Have you accepted that you will never be better than Kierkegaard?

>>8607139
Seducers Diary wasn't very good and I love Kierks.

I think Fear and Trembling is one of the most relavent books of our time. I have no idea why Islamic terrorists don't use the story of Abraham, probably because they're idiots, but it would be nice to see an intellectual side develop.

>>8607271
I second this. FaT is amazing

Muslims teleologically suspend the ethical all the time. Its called Taquiya and its very messed up

>>8607139
Is there a problem with that?

>>8607435
No problem at all, it's only natural that you'd spend your whole life trying to measure up to Kierkegaard when you'll never be half the man/person he was.

>>8607405
Taquiya can be coherently expressed and defended, so it isn't suspension of the ethical

>>8607139
Yes, of course I have. Kierks is my homeboy

I'll never even be better than any other random guy on the street.

>>8608319
You can't make a truly coherent statement about something as incoherent as Abrahamic Religion.

>>8608556
Abrahamics are the most coherent of all religions.

>>8608319
Could you elaborate? Maybe with a hypothetical?

>Wanting to be better than you are.
It's like you haven't read the Book of Job.

>>8608739
Take Agamemnon as an example of a knight of resignation. He sacrificed his daughter so wind would blow the Aegeans to Troy. All of his men understood that this was a horribly painful experience for him- it was an action that, in its dialogue, was rational and explicable, as fulfilling the duty of a king.

Now consider Abraham as a knight of faith. Abraham hears God tell him to travel three days to a mountain and sacrifice his son. Abraham has no justification. He cannot tell another person about it. Even if it were believed that he heard a voice, and it was really God's, that wouldn't change that Abraham is doing something immoral by murdering his child for fear of later reprisal. Standing up to God would be a noble action. But Abraham does not rationalize the commandment- he obeys. The ethical, rules and justifications for action, come from God and are enforced at a social and legal level. To short circuit this path to the divine, and, through intimate, passionate relation to God, follow God's will directly, rather than through conformity, that is to be a knight of faith. The ethical- reason, justification- is teleologically suspended to pursue a deep, inexplicable passion.

The knight of faith blends in with the rest of society, is indistinguishable even, because normally God wills routine, domestic kindness. However, in the case of Taquiya, or jihad, the ethical is not suspended- extremists believe that God exists and that they are making the world submit to him. They have theological debates on the matter and are rational assuming an unconventional belief system. Teleological suspension of the ethical is necessarily irrational, inexplicable, private. Abraham spoke to nobody, but got his son and rode North. He felt dread; the world was uncanny, he was sure his son would die, but he kept on, despite all reason. Not for good that would come, or fear of bad. This is why Abraham is the father of faith, and not the father of child murder.

Kierkegaard was an unread hack

>>8609540
That's because he wrote in Danish. He had a significant effect on Wittgenstein and particularly Heigegger.

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>>8607405
I'm actually writing a short story very much inspired by K's writings in that work. Would anyone care to give some critique towards it?

>>8609523
While I get how profound this absurd leap of faith is, it still feels, from the description, like being an obedient bitch. Imagine Abraham being psychotic. He hears a voice telling him to kill his son and he goes "fine, not gonna debate this within myself or with this God, I'll just have faith and do it". Obviously the story is more complex, in part because iirc Isaac was God's gift to Abraham or something of the sort, but I don't buy this "God knows best, humans know nothing" thing. I do appreciate the leap of faith on a bastardized, secular level as saying that you must enforce something normative by treating it as descriptive (you must play the piano in order to be a piano player despite not being a piano player and therefore cannot play the piano - at some point this requires faith in some sense).

Kierkegaard's version feels to me no better than the rational fanatic's one.

And yes, I know he writes it as Johnny Silence and not "himself", but that's too meta for me at the moment.

