Kafka general

A lot less homoerotic than expected.

>>8602755

Why would you expect homoeroticism?

>>8603072
Fuck you

>>8602755
>"As Gregor Samsa awoke one morning from uneasy dreams he found himself transformed into a gigantic homoerotic prisoner gang rape.”
Holy...I want more.

Good thread

Read Butler commentaries on it. Or Deleuze/Guattari's. Or Preciado's.

One of the most magical and interesting short histories ever

o

Last Kafka thread was good, maybe this one can be salvaged.

Just finished The Castle, what's everyone's take on it? I found it harder to make sense of than The Trial, and it leaves me scratching my head. Is it about how we try to derive meaning from things like religion (the castle)? Is K. unfree because he constantly seeks to have his existence validated by something outside of himself (the castle)? Did anyone write anything worthwhile on the book?

Reading The Trial right now and I'm finding it a bit dull. I love the surreal scenes and how vividly Kafka portrays things like K's meeting with the painter, the children yelling outside, how he becomes convinced to buy several ugly paintings and leaves through an oddly placed door but then Kafka goes on some ten page rant about lawyers and court stuff and I'd rather be reading the shampoo bottle again

Also what are your interpretations of it? Is it about lack of free will? How we, despite knowing what's best for us and what we want, quickly forget about these things for momentary gainings?

>>8603561
It's about the fact that authority is constructed. Josef K. is society and the court is the legal system, only through his cooperation do they actually have power, he could leave at any point, but he doesn't. He just takes the authority of the court for granted, even though it's a separate entity from the real legal system.

That's my take on it anyway.

>>8603488
>>8603561
>>8603578
I think if you didn't enjoy the actual dreamlike experience of reading the book itself, you can't be helped. Sure, there's many different interpretations of them, some better than others, but Kafka seemed to have written his works subconsciously, he just let his pen fly free and write what was on his mind, the works are amazing for the neurotic and genius mind and great stylist they came from. The physical manuscripts of his works bear remarkably little corrections (like Shakespeare's, supposedly). Don't forget the fact that the books are actually funny (inb4 that terrible DFW article), like the scene where the judge who's sick of everyone's shit keeps throwing lawyers down the stairs and they just have to keep trying to come up to his room made me laugh harder than anything else in a long time before that. And then on the other hand, I think the scene were Josef K. is at the church in the end is one of the most powerful in all of literature, preternatural, Kafka is an incredibly dark comedian, sometimes his comedy is so dark it becomes something else altogether, which is why we came up with that word "Kafkaesque"...

>>8603592
I don't know why you responded to all of these replies together, my attempt at interpretation doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the work. Also I don't think Kafka shows off his talent as a stylist in his novels, he keeps that in his short stories for the most part. Did you enjoy reading The Castle throughout? The endless conversations that circle around nothing in particular help create the dreamlike experience you mention, but it can be tiresome.

>>8603592
Why do you think DFWs article is shit? It seemed pretty spot on to me and you seem to basically be saying the same thing as him.

>>8603592
>I think the scene were Josef K. is at the church in the end
Huh? My version ended in a conversation with some lady. What happens exactly?

>>8604160
Are you sure you aren't thinking of The Castle?

It's my first time reading him and I'm reading metamorphosis. I'm lightly entranced with the idea of being an insect.

>>8604175
Ah holy shit, wasn't paying attention. Thanks for the clarification. Yes, that part was amazing. The Trial is imo the greatest novel I have ever read.

>>8602746
A lot funnier than expected.

>>8603488
The Castle is about authority and inaccessibility, mostly in ideology.

>>8604184
the first time i read through the metamorhposis i thought he wasnt an insect but instead was an insane man. only later on when it gets confirmed that he's also changed by form i believed it. had to immediately reread again.

>>8604382
I just finished it and I want to die???

>>8604475
Holy fuck someone please tell me what this book means? I just feel depressed now.

>>8603463
What D/G book has commentary on that story? I'd love to read it.

>>8604508
The bug symbolizes Kafka saying "just BEE yourself man don't BUGGER out"

>>8603592
>Kafka seemed to have written his works subconsciously, he just let his pen fly free and write what was on his mind
complete rubbish. Kafka was very self-conscious and precise. Sure there is an influence from the unconscious, but this is definitily not true.

>>8604767
I'm willing to argue with you on it, but Kafka claims, for instance, that he wrote The Judgment in one sitting overnight totally spontaneously, and there's also the biographical tidbit that the original manuscripts of his works aren't heavily edited or revised by himself, there's many pristine pages practically uncorrected that got directly published as they were without much markings on them.

Finally, the surrealness of his stories itself is testament to how he wasn't rationally deliberating everything, I find it psychologically similar to the phenomenon of automatic writing. I don't view this as a degradation of his work, I think it's testament to his genius, also I agree with your finely chosen adjectives of "self-conscious" and "precise" despite all this.

To arbitrarily take another Jewish writer (who I happen to not even like that much), Philip Roth is someone who claims he obsessively rewrites his manuscripts and takes a long time to write novels, often obliterating a hundred pages at a time and putting the best of a years worth of writing together and making a novel out of that, for instance, if my memory of an interview of his I read goes correctly. Clearly very different from Kafka's writing.

File: kafka_manuscript.jpg (463KB, 2406x2991px) Image search: [Google]

463KB, 2406x2991px

>>8604767
>>8604789
http://www.kafka.org/index.php?manuscripts

>>8604252
>mostly in ideology
Can you elaborate, I don't know what you mean.

>>8604252
Sorry, not ideology, I mean theology. Dealing with authority in religion.

>>8604818
>>8604812

>>8604820
I see. Well the post you responded to originally is actually my interpretation of the novel. Just imagine it as statements instead of questions.

>>8604789
Even if this process can be assumed, which I think you're cherrypicking somewhat, I don't think it proves anything about his very deliberate ambitions, which are recorded in some of his remarks, about style and substance of his work.

>>8604508
It's been a long time since I read it, but I'll give it a shot. More knowledgable anons please correct me.

I interpret it as illustrating the absurdity of believing you have to play specific roles, similar to Sartre's bad faith. Gregor feels compelled to sacrifice his own happiness in order to support his shitty family, that this is who he has to be. When he is thrown in to a situation that is equally as absurd, becoming a giant cockroach, he still cannot give up what he feels to be his true nature. Despite recognizing his insect urges, he and his family are revolted by his physicality, similar to the main character in Nausea reacting to his own body. By the end it turns out Gregor's family is better off without him, revealing he never had to play the role he gave up so much for.

I take this to be both depressing and freeing depending on how you look at it.