/Maher/etc
Who gives a shit about those airheads? You've been getting shit on by people like Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, those are the real ones mocking you. Meanwhile after this election they'll go back to being buddies because while Trump says sexist and racist shit he's still one of the privileged elite.

The lower classes have the most power at the local levels of government yet they are actively discouraged from focusing on or participating in the political process unless it's cheer leading for the presidential candidates.

>>8653871
>respond by siding with the guy who mocks you without you being aware of it

Remove conservatives. Anyone that votes for Trump could be lined up and shot too.

P.S. before anyone attacks me I think Hillary is garbage too along with every other candidate. This election cycle was absolutely horrible.

>>8654857

The presidential garbage is all one big distraction from people that actually matter the most in the lives of the proletariat; governors, congress, local government, etc.

When's the last time anyone said anything about congress? You know, the entity that passes laws and stuff that has an effect on everyone? But no, it's the president's fault! He snuck that bill in underneath everyone's noses.

My grandma said that to me whilst saying Obama was sneaky. I asked her how you sneak something in when these bastards are supposed to be reading this stuff all the way through and making sure they know what they're voting on.

He's sneaky.

Just shoot me.

>>8654911
Federal congressmen, senators, and state governors are also mostly out of reach to individuals. State representatives, local municipal boards, and labor organization leadership committees are what the common person can actually affect. What people don't realize is that in 2010 Republicans not only took control of the house they also took control or gained significant power in most state legislatures.

This is something Democrats don't understand and gives Republicans, especially conservatives within either party, a huge advantage. The strategy for top down control of government is ineffective in the United States and is the main reason Barack Obama has seemed like such a failure, he failed to enact most of the changes he promised.

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>>8652827

>>8654911
Oh wow, pretty crafty of the illuminati (or whoever it is who has it out for you) to put the important people on the same ballot as the distractions.

Force intellectuals to actually do the work of the lower classes in their off-time. Academic life strips you of your ability to empathize with those outside of the academic sphere. they must be made to learn it again.

>>8655519

You are telling me you don't think the people in control want to stay in control? You really don't think this is all planned out and prepared?

Would you have been a peasant going "lol I don't believe in the monarchy they are not in control go back to your field lol"

Revert to republicanism or just abolish the government so that stupid people controlling intelligent people is no longer possible

>>8652777
who here /rulebyphilosopherkings/ master race?

>>8655528
Both the USSR and the PRC actually tried this. It didn't work.

>>8655661
Wouldn't surprise me. The types of people that become academics are likely those incapable of felling empathy at all. Their field of work only makes it worse.

there just needs to be a way to stop them from scoffing at the working class while being completely ignorant of what it feels like to be working class.

BLACKS BTFO

Didn't know Asimov was a white supremacist.

>>8655633
this is the answer