>>8609930
>God knows best, humans know nothing
You're still engaged in justification. Kierkegaard doesn't, and cannot, say it is better to be a knight of faith, because that would be an ethical justification and the concept would then no longer be suspension of the ethical. Kierkegaard is romanticizing going beyond rationality, and living in accordance with personal passion rather than external justification.

>>8609930
>I am very confused about wanting to bang a 14 yo
>writes book where main message is 'their are a genus of action you cannot reasonably justify'

Really makes you think.

>>8607139
What the fuck are you doing with my slut waifu you Prostestant hack

obviously

>>8607405
Dude, no.

a) twelver Shia ethics isn't originally Muslim but contrived due to the differences between them and Sunnis.


b) you just got schooled.

>>8609930
Obedient bitch?

Here's a belief found in every Abrahamic religion: God created man to worship him.

Theologically speaking, there has not been given any specific reason for creation, and I mean of the cosmos.
There is no scriptural evidence of a first cause existing.

So, according to Abrahamic religion, man was created to be an obedient bitch.
Also, the "God knows best and human knows nothing" was articulated really well by Socrates in his Apology.
Apply the socratic method to your daily life and see what you really know.

>>8609523
This is brilliant, to be honest.

>>8611619
I'm Catholic

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>>8612741
>Aquinas and the Magisterium cucked by Protestant qtboi

>>8614134
Are you bumping my thread because I posted your waifu?

>>8609523
>>8609930
>muh Divine Command theory

Abrahamics needs to disappear from this planet.

>>8608967
Kierkegaard also addresses that in The Sickness Unto Death

>>8614612
Kierkegaard does not argue that God exists, or that divine command theory is true. Rather, he attacks the possibility of individually meaningful, objective truth altogether, and explains why passion and inwardness is a means of living in truth as a mode, even if the object of passion is untruth. He gives reasons why people ought to have faith in God, not why God exists (he even considers the latter inquiry blasphemous because it entertains suspicion that God does not exist)

>>8614593
whats a waifu?

anyways, I might not be better than Kierkegaard but Ikuhara is

>>8614593
Since you used my reaction image in a curious context, yes.

>>8609930
>being an obedient bitch
Islam literally means "submission".

>>8615415
>my reaction image
What made it yours?

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>>8617785
Persistent use I guess? I'm just curious why you're using it.

>>8614929
>Kierkegaard/Ikuhara thread

this is a beautiful experience

>>8610138
>>8614853
Thanks for the conversations guys, it really helps. The way I think about it now, it sort of reminds me of Nietzsche since for him no amount of "theory" can get outside the will since it already is a will. Maybe this is why people often think Nietzsche and Kierkegaard together, aside from common terms such as "individual".

>>8609886
A lot of people here only like this kind of writing when it's done by established writers for some reason, but it's right up my alley. Can you give me some more info about the short story? What's it about, plot-wise and thematically?

I haven't read Kierkegaard for quite some time, so I can't comment much on the resemblance to Fear and Trembling, but the style is interesting if you can sustain it.

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>>8618328

Whats the best way to start with Nietzsche for a Kierkegaard fan? I have read Fear and Trembling, The Concept of Anxiety and The Sickness Unto Death.

>>8618451
You can just read the Gay Science

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>>8609886
Intense.
I like how you juxtapose the urine and the drink and warm dinners, suggesting their identity- or is that not intentional?

>>8617845
The anime woman looks sleek and beautiful, and her sideways glance can be taken as condescending

>>8618915
All true.
>purityfags

>>8620508
What do you want to discuss?

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>>8618361
Thanks anon. I'm very unsure of the style, actually. I feel like I have this quite luscious voice in my head, but my general inexperience as a writer makes me feel like it can hurt my scene a good deal too. I don't want to drop it however, and I know with a few more years (I'm very young) I might be able to make something good out of it.

