Notes from Underground; Dostoyevsky

>>8626867
Literally /r9k/ the book.

The main character is LITERALLY identical to those that frequent the /r9k/ board.

People who browse /r9k/ are LITERALLY the underground man.

They are exactly alike

File: 61gF-n5ZsxL.jpg (103KB, 758x1168px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 758x1168px

>>8626867
OP here, this is the translation i read

>>8626874
I know this is a meme but you would have to be absolutely incapable of critical thought if you think the underground man is reminiscent of r9k in any way past surface level.

>>8626891
Jug-pissing, labia-discussing ressentiment-fueled, anime-watching, 'vidya' game-playing socially inept virgins IS LITERALLY what the Underground Man is.

Only /r9k/ can truly understand this book

>>8626874
Theres a footnote on the first page from Dostoyevsky where he explains that though the undergound man is fictional, the likelyhood of his character existing is very possible "taking into consideration those circumstances in which our society was formed." So hes really a product of his times, an entire personality built on reactionary ideals. This sort of character is found in our time as you say because the zeitgeist is similar enough i think; existentialism and distrust being so much a theme of our times.

File: images.jpg (7KB, 256x192px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 256x192px

What was everyones take on the ending?

>>8627502
The underground man dies. It clearly is showing how unsustainable that mindset becomes. The book was a portrayal and a critique

>>8626901
No, it isn't. If you think a bunch of whiney autists who have extremely naive and sheltered worldviews (let alone the lack of ability to analyze it) is anything similar to the underground man past surface level I kindly ask you fuck off and never come back to this place.

>>8627506
/r9k/ is redpilled. 'Sheltered workdviews', you're simply brainwashed

>>8626867
(((Ginsberg)))

>>8626867
He demands perfection. He hates the world for being imperfect, and that includes himself, throughout the book he constantly starts shit talking somebody and then starts trying to "be objective" and applies his criticism to everybody including himself. That's a powerful thing to take away from the book imo.

He also hates being defined. He rejects any and every label that could be applied to him, which makes him indecisive and volatile. He refuses to be anything.

The last thought I had reading the book was that he thinks a big game but, possibly due to the above point, defaults to normal people ideals when forced to act. He tries to psych himself for things like bumping the police officer, but when he comes close to actually being able to do anything he wusses out and defaults to acting like a child, apologizes, catches himself, gets angry, psychs himself up again and continues.

I thought the causes were pretty simple: he spent far too much time reading books, and ultimately rejects the world for not being as good as them. He tries to imitate the way book characters speak to an almost Don Quixote level of ridiculousness.

Likewise, I think the girl coming back to his house is entirely his fabrication to close the story like a book. Everything from the way he acts (getting some, leaving the money, both speeches) to the way she acts, sounds like a fanfic of real life. He the cold realist, soft and understanding, yet at the same time cruel and defensive. The girl weak and weepy until his final act where she suddenly seems to hate him. It's too perfect.

File: impression-sunrise-claude-monet-1973.jpg (120KB, 976x800px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 976x800px

>>8627531
Not sure what this means or how it contributes to the discussion. If you're going to post you should develop your ideas to justify posting in the first place. If by this you mean the translation is bad then why don't you share insight on why you think that is? As for the subject at hand I can say that the translation I read was the one posted after the OP which youd of known if you cared to make actual input and read the thread.

>>8627584
So basically he's like /r9k/?

File: dfw amused.png (130KB, 270x314px) Image search: [Google]

130KB, 270x314px

>>8627593
now THIS is autism

File: pepe.jpg (14KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 400x400px

>>8627640
oh no you're just like the underground man

>>8627503
>dies
What? Are you meming?
Dosto literally writes that the notes continued but he thinks he should stop reproducing them there.

>>8627680
he was sick with some kind of hepatitis, he probably died sometime after the writing the notes

>>8627594
>robots
>reading books
But in all seriousness I think they bear shocking levels of similarity. Most notably the idea that they are so much more aware of reality than others, that everyone else is ignorant of the way the world really works and stupid in general, when the truth is they can't even keep up to the point of functioning in the real world. A complete lack of self-awareness and casting blame on society for their own shortcomings.

>>8627691
I mean, every character of every book dies some time after the action of the book. The underground man lived into his 40s at least. You can say the liver pain is meant to express something about his condition, sure, but his eventual death that doesn't happen in and isn't so much as hinted at over the course of the book? That's a serious stretch.

