Book of the New Sun

>>8604222
You shouldn't be hooked to any novel and they shouldn't grab you.
You aren't reading it for a thrill.

>>8604223
t. faggot who doesn't enjoy literature

>>8604223
the single most pseud post I've ever read

>>8604223
pseud

>>8604236
t. faggot who reads for the plot

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>>8604223
absolutely correct

>>8604273
0/10
part of the art of trolling is not repeating the same memes again and again when your on the ropes. You have to come prepared with a character before hand, one fleshed out enough that you can deal with anything thrown at you.
Look to the query letter threads for good examples of literary trolling.
You, on the other hand, weren't even prepared for people pointing out the obvious.

>>8604222
I enjoyed the four volumes, but I didn't read them consecutively. I preferred reading one, and then reading something else, before beginning the next volume after a couple of weeks. I know it is supposed to be considered as a unity, but they were not originally published in that way. And I can see how Wolfe's very dense writing can overload a person's appetite, like eating too much granola.

>>8604222

I am exactly the same spot as you. Except I am liking it very much. I too am not incredibly interested in fantasy but what I think interests me about the story is the feudal future. The idea that its so far into the future that lost futuristic technology is glanced over as magic and we see everything through Severians eyes. What hooked me was the moment early in book one when he sees a painting of an astronaut but he describes it as a suit of armor and no eye holes. His cultural identity as a torturer I like too he sees the world differently than most and speaks of many things we do not know or could understand.

>>8604330
Wolfe is a master at characterisation, he always has a character fit the setting perfectly. He is almost at his best in the New Sun, but the Short Sun had me jawdropping at how good it was while being incredibly subtle.

Severian's musings are largely thomistic, he even quotes Aquinas almost directly a few times, he does a great job at presenting the, to the modern reader, strange philosphy in a very specific way where the plot is essentially a manifestation of that worldview, he provoked an interest in it in me.

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>>8604222
>tell me what i should like: the post

stop trying to fit in. like what you want to like

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>read the whole thing
>didn't like it that much
>"ah my boy but there are so many layers! symbolism! multiple layers and religious symbolism!
>tfw still not enjoying it
i mean i'm not a super retard or anything, i don't want everything to be spelled out for me. but these books weren't that fun to read

>>8604222

drop it I guess

>>8604222
I wasn't hooked either but the first books got better in retrospect for me. I think the third was my favorite.

>>8604222
just keep saying to yourself "its #27 on /lit/'s top 100 chart" while reading for the motivation

>>8604222
The use of language is what has me hooked - I'm about as far as you are, but I've found myself enjoying it immensely. He uses the characteristics of the memoir to evoke themes not with dense passages but within the wills and words of the presented characters. The scope is also not extraordinarily grand thusfar, and I really respect that as well. I imagine things become larger than life somewhere along the line, but I like that for now Severian has wound up where he is at the end of shadow of the torturer largely by chance - this too reflects what seems to be a theme, that fate and chance are really bound, but the book hasn't gone on any offensively lengthy dumps of exposition that expound this perspective.

So, I've just come back to my thread and I'll say that I am still reading it.

I'm not sure I buy that Severian is a great character. He seems pretty self-inserty if you ask me (bookish academic coming out of his shell to learn his own abilities). There's also quite a large dose of power fantasy so far as well, but I'm not going to harp on that too much because I know that: 1. It's a genre trope. 2. Wolfe actually subverts some of those tropes pretty effectively (ie the love interest tries to kill him, every time he seems to be about to get involved in some grand plot it turns out someone is just trying to steal his sword.)

I'm sticking with it for now though.

>>8606196

his sword is da shit

>>8606196
yeah, like. it would be fatuous to try to defend the work based on a partial reading of it - it's something that has to be taken as a totality - so i don't think i can really engage with the issues you present here.

but what i can say is that Wolfe is a writer who is deeply concerned with issues of identity and being and memory, and that those concerns are intensely and thoroughly present in Book of the New Sun

i see some slimey croat here

>>8606248
awww Pinky's cool :(

>>8606196
Aside from slaying pussy Severian doesn't really do much to warrant envy.

What I really like about Wolfe's writing, and New Sun in particular, is his approach to storytelling. Stories mean more to Severian and Wolfe than just words on paper to pass time. Stories are always a major element of Wolfe's work and his use of stories within stories gives me a better appreciation for how much they can effect our culture, ideas and ways of thinking.

I don't think I've found any author who can convey the idea of somebody who truly thinks differently to what we know better than Wolfe.

Is this the first time you've tried reading Wolfe? I personally always recommend reading The Fifth Head of Cerberus and Peace before New Sun but they're not exactly essential. I think that they serve as a better introduction to his style.

>>8606488
I don't find his style difficult. In fact I've had no problems at all reading it.

I heard some peoplesay they needed to look up words constantly but it's seriously not difficult to read. The only book I ever had to do that with was Spectres of Marx by Derrida and that was back in high school.

>>8606852
He isn't talking about looking up words. He's talking about the self referencing nature of the work where the smallest detail from the first novel unlocks the meaning of the third for example and likewise how deeply invested Wolfe is in the perspective of his characters, his novels, or rather the stories told are contained absolutely in the perception of one person and his biases, memories, self deceptions, lack of self criticism and so on.

One of the main themes of The Book of the New Sun is the relationship between this limitation of self and the objective, eternal order and of course God.

I just got to Vodalus's court and the book is a lot more interesting. I also like the way it points out the sheer number of false/competing quests that Severian has been given and how that subverts the usual hero's journey.

I read BotNS back in high school without knowing its or Wolfe's reputation. I think I missed almost all of the "layers" and subtlety beyond the bizarro-futurism. But I do remember the entire way through being constantly awed and intrigued by something I couldn't quite put my finger on. Similar to the feeling of having a word or name on the tip of your tongue but not being able to remember it combined with an almost paranoid sense of importance, like you're on some kind of mission from G-d the purpose of which is still unknown.

Now I see all this stuff about philosophy and Thomism which I know nothing about and I wonder how much I missed. What do I need to know in order to understand?

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>>8608044

>G-d

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>>8608055
>44
>55

i am unironically jewish but i only wrote that for the (You)s

>>8608044
Severian explains Aquinas really well desu. You will understand it largely by feeling, because the plot strives to emulate that.
How to actually put your finger on it and get the philosophy like you would for Plato or Kant? Read Feser, MacIntyre, Copleston and then Aquinas himself. Jumping into Aquinas without preparing will result in massive misunderstanding.

>>8608090

What would you recommend from each of these writers?

>>8608132
History of Philosophy, Volume I and II by Copleston
God, Philosophy, Universities, After Virtue and Whose Justice Which Rationality by MacIntyre
Aquinas, Last Superstition by Feser

Leave After Virtue and Whose Justice Which Rationality for last, they are really far more specific than the other works.