Anyway, the story is inspired by a real event, where two Islamic terrorists decapitated a priest in a church. For me, I want it to be a more private thing, with a bit less of a relevance on which religion, but rather the nature of religion. The story is effectively the crisis of Abraham: what do you do when you feel commanded by a force that contravenes every piece of your ethical code? And, more importantly, does the secular, relativist west have a philosophical basis for denying that? It's going to end with this child breaking into a priest's rectory, but I want him to debate and talk with the man, whose actually rather agnostic towards God and deeply afraid of dying, and is drinking throughout their talk. At the end, I kind of want to portray this weird and lonely bond, and then Faizan, in a slight God to Jesus way, cutting his neck like a dog.
>>8618904
Thank you anon, I'm not sure what you mean by suggesting their identity- do you mean to link them all to attractive disgust? That is what I was coming for. But I certainly wanted to juxtapose and use scent in the scene

This is the second page, progress is slow, my sex life got weird again. Thank you both however.

>>8620893
Do you think a contemporary K would rather live in an Islamic, Asian or Western society?

>>8621996
Also, is there a French speaker who can tell me how wrong my attempts at it are?

>>8607139
who is this anime girl?

>>8621996
If you want, I'd be happy to read the full thing and offer a critique (the style is interesting enough and I like the idea)

You wouldn't have to take any of it on board but it might be helpful.

What would be the best way for you to send it if you decide to? Throwaway email accounts or some other means?

>>8607405
Man, Taqiyya only exists for Twelver Shia muslims, which is really just a small minority of all the muslims of the world. It's basically saying: "I am not shia!" because angry sunni's would murder them if they said so.

>>8609523
>>8609930
>>8612634
>>8614853
kudos for quality posts on /lit/. maybe 4chan can be saved after all

>>8621996
Nice. It does seem kind of weird that he can hear persons having sex though- it seems unlikely and takes me out of the moment.
I meant suggesting that the drink and warm dinners are, if not literally, then at least in some sense, the warm drink, viz. the urine.
>>8622013
Kozue Kaoru from Revolutionary Girl Utena.

>>8618328
>Maybe this is why people often think Nietzsche and Kierkegaard together, aside from common terms such as "individual".

They're basically two sides of the same coin. If you're a fan of one, you owe it to yourself to read the other.

Kierkegaard's criticisms of the Lutheran church are eerily similar to Nietzsche's criticisms of Christianity as a whole, despite the two having never met or read each other's work.

>>8621998
Definitely Asian.

Kierkegaard is really popular in Japan for some reason.

>>8622122
>
I blame Evangelion.

>>8622032
Yes. Give me an email you wouldn't mind posted on 4chan and I'll send it to you. I'm trying to get this finished by the 21st (doing about 500 words a day). Thank you very much for your interest anon, it's a real motivation.
>>8622097
Yes, perhaps the sex bit is a bit jarring, although I think it's because I move from actual sounds to very subtle, imagine ones, like "lipstick melting" and then switch again to gross images. I see what you mean with the urine thing, it's quite cyclical in a way, and I though like that reading, I might even enhance on that.

>>8622260
Alright man. Send it to illneverusethisagain62 at gmail dot com. It's a throwaway I've used a few times

Send a test email so I know it's coming through, then send the finished short story, and I'll try and get back to you as soon as I can.

>>8622122
Nips are intelligent and have good taste in European culture

>>8607139
Here's a question lads:

We all agree Soren was a based philosopher, unless we're being edgy faggots

But how many of us think his work is of merit, considered purely as literature? I mean, in the context of his pseudonymous project etc.

That's one thing that struck me reading Fear and Trembling, that it's literary element, his imagining himself into Abrahams position, giving multiple versions of his story etc., were pretty riveting, and had clearly been given more attention by the writer than was strictly necessary considering that it was a work of philosophy rather than literature.

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>>8607139

A man of the external at the obliteration of existence ( life at a distance god )

[pic related]

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>>8622123
I live in Japan and can confirm.

>>8623625
Read Repetition

>>8622012
your french is pretty weird

don't write in language you don't speak

what exactly are you trying to say?