File: me.jpg (78KB, 615x663px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 615x663px

>>8627584
>Likewise, I think the girl coming back to his house is entirely his fabrication to close the story like a book. Everything from the way he acts (getting some, leaving the money, both speeches) to the way she acts, sounds like a fanfic of real life. He the cold realist, soft and understanding, yet at the same time cruel and defensive. The girl weak and weepy until his final act where she suddenly seems to hate him. It's too perfect.

Im not sure this is the case given what we know about his fantasies. He tells us that in his daydreams everyone loves him and he is some general or something or the other. If this is the case for the last part of the book I'd say he would have ended it more happily. However we know that he wants to write the notes because he wants to tell the truth to himself as he says
>Now, when I am not only recalling them, but have actually decided to write an account of them, I want to try the experiment
whether one can, even with oneself, be perfectly open and
not take fright at the whole truth. I will observe, in parenthesis,
that Heine says that a true autobiography is almost
an impossibility, and that man is bound to lie about himself.

If the case is he i not telling that truth I think we ought to consider why hes writing in the first place. An idea which comes to mind is the letter he wrote to the dinner party guests he embarrassed himself in front of and insulted, perhaps this is the text we are reading.

The most interesting aspect of the UM to me is his railing against the utilitarian philosophies of his day (man is an automaton programmed to seek pleasure and avoid pain) to the point where he purposely humiliates himself with obnoxious behavior. The dinner scene is a perfect example. Of course, the way he describes his 'friends' makes them come off as either pompous or boot-lickingly servile, but we hardly know if this is actually the case. My favorite scene in the book is when he is pacing around, sweating and drunkenly musing on his intellectual superiority while they carry on, having completely written him off. Funny stuff.

How many of you have known people like those he goes to dinner with?

>>8626867
I think Mira Ginsberg did the best translation for Notes from underground. I have Modern Libraries version and it's flat and bland compared to hers.

>>8626874
you are thinking of confederacy of dunces desu

>>8628125
Huge insult to ignatius.

>>8628134
he was /r9k/ incarnate, watching TV just to yell at muh degeneracy

I dont think a book has ever made me cringe like the party scenes.

>>8627710
Just because someone has shortcomings doesn't mean society isn't also to blame. I could just as easily say that someone is praising society because of their luck.

To quote the poet "You don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

>>8629826
Sorry meant for >>8627694

>>8626874
Kek

>>8629623
His portrayal of military men is spot on from my experience. That scene was cringy though.

File: Monet-_Der_Rosenweg_in_Giverny (1).jpg (4MB, 2826x2478px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 2826x2478px

>>8629826
Right I think the most important aspect of his character is that hes responding to the intellectualism of the time.

>>8627584
>He demands perfection.
He said he'd reject perfection. He doesn't know what he wants.

>>8627502
>>8627503
>>8627680
It means he kept on repeating the same patterns of behaviour for the rest of his life.

To me the underground man's main problem is coming to terms with his freedom, that's why Dosto says in the prologue he is a product of his time (post-enlightment breakdown of religious restrictions).He refuses to be defined by anything because accepting a certain self would mean sacrificing every other potential and so he goes back and forth on every issue. Even simple pleasures seem like limiting him to an automaton programmed to chase endorphines.

As a result he obsesses over every simple human interaction, trying to analyse what a certain look or gesture means for him. ("What sort of person is a person who is treated thus by another person" kind of thinking) and immediatly resisiting what he perceives as an identity imposed on him by others. This way he ends up trapped inside his head in a perpetual cycle of self-consciousness.

The only way out is love, to stop thinking about himself and focus on another human being. The girl at the end offers him almost unconditional love (loving him even after he insults her) but he refuses to surrender.It's safe to stop the notes there beacause the rest of his life will go on exactly as already demonstrated.

>>8626874
thanks for your valuable contribution.

>>8631828
Holy shit. I am the Underground Man.

We are all the Underground man, just that most of us are less outwardly expressive in our self-obsession (/r9k excluded of course) and tend not to act as impulsively on it.

>>8626867
you think like a normie

>>8631828
That's...really sad to say the least. I have to check this book out.

>>8629836
Have to disagree. I've met lots of soldiers who weren't swaggering dudebros. Marines, maybe. But as for Army i've encountered more nerdy types than anything else.

>>8634866
From my experience with ROTC army kids it's spot on for army as well.

>>8635121
ROTC is self selected subgroup. Hardly representative of even the officer corps.