Shit, your face is like sweet shit. Go home and explode? If so, still not correct, but this was what I got from it. Confused by the shit part. Why sweet?? Did you mean a different adj? Is the "explode" supposed to be a command -- "explode!" ?

I will rewrite please just tell me the english

>>8624242
I was planning on getting into more Kierkegaard soon, what is it about repetition that you think is particularly literary?

>>8624624
>/
Thanks anon. I was going for: "Your face is like honeyed shit...Go home and explode far away."

Honeyed, as in brown, and explode, as in a command.

>>8624918
Mainly some letters in it written by a romantic. First half is comedic. If you read it you'll know, and it's very short.

>>8607139
It's ok, i don't have the need to compete with him anyway

>>8625433
I'll make that my next Kierkegaard then. Thanks man.

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Is there some sort of flow chart for Kierkegaard? One of those charts that tells you the order to read him in?

>>8625639
Read Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit first, or his Wikipedia article. Then read
The Present Age-> Concluding Unscientific Postscript-> The Sickness Unto Death-> The Concept of Anxiety-> Fear and Trembling-> Repetition-> Either/Or

Hegel is a pain in the ass I know

>>8625708
Thank you family. I've already read Phenomenology so I'll start with the Present Age.

>>8625037
Sorry, I don't exactly understand the meaning of the phrase "honeyed shit". "Brown shit" ? "shit of honey" ? It's kind of funny because in french you can say honey instead of shit to be not offensive, but I don't think that is what you are trying to get across.

In the context I assume it's because he's basically supposed to be calling him a sandnigger, right? So "brown" is more the adjective you're looking for?

Sorry, I just don't want to write the wrong thing for you, since I was a little confused by your writing style and want to make sure I get the right idea across.

(Also he should not be addressing him as vous in the context but I will change that too)

>>8625954
Ah okay, "honeyed shit" would kind of have multiple conotations to an English speaker, as something that was sweet and the color of honey. It's probably not translatable like that though, please, just go for "shit" and leave out the honeyed part all together.

>>8626227
And thank you very much too.

>>8626227
>>8626229
Not a problem

"Putain!" is like a general exclamation of angry surprise

For your face looks like shit you could say: "t'as le visage de merde"

A better way to say fuck off is: "fous le camps" or to be less bad "va-t'en" which is more like get out of here

"Fais-toi exploser chez-toi" means go explode yourself at home

>>8607139
>mug purposefully unjustifiable irrationalism

>>8607139
Aren't you a lainon?

>>8627523
Why would you think that?

>>8627557
Aren't you going to ask me what a lainon is?

>>8627635
Lain anon, I already know.

>>8627646
Then there is no more question.

>>8627663
I should note that 1) I am not a Lainon except in referencing anischeralposter.
2) I am not OP, he took the usage of the image from me.

How can one man be so likeable? If a need a smile on my face, reading the last paragraph in the preface to The Concept of Anxiety is enough.

Why do y'all like Kierkegaard so much? You're not all Protestants are you?

>>8627523
No

>>8627985
You don't need to be a protestant or even a Christian to love Kierkegaard

>>8627991
Can you explain why, though?

>>8627998
He writes in an endearingly condescending, snarky, and ironic way. His ideas also hold up fairly well even to atheists. Kierkegaard continually emphasizes subjectivity, how objective, explicable rationality is impossible or irrelevant to human beings, and how humans as individuals need an establishing criterion outside of themselves. He does not argue that God obviously exists, he challenges people to take a leap of faith (which is not a leap over the abyss but into it). Kierkegaard doesn't offer Christianity as a comfortable retreat to nihilism or despair: he is deeply critical of organized Christianity, and emphasizes that cultivating inward, passionate faith and breaking the self relation is rare and difficult.

Also, he had a big impact on later philosophy, particularly Heidegger and the existentialists, so it's good to be a little familiar with him anyways.

I like this thread so I'll